Advice with a claim

crazyderk

Hi all,

I'm due to hear from a claims assessor based on a small accident I was involved in a while ago. I was hoping to find out what peoples thoughts on whose at fault.

I'll be broad with who was driving what and where as the claim is open but will try and give as much detail as I can.

3 car's driving the speed limit on a road. there is a bus lane to the left.
The first car signals to turn right and slows down to stop and make their manoeuvre.
The second car slows down to come to a stop and makes no indication to overtake on the left.
The third car based on this indicates, changes into the bus lane and overtakes on the left.
The second and third car are now parallel with each other.
The second car then proceeds to overtake on the left and the two cars collide.
Damage involve are a couple of dents on both cars
Damage location drivers side car door on the third car
Damage location passenger side door on the second car

Driver of the second car claims the third car undertook dangerously.
Driver of the third car claims he was right to make the manoeuvre as there was no indication the second driver was going to undertake and the driver of the second car did not check his mirrors before proceeding into his lane.

I'd be grateful to hear on what people think on who is at fault.

ohnonotgmail

Driver 2. he changed lanes without looking. based on the information given i cannot see how driver 3 did anything dangerous. two cars ahead of him were stopped and he decided to overtake them on the left hand side which is acceptable according to the rules of the road.

db

I think the driver of the third car should have anticipated that the second car would move into the bus lane but strictly speaking the second car is at fault. If I was driving the third car I would expect the second car to come into the bus lane unless he came to a complete stop behind the first car. What I often find in similar situations is that the car behind moves into the bus lane early in an attempt to get past cars in front.

kirving

Was the bus lane active at the time? Are you allowed to enter an active bus lane in order to undertake?

FishOnABike

If the bus lane was active I think fault could be apportioned as neither car 2 or 3 should have entered the bus lane at the time.

If the bus lane was inactive I would think car 2 at fault as following traffic should have been travelling in the left most lane (the bus lane) and they changed lane without indicating or properly observing the traffic behind them. In effect they pulled into the lane across traffic already in the lane.

The position of the damage to both cars should indicate what happened.

Fuzzy Clam

I would say car 2. He or she should not have changed lanes without checking first. Even if they had indicated, they would still have been in the wrong.

Boskowski

Driver 2 clearly and unambiguously. You change a lane the onus is on you. Period.

Whether the lane was open or not doesn't matter. Car 3 could have been someone eligible to use the bus lane like a bus or a taxi. You want to change lanes you better make sure it's safe. Driver 2 is a chancer.

Boskowski

Kevin Irving wrote: »

Was the bus lane active at the time? Are you allowed to enter an active bus lane in order to undertake?

Passing a stationary car that is waiting to turn at a junction is not undertaking. Surely if you're not going to be an idiot and come to a stop in the bus lane but just use it safely to go around a stationary car it has to be allowed.

thebiglad

I agree with FishOnABike here - the location of the damages will be crucial.

Personally I would expect shared liability and dependent on how long cars had been stationary for the less will attach to the last vehicle. If they have almost just come to a stop and rear car simply skipped around car 2 then it could be 50/50.

I have seen a case in court where a Judge ruled in a case of line of slow moving traffic, car pulled out from 3 cars back to overtake the line, the car 2nd in line pulled out to also overtake (presumably no check of mirrors) and collided with the overtaking car (not totally dissimilar circumstances).

On that occasion awarded 70% against the car overtaking stating that they should have shown manners and patience in waiting their turn!

Irish cases of course do not create precedence but it certainly leads the thought process when presented with similar events.

It is not going to be a finding of 100% on either driver...

crazyderk

Thanks for the replies everyone. to clarify the damage

Damage involve are a couple of dents on both cars
Damage location is on the drivers side car door on the third car - just below the wing mirror along with a scrape of paint on the centre of the driver side.

Damage location is on the passenger side door on the second car - centre of the door where the wing mirror of the third car hit it.

to add I don't think the second car had come to a complete stop but it was slowing down to come to a stop with no indication of overtaking on the left.

The bus lane was active FYI

ohnonotgmail

crazyderk wrote: »

Thanks for the replies everyone. to clarify the damage

Damage involve are a couple of dents on both cars
Damage location is on the drivers side car door on the third car - just below the wing mirror along with a scrape of paint on the centre of the driver side.

Damage location is on the passenger side door on the second car - centre of the door where the wing mirror of the third car hit it.

to add I don't think the second car had come to a complete stop but it was slowing down to come to a stop with no indication of overtaking on the left.

The bus lane was active FYI

so the cars must have been nearly parallel when driver two pull out?

ciotog

Boskowski wrote: »

Driver 2 clearly and unambiguously. You change a lane the onus is on you. Period.

Whether the lane was open or not doesn't matter. Car 3 could have been someone eligible to use the bus lane like a bus or a taxi. You want to change lanes you better make sure it's safe. Driver 2 is a chancer.

.. or a cyclist - this type of scenario is one I encounter quite frequently while cycling. Car 2 in these scenario usually doesn't signal that they are going to pass on the left. I now assume if Car 2 isn't signalling right then a move into bus lane is imminent and proceed accordingly (i.e. very cautiously)

crazyderk

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

so the cars must have been nearly parallel when driver two pull out?

Yes they were pretty much parallel

FishOnABike

As thebiglad pointed out in his example a judge can decide pretty much anything on their personal whim. Where manners and patience take precedent over the rules of the road there seems to be simply no sense in it at times.

If the bus lane was active (i guess you mean only buses, taxis and bikes should have been using it) one judge could decide neither of you had a right to be there and simply apportion blame 50/50. Another judge could decide you were more at fault for being impatient and ill mannered. Yet another judge could decide the 2nd car to be 100% at fault as they obviously pulled into the lane without warning or looking and could just as easily have gone into the side of a bus, taxi or bike following Boskowski's logic.

If it's just between insurance companies they might just decide based on whatever is the least cost or risk to them. Agreeing between themselves to settle 50/50 rather than possibly incur higher legal costs arguing percentages out in court with no certain outcome might be the path of least resistance for them.

If you are both to blame both insurance companies can recover their loss in increased premiums and loss of no claims discount from both of you.

crazyderk

Hi all,

I heard form the claims assessor, they asked to be walked through the story once more & they say that car 3 was established in the lane and that car 2 did not check mirrors and car 2 is liable.

They want to confirm damage by photos and confirm price of repair and will give final confirmation either later this afternoon or tomorrow.

Thanks for all the input