Motor Insurance to go up again after court ruling

micosoft

So the High Court has found that all insurers have to cover the cost of insurers that go bust through the Motor Bureau. This means the €90 million loss from Setanta is essentially being put on everyone elses insurance. I have to agree with the Insurers here. Going by the sums this alone means €40 extra next year + the €30 we already pay for the people who don't pay their insurance. And encourages more Ponzi like Setanta insurance operators based from Cyprus or what every poorly regulated country in the EU.

My thought for a long term solution is to get rid of the motor insurance bureau and that we charge 3rd party personal injury insurance through the petrol pump (whatever cents extra) to prevent the mass evasion of insurance. Note this is just personal injury (the really high costs that an individual could never afford) - the cost of damage to another persons car is still borne by the uninsured who can personally pay for it and probably could in 99% of cases.
It has the advantage of charging by number of KM traveled as well, a much fairer system. It must be 60,000 people at an average of €500 avoiding paying. If you want third party, fire, theft or comprehensive you can pay an insurer for that but in effect everyone is insured.

kupus

But but but capitalism, insurers, more discounts, court rulings, women insurance gets the feminist treatment means insurance comes down,

It's all a load of bollix

listermint

Sick of this nonsense. Pmpa quinn now this. And the increases never appear to disappear.

It's ridiculous

Special Circumstances

micosoft wrote: »

My thought for a long term solution is to get rid of the motor insurance bureau and that we charge 3rd party personal injury insurance through the petrol pump (whatever cents extra) to prevent the mass evasion of insurance.

I'd make it general third party, rather than just personal injury. We would still be just financing certain cash-for-crash scammers without some changes to how things are handed out. The other worry is that whatever quango would administer this would be another Irish Water farce
The question of how many road vehicles are run on washed or unwashed marked diesel would also have to be resolved for this to be fair.

Guy:Incognito

micosoft wrote: »

Note this is just personal injury (the really high costs that an individual could never afford) - the cost of damage to another persons car is still borne by the uninsured who can personally pay for it and probably could in 99% of cases..

and what happens when someone without pot to piss in writes off your brand new 60 grand BMW?

As well as that , every petrol station within a few miles of the border may shut up shop straight away too and save themselves the heartache of going bust.

To Elland Back

Shocking that the High Court have made this decision. The Insurance Compensation Fund (the Govt Levies on all our policies) should have been made pick up the tab. Instead the MIBI will require more funds from policyholders, while the tax already taken from us remains untouched

Setanta policyholders (and I have every sympathy for them) were NOT uninsured, there were just no funds to meet their obligations. How, therefore, can it be a MIBI issue and not a Government/Regulation/Licencing problem?

jimgoose

To Elland Back wrote: »

...How, therefore, can it be a MIBI issue and not a Government/Regulation/Licencing problem?

That is my very question!

K.Flyer

Because the Gov will want to to side step the problem and make the people pay for their lax attitudes towards regulation enforcement, as per usual.

punisher5112

There is some money on setanta side because I received a letter from setanta receivers stating they can fund some monies.

Not a bad result from something I thought I wouldn't get a cent from.

You would swear they don't want anyone to have a car and if people didn't the country would collapse.

Liam McPoyle

I had a CPD lecture in work during the week with a director from the MIBI and this topic came up. At the time he had no idea what way the court ruling would go, obviously this is the worst possible result.

He gave some examples of current open claims that are going through the MIBI.

One of them involved 2 guys, high on illegal substances going on a driving spree. Over the course of the day they were involved in 3 accidents, the third of which ensued when an argument broke out between the driver and the passenger, the passenger grabbed the steering wheel and they ended up hitting a cyclist, the cyclist suffered horrendous injuries and there is a reserve of €2.6 million on it.

Another involved a driver who after a house party decided to go for a drive with some of his friends. They rounded a bend on the wrong side of the road and collided head on with a car travelling the opposite direction. Reserve on that is €1.4 million.

There is also a ruling currently going through the EU courts about a case where an individual driving a tractor in Luxembourg was reversing on private property and tipped a ladder that had someone on it, knocking them off and injuring them. The insurance company argued that it was not their responsibility to pay as the vehicle was not been used for what it was insured for ie as a working vehicle. The court contended that as the vehicle was moving, even though it was on private property, and was not "working", it was still the insurers responsibility to absorb the liability. The implication of this is that everyone that has been involved in accidents where they were not using their vehicle within the specifics of the policy, could still claim from their insurers. A simple way of looking at it would be if someone was using their car for off road driving that if they damaged it or crashed it while doing this that the insurer could be essentially liable because even though their insurance might exclude non SD&P use, the vehicle, for all intents and purposes could be used for off road driving so the insurer is liable.

Its nonsense but could have massive implications and result in people making claims for incidents that occurred up to 5 or 6 years ago.

Greenmachine

Crazy situation where car owner are already being slapped with monstrous insurance increases. I do believe the customer deserve to be compensated but screwing other customers is not the way to do it. 4 or 5 years into a new policies and you will have paid half the money back to yourself if your were a Setanta policy holder. The excess will just line the someones pockets. Once this bankroll starts for can't see it stopping anytime soon.

Pov06

Business Cat wrote: »

One of them involved 2 guys, high on illegal substances going on a driving spree. Over the course of the day they were involved in 3 accidents, the third of which ensued when an argument broke out between the driver and the passenger, the passenger grabbed the steering wheel and they ended up hitting a cyclist, the cyclist suffered horrendous injuries and there is a reserve of €2.6 million on it.

Are there any news reports about this? I don't recall seeing it in the news. Absolutely crazy carry-on. Life imprisonment is what is needed but knowing Irish courts that will mean 10 years and no more :mad:

Dartz

What do Motor Insurance and Jesus Christ have in common?

After Three Days they rise again.

To Elland Back

Pov06 wrote: »

Are there any news reports about this? I don't recall seeing it in the news. Absolutely crazy carry-on. Life imprisonment is what is needed but knowing Irish courts that will mean 10 years and no more :mad:

Trust me, there are many more incidents like this happening all the time. Not all have the same devastating outcome, but the circumstances match

jimgoose

To Elland Back wrote: »

Trust me, there are many more incidents like this happening all the time. Not all have the same devastating outcome, but the circumstances match

I'd say as a regular ratepayer you'd have no idea of the full extent of the mentalism that goes on.

JamesBond2010

Listen to this as a joke 123.ie (Its a QUOTE)charging nearly 100e extra just cause i drive a honda instead of a focus. 1,104 vs 1,184
Insurance gone to the dogs

Greenmachine

JamesBond2010 wrote: »

Listen to this as a joke 123.ie (Its a QUOTE)charging nearly 100e extra just cause i drive a honda instead of a focus. 1,104 vs 1,184
Insurance gone to the dogs

Year, Annual mileage, Age of driver, exact model?

Liam McPoyle

Pov06 wrote: »

Are there any news reports about this? I don't recall seeing it in the news. Absolutely crazy carry-on. Life imprisonment is what is needed but knowing Irish courts that will mean 10 years and no more :mad:

It happened in 2013.

micosoft

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

and what happens when someone without pot to piss in writes off your brand new 60 grand BMW?

As well as that , every petrol station within a few miles of the border may shut up shop straight away too and save themselves the heartache of going bust.

If you have a 60 grand BMW you pay for comprehensive to cover that scenario.

Northern Ireland is a big problem though. Preferably we'd do an all island solution. That said, we are only talking a couple of cent per litre.

K.Flyer

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

and what happens when someone without pot to piss in writes off your brand new 60 grand BMW?
[...]

micosoft wrote: »

If you have a 60 grand BMW you pay for comprehensive to cover that scenario. [...]

Easy to say to just claim off your own insurance for someone else's negligence, but just wait and see what your renewal costs will be then.

MugMugs

I don't mind the PMPA or Quinn Levies. We regulated those entities...... Or didnt as the case may be and we should deal with the mess. My issue here is though, a Maltese firm under Maltese regulation goes tits up and the paddies pay the price. It really does seem we are a complete soft touch in this world.

JamesBond2010

Greenmachine wrote: »

Year, Annual mileage, Age of driver, exact model?

5yrs no claims
2000
wasnt on it (say average though)
34
civic 1.4 saloon petrol
focus.1.4 petrol

Liam McPoyle

JamesBond2010 wrote: »

5yrs no claims
2000
wasnt on it (say average though)
34
civic 1.4 saloon petrol
focus.1.4 petrol

€100 of a difference is marginal considering the difference in the cars.

Civics are massive red flag cars for insurers, even with your age and full bonus.

Youngblood.III

Wait till Zurich buy RSA (123.ie) there will be even less operators in the market...

Liam McPoyle

123 are a massive part of why insurance is in the state its in.

They entered the market, aggressively selling policies way under what was a safe level and as a result other companies had to drop their premiums to try and retain their market share.

Now they are trying to claw back to the premium levels that people should have been paying all along.

The fact of the matter is that Irish motorists, in general, have had it pretty good for the last decade or so in terms of pricing but its now time to get back to sustainable levels.

Its going to be a tough pill to swallow but its something that needs to be done to safe guard everyone's motor insurance for years to come.

punisher5112

no waY has it being cheap the last 10 years.

Proper regulation and pay outs should be cut.

Setanta was a company that only sold insurance to the Irish market.

We have a ton of other charges, taxes levies on the way with all the other things happening. Europe is going to ruin it.

rizzodun

punisher5112 wrote: »

no waY has it being cheap the last 10 years.

Proper regulation and pay outs should be cut.

Setanta was a company that only sold insurance to the Irish market.

We have a ton of other charges, taxes levies on the way with all the other things happening. Europe is going to ruin it.

I agree, part of the problem is the tendancy in Ireland for the awarding of massive payouts for accident claims, it's not sustainable.

Liam McPoyle

punisher5112 wrote: »

no waY has it being cheap the last 10 years.

Proper regulation and pay outs should be cut.

Setanta was a company that only sold insurance to the Irish market.

We have a ton of other charges, taxes levies on the way with all the other things happening. Europe is going to ruin it.

Insurance today in Ireland, despite an approx 20% increase in the last 18 months, is still 27% cheaper than it was in 2002.

Average motor premium in the uk is around £650 which is over €700.

Have a look in the thread on here where people are showing their renewal premiums, there are very few of them near €700+ never mind over it.

So yes, motor insurance has been cheaper here than it should have been.

That, coupled with ridiculous payouts for minor injuries is a major reason why the industry is currently in the mire.