Ireland conned

I said

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/conned-a-german-view-of-ireland-1.1454115
What great leaders we allow our selfs to vote in

td5man

There was a Canadian company doing a geological survey here a few weeks ago.

CloughCasey1

I said wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/conned-a-german-view-of-ireland-1.1454115
What great leaders we allow our selfs to vote in

Puppets on a string with fat wallets full of notes

Username John

I said wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/conned-a-german-view-of-ireland-1.1454115
What great leaders we allow our selfs to vote in

Is that article not 2 years old?

professore

I read that article, and it's a load of nonsense mostly.

The bank guarantee was a bad decision, but what were the alternatives?

The German banks operating here cost the German taxpayer hundreds of billions and rising, not to mention their own failed banks. I'm sure they spoke with contempt about Merkel and her buddies too.

The oil royalties are correct for Ireland - no-one would bother coming here to look for oil otherwise. Not one barrel of oil has been extracted yet from Irish waters, if it's such a giveaway, why is that ??? And oil is at $40 a barrel now and still falling.

The fishing thing is a fair point.

Germany is closing all it's nuclear plants in favour of Russian gas, dirty coal and unreliable renewables. The birth rate is plummeting. They are going to be the sick man of Europe soon once the Euro inevitably collapses. Look at the Greek deal - there's no way that will ever be paid back.

patjack

The Irish political system was and is and always will be rotten. The mantra is "the only crime is getting caught".

We are such a small country it's hard to envisage a reduction in the level and tolerance of corruption.

Is the UK as bad for political corruption?

foxy farmer

patjack wrote: »

The Irish political system was and is and always will be rotten. The mantra is "the only crime is getting caught".

We are such a small country it's hard to envisage a reduction in the level and tolerance of corruption.

Is the UK as bad for political corruption?

At least in the UK they put up their hands when caught and resign. Our crowd will go to court to challenge any allegations. Remember the long speech John o Donoghue gave when forced to resign. I did nothing wrong more or less. Brass neck. Irish politicians have no ethics or morals. Croneyism lobbying bribery favours conflicts of interest etc are part and parcel of politics here.

Thargor

In Ireland, Ray Burke is almost as well known as James Joyce, Samuel Beckett or the U2 singer Bono who, in his sunglasses, always looks like a pudgy fly.

A well written article by a journalist at he absolute top of their game...

Thargor

Oh yeah so lets say back at the start of the crisis we'd cancelled all contracts and invested the billions upon billions it would require to exploit anything that might be out there North Sea style, where would we be now with oil where it is? Billions upon billions in the hole with the whole world laughing at us even more.

lalababa

John O' Donoghue did nothing illegal. I would also say he did nothing wrong (immoral). I would say his expenses esp. travel could have been smaller. But, and this is a big but, the expenses that the press hounded him on were incurred when he was minister for Arts / Sports / Tourism at the absolute height of the BOOM. You can imagine how much travel is involved. More importantly the travel logistics are made by the civil service and his own assistants. He would have minimal input into logistics.
He was a political and media scapegoat. He could have handled it better however.
He was a good TD for South Kerry, a good Min. Justice, and a good Min. for Sport etc. But the sensationalist media have painted him badly to an ill informed majority. An easy target.

selectamatic

A tad extreme but that said I would hope no one is under the impression that what was done politically during the economic collapse was the absolute correct thing to do. That said it wasn't completely wrong either. What has been done since hasn't been perfect either but still it's hasn't been completely wrong. I have little faith in any political party as once power is given to them their ridiculous promises begin to come undone. The greens would be my prime example they completely sold themselves out and really have never recovered but that's what you get for going into a coalition as a minority your never going to be able to get your points across fully you really are just there to make up the numbers. Of late what angers me most is the debacle over the national children's hospital it really is shear crookedness that has placed it in beside st. James countless other much better options were available but ignored, anyone can see the major problems with using st james' but it will still go ahead why its not being built on a green site bordering the M50 is beyond me.
With regards to farming this current government are more concerned with cost reductions than any real issues, savings are being made by hammering the smallest most insignificant people as these tend to make the least noise and even if they do few listen, the disadvantaged area scheme has been renamed to allow penalizations for "ineligible" land, but the reason land like this is covered in rushes is because it is by nature "disadvantaged" however little is done to question this. why 200 people can get a single farm payment of over 100k or 200k or 300k is again beyond me a cap on such payments would surely make sense but will it be done probably not. 90% of farmers in mayo and leitrim receive less than 10 grand yet in the more affluent areas over 50% receive over 10,000. surely a farmer with more acreage on inherently better land needs less help from subsidies therefore this is where the money is being wasted not on the likes of aul tom down the road who's 10 acre farm is covered in rushes.
The oil argument has some merit but again very little yes the rights of it were sold far too cheap and arguably needlessly. Anyone however that has visions of ireland drilling its own oil and becoming the next dubai is also sorely mistaken, never before has oil been as readily available worldwide the amount of oil on tap worldwide is at an all time high and no one is interested in stock piling it either as there is simply too much available and with brint crude at $40 a barrell no new oilfields will be drilled for some time purely because there is no need (all of this is great news for us the consumer.)
I suppose what I am trying to say is yes there is corruption in Ireland yes people were "conned" but its all subjective you could pick any country and find the same amount of flaws if not more, all anyone should ever do is look out for themselves and their community the notion of being loyal to a political party is backward thinking the honorable politics from the time of Tom Clarke, pearse, collins etc.. is long gone now its all about business so your aswell off vote for the local td that wants to stand up for turf cutters or fix a road etc.. as at least they have your own community in there interests would I be too concerned about who the next taoiseach will be? No not really as things are highly unlikely to change and even if they do slightly will that impact on me greatly most certainly not, it's a somewhat selfish way of looking at politics but in my opinion its the best way to view it

kowtow

professore wrote: »

The bank guarantee was a bad decision, but what were the alternatives?

Anglo was an investment (merchant) bank and had no retail deposit base. Guaranteeing it, and thus removing the risk for which bond holders are paid, whether it was through cowardice, bravado, or most likely political vanity was an act of insanity which undermined the principles of sound money and will reverberate for generations to come.

It is notable that the political vanity trade continues to be the only free lunch in the market, as anyone buying Greek junk a few weeks back will tell you today.

kowtow

selectamatic wrote: »

too concerned about who the next taoiseach will be? No not really

I suspect the next Taoiseach, just like the present one, will be whoever the German electorate in their infinite wisdom decide to appoint.

patsy_mccabe

selectamatic wrote: »

......

Phew, that's some post. I'm off to put on the kettle. I read it later.:rolleyes:

selectamatic

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

I read it later.:rolleyes:

Roll eyes really necessary it ain't gonna take too long to read to be fair,:rolleyes: it's hard to make valid statement regarding politics without going into some depth and if you read it you can see that I'm far from one of the "looney lefties". In my view being a realist is the only way to go all this fantastical talk of revolution is generally nonsense and likewise the people who devoutly follow the traditional political parties i.e fíanna fáil and fine gael are to blinded by political loyalty to do any different, something that most certainly isn't reciprocated by their beloved parties.
I'd nearly not bother voting such is my view on the current state of politics in Ireland, however when ordinary men, women and children laid down their lives to ensure we have the privilege of voting in our own nation one could not render their sacrifices in vein by not voting.

Kristopherus

lalababa wrote: »

John O' Donoghue did nothing illegal. I would also say he did nothing wrong (immoral). I would say his expenses esp. travel could have been smaller. But, and this is a big but, the expenses that the press hounded him on were incurred when he was minister for Arts / Sports / Tourism at the absolute height of the BOOM. You can imagine how much travel is involved. More importantly the travel logistics are made by the civil service and his own assistants. He would have minimal input into logistics.
He was a political and media scapegoat. He could have handled it better however.
He was a good TD for South Kerry, a good Min. Justice, and a good Min. for Sport etc. But the sensationalist media have painted him badly to an ill informed majority. An easy target.

Is that you John??????

vincenzolorenzo

lalababa wrote: »

John O' Donoghue did nothing illegal. I would also say he did nothing wrong (immoral). I would say his expenses esp. travel could have been smaller. But, and this is a big but, the expenses that the press hounded him on were incurred when he was minister for Arts / Sports / Tourism at the absolute height of the BOOM. You can imagine how much travel is involved. More importantly the travel logistics are made by the civil service and his own assistants. He would have minimal input into logistics.
He was a political and media scapegoat. He could have handled it better however.
He was a good TD for South Kerry, a good Min. Justice, and a good Min. for Sport etc. But the sensationalist media have painted him badly to an ill informed majority. An easy target.

I thought so too at the time. He was an easy scapegoat at a time when everything in the country was going to sh1t and people needed someone to hang out to dry. There was plenty worse than him that should have been shown the door first.

And by the way I have no connection to John O'Donoghue and live a long way from his constituency so no vested interests here!

Graham

patjack wrote: »

The Irish political system was and is and always will be rotten. The mantra is "the only crime is getting caught".

We are such a small country it's hard to envisage a reduction in the level and tolerance of corruption.

Is the UK as bad for political corruption?

For 2014, Transparency International rated Ireland 17th for least perceived corrupt, the UK rated 14th, Spain 37th, Italy 69th with North Korea/Somalia joint 174th.

vincenzolorenzo

Graham wrote: »

For 2014, Transparency International rated Ireland 17th for least perceived corrupt, the UK rated 14th, Spain 37th, Italy 69th with North Korea/Somalia joint 174th.

We are far from perfect and there are plenty of issues with our political system but we're terrible for talking ourselves down. By and large our politicians are not criminals even if they do fail to deliver on election promises and frequently fall into delivering little sweeteners when an election looms but there isn't a democratic political system in any country in the world where this doesn't happen!

If our political system was suddenly replaced by North Korea's or some African countries we wouldn't be long looking for a return to what we have now!

patsy_mccabe

Ya, reality and perception are miles apart. I think a certain generation were spoiled rotten during the boom years, numerous Jobs to choose from, great pay, borrow all you like. People were coming here from all over the world - it was that good.
These are the very sane people that are voting for the like of Mick Wallace & Co.

blue5000

Graham wrote: »

For 2014, Transparency International rated Ireland 17th for least perceived corrupt, the UK rated 14th, Spain 37th, Italy 69th with North Korea/Somalia joint 174th.

The key word here is perceived. Because Ireland is a relatively small country, there are less people involved in any corruption, therefore it is a lot easier to cover up (corruption) and it looks like we are less corrupt than we are. We're just better at covering things up to give the perception of being less corrupt than we really are.

Graham

blue5000 wrote: »

The key word here is perceived. Because Ireland is a relatively small country, there are less people involved in any corruption, therefore it is a lot easier to cover up (corruption) and it looks like we are less corrupt than we are. We're just better at covering things up to give the perception of being less corrupt than we really are.

Yeah, I'm sure you're right. Those amateurs at transparency international are probably new to this whole corruption thing :rolleyes: