The price of land where to now

handlemaster · 03-09-2015 8:15am #1

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/sep/02/britain-farmland-tax-haven-reform?CMP=fb_gu

The UK has had a big increase in land prices as detailed on the article above. Where do you see land prices going in Ireland ?

Willfarman · 03-09-2015 9:13am

Going up. Always up. Buy it now. There not making any more of it and sure it's not often a bit comes up beside ya. Now where did I leave me income crisis placard!

_Brian · 03-09-2015 10:04am

There is something in that Will.

Being an island nation combined with our inexplicable sometimes irrational attraction to owning land, these things keep the price of land up, the first can't change and I see no signs of the second changing either.

waalaa · 03-09-2015 10:16am

If and when subsidies finish there will be a big ol' crash on agricultural land.

handlemaster · 03-09-2015 11:07am

Big demand for housing none been builth when that gets going I think prices will move

rangler1 · 03-09-2015 11:10am

handlemaster wrote: »

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/sep/02/britain-farmland-tax-haven-reform?CMP=fb_gu

The UK has had a big increase in land prices as detailed on the article above. Where do you see land prices going in Ireland ?

15 acres of good land beside me made 120000 and the buyer was the only one bidding, I thought if he held tough he'd get it for less

frazzledhome · 03-09-2015 11:13am

waalaa wrote: »

If and when subsidies finish there will be a big ol' crash on agricultural land.

What you call subsidies are in fact a compensation mechanism allowing farmers produce cheaper food. The reality is they subsidise the consumer

That said they have little or no impact on land price, the reason land is expensive is so little is traded. As long as that continues the price will remain high

Willfarman · 03-09-2015 11:20am

Is it time to pull the scaffolding and cement mixer outa the briars?

Willfarman · 03-09-2015 11:22am

rangler1 wrote: »

15 acres of good land beside me made 120000 and the buyer was the only one bidding, I thought if he held tough he'd get it for less

Private treaty?

handlemaster · 03-09-2015 11:27am

rangler1 wrote: »

15 acres of good land beside me made 120000 and the buyer was the only one bidding, I thought if he held tough he'd get it for less

Sounds cheap. Was there the holy grail site potential

ganmo · 03-09-2015 11:31am

the tax free income from land leasing will only restrict the amount of land that comes up for sale

theres a big problems in the building sector, one site near me 20/30 houses closed after showhouses being built and alot of work on the rest of the site done. I reckon a lot of developers are hoping house prices will rise more and more.

Username John · 03-09-2015 11:58am

Cant see it going down much...

As farmers, we always dream / want more land, so if / when it does come up for sale there is always money found...

Combined with
- More people are part time farming, so they have a second off-farm income
- The part-time people have more disposable income, than the full time lads in some cases
- So there will be more 'non-farming-derived' money coming to buy farms, from the part-time people. Even if farm incomes go down, then more people will seek off-farm employment... keeping prices up...

Well, that's my opinion... today anyways...

rangler1 · 03-09-2015 12:07pm

Willfarman wrote: »

Private treaty?

Public auction, that's how I know he was the only one interested, not much road frontage

Capercaillie · 03-09-2015 12:08pm

frazzledhome wrote: »

What you call subsidies are in fact a compensation mechanism allowing farmers produce cheaper food. The reality is they subsidise the consumer

That said they have little or no impact on land price, the reason land is expensive is so little is traded. As long as that continues the price will remain high

Don't think people would go hungry in Ireland/EU if subsidies went.

td5man · 03-09-2015 12:13pm

Willfarman wrote: »

Is it time to pull the scaffolding and cement mixer outa the briars?

You need a 20% of the price of a house before the bank will look at you. And 2 good wages.

Bullocks · 03-09-2015 12:19pm

Willfarman wrote: »

Is it time to pull the scaffolding and cement mixer outa the briars?

I never put mine away , I'm looking for a lad at the minute and they can't be got ! At least not got at money that would pay me to have them

pedigree 6 · 03-09-2015 12:19pm

Capercaillie wrote: »

Don't think people would go hungry in Ireland/EU if subsidies went.

I hope you have your body armour on.:D It wouldn't make a bit of difference to me if sfp went. There's a farmer near me that can and does buy a farm every year out of his sfp.:rolleyes: That's just the way it is.

frazzledhome · 03-09-2015 12:27pm

pedigree 6 wrote: »

I hope you have your body armour on.:D It wouldn't make a bit of difference to me if sfp went. There's a farmer near me that can and does buy a farm every year out of his sfp.:rolleyes: That's just the way it is.

It must be very cheap land or very large SFP

pedigree 6 · 03-09-2015 12:32pm

frazzledhome wrote: »

It must be very cheap land or very large SFP

I not going to say anymore but the latter, self made man though his life would make a good book.

_Brian · 03-09-2015 12:34pm

Capercaillie wrote: »

Don't think people would go hungry in Ireland/EU if subsidies went.

I don't think it's going to happen.
Come 2019 there will be another "fudge" negotiated which will see essentially the same poor pattern of distribution continue.

Those receiving the lions share say that if it were pulled that they would cease production and so the beef industry would collapse. Myself I think there indeed would be a temporary fall in beef production , but it would be temporary, prices would increase and so push on supplies again.

westcoast66 · 03-09-2015 12:35pm

I recently bought 22 acres bordering on my farm at public auction. Thought I would get it fairly cheap as about a third of it is useless bog and my neighbor on the other side was not interested. Anyway, 2 other bidders started the bidding going and drove the price right up and made it really expensive for me. They were not false bids either as I know the other two and what they wanted it for. Mad country.

ganmo · 03-09-2015 12:37pm

pedigree 6 wrote: »

I hope you have your body armour on.:D It wouldn't make a bit of difference to me if sfp went. There's a farmer near me that can and does buy a farm every year out of his sfp.:rolleyes: That's just the way it is.

There was a time when you would have enough money to buy land from selling wool

_Brian · 03-09-2015 12:39pm

westcoast66 wrote: »

I recently bought 22 acres bordering on my farm at public auction. Thought I would get it fairly cheap as about a third of it is useless bog and my neighbor on the other side was not interested. Anyway, 2 other bidders started the bidding going and drove the price right up and made it really expensive for me. They were not false bids either as I know the other two and what they wanted it for. Mad country.

Maybe what's mad is that you expected nobody to bid on it because you were interested.
If they were genuinely bidding then why shouldn't they ??

frazzledhome · 03-09-2015 12:43pm

pedigree 6 wrote: »

I hope you have your body armour on.:D It wouldn't make a bit of difference to me if sfp went. There's a farmer near me that can and does buy a farm every year out of his sfp.:rolleyes: That's just the way it is.

It must be very cheap land or very large SFP

westcoast66 · 03-09-2015 12:48pm

_Brian wrote: »

Maybe what's mad is that you expected nobody to bid on it because you were interested.
If they were genuinely bidding then why shouldn't they ??

You are right of course. Just pissed off that it went so expensive!

td5man · 03-09-2015 1:04pm

Bullocks wrote: »

I never put mine away , I'm looking for a lad at the minute and they can't be got ! At least not got at money that would pay me to have them

Where do I send the cv? How many tea breaks?

Capercaillie · 03-09-2015 1:12pm

Bullocks wrote: »

I never put mine away , I'm looking for a lad at the minute and they can't be got ! At least not got at money that would pay me to have them

td5man wrote: »

Where do I send the cv? How many tea breaks?

Can I draw a subsidy as well:D

td5man · 03-09-2015 1:31pm

Capercaillie wrote: »

Can I draw a subsidy as well:D

Disturbance money.
It might interfere with my social life.

handlemaster · 03-09-2015 3:15pm

westcoast66 wrote: »

I recently bought 22 acres bordering on my farm at public auction. Thought I would get it fairly cheap as about a third of it is useless bog and my neighbor on the other side was not interested. Anyway, 2 other bidders started the bidding going and drove the price right up and made it really expensive for me. They were not false bids either as I know the other two and what they wanted it for. Mad country.

So what did you pay in the end?

CloughCasey1 · 03-09-2015 4:40pm

Bullocks wrote: »

I never put mine away , I'm looking for a lad at the minute and they can't be got ! At least not got at money that would pay me to have them

The good lads are always too dear and the bad lads make the job dear on you.

Dawggone · 03-09-2015 5:56pm

frazzledhome wrote: »

It must be very cheap land or very large SFP

There is a lot of bickering and sniping on here about SFP.
Firstly the SFP was made a "personal" payment in Ireland where in France it was attached to the actual acre and was never allowed to be traded in its own right.
Secondly, because of it being able to be traded, why didn't guys just go buy entitlements?

On the subject of land, I looked very closely at a 540ha farm of late but walked away when some Dutch buyers took it over the top.

Edit. Anybody hazard a stab at the value? Farm in four blocks. Buildings only fit to be leveled and €177k SFP. Naked land really.
Good quality land with 70ha very dry.

ganmo · 03-09-2015 6:13pm

Bullocks wrote: »

I never put mine away , I'm looking for a lad at the minute and they can't be got ! At least not got at money that would pay me to have them

If ya wanted new ... Targeted advertising

pedigree 6 · 03-09-2015 6:16pm

Dawggone wrote: »

There is a lot of bickering and sniping on here about SFP.
Firstly the SFP was made a "personal" payment in Ireland where in France it was attached to the actual acre and was never allowed to be traded in its own right.
Secondly, because of it being able to be traded, why didn't guys just go buy entitlements?

On the subject of land, I looked very closely at a 540ha farm of late but walked away when some Dutch buyers took it over the top.

Edit. Anybody hazard a stab at the value? Farm in four blocks. Buildings only fit to be leveled and €177k SFP. Naked land really.
Good quality land with 70ha very dry.

Are you able to trade entitlements? I really never knew, can they be traded without land? Could someone with no land have a big SFP? Is this still going on and will the new system next year change anything? Are SFP made public in france? Value of land 14 million.

Dawggone · 03-09-2015 6:22pm

pedigree 6 wrote: »

Are you able to trade entitlements? I really never knew, can they be traded without land? Could someone with no land have a big SFP? Is this still going on and will the new system next year change anything? Are SFP made public in france? Value of land 14 million.

1.no
2. They have to with the land.
3.no
4.not really
5.dont know or care
6. 1.4 is much closer.

pedigree 6 · 03-09-2015 6:27pm

They put the top earners on SFp on the front page of the local papers here.:rolleyes:

pedigree 6 · 03-09-2015 6:50pm

Are you sure 1.4m? if so you'd have it paid off with sfp in 8 years.:)

rangler1 · 03-09-2015 6:55pm

pedigree 6 wrote: »

Are you sure 1.4m? if so you'd have it paid off with sfp in 8 years.:)

The farm I visited in france with bord bia in june was something similar, they were after buying 250ha in two lots in eight years. but they work hard.
he sold a bungalow and 9 acres in galway to go, some improvement in assets

pedigree 6 · 03-09-2015 7:02pm

rangler1 wrote: »

The farm I visited in france with bord bia in june was something similar, they were after buying 250ha in two lots in eight years. but they work hard.
he sold a bungalow and 9 acres in galway to go, some improvement in assets

What's the catch? Do they have any laws about foreigners buying land? Trained farmers etc?

rangler1 · 03-09-2015 7:43pm

pedigree 6 wrote: »

What's the catch? Do they have any laws about foreigners buying land? Trained farmers etc?

I don't know, but this guys son joined him this year and the son got 50 suckler premium free and I think their suckler premium is €200/yr.
I assume they're getting that premium on all their cows on top of their SFP
We just talked about farming didn't really get into cost of living, income tax, etc, seems to grow great maize and winter crops

pedigree 6 · 03-09-2015 8:00pm

13 acres made 1.050 mill in gorey. It's starting up again.

Dawggone · 03-09-2015 8:16pm

rangler1 wrote: »

The farm I visited in france with bord bia in june was something similar, they were after buying 250ha in two lots in eight years. but they work hard.
he sold a bungalow and 9 acres in galway to go, some improvement in assets

Herd of Limousin's?
Was getting into milking goats

kowtow · 03-09-2015 8:28pm

frazzledhome wrote: »

What you call subsidies are in fact a compensation mechanism allowing farmers produce cheaper food. The reality is they subsidise the consumer

That said they have little or no impact on land price, the reason land is expensive is so little is traded. As long as that continues the price will remain high

Generally it is liquidity which attracts a higher price (hence the "liquidity premium") not the other way round.

I'm quite sure subsidy is capitalised in our current land prices, and if it was removed they would fall. On the other hand loose planning arrangements certainly add an occasional bonus over generations of ownership.

Willfarman · 03-09-2015 8:29pm

pedigree 6 wrote: »

13 acres made 1.050 mill in gorey. It's starting up again.

Cool your keks now sonny boy. This land has pp for houses and is zoned. There isn't another town like Gorey in the country. 1 hour to dublin. Biggest and best secondary school in the country. There was only one small ghost estate and this was due to ridiculous planning. Location location location.

rangler1 · 03-09-2015 9:10pm

Dawggone wrote: »

Herd of Limousin's?
Was getting into milking goats

You know a lot more than you're saying :cool:
He has goats and we spent so long talking in the yard that we didn't really get near the cows but I think they are, I tell you he set our lads thinking anyway.
He said a lot of the guys that came with him went back to Ireland , found it too hard

kevthegaff · 03-09-2015 9:19pm

kowtow wrote: »

Generally it is liquidity which attracts a higher price (hence the "liquidity premium") not the other way round.

I'm quite sure subsidy is capitalised in our current land prices, and if it was removed they would fall. On the other hand loose planning arrangements certainly add an occasional bonus over generations of ownership.

+1

Grueller · 03-09-2015 9:27pm

Willfarman wrote: »

Cool your keks now sonny boy. This land has pp for houses and is zoned. There isn't another town like Gorey in the country. 1 hour to dublin. Biggest and best secondary school in the country. There was only one small ghost estate and this was due to ridiculous planning. Location location location.

Great town alright. The boys that bought that land are building an estate that is backing onto that 13 acres. Some of it is zoned and they own a hotel that bounds the land too.
A more realistic barometer around Gorey is 8.3 acres on the edge of a tiny village (no pub or shop even in it) 5 miles outside the town making €128k or a shake over 15k per acre. Local dairy farmer bought it.

The price of land where to now

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