Irish Rail - never ever EVER again!

Ardent

Apologies in advance for my rant, have to let off steam...

Currently stuck on the Dublin to Cork train. We're parked here in Bally-f*cking-brophy and will be here for the next hour or so due to "signal failure".

This is my first time getting the train in years. I was originally going to drive down to Cork but - foolish me - thought "why not get the train".

So I parted with 74 euros for the privilege of being late for my customer meetings.

Never again. Maybe I'm just really unlucky but every time I've ever taken the train in the past something like this has happened - some "locomotive issue" or "signal" problem. Never again.

I know Irish Rail is struggling financially. Privatise the whole thing I say, it's a shambles.

Aaarrrggghhhh!!

laoisfan

My understanding is that some equipment broke down on the track at Thurles in the early hours of the morning hence there is only one section of track open so they have to stagger trains in both directions through this single piece of track.

There is no way that Irish Rail could have foreseen this issue.

Put it down to bad luck.

I commute daily from Ballybrophy to Park West and the service is brilliant. Granted, when there are incidents they usually affect a lot of services.

Take a few deep breaths & relax. Nothing you can do about it.

kc56

Actually both lines were blocked so nothing moved for over an hour. They moved the machine onto one track allowing movement.

It's bad luck. I commute daily from Kildare and the serves is almost always on time.

laoisfan

Ah didn't realise both lines were blocked.

It's bad luck nothing more really.

Inconvenience...sure...but not a lot people can do about it.

syklops

laoisfan wrote: »

There is no way that Irish Rail could have foreseen this issue.

.

No, of course not. But you can have spares nearby and try to get things back online as fast as possible.

Inconvenience...sure...but not a lot people can do about it.

Aside from fix it.

laoisfan

syklops wrote: »

No, of course not. But you can have spares nearby and try to get things back online as fast as possible.

Spares for what exactly? No train broke down. A piece of heavy equipment was blocking both lines near Thurles preventing trains travelling in both directions. They managed to move it over to one line so that they could at least have some traffic albeit staggered.

Fix what exactly?

syklops

laoisfan wrote: »

Spares for what exactly? No train broke down. A piece of heavy equipment was blocking both lines near Thurles preventing trains travelling in both directions. They managed to move it over to one line so that they could at least have some traffic albeit staggered.

Fix what exactly?

:rolleyes:

loyatemu

laoisfan wrote: »

There is no way that Irish Rail could have foreseen this issue.

Put it down to bad luck.

It's their own piece of equipment that's blocking the line - it's still their fault.

pclive

You are entitled to a refund
http://www.irishrail.ie/contact-us/faqs?i=4235
Think you can ask for it in cash and not a voucher

laoisfan

loyatemu wrote: »

It's their own piece of equipment that's blocking the line - it's still their fault.

Probably a contractor's piece of equipment. But either way the responsibility is with Irish Rail.

LXFlyer

Unfortunately equipment will break down from time to time - the problem with the railway is that if that happens away from stations or locations where there are passing loops or sidings then it does cause major disruption.

You cannot simply move it over.

The railway has very strict rules. Single line working on a two track railway requires a pilotman, and that individual would have to be sourced.

Something like this will unfortunately result in delays, but one would assume that they are trying to fix this as fast as possible.

The OP certainly appears to be rather unlucky in terms of his experiences.

kc56

laoisfan wrote: »

Probably a contractor's piece of equipment. But either way the responsibility is with Irish Rail.

IE should have had a locomotive and driver idly standing by....

laoisfan

kc56 wrote: »

IE should have had a locomotive and driver idly standing by....

LOL

LorMal

lxflyer wrote: »

Unfortunately equipment will break down from time to time - the problem with the railway is that if that happens away from stations or locations where there are passing loops or sidings then it does cause major disruption.

You cannot simply move it over.

The railway has very strict rules. Single line working on a two track railway requires a pilotman, and that individual would have to be sourced.

Something like this will unfortunately result in delays, but one would assume that they are trying to fix this as fast as possible.

The OP certainly appears to be rather unlucky in terms of his experiences.

We are very forgiving and passive in this country. I lived in Holland for years. People were annoyed if the trains were more than one minute late (and they very rarely were). A highly efficient service, modern, clean and very comfortable double decker trains - very reasonably priced.
We are 50 years behind.
Keep accepting the mediocre and that's what you will get. Public services in Ireland are appalling.

kc56

LorMal wrote: »

We are very forgiving and passive in this country. I lived in Holland for years. People were annoyed if the trains were more than one minute late (and they very rarely were). A highly efficient service, modern, clean and very comfortable double decker trains - very reasonably priced.
We are 50 years behind.
Keep accepting the mediocre and that's what you will get. Public services in Ireland are appalling.

And the Dutch taxpayers make that service level happen through decent subsidies. IE has one of the lowest subsidies in Europe.

itstimefortea

I'm on the same train. Nightmare. We should have built a Japanese style monorail in the good times.

nuac

I often travel by train from Mayo to Dublin.

Service in terms of travel time and frequency has improved over the years.

I find it a very reliable service

Ardent

pclive wrote: »

You are entitled to a refund
http://www.irishrail.ie/contact-us/faqs?i=4235
Think you can ask for it in cash and not a voucher

Thanks for that. Damn right I'll be looking for a refund. Not inclined to travel with them again - are you sure you can demand cash refund?

Delayed by about an hour and a half at this stage.

foggy_lad

laoisfan wrote: »

My understanding is that some equipment broke down on the track at Thurles in the early hours of the morning hence there is only one section of track open so they have to stagger trains in both directions through this single piece of track.

There is no way that Irish Rail could have foreseen this issue.

Put it down to bad luck.

I commute daily from Ballybrophy to Park West and the service is brilliant. Granted, when there are incidents they usually affect a lot of services.

Take a few deep breaths & relax. Nothing you can do about it.

So there was nobody available to move this poorly maintained* track machine off the main line?

*poorly maintained because it should not be breaking down, and IR have a history of track machines breaking down and blocking commuter traffic!

laoisfan wrote: »

Spares for what exactly? No train broke down. A piece of heavy equipment was blocking both lines near Thurles preventing trains travelling in both directions. They managed to move it over to one line so that they could at least have some traffic albeit staggered.

Fix what exactly?

Any such machines should be accompanied on main lines by locomotives capable of hauling them away if they break down and if the machines are loco hauled there should be a 2nd loco in case the motive power unit fails.

Again IR have a history of losing money and passengers due to breakdowns of not just track machines but also freight trains which regularly block traffic on all lines!

kc56 wrote: »

IE should have had a locomotive and driver idly standing by....

Not just on standby but tagged onto the end of the track machine or double headed for loco hauled units, this might also mean a 2nd driver is not needed?

bk

kc56 wrote: »

And the Dutch taxpayers make that service level happen through decent subsidies. IE has one of the lowest subsidies in Europe.

The problem though is people aren't happy to give IE more of their hard earned tax money when they see how wastefully IE use the money they already get.

It pisses people off when they see train drivers go on strike, looking for more money because they have to drive longer trains.

Or money being pissed away on ridiculous projects like the Western Rail Corridor.

Lots of waste, little in the way of efficiency improvements. I think a lot of the general public feel that if you give IE more money, it will simply disappear down a black hole with little improvement in actual services.

And you know what, people are right. Here in Ireland we have a slightly leftish political slant and a lot of union power. A lot of socialist thinking exists, with the ideas of semi-states being a job for life, with little need for productivity improvements, innovative thinking, etc. The thinking within the CIE companies seems to often seem like staff first, customers a very distant second.

You tend not to see that sort of thinking in places like Holland and Germany, where everyone including customers and staff tend to feel like they are all part of the same community.

The Irish general public are well aware of this sort of thinking in semi-state companies and it is why the general public is slow to want to throw more money at them as the general public rightfully feels like they won't see a return for it.

That is why the general public looks to be quiet happy to throw money at Luas. The government could announce they are spending billions on opening new Luas lines and there would be hardly a whimper of complaint from the general public as they love the Luas and see it as an example of a well run, efficient and profitable public transport system.

CIE and it's companies is frankly a very damaged brand in the eyes of the general public and I would perhaps even say the government.

clunked

Funnily enough I've often been delayed on the road, crashes road works, etc. Oh Yeah, its Irish Rail's fault isn't it according to our serial IR/ BE/ DB bashers.

If the OP was in Dublin Airport waiting on a plane because of the fire this morning it would be the fault of Irish Rail too I guess in the eyes of some:rolleyes:. Lets privatise the airlines and bash the unions, oh wait.....

LorMal

We seem to be slow learners.....(Lyrics written by Percy French - 1902)

You run for the train in the morning
The excursion train starting at eight
You're there when the clock gives the warnin'
And there for an hour you'll wait
And as you're waiting in the train
You'll hear the guard sing this refrain:
Are ye right there, Michael, are ye right?
Do you think that we'll be there before the night?
Ye've been so long in startin'
That ye couldn't say for certain
Still ye might now, Michael
So ye might!

LXFlyer

syklops wrote: »

I was about to post that Ixflyer will be along shortly to defend irish rail. Turns out Im late to the party.

With respect, it's LXflyer.


I'm not defending anything - just explaining what has to happen to sort it out, which, because of the very strict rules governing the operation of the railway, is not straightforward.


It's not like a road, where you can push a broken down vehicle out of the way immediately.


Despite what people may think, there is not a railway anywhere that does not experience incidents such as this at some stage or another.


There have been several incidents across the water in recent months where trains have been delayed for 90 minutes plus due to breakdowns and signalling failures.


Of course it should not happen, and every step should be taken to avoid it happening, but occasionally things don't always go to plan.

foggy_lad

clunked wrote: »

Funnily enough I've often been delayed on the road, crashes road works, etc. Oh Yeah, its Irish Rail's fault isn't it according to our serial IR/ BE/ DB bashers.

If the OP was in Dublin Airport waiting on a plane because of the fire this morning it would be the fault of Irish Rail too I guess in the eyes of some:rolleyes:. Lets privatise the airlines and bash the unions, oh wait.....

If you are delayed on the road by unannounced road works or due to the poor condition of the roads then that is the fault of the council and if you are delayed this morning at Dublin Airport due to the fire at the airport then that is not the fault of your airline or the airport but if you were delayed because the plane was not ready or needed maintenance then blame the carrier or if the airport systems crashed you can blame DAA.

If that track machine was hit by lightening or if trees fell on the line or thieves travelling around the country steal cabling or other instances outside the control of IE then they can not be at fault but when machines used on the main lines break down they it is their fault for using those machines or those contractors!

questionmark?

74 euros for a Dublin to Cork return. I'm guessing thats Irish Rails fault because you didn't book online but choose to pay the price of a walk up fair. Damn Irish rail how dare they!

monument

syklops wrote: »

I was about to post that Ixflyer will be along shortly to defend irish rail. Turns out Im late to the party.

Focusing on posters is against the charter -- please read it before posting again.

-- moderator

EndaHonesty

Ardent wrote: »

Thanks for that. Damn right I'll be looking for a refund. Not inclined to travel with them again - are you sure you can demand cash refund?

Delayed by about an hour and a half at this stage.

I'm guessing this line gives them a "get outta jail free card"?!

"due to circumstances within the control of Iarnród Éireann"

Ardent

questionmark? wrote: »

74 euros for a Dublin to Cork return. I'm guessing thats Irish Rails fault because you didn't book online but choose to pay the price of a walk up fair. Damn Irish rail how dare they!

I did book online.

syklops

questionmark? wrote: »

74 euros for a Dublin to Cork return. I'm guessing thats Irish Rails fault because you didn't book online but choose to pay the price of a walk up fair. Damn Irish rail how dare they!

Which branch of Irish Rail do you work in?

snowgal

questionmark? wrote: »

74 euros for a Dublin to Cork return. I'm guessing thats Irish Rails fault because you didn't book online but choose to pay the price of a walk up fair. Damn Irish rail how dare they!

?? what?

Larbre34

Someone still meeting customers in person? How quaint. And unhygienic.

questionmark?

syklops wrote: »

Which branch of Irish Rail do you work in?

None. How does my post suggest otherwise.

Ardent

Now we have to change train at Mallow. It just gets better and better.

questionmark?

snowgal wrote: »

?? what?

Sarcasm! OP was a joke having a go at the price and Irish Rail. I'm not allowed to do the same back??

questionmark?

Ardent wrote: »

I did book online.

First class? I have never paid close to that price for a Dublin to Cork trip. Seemed like a walk up price.

dutopia

Ardent wrote: »

Apologies in advance for my rant, have to let off steam...

Currently stuck on the Dublin to Cork train. We're parked here in Bally-f*cking-brophy and will be here for the next hour or so due to "signal failure".

This is my first time getting the train in years. I was originally going to drive down to Cork but - foolish me - thought "why not get the train".

So I parted with 74 euros for the privilege of being late for my customer meetings.

Never again. Maybe I'm just really unlucky but every time I've ever taken the train in the past something like this has happened - some "locomotive issue" or "signal" problem. Never again.

I know Irish Rail is struggling financially. Privatise the whole thing I say, it's a shambles.

Aaarrrggghhhh!!

I totally feel your frustration. I see a signal failure almost every week on my commute from North Co. Dublin to the city centre. I'd never use the train to go to other parts of the country when I have a car.

syklops

questionmark? wrote: »

None. How does my post suggest otherwise.

Defending the indefensible. Or having a go at the OP for a perfectly legitimate complaint.

Ardent

questionmark? wrote: »

First class? I have never paid close to that price for a Dublin to Cork trip. Seemed like a walk up price.

No, not first class.

Would have been cheaper and faster to drive. I'll know for next time.

dutopia

clunked wrote: »

Funnily enough I've often been delayed on the road, crashes road works, etc. Oh Yeah, its Irish Rail's fault isn't it according to our serial IR/ BE/ DB bashers.

If the OP was in Dublin Airport waiting on a plane because of the fire this morning it would be the fault of Irish Rail too I guess in the eyes of some:rolleyes:. Lets privatise the airlines and bash the unions, oh wait.....

It's all too easy to dismiss people's complaints/frustrations as simply people 'serial bashing'. I also agree there is a little bit of a cultural thing in Ireland were we are more likely to forgive public service failures and just say 'Ah sure it's grand'. I say, we should demand better standards where we see failure, especially as Ireland is becoming more of a faster paced economy. If you ever experience living in some other countries in Europe or Asia, the public expects a very high standard of public transport and they mostly get it. We are a smaller nation than most countries, yes, but why can't we expect a smaller, efficient, safe and reliable public transport system?

Subpopulus

itstimefortea wrote: »

We should have built a Japanese style monorail in the good times.

What is with people's obsession with building monorails? Like they're some sort of magical panacea to all our transport ills...

syklops

Subpopulus wrote: »

What is with people's obsession with building monorails? Like they're some sort of magical panacea to all our transport ills...

We should have let the chinese build the underground they offered us. That would free up funding for irish Rail and heavy stuff moving equipment.

questionmark?

syklops wrote: »

Defending the indefensible. Or having a go at the OP for a perfectly legitimate complaint.

Legitimate depends solely on your point of view. I like many others on here are sick of public service bashing just for the sake of it and no I dont work in the public sector. Breakdowns happen in every transport company in the world. I was having a go at the post not the OP themselves.

end of the road

Ardent wrote: »

Privatise the whole thing I say

yes, because with perfect privatization nothing ever happens. signals don't break down, trains don't break down, trains never run late, oh, wait. i'm seriously getting sick to my back teeth of this "privatize it rabel rabel" nonsense every time something small happens or something breaks down. things break down, its annoying but it will happen whoever runs it.

syklops

questionmark? wrote: »

Legitimate depends solely on your point of view. I like many others on here are sick of public service bashing just for the sake of it and no I dont work in the public sector. Breakdowns happen in every transport company in the world. I was having a go at the post not the OP themselves.

OP = Opening Post.

People bash public services because many of them are crap. People lying on trolleys waiting to be admitted. I have some A&E horrors stories to tell. Publicly owned buses that disappear from their route leaving you waiting. The commuter rail network grinding to a halt on a weekday.

Michael D Not Higgins

questionmark? wrote: »

74 euros for a Dublin to Cork return. I'm guessing thats Irish Rails fault because you didn't book online but choose to pay the price of a walk up fair. Damn Irish rail how dare they!

It's the price for booking same week. Book for next week and it's €40 return.

end of the road

bk wrote: »

The problem though is people aren't happy to give IE more of their hard earned tax money when they see how wastefully IE use the money they already get.

well, they pay for what they get so. if they don't want to give the railway more subsidy, then they have to accept a low service. just look back at the history of BR and the subsiquent privatization. i've no reason to think this country isn't similar apart from the innovation that BR did do.

bk wrote: »

It pisses people off when they see train drivers go on strike, looking for more money because they have to drive longer trains.

no, it pisses people off that workers have the opportunity to be able to change their situation and dare to do it, when the rest don't. in short, begrudgery

bk wrote: »

Or money being pissed away on ridiculous projects like the Western Rail Corridor.

IE didn't want the western rail corridor i thought?

bk wrote: »

Lots of waste, little in the way of efficiency improvements.

the railway is as efficient as it can be without a huge upgrade of the lines, dealing with any issues with formations that could allow higher speeds where possible. putting in passing loops to allow more services or help when there are delays. keeping the lops we have got (a few have been taken out in the past few years) . but if the general public don't want to give more money, this can't happen, so they have to accept it. while i want to see things improved, people have to actually want to spend on improving. if they don't, then it won't get done.

bk wrote: »

I think a lot of the general public feel that if you give IE more money, it will simply disappear down a black hole with little improvement in actual services.

well, if the NTA monitor where the money goes as is their job IMO, then that shouldn't be a worry.

bk wrote: »

you know what, people are right. Here in Ireland we have a slightly leftish political slant and a lot of union power.

union power is good. i feel safe with it around TBH.

bk wrote: »

A lot of socialist thinking exists, with the ideas of semi-states being a job for life, with little need for productivity improvements, innovative thinking, etc.

what innovative thinking would you like? isn't the NTA deciding everything now in terms of transport? so if there is any innovation it will come from them?

bk wrote: »

The Irish general public are well aware of this sort of thinking in semi-state companies and it is why the general public is slow to want to throw more money at them as the general public rightfully feels like they won't see a return for it.

well the general public can only take what they get then. i don't like it and i believe any money spent should be monitored, but if one isn't willing to give more money to ensure improvements in a service or call for the relevant people to ensure the money is spent properly its not going to work or happen.

bk wrote: »

That is why the general public looks to be quiet happy to throw money at Luas.

well, more fool them. luas while its a grand service doesn't offer what an underground metro or heavy rail could offer. its slow, gets delayed by having to stop at traffic lights, it won't get traffic priority like it should, and going forward i'm not sure it can handle capacity should there be major growth long term.

bk wrote: »

The government could announce they are spending billions on opening new Luas lines and there would be hardly a whimper of complaint from the general public

thats the problem. throwing billions at a light rail system that uses road space, will continue to have to stop at traffic lights, and is stopping us from having better because the government think its an answer for everything when it isn't. so as a member of the general public, i will be whimpering about it because going forward i don't believe it to be the answer to rail transport in general for dublin apart from some areas unlikely to see growth but which require more then a bus.

bk wrote: »

they love the Luas and see it as an example of a well run, efficient and profitable public transport system.

how is it efficient when it runs over ground, gets stuck at traffic lights, is slower then it could have been if put under ground? of course its proffitable when it has the population to support it. i'm not sure what is "well run" about it when it just goes from 1 place to another and back. the customer service aspect is good but the NTA could ensure that for all companies tomorrow if its not doing so all ready. of course people love it because its easier and handier then the bus

cython

syklops wrote: »

OP = Opening Post.

People bash public services because many of them are crap. People lying on trolleys waiting to be admitted. I have some A&E horrors stories to tell. Publicly owned buses that disappear from their route leaving you waiting. The commuter rail network grinding to a halt on a weekday.

I think more people use it to mean Original Poster, in which case having a go "at the OP" would be more like a personal attack on them, rather than the point being made, while the poster here was actually doing the latter.

end of the road

foggy_lad wrote: »

If you are delayed on the road by unannounced road works or due to the poor condition of the roads then that is the fault of the council and if you are delayed this morning at Dublin Airport due to the fire at the airport then that is not the fault of your airline or the airport but if you were delayed because the plane was not ready or needed maintenance then blame the carrier or if the airport systems crashed you can blame DAA.

If that track machine was hit by lightening or if trees fell on the line or thieves travelling around the country steal cabling or other instances outside the control of IE then they can not be at fault but when machines used on the main lines break down they it is their fault for using those machines or those contractors!

well unless IE know there is something wrong with the machine and use anyway how is it their fault? things can develop faults suddenly.

end of the road

Ardent wrote: »

Now we have to change train at Mallow. It just gets better and better.

your going to tralee? were you not told on the website when you booked that you would have to change trains? changing trains is the norm on this service unfortunately apart from a couple of direct services. same for limerick. hopefully when things pick up direct trains will return but i wouldn't hold my breathe.

foggy_lad

end of the road wrote: »

well unless IE know there is something wrong with the machine and use anyway how is it their fault? things can develop faults suddenly.

Indeed things can and often do just happen but how the company deals with the issue is the responsibility of the company!

If they had two locomotives and mechanic for every freight train there would not be so many delays due to freight trains blocking peak time mainline operations!

Jamie2k9

Not sure what equipment failed but a crane was require to lift and remove it from the line which didn't arrive until after 10.00.

To be honest I don't think the delays were that bad, if they were so proactive with single line running when you have your standard failure the public would be delighted with 1.5 hours delays and not over 3 hours.....