3,000-year-old road being destroyed

Qualitymark

According to An Taisce, a prehistoric road of major importance is being destroyed.

http://www.antaisce.org/articles/internationally-important-irish-archaeological-monument-being-destroyed-during-heritage

While Irish heritage is being celebrated and promoted this week, the destruction of a major archaeological monument, a major timber-built road of European significance at Mayne Bog, Coole, County Westmeath is continuing.

The article doesn't explain who's destroying it (?anyone know?) but describes the road:

• The monument was a substantial transversely laid plank built roadway.
• It was no mere trackway, it measured from 4.3m to 6m in width.
• The recorded length of the road was 675m, but it was seen to extend beyond both recorded limits.
• A carbon14 date of 1200-820 BC was obtained from the timbers, making it a remarkable structure of Bronze Age date, 1000 years older than the celebrated Corlea Bog roadway in neighbouring County Longford.

Atlantic Dawn

Sorry to sound harsh but what the hell could be gained from preserving it? It's not as if some fururistic material will be found that can be used to cut the costs on a new motorway build.

Qualitymark

If you'd like to look at it purely in financial terms, a 3,000-year-old road has almost magical significance for US and other tourists; it could be a major income provider for a poor county, properly managed and marketed.

Look at Kilmainham Gaol. The government of the time when it was brought back into use for tourism were adamantly against the project, which was completed by volunteers. Now it's one of the country's main tourist sites; it would be in first place except that the current government won't allow more guides to be hired and more tourists to be admitted, and in fact wishes to dispense with the learned and expert guides and replace them with earphones droning the preferred PC version of the story.

gingernut79

Its not thar far from coole to the existing bog Trackway Centre in Corlea which doesn't get enough visitors to keep its cafe open. Which is a super place, by the way.

Greenmachine

If it is worth saving, and "An Taisce" Want to save what is the point of "An Taisce".

Qualitymark

gingernut79 wrote: »

Its not thar far from coole to the existing bog Trackway Centre in Corlea which doesn't get enough visitors to keep its cafe open. Which is a super place, by the way.

Perhaps I'm being egocentric, but the fact that I've never heard of the bog trackway centre in Corlea suggests to me that it's not being marketed well…?

How do you get to that Corlea site by train or bus? Or bike, if you'd give the coordinates?

Edit: ah, a bit north of Athlone. Hard to get to? Need for tour buses to be lured? After all, look at the huge draw that's made of the relatively remote Carrick-a-Rede bridge in the North.

Del.Monte

The Corlea Trackway has been a farce since day one - a wet dream of some University academics and Charlie Haughey. How you can build an interpretative centre to 'interpret' 18 metres of rotten timber is beyond me.



http://www.heritageireland.ie/en/midlandseastcoast/corleatrackwayvisitorcentre/

They couldn't even manage 4,000 thousand visitors last year: http://www.shannonside.ie/news/slight-drop-in-number-of-visitors-to-opw-sites-in-shannonside-region-last-year/

Qualitymark

Isn't that the road that an ancient story has Aengus Óg building?

jonniebgood1

, I cannot help thinking what a major piece of engineering the building of the road must have been without modern power tools and tractors. It would have required a great deal of co-operative labour to complete in the time.

The excavated trackway is flat and smooth, seemingly intended for wheeled transport, carts or maybe chariots. Professor Raftery estimated that around 300 large oak trees would have been required for the planking with a similar amount of birch for the rails. He reckoned that it would have taken around a thousand wagon loads. That is a great deal of work to undertake for any community, and suggests that it was regarded as a high-status project.

Yet, in spite of the huge effort in resources and labour, this trackway system would have lasted less than ten years before sinking back into the bog, and it seems possible that this short lifespan was intentional, or at least, unimportant to its builders.

Archaeology can tell us much about this trackway system. We  can learn when it was constructed, what materials were used and how they were put together. Archaeology can tell us that the main tracks do not connect to other sites but focus on an island of higher ground nearby. This does suggest that the roads were built for a particular ceremonial event of some importance that took place in or about 148 BCE.

http://storyarchaeology.com/the-corlea-trackway/

Nichard Dixon

Qualitymark wrote: »

How do you get to that Corlea site by train or bus?

You can go by road.

Qualitymark wrote: »

Edit: ah, a bit north of Athlone. Hard to get to? Need for tour buses to be lured? After all, look at the huge draw that's made of the relatively remote Carrick-a-Rede bridge in the North.

The Carrick-a-Rede bridge is not remote, it forms part of a coastal tour, people would visit the coast even if it was not there.

But, you are correct, the Corlea site should be better marketed.

Qualitymark

Nichard Dixon wrote: »

You can go by road.

Bit of a cycle from Dublin.

somuj

I work in Born na mona. Roads like this are plentiful across the midlands. Found another one last year in Roscommon. A group of Archaeologists came out to investigate and found a few statues. That was it. They said we coud continue to work the bog its on. This road was way bigger than the one in the ops link. Was about 5 trees deep too and at least a km long.

They told us they afe everywhere and they cant learn anything new from them.

Barely There

Qualitymark wrote: »

According to An Taisce,

If An Taisce had their way we'd all be still living in caves.

Professional objectors to pretty much every piece of major infrastructure in the country over the last couple of decades.

They have zero credibility.

jimd2

gingernut79 wrote: »

Its not thar far from coole to the existing bog Trackway Centre in Corlea which doesn't get enough visitors to keep its cafe open. Which is a super place, by the way.

I never heard of it, might take a trip over to visit. How big is the centre? Has the cafe closed?

dubhthach

somuj wrote: »

I work in Born na mona. Roads like this are plentiful across the midlands. Found another one last year in Roscommon. A group of Archaeologists came out to investigate and found a few statues. That was it. They said we coud continue to work the bog its on. This road was way bigger than the one in the ops link. Was about 5 trees deep too and at least a km long.

They told us they afe everywhere and they cant learn anything new from them.

What kinda statues? Wooden?

What I would say about Tóchar's is that at least if they retrieve proper samples from them and thus get radiocarbon dating (C-14) or tree-ring profiles they can be useful.

I recall there was a number of wooden "idols" retrieved from bogs during 19th century, they tend to fit into picture of presence of La Tene influenced items from Iron age.

dubhthach

Barely There wrote: »

If An Taisce had their way we'd all be still living in caves.

Professional objectors to pretty much every piece of major infrastructure in the country over the last couple of decades.

They have zero credibility.

Strip mining a bog to produce garden compost isn't critical infrastructure tbh.

dubhthach

The date is interesting, if the timbers are showing radiocarbon dating of 1200-800BC you are talking about "Atlantic Bronze age" period. The whole transition point between Bronze to Iron in Ireland is interesting given that there appears to be an "Archaelogical Dark ages" from about 800-300BC -- with renewed contact from Northern Britain into Leath Cuinn (Northern half of Ireland) in period after 300BC (brining La Tene style items etc.)

In general there seems to be lot of contuinity, some have argued that the arrival of dialects of Proto-Indo-European (and even of Proto-Celtic) is during this period.

Qualitymark

somuj wrote: »

Found another one last year in Roscommon. A group of Archaeologists came out to investigate and found a few statues.

Statues made 300 years before Christ are of enormous significance in world history.

Barely There wrote: »

If An Taisce had their way we'd all be still living in caves.

Really? What caves do An Taisce preserve? Interesting!

One of the stories of the making of the causeway:

http://www.ucc.ie/celt/published/T300012/index.html

Del.Monte

This thread is in danger of descending into the usual 'An Taisce should be wound up' nonsense. The simple fact is that there have been hundreds of these bog roads discovered by Bord na Mona over the years and there's already one centre to interpret them. They are of little interest to few but academics and meanwhile heritage that people enjoy and can relate to is kept in a hay shed in Howth.



https://consult.fingal.ie/en/content/national-transport-museum-survival

dubhthach

I neither enjoy or relate to P⁊T van's perhaps I'm an anomaly in that regard.

In general though either case reflects to the fact that heritage in this country is usually regarded as a financial burden in way of "progress", that is unless it can be used to milk tourists.

DaveWalsh2020

Amazing find.. They should remove it and build a tourist attraction site replicating settlements of the Era using original and replica

Qualitymark

Del.Monte wrote: »

They are of little interest to few but academics and meanwhile heritage that people enjoy and can relate to is kept in a hay shed in Howth.

Who are these "people"?

I'm interested in both. Not an academic.

Sure, Bord na Móna can destroy all the bog roads and other finds, if that's what you think should be done, and reap the peat moss from the bog. But when it's gone, it's gone; when your grandchildren are asking you about the millennium-old road their people built, you can say "Ah, that old thing? Wasn't any use so we threw it away. If you want to see Celtic stuff go to Salzburg, there's a great museum there."

Del.Monte

DaveWalsh2020 wrote: »

Amazing find.. They should remove it and build a tourist attraction site replicating settlements of the Era using original and replica

Yep, they should build an OPW centre with talking heads, audio visual displays and waffle by academics stating fiction as fact..oh sorry, but they've already done that at Corlea.

robp

somuj wrote: »

They told us they afe everywhere and they cant learn anything new from them.

This is simply not the case. This roads are hugely informative. In many cases these roads can literally chart how ancient Irish responded to environmental change. In a era where we are spending billions to futureproof against climate change understanding how early Irish got through such change is pertinent.

There are many kinds of wetland sites and some are quite simple and are not suitable for museum displays but large examples like Corlea can create powerful exhibits.

ArnoldLayne

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Sorry to sound harsh but what the hell could be gained from preserving it? It's not as if some fururistic material will be found that can be used to cut the costs on a new motorway build.

You don't sound harsh, you sound like a fecking idiot. Who needs history huh? It's not like humans don't forget their mistakes every 7 years or majorly every couple of generations, and that society is completely destroyed because of it.

An obvious example in this area was the lack of preservation of Georgian Dublin, 'progress', pulled the buildings down, and replaced them with crap. 'progress' destroyed Wood quay despite the protests of the Danish Queen at the time at Wood Quay in person... The Irish state would have made at least 100's of millions in extra tourism at the most basic level. And further on, it would have become a major sense of pride for Irish people which = means yep a happier and more industrious nation = which means yep a better place to live, and a better society for all.

I will never understand this blind short term-ism. Me Me Me

P.S. Sent from my iphone... now that really is some amazing leap in... what exactly?

Qualitymark

ISIS feel just the same way. "History, schmistory. Knock it down!"

Del.Monte

robp wrote: »

This is simply not the case. This roads are hugely informative. In many cases these roads can literally chart how ancient Irish responded to environmental change. In a era where we are spending billions to futureproof against climate change understanding how early Irish got through such change is pertinent.

There are many kinds of wetland sites and some are quite simple and are not suitable for museum displays but large examples like Corlea can create powerful exhibits.

Have you been to Corlea, it's one unbelievable 'bore fest' and I'm a culture vulture. A visit there leaves you clutching your head and running for the exit.

Qualitymark

Del.Monte wrote: »

Have you been to Corlea, it's one unbelievable 'bore fest' and I'm a culture vulture. A visit there leaves you clutching your head and running for the exit.

Yeah, the Dead Zoo was like that when I was a kid, lots of dead stuffed animals with no explanations other than bits of paper. Burn it down!

Del.Monte

Qualitymark wrote: »

Yeah, the Dead Zoo was like that when I was a kid, lots of dead stuffed animals with no explanations other than bits of paper. Burn it down!

Suprisingly, I have visited the Natural History Museum many times and I am quite happy with the way facts and 'real' exhibits are presented. If the Natural History Museum was being created today - which it wouldn't be - it would be with no actual exhbits and artists impressions of what animals might have looked like. Lots of techie hands-on bs.

robp

Del.Monte wrote: »

Have you been to Corlea, it's one unbelievable 'bore fest' and I'm a culture vulture. A visit there leaves you clutching your head and running for the exit.

I haven't and I was not referring to the actual Corlea centre as it is. Whether or not it is a good visitor centre does not change the fact that prehistoric roads can be impressive and even moving sights.

Del.Monte

robp wrote: »

I haven't and I was not referring to the actual Corlea centre as it is. Whether or not it is a good visitor centre does not change the fact that prehistoric roads can be impressive and even moving sights.

So can a pile of old railway sleepers. So come on pull the other one - why do you think Corlea is such a failure some 20 years after it opened? Academics love 'ancient' history as they can expound their views as facts and nobody can haul them up for being factual incorrect. Ancient, so called 'history' especially in Ireland is the preserve of an elite such as Prof.Raftery of UCC and the former Director of the National Museum, Pat Wallace, and their legacy is the total ignoring of more recent history, the hay shed at Howth, the scrapyard at Dromod, Co.Leitrim, the closed down heritage railway at Blennerville, Co.Kerry, the tumbled down Natural History Museum etc. Some legacy.

robp

Del.Monte wrote: »

So can a pile of old railway sleepers. So come on pull the other one - why do you think Corlea is such a failure some 20 years after it opened? Academics love 'ancient' history as they can expound their views as facts and nobody can haul them up for being factual incorrect. Ancient, so called 'history' especially in Ireland is the preserve of an elite such as Prof.Raftery of UCC and the former Director of the National Museum, Pat Wallace, and their legacy is the total ignoring of more recent history, the hay shed at Howth, the scrapyard at Dromod, Co.Leitrim, the closed down heritage railway at Blennerville, Co.Kerry, the tumbled down Natural History Museum etc. Some legacy.

That is crazy. Look on trip advisor. Most people who have visited and reviewed leave positive reviews. It is in a very remote part of Ireland and it is utterly off the tourist trail. So its easy to see why it is poorly visited. One good thing about its location is that it is right by the potential national wetland park that is likely to be created once peat extraction is complete but that is years way.

Barry Raftery was a Professor of Celtic Archaeology. Why would he work on recent industrial heritage? We have academics who work in that area like Colin Rynne.

Qualitymark

I don't know that recent history is ignored - look at the National Library's constant exhibition on 20th-century subjects; MOMA's exhibits on artists such as Eileen Grey and Frieda Kahlo, the flat in Iveagh Buildings preserved from the 1980s, the Little Museum of Dublin, the rock-and-roll museum, the annual tours of houses ranging from the 17th century to new concrete-and-glass massifs, etc.

Del.Monte

I have looked at Trip Advisor and admit to being staggered by the reviews but it's not my experience or that of others that I know. As I stated previously, Corlea was the wet dream of some well connected academics and the Great Leader (CJ) and you should get a cop of 'The Ring Dong Road' to get a proper handle on what went on. I know, I was there (nearby) and at a time when genuinely worthwhile projects could get no funding the Corlea project had cash thrown at it.

Del.Monte

Qualitymark wrote: »

I don't know that recent history is ignored - look at the National Library's constant exhibition on 20th-century subjects; MOMA's exhibits on artists such as Eileen Grey and Frieda Kahlo, the flat in Iveagh Buildings preserved from the 1980s, the Little Museum of Dublin, the rock-and-roll museum, the annual tours of houses ranging from the 17th century to new concrete-and-glass massifs, etc.

Eileen Grey was an Anglo-Irish artist with tenous Irish connections who left Ireland at an early age an is claimed as Irish in much the same way as the Brits tabloid media claim Irish sports stars. the Little Museum of Dublin is a private venture..The Irish State and elite do little or nothing but pay lip service to preservation of anything.

Qualitymark

Eileen Grey was from Wexford; she grew up there and she remained in contact with Irish artists throughout her life.

Museum funding goes to many private exhibitions, as far as I know.

Del.Monte

Qualitymark wrote: »

Eileen Grey was from Wexford; she grew up there and she remained in contact with Irish artists throughout her life.

Museum funding goes to many private exhibitions, as far as I know.

Eileen Grey was born outside Enniscorthy but left Ireland to attend the Slade School of Art in London https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slade_School_of_Fine_Art and then moved to France. Her sexuality made her persona non grata in Ireland.

What is this museum funding of which you speak?

I attended - briefly - a Workshop run by the National Heritage Council on the 23/6/08 where the good and the great waxed lyrical about Transport Preservation. Pat Wallace addressed the meeting and announced that Ireland didn't need a transport museum. Meanwhile, seven years later the Heritage Council still haven't published the outcome of the meeting on their website. I could go on but what's the point as you obviously know better.

http://www.heritagecouncil.ie/museums-archive/events/archive/view-event/article/transport-collections-ireland-a-future-for-the-past/?

Sorry the link doesn't work so you have to go on to the site and search for Transport Collections etc. I'm not surprised as little else works in that self perpetuating, elitist body.

robp

I can think of two state funded museums that cover recent history.

In Cork the Cork Butter Museum.

In Waterford the Bishops place which covers from the Georgian period until the 1970s.

That been said there are many gaps in funding and many projects that really should be funded.

dubhthach

Perhaps a separate thread is required for discussion on heritage funding (and the lack of it -- looking at issue with Beite foundation), cause I don't really see relevance to topic of the damage been done to oldest discovered Tóchar in Ireland (for example when they dug the drainage ditch through it was there an archaeologist present?)

dubhthach

robp wrote: »

That is crazy. Look on trip advisor. Most people who have visited and reviewed leave positive reviews. It is in a very remote part of Ireland and it is utterly off the tourist trail. So its easy to see why it is poorly visited. One good thing about its location is that it is right by the potential national wetland park that is likely to be created once peat extraction is complete but that is years way.

Barry Raftery was a Professor of Celtic Archaeology. Why would he work on recent industrial heritage? We have academics who work in that area like Colin Rynne.

There's also the fact that like most heritage sites in this country there is no PR campaigns encouraging people to visit sites. The whole budget seems to be spent on seperating Yanks from their wallets.

For example it woudn't surprise me that other than a hazy rememberance of it from Junior cert history vast majority of Irish people wouldn't (a) have visited (b) know the location, of Clonmacnoise.

Even this new "Ireland's ancient east" trail, no doubt budget is 99% aimed at foreign tourists. Heaven forbid ye might tempt some Irish people to visit any of these sites.

Fuzzy Clam

I think they've being trying to close Corlea for years. I visited about 8/9 years ago and remember signing a petition to keep it open. Signposting to the place was very poor too.
I moved to within a few minutes of this bog in Coole and heard about the track being found shortly after but nothing more until now.

Arsemageddon

Prehistoric bog roads (toghers) are subdivided into three classes depending on the quality of their construction. The togher at Mayne appears to be a class 1 togher i.e. it is the most sophisticated type of construction and is very rare. In comparison class 2 and class 3 toghers are much more common.

Class 1 toghers required an enormous amount of labour to construct and their function is most commonly interpreted as being for ritual purposes rather than for carrying traffic. The frequent finds of bog bodies which bear the signs of having been subject to ritual sacrifice indicate that bogs and water were important to ritual practice in the late Bronze Age and Iron Age. Similar structures dating from the same era have been found in Britain and in northwest continental Europe indicating a common religious practice across the region at this time. Class 2 and 3 toghers are of much simpler construction and were usually built to allow people to walk from A to B across a bog i.e. their purpose is functional rather than ritual.

The level of preservation that wetland environments afford to organic material is quite frankly mindboggling. Archaeology isn't about getting pretty, shiny things to put on display in a museum, it's about gleaning information that can be interpreted to understand how people lived in the past.

Usually anything An Taisce have to say about archaeology is embarrassingly mistaken, but this time they are spot on. This site appears to be one of international importance and should have been preserved. A previous poster who stated that he was told by an archaeologist that we learn nothing new from such sites is talking complete rubbish. He either misunderstood what he was being told or was talking to someone who was incompetent, very inexperienced or just plain stupid.

Ireland's National Monument Acts (1930-2004) require that if an archaeological site is going to be adversely impacted by a development then the developer has to pay for the site to fully excavated. This is known as 'the polluter pays principle' and is a cornerstone of environmental law worldwide.

The Planning and Development Act 2000 gave Bord na Mona an exemption from having to carry out full excavation of site on their lands as the cost of excavation would be excessive. BNM archaeological mitigation policy allows for excavation of small portions of sites on their lands. Most of the sites found on BNM lands are class 2 or class 3 toghers, therefore this policy is reasonable for these type of sites. Class 1 toghers are a different thing altogether and should either be preserved or excavated to a much higher standard.

The site at Mayne appears to be on private land where peat is being harvested. The EIA for the development specifically mentions the road.
http://www.epa.ie/licences/lic_eDMS/090151b2804a345b.pdf (this is 15mb).

The summary report of the 2006 excavation is available here.
http://www.excavations.ie/report/2006/Westmeath/0016811/

Private developments do not enjoy the same exemption from full excavation that BNM do and the site is listed as a Recorded Monument (WM002-038 & WM002-039). I have no idea at all how the damage to this site was allowed to happen, it is disgraceful that it did.

Arsemageddon

Del.Monte wrote: »

Yep, they should build an OPW centre with talking heads, audio visual displays and waffle by academics stating fiction as fact..oh sorry, but they've already done that at Corlea.

The goal of excavating or preserving archaeological sites is not to build an interpretive centre. Excavation is about acquiring data that can used to interpret the past. When an archaeological site is destroyed it disappears for ever. It can not be replaced. Preservation allows sites to remain in place for study by future generations. Given the rate at which archaeological analysis excavation and analysis techniques are advancing this is the correct approach. The technologies that may be available in the future are beyond our ken.

Del.Monte wrote: »

So can a pile of old railway sleepers. So come on pull the other one - why do you think Corlea is such a failure some 20 years after it opened? Academics love 'ancient' history as they can expound their views as facts and nobody can haul them up for being factual incorrect. Ancient, so called 'history' especially in Ireland is the preserve of an elite such as Prof.Raftery of UCC and the former Director of the National Museum, Pat Wallace, and their legacy is the total ignoring of more recent history, the hay shed at Howth, the scrapyard at Dromod, Co.Leitrim, the closed down heritage railway at Blennerville, Co.Kerry, the tumbled down Natural History Museum etc. Some legacy.

Absolute waffle. Prehistory refers to the period for which there are no written records. Archaeology fills in the gaps in our knowledge of the past. Archaeological theories are based on data recovered from excavation, the interpretation of this data is subject to peer review, if a theory can't be backed up by evidence then it will not enjoy general acceptance. It is by no means the preservation of an elite, field archaeology is grossly underpaid and conditions of employment can be awful. People who engage in this work do so because they love it and are very dedicated, no more and no less. TBH that comment it is just ridiculous.

Del.Monte wrote: »

I have looked at Trip Advisor and admit to being staggered by the reviews but it's not my experience or that of others that I know. As I stated previously, Corlea was the wet dream of some well connected academics and the Great Leader (CJ) and you should get a cop of 'The Ring Dong Road' to get a proper handle on what went on. I know, I was there (nearby) and at a time when genuinely worthwhile projects could get no funding the Corlea project had cash thrown at it.

With the benefit of hindsight the Corlea centre wouldn't have been built. However, it is a large, purpose built facility and the costs of continuing to keep it open are very low. If it was closed the building would fall to rack and ruin. Better a living dog than a dead lion.

Del.Monte wrote: »

What is this museum funding of which you speak?

I attended - briefly - a Workshop run by the National Heritage Council on the 23/6/08 where the good and the great waxed lyrical about Transport Preservation. Pat Wallace addressed the meeting and announced that Ireland didn't need a transport museum. Meanwhile, seven years later the Heritage Council still haven't published the outcome of the meeting on their website. I could go on but what's the point as you obviously know better.

http://www.heritagecouncil.ie/museums-archive/events/archive/view-event/article/transport-collections-ireland-a-future-for-the-past/?

Sorry the link doesn't work so you have to go on to the site and search for Transport Collections etc. I'm not surprised as little else works in that self perpetuating, elitist body.

Breaking News Just in - Massive Recession hits Ireland seven years ago!

Funding for Ireland's heritage sector has been absolutely devastated during the recession. The National Museum and the Heritage Council have had their budgets slashed. Unemployment among archaeologists was running at about 95%. The National Monuments Service and the NRA also lost a lot of their staff.

There is still hardly any funding available for new heritage projects from central government and LEADER funding has been unavailable for almost 2 years. Pretty much every job advertised in the heritage sector in the last 5 years has been an internship which leads nowhere.

You want a National transport museum, fair enough. That doesn't mean you should be denigrating others aspects of Ireland's heritage.

Your comments about Barry Raftery are pretty low, he was both a brilliant scholar and as sound a fella you could ever hope to meet. His work in advancing wetland archaeology was pioneering and is highly respected around the world. He was in now way elitist and is very much missed by all who knew him.

eisen1968

I think that's the road outside my house. It looks about 3000 years old.

Del.Monte

I can't be bothered to answer all your points but 'breaking news just in' - there was never any funding for preservation of anything decades before the current recession. I'm not just talking about transport preservation and I don't know what Prof. Raftery being a nice man has to do with anything. And, the whole heritage funding scene is dominated by a clique of people in the Heritage Council. The likes of the late Lord Killanin ran the show like a personal fiefdom.

Arsemageddon

Del.Monte wrote: »

I can't be bothered to answer all your points but 'breaking news just in' - there was never any funding for preservation of anything decades before the current recession. I'm not just talking about transport preservation and I don't know what Prof. Raftery being a nice man has to do with anything. And, the whole heritage funding scene is dominated by a clique of people in the Heritage Council. The likes of the late Lord Killanin ran the show like a personal fiefdom.

I'm not surprised that you don't want to engage with the points I made, it's always best to never engage when embarking on a good rant.

There was never any funding for preservation? Apart from the National Museum, the National Gallery, OPW sites, various big houses, archaeological sites, heritage centres, county museums, etc, etc.

In your own area of personal interest there is also a reduced rate of tax for classic cars.

The reason I mentioned Barry Raftery was a nice fella was in response to you saying he was part of some shadowy archaeology illuminati and that all his work was gobbledegook. Basically, I was pointing out that you are talking through your arse.

VirginiaB

I'm an American, descendant of Famine-era immigrants who came to NYC in the 1840s and 50s. I visited Ireland for the first time after I finally uncovered the origins of many of my 16 great-great grandparents, who came from counties from Cork to Antrim.

When I planned the trip, both Kilmainham Gaol and the Corlea Trackway were on my list. Both were outstanding sites tho completely different of course. Kilmainham was one of the most powerful experiences I have had in my travel life. Corlea Trackway was way off the beaten track, no pun intended, but of the greatest interest and extremely well-interpreted. We went after spending most of the day at Strokestown and then driving to Birr, not far from one of my townlands of origin.

Speaking as a visitor and part of the diaspora, Ireland needs to do more to publicize such sites and perhaps most of all, make transportation available to visitors and the Irish themselves. And are schoolchildren taken to places such as Corlea Trackway to help them learn about their heritage? Hope so.

Del.Monte

This old thread http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=65861251 is kind of related - from a time before the big exodus.

Qualitymark

I sympathise over the lack of a good transport museum (though there's little Irish-made transport to commemorate, I think), but don't such projects usually start with an individual with a passion and a spare barn (or a friend with a spare barn), and then get funding and backing when they prove successful? That's not far from what happened with Kilmainham.

jonniebgood1

VirginiaB wrote: »

I'm an American, descendant of Famine-era immigrants who came to NYC in the 1840s and 50s. I visited Ireland for the first time after I finally uncovered the origins of many of my 16 great-great grandparents, who came from counties from Cork to Antrim.

When I planned the trip, both Kilmainham Gaol and the Corlea Trackway were on my list. Both were outstanding sites tho completely different of course. Kilmainham was one of the most powerful experiences I have had in my travel life. Corlea Trackway was way off the beaten track, no pun intended, but of the greatest interest and extremely well-interpreted. We went after spending most of the day at Strokestown and then driving to Birr, not far from one of my townlands of origin.

Speaking as a visitor and part of the diaspora, Ireland needs to do more to publicize such sites and perhaps most of all, make transportation available to visitors and the Irish themselves. And are schoolchildren taken to places such as Corlea Trackway to help them learn about their heritage? Hope so.

Thanks for posting- This shows what I would have believed about the type of centre at Corlea. Whilst its not something everyone enjoys it is of course worthwhile from both a tourist and educational point of view. Its very easy for people to criticise these attractions if they aren't mainstream enough. There are many countries would love to have an attraction dating that far back. Notwithstanding that better publicity should be part of a centre like this.

tac foley

Take a look at Flag Fen, just along the road from us here, to see how such a site can be managed to the benefit of future generations.

tac