schooling costs for my Husbands child

Blonde27

hey all

I want to get your opinion on this-my Husbands daughter who is 13 is back to school. My husband who is on a very low income supports give maintenance to the Mother. She recently asked for 300 euro to cover the back to school costs. We know for a fact that she got the back to school allowance of 200 euro recently. He could not afford to give her this, but instead bought his daughter her school shoes and school supplies. The mother is stating that she is only paying the same towards her school stuff and she doesnt care if thats what she only goes back to school with (realistically her uniform). She didnt pay her book bill last year even though we gave the money to her for it and realise this will probably happen again this year.
it really angers me to think that she is using her back to school allowance on going out and partying rather than spending it on her daughter.
What can we do-he cant afford to pay her book bill-I do realise that we have a joint income being married but should the onus be on me to cover these costs! My income covers all the bills and mortgage -his ex has a better social life than us going out every weekend.

Dardania

What are the actual costs for sending her back to school? If you have trust issues with the mother RE where the money goes, she needs to be precise about how the money is going to be spent

Blonde27

thats the thing, we dont know where the money is going, she just came up a figure and i think she was trying to get us to pay for everything! from previous years, we know that book bills were not paid, so we try to buy things directly instead of giving her the cash.

The Diddakoi

You could also give the money for the books to the school directly.

mordeith

Blonde27 wrote: »

thats the thing, we dont know where the money is going, she just came up a figure and i think she was trying to get us to pay for everything! from previous years, we know that book bills were not paid, so we try to buy things directly instead of giving her the cash.

Any school will (or should) give out notices for monies that need to be paid. You should ask for copies of these. Or get your husband to enquire dorectly with the school.

Blonde27

yes, my problem is though we have already spent about 100 euro on her, her Dad doesnt have the money for school book rental at the moment and the mother does be off partying at weekends so that is obviously where her money is going! she wont be paying it on books. its just infuriating that we have to pay off these debts all the time..

Blonde27

BTW, he has not gone to court for access/maintenance as he has paid maintenance through her bank account since they separated, but i think the time has come so that all these payments can be organised and written down. The only things that we have done is through solicitors letters to agree access and maintenance.

The Diddakoi

€100 would not go very far towards sending a 13 year old back to school.

Do you have a court ordered maintenance arrangement ?? If you do perhaps you could get it adjusted if you feel it is leaving you and your husband short of money.

Blonde27

No we dont have anything from Court, maintenance is paid through her bank account and she also claims her One parent allowance. As advised, she has also received her 200 euro for back to school costs...

Dardania

My opinion, without any experience in this area, but take it or leave it:
your focus should be on your husband's daughter, and not on what the mother does at her weekends. It may be true that she's off partying, wasting money (including the maintenance money) but you really haven't any proof of that, and if it were brought up in discussions with the mother, it could prompt a knee-jerk reaction against your husband's daughter.

If your husband can't pay, he can't pay this once off - fair enough.

Maybe address the mother's inability to save for the daughter going back to school over the summer months (saving your husband's maintenance money) and offer the coming few months of maintenance money (or part thereoff) for back to school expenses?

From looking here, it seems it should be around ~€471 once off: http://www.creditunion.ie/communications/news/2015/title,9240,en.php

Edit: and obviously, it should have proper expenses paid against it...

very messy situation - heart breaking i'd say

The Diddakoi

If you think he is paying too much the only thing to do is get it changed through the courts, and get an order which clarifies what other expenses will be paid on top of the weekly maintenance, such as clothes, books, school fees etc.

Even with the €200, that still only makes €300 towards back to school costs.....which wont come close to covering it.

Blonde27

thanks for your advice on all of this

GarIT

The point of maintenance is to pay for everything the child needs. The cost of going to school is factored into this. Don't pay a cent more.

January

GarIT wrote: »

The point of maintenance is to pay for everything the child needs. The cost of going to school is factored into this. Don't pay a cent more.

That's not always true. School, Christmas, birthdays and extra curricular activities are regularly paid on top of maintenance as advised by the courts.

The Diddakoi

GarIT wrote: »

The point of maintenance is to pay for everything the child needs. The cost of going to school is factored into this. Don't pay a cent more.

Depends whether the maintenance paid is court ordered based on the fathers income, or just a voluntary amount.

Some fathers pay as little as €20 a week voluntarily, not saying the husband of the Op is, but that hardly covers anything.

zeffabelli

Well the cost for mine 2nd class was the guts of E600 this year. And that is with NO duplicates for uniforms...one of everything.

I can only imagine what a 13 year old girl costs.

Tell your husband to get a copy of the book list and buy them directly from Easons and a gift certificate to the uniform shop.

I think you guys need to get more realistic. 100 is a drop in the bucket.

And then another 100 in the spring and none of this includes extra curriculars.

Moonbeam

600 is crazy!!

we have an expensive uniform - it is about 140 for everything (not shoes) for Junior Infants
Book list incl book rental,bought books and art supplies was 105.
Shoes and Runners as usual as much as you want to spend!

For 1st class,we didn't need to buy a new uniform but book list incl rental and art was 141.

zeffabelli

Moonbeam wrote: »

600 is crazy!!

we have an expensive uniform - it is about 140 for everything (not shoes) for Junior Infants
Book list incl book rental,bought books and art supplies was 105.
Shoes and Runners as usual as much as you want to spend!

For 1st class,we didn't need to buy a new uniform but book list incl rental and art was 141.

I agree. It's nuts. Uniform about 100, books just over 100, supplies and bits and pieces like pencils, rulers etc,20, 200 materials fee, 85 voluntary contribution, runners, school shoes, 50 swimming, 50 class trip....

Imagine having more than one child to kit out.

There's probably something I'm forgetting. Also got half a message to put money in an envelope but the misting half of the message us how much and what for.

Oh yeah then there's school insurance and extra curriculars...obviously optional.

Moonbeam

I have 4;)
only 2 in big school though.
200 materials?
Our voluntary contribution is 250 every 2 years for optimal tax reasons.
Ours included 15 euro for irish dancing,gymnastics and hip hop 1 a term.

zeffabelli

Moonbeam wrote: »

I have 4;)
only 2 in big school though.
200 materials?
Our voluntary contribution is 250 every 2 years for optimal tax reasons.
Ours included 15 euro for irish dancing,gymnastics and hip hop 1 a term.

The 200 is not voluntary. It's mandatory. The 85 is voluntary but you will get nagged for it.

Are these tax deductible?

Moonbeam

nope,
The Taxes Consolidation Act of 1997 lets schools and some other charities get a tax benefit on donations over 250 euro.

_Brian

I really do sometimes wonder what people spend money on getting kids to school.
Our daughter is going to secondary this year so a whole new uniform, shoes, bag, junior cycle books bought, bits and bobs and it's under €600. Now it's not small money but the majority of her books are full junior cycle books so the following years will be cheaper.

I appreciate your husband is skint but he has responsibilities to his kid. So he's given €100, he probably needs to stup up another €200/300 to pay his share.
He needs to face his responsibilities and stop whining about how the ex is living, like ye never ever go out for a drink or with friends.

zeffabelli

Moonbeam wrote: »

nope,
The Taxes Consolidation Act of 1997 lets schools and some other charities get a tax benefit on donations over 250 euro.

Sorry but if you give money to charity you can claim it as tax back. If schools have charity status, surely an individual can claim this money as if they have donated to charity?

Yeah your going to have to realise that it costs a lot more then 300 e to send a child to school! Like ppl said with voluntary contributions, and general week to week school costs! Your husband should be paying his share and that's the bottom line, it's his child, so stop trying to justify not paying it! Or trying to get out of it! I'm sure he knew that his child was going to school in September, and puttin a few quid away a week you wouldn't be so hard up a week beforehand

ash23

I'm sending an almost 13 year old back to school and here's the costs
Uniform 120
Shoes 50
Pe uniform 20 school hoodie, 10 polo shirts and 20 tracksuit bottoms
School bag using last years but 28 if not
School jacket 34
Insurance plus misc costs charged by school 30
Book rental 100
New trainers 25 (half price sale)
School contribution 50
Art supplies 20
Locker fee 10
Homework journal 5
New bras and tights 40
School supplies 40 (refill pads, pens, folders)
One book not in rental scheme 15
Dictionary for languages, maths tables and English novel 25

So total costs for secondary school can easily peak 500 or 600 depending on the school

Get the mother to outline the expenses and provide receipts if needed. Take off the back to school grant of 200 and split the difference.

You may still be looking at a bill of about 200-300 euro but at least you'll be able to verify what it's being spent on and perhaps pay it to the school directly if you're concerned.
What the mother does at weekends is really none of your concern however she should be outlining the expenses and explaining where the money for school is going.
If she works she might not have gotten the back to school grant at all.
I reduced my hours to part time and this is the first year I've gotten it since my child started school 8 years ago even though I've just one income and no maintenance.

Also most thirteen year old girls are out of children's sizes and into women's sizes for shoes and clothes so the expenses can increase fairly drastically. Ive actually gone back and edited my list three times to add in stuff I forgot I bought and paid for. All I've been doing the last two weeks is emptying my savings account for back to school!

zeffabelli

And next stop on the bankruptcy express, Christmas!

ash23

ash23 wrote:

Get the mother to outline the expenses and provide receipts if needed. Take off the back to school grant of 200 and split the difference.

Yeah but with that anything that comes up during the year has to be split so!!! 300 is still below the yearly cost!

ash23

murraychrisg wrote: »

Yeah but with that anything that comes up during the year has to be split so!!! 300 is still below the yearly cost!

Absolutely. School trips, exam costs, new shoes when they grow a size in a month.... Kids are expensive and teens even moreso as I am finding out!!

Wanderer78

austerity in action! free education, my a*se! disgraceful stuff reading this thread. i wish all parents the best with trying to educate their kids. disgraceful carry on

ash23

ash23 wrote:

Absolutely. School trips, exam costs, new shoes when they grow a size in a month.... Kids are expensive and teens even moreso as I am finding out!!

Course! And tbh, you give 300€ and that's you done for the school year, don't have to buy anything, attend anything or deal with anything!? Take the easy 300€ option!

FishOnABike

zeffabelli wrote: »

Sorry but if you give money to charity you can claim it as tax back. If schools have charity status, surely an individual can claim this money as if they have donated to charity?

I think the way it works is that the charity can claim the tax you would have paid.

e.g. If you donate 250 the school can claim the tax you would have paid on that 250 (probably between 110 and 120) giving the school a total of between 360 and 370 for your net donation of 250.

The school asks you to return form CHY2 to enable them reclaim the tax.

mockingjay

I agree it's an expensive time for all. However, if you have reservations about whether she spends her money on the child's school supplies, it may be a suggestion to ask her for an exact list of what the child requires, and you and your husband could try to source the materials for her within your budget. That way you will be sure that the child gets what they need for school and an indication of the expenditure. If she states she has already purchased the materials, your husband could ask her for receipts.

alcea

Does the school have a website? Maybe the information you are looking for could be found there. The school my children go to has a section where you can download the booklists and costs for the year.

skintiam

Evd-Burner how I wish my son's father was as rational and understanding as you are. Ive always been made to feel like I'm scrounging when I ask him to contribute, he pays €60 per week maintenance and if extra expenses like school books/trips or dentist come up I've asked him to pay half - I have to ask because he would never offer, and he either begrudgingly gives it or says he can't afford it even though he's working and I'm not. My son's in 6th year and this year I've decided I'm done asking him to contribute, I'll manage myself - it's hard enough asking for money without being made to feel low about it.

To the OP what the child's mother does at weekends/spends her money on isn't any of your concern, whether she's on the breadline or earning thousands your partner should still contribute 50% towards the cost of the childs upbringing. I agree with what someone else said about getting a break down of what the money is needed for but do it respectfully. In 1st year my sons father was questioning why I was asking for a certain amount so I gave him the booklist and marked half the books for him to buy instead of taking the money from him.

Wanderer78

these posts about the cost of education is making me very angry. free education me a*se. best of luck to parents trying to deal with this one

Evd-Burner

skintiam wrote: »

Evd-Burner how I wish my son's father was as rational and understanding as you are. Ive always been made to feel like I'm scrounging when I ask him to contribute, he pays €60 per week maintenance and if extra expenses like school books/trips or dentist come up I've asked him to pay half - I have to ask because he would never offer, and he either begrudgingly gives it or says he can't afford it even though he's working and I'm not. My son's in 6th year and this year I've decided I'm done asking him to contribute, I'll manage myself - it's hard enough asking for money without being made to feel low about it.

Don't worry skintiam, we have plenty of our own problems. Unfortunately we are in court within the next month, although I think we will have made our agreement before the date and the solicitors will hand the agreement to the judge to sign into an order. Although we have been getting on a lot better the last few weeks. I have no problem handing over money if I see it's being used for what its intended for and provided I have the money to hand over in the first place.

Blonde27

thanks for all the comments. I think it really irritates me when she comes with all the demands-its ME that ends up paying them! My husband cannot afford to give her more. But also we know for a fact that she gets the back to school grant and never pays the book rental at school so apart from buying the uniform (Dunnes ) and school jumper, she doesnt pay anything else!

Kevhog1988

Also split from my sons mother. My child is four and started preschool this morning. He got the following from me last week.

5 jeans/trousers
5 vests
5 t shirts
Polo shirts
Long sleeve rugby type shirt
5 underwear
3 packs of socks
New jacket
Few hoodies, jumpers etc
One set of very smart jeans jumper and shirt for mass etc.

My parents bought him shoes and my sister bought him runners.

He's kitted out for the year ahead now I hope. Will get him new gloves and hat at some stage too.

I bought all this after noticing his clothes had started to become tatty etc and she didn't seem to be replacing them. She has a new bf but I don't see that as any issue. Instead of making waves I just did an extra few shifts in work and kitted him out.

Op that lot Cost me probably 200 euro. I'd imagine you should do the same and buy the stuff for the child directly

Blonde27

thats what we do too, as well as school shoes, stationary, school bag, we also buy her new runners and clothes throughout the year.

zeffabelli

Blonde27 wrote: »

thanks for all the comments. I think it really irritates me when she comes with all the demands-its ME that ends up paying them! My husband cannot afford to give her more. But also we know for a fact that she gets the back to school grant and never pays the book rental at school so apart from buying the uniform (Dunnes ) and school jumper, she doesnt pay anything else!

How many kids? Depending on the school back to school grant not much.

The real issue here is why is your husband mooching off you to provide for his children?

Blonde27

zeffabelli wrote: »

How many kids? Depending on the school back to school grant not much.

The real issue here is why is your husband mooching off you to provide for his children?

am not going to even respond to that ignorant comment. I know what bills my husband has with his wages and what maintenance he has to pay

zeffabelli

Blonde27 wrote: »

am not going to even respond to that ignorant comment. I know what bills my husband has with his wages and what maintenance he has to pay

It's not ignorant. You're clearly resentful and they aren't your children.

Let him pay for them.

Seriously your giving out about her not paying when he clearly isn't either.

skintiam

"Don't worry skintiam, we have plenty of our own problems. Unfortunately we are in court within the next month, although I think we will have made our agreement before the date and the solicitors will hand the agreement to the judge to sign into an order. Although we have been getting on a lot better the last few weeks. I have no problem handing over money if I see it's being used for what its intended for and provided I have the money to hand over in the first place."

As stressful as going through solicitors probably is now it will save arguments down the line if everything is laid out and agreed, I never went that route but should have and had extra costs factored into a maintenance amount.

OP I understand not everyone is honest and straight up either so I can see some of your frustration, in your case I'd definately make an arrangement going forward of what both parents pay for, either buy the things directly or pay towards but not both.