Angus x British Fresian Heifers

hellenmic

Hi all,
I have 6 Angus x British Fresian heifers that I'm going to breed next month. . I'm looking to use a maternal index bull.on the them as I will be looking for replacements.. I'm thinking using a beef shorthorn and Angus on them.
What would be the best cross ??
Any views on the above ?

Genghis Cant

Easy calving Lim. Bring a bit of muscle and style to the mix. Should bring decent bull calves and decent heifers to breed up from if you wanted.

Greengrass1

Just wondering why are you breeding them.this late?

Tyson Lannister

I use easy calving PT (S1363 2.9% difficulty) on AAxBRFR to get lovely breeding heifers. Terminal CH (MZT) after that for great calves, haven't had a mousey coloured one yet, all white. Those PT straws are very expensive though.

Bullocks

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Just wondering why are you breeding them.this late?

Might give them a chance after calving to go out to autumn calves next time around

blue5000

How big are they? The trouble with using easy calving Lim is that those daughters might be too narrow to make good calving cows themselves. What are the heifers by?

Aubrac are an easy calving continental breed, have been using them on angus x heifers the last few years, only ones that needed assistance were aa heifers out of blue cows. I think the double muscle gene must have kicked in.

hellenmic

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Just wondering why are you breeding them.this late?

I am working full time and i have cameras in my slatted sheds. I use the cameras for catching them going in heat. Once i see the animal going in heat i zoom in to the ear tag and i ask the neighbour to drive her into the crush for AI.
Its a system that works out great from me.

hellenmic

blue5000 wrote: »

How big are they? The trouble with using easy calving Lim is that those daughters might be too narrow to make good calving cows themselves. What are the heifers by?

Aubrac are an easy calving continental breed, have been using them on angus x heifers the last few years, only ones that needed assistance were aa heifers out of blue cows. I think the double muscle gene must have kicked in.

They are average 405 kg and they will be 2 years old next apri/may.
They are nice tall heifers and for angus x br fr they are handy enough when it comes to width.... no too wide but not too narrow either.

Ya i was thinking about using Aubrac on them alright.... i like the Aubrac. Nice quite cattle and they do make lovely mothers.
I find it hard to find a good maternal Limousin Bull... the best my AI company have is FTY.
HCA not available anymore and i dont want to use OZS due to his calving difficulty figures.
I would like to keep the calving difficulty under 5%

hellenmic

Tyson Lannister wrote: »

I use easy calving PT (S1363 2.9% difficulty) on AAxBRFR to get lovely breeding heifers. Terminal CH (MZT) after that for great calves, haven't had a mousey coloured one yet, all white. Those PT straws are very expensive though.

S1363 has very low maternal figures. I would be looking to use a bull with high maternal figures as i would like to produce top replacements

hellenmic

blue5000 wrote: »

How big are they? The trouble with using easy calving Lim is that those daughters might be too narrow to make good calving cows themselves. What are the heifers by?

Aubrac are an easy calving continental breed, have been using them on angus x heifers the last few years, only ones that needed assistance were aa heifers out of blue cows. I think the double muscle gene must have kicked in.

Would you have any pics of the Aubrac x Angus heifers by any chance Blue5000 ??

Tyson Lannister

hellenmic wrote: »

S1363 has very low maternal figures. I would be looking to use a bull with high maternal figures as i would like to produce top replacements

Had an idea in my head he was 4 star for replacement, might be wrong

Bellview

Genghis Cant wrote: »

Easy calving Lim. Bring a bit of muscle and style to the mix. Should bring decent bull calves and decent heifers to breed up from if you wanted.

why easy calving Limo... looking over the fence at castleisland mart this year the easy calving Limo's were struggling to make 100 euro (granted these were out of dairy)

if going Limo go with a bull that will breed something as some of the easy calving Limo's are breeding poor cattle.

Bellview

hellenmic wrote: »

I am working full time and i have cameras in my slatted sheds. I use the cameras for catching them going in heat. Once i see the animal going in heat i zoom in to the ear tag and i ask the neighbour to drive her into the crush for AI.
Its a system that works out great from me.

like your system.. something I will need to look at myself

As BRX you will have super dams for any cross. Since you are working I understand why you want them out easy as you won't have time for 'trouble'

An angus bull worth looking at is Cahirmee Gino, what I have seen so far there is some nice size in them. Another to consider who is easy calver is TLZ from Dovea. I use a son of his as stock bull and he is breeding super angus cattle.. with very decent weight gains without being puhed

welton john

Bellview wrote: »

why easy calving Limo... looking over the fence at castleisland mart this year the easy calving Limo's were struggling to make 100 euro (granted these were out of dairy)

if going Limo go with a bull that will breed something as some of the easy calving Limo's are breeding poor cattle.

Are you sure they weren't jerseys? Been to same mart a lot this year and you wouldn't buy the tail of a lim x calf for 100 .

welton john

Tyson Lannister wrote: »

Had an idea in my head he was 4 star for replacement, might be wrong

Your right there, have you any calves off him? Was going to splash out on two straws for a few heifers.

Bellview

welton john wrote: »

Are you sure they weren't jerseys? Been to same mart a lot this year and you wouldn't buy the tail of a lim x calf for 100 .

certain they were Limo easy calving as I know the farmer who was selling them.. I also know a guy who buys a lot of calves in Kilmallock and he would touch the 'weak' limo's that the easy calving have delivered to the Limo breed

there is a test in Teagasc at present where they are using the easy calving Limo, HE & Angus. the cows are all due to calve next spring so it will be interesting to see the gestation period of the easy Limo's and how they perform during the test...saying that one of the Angus bulls used is a potential cow killer as he is a son of Bosullow elmark... won't do the breed any favours but not sure why he was even selected for the program...

Bellview

Tyson Lannister wrote: »

Had an idea in my head he was 4 star for replacement, might be wrong

the BR will push milk into them so most likely any daughters of these heifers will have loads of stars

welton john

Bellview wrote: »

certain they were Limo easy calving as I know the farmer who was selling them.. I also know a guy who buys a lot of calves in Kilmallock and he would touch the 'weak' limo's that the easy calving have delivered to the Limo breed

there is a test in Teagasc at present where they are using the easy calving Limo, HE & Angus. the cows are all due to calve next spring so it will be interesting to see the gestation period of the easy Limo's and how they perform during the test...saying that one of the Angus bulls used is a potential cow killer as he is a son of Bosullow elmark... won't do the breed any favours but not sure why he was even selected for the program...

We use a good bit of limos on the dairy herd and in general find them very easy. gamin in bova is great for early shape.good lim bulls easily made £50 more than their he and bb herd mates we sold this spring.best aa calves we have this year are both by rgz.

White Clover

Imo the best easy calving limo bull over the last 10 years was Pontium (PTI) from bova. Not sure if he's still available. Easily calved and very shapey calves.

Genghis Cant

Bellview wrote: »

why easy calving Limo... if going Limo go with a bull that will breed something as some of the easy calving Limo's are breeding poor cattle.

As they're heifers I'd be goin easy on them. Dubai is easy calved and breeds well for us. The likes of Suc au May again is very easy calved but breeds ordinary stock.
Certainly go for a bull that breeds decent stock. All easy calved bulls are not equal.

Miname

Go with a good limo and you'll have a nice replacement. You'll have plenty of milk anyways so I wouldn't be too worried about going all out maternal. With aubrac you could end up with a butty animal.

bogman_bass

Tyson Lannister wrote: »

Had an idea in my head he was 4 star for replacement, might be wrong

he is

atlantic mist

we used kzp (hereford), EBY (lim) on a bf herd last year on cows we didnt want replacements of certain cows.
both easy calving some shape on the lim and they were easier HE as they seem to have bigger heads, we gave them plenty of oats prior to calving,
we thou they were smashing calves, had the angus going back a few years and the calves werejust stone mad, all the angus seem longer in length these days does this create any difficulty calving

Bellview

atlantic mist wrote: »

we used kzp (hereford), EBY (lim) on a bf herd last year on cows we didnt want replacements of certain cows.
both easy calving some shape on the lim and they were easier HE as they seem to have bigger heads, we gave them plenty of oats prior to calving,
we thou they were smashing calves, had the angus going back a few years and the calves werejust stone mad, all the angus seem longer in length these days does this create any difficulty calving

There are some Angus breeders that are using the bigger scotish bloodlines that are tough calvers.. For some reason the ai stations have bought a number of these and ironically icbf are rating them 5 star.. When Looking at Angus any bulls with nether ton, nightingale, bosullow, Rawburn to name a few in the bloodline is generally tough calvers. .. Luckily a lot of breeders stay away from these lines except the guy s that want to win at shows..

blue5000

Bellview wrote: »

There are some Angus breeders that are using the bigger scotish bloodlines that are tough calvers.. For some reason the ai stations have bought a number of these and ironically icbf are rating them 5 star.. When Looking at Angus any bulls with nether ton, nightingale, bosullow, Rawburn to name a few in the bloodline is generally tough calvers. .. Luckily a lot of breeders stay away from these lines except the guy s that want to win at shows..

Yeah maybe on holstein heifers, OP wants to breed a few decent suckler cows that are able to calve by themselves when he's off working. The bigger canadian/scottish bulls might suit the OP. I know you need to breed easy calving bulls, because that's where your market is, with dairy farmers.

bogman_bass

maybe go angus again? GJB is breading serious comercial stock

tanko

bogman_bass wrote: »

maybe go angus again? GJB is breading serious comercial stock

The beef guru on the PG stand at Tullamore reckoned that FPI would be a better bull to breed suckler cows than GJB. Would you agree?

manjou

Miname wrote: »

Go with a good limo and you'll have a nice replacement. You'll have plenty of milk anyways so I wouldn't be too worried about going all out maternal. With aubrac you could end up with a butty animal.

The aubracs have short legs alright but have found that they weigh better than limos and are more shapely and are easier fed.They also sell well as bull fineshers like them.

manjou

Bellview wrote: »

There are some Angus breeders that are using the bigger scotish bloodlines that are tough calvers.. For some reason the ai stations have bought a number of these and ironically icbf are rating them 5 star.. When Looking at Angus any bulls with nether ton, nightingale, bosullow, Rawburn to name a few in the bloodline is generally tough calvers. .. Luckily a lot of breeders stay away from these lines except the guy s that want to win at shows..

Using these bloodlines on sucklers and getting great results no problems so far but wouldent let them anywhere near dairy cows.Will know about rawburn genitics next spring as new bull has rawburn genitics in him.

Bellview

tanko wrote: »

The beef guru on the PG stand at Tullamore reckoned that FPI would be a better bull to breed suckler cows than GJB. Would you agree?

hope its not the same guru that has recommended Goulding Eamon (maternal bull) get used in dairy cows in for test being managed by Teagasc & ABP... calving difficulty of close to 10% and rising. the objective of the program is beef from dairy herd through easy calving bulls... they have picked one of the hardest calving bulls ever reared in Ireland for the test

Over the past 5 years Dovea have had a better selection of Angus whether its across bulls for Dairy or Beef.

Bellview

blue5000 wrote: »

Yeah maybe on holstein heifers, OP wants to breed a few decent suckler cows that are able to calve by themselves when he's off working. The bigger canadian/scottish bulls might suit the OP. I know you need to breed easy calving bulls, because that's where your market is, with dairy farmers.

but Op has also asked that the bull is relatively easy calving. I would stay away from the Portauns of the world... but bulls with the like of Bosullow Elmark are rating at 12% calving difficulty, that level is up there with Charolais level difficulty.

there are plenty of bloodlines around that can avoid that level of difficulty

picking bulls like Cahirmee Gino would give a good calf without gambling too much on the first calving

bogman_bass

tanko wrote: »

The beef guru on the PG stand at Tullamore reckoned that FPI would be a better bull to breed suckler cows than GJB. Would you agree?

Possibly, I haven't seen any heifers from FPI but half your calves will be bulls and GJB is a better bull on that front IMO and is still going to be decent maternally

tanko

Bellview wrote: »

hope its not the same guru that has recommended Goulding Eamon (maternal bull) get used in dairy cows in for test being managed by Teagasc & ABP... calving difficulty of close to 10% and rising. the objective of the program is beef from dairy herd through easy calving bulls... they have picked one of the hardest calving bulls ever reared in Ireland for the test

Over the past 5 years Dovea have had a better selection of Angus whether its across bulls for Dairy or Beef.

Ah, calling him a guru was tongue in cheek. Sometimes he's very right and sometimes he's very wrong.

wiggy123

FPI is producing well