Dublin Bus using M50

Hammer15

Hey,

Something that's been bothering me for awhile now as I see it on a daily basis;

Dublin Bus vehicles using the M50 crawling along at 65-70km/h causing a tailback behind them. Surely this isn't safe for them and other road users.

I understand that these vehicles may be limited to this speed for safety reasons, but at the same time it's putting others at risk by causing vehicles to take evasive action as they approach because their going so slow.

oppenheimer1

It's not as if double decker buses are invisible and then suddenly pop out of nowhere.

DB buses are speed limited so they can't go any faster however they are just as entitled to the road as you. Drive with due care and attention and you won't have any problems.

coylemj

Hammer15 wrote: »

.... it's putting others at risk by causing vehicles to take evasive action as they approach because their going so slow.

When do they need to take 'evasive action'? If it's when they come up behind the bus then they need to get their vision examined. With proper eyesight and intelligent judgement, you should be able to make the appropriate decisions about 2 kms before you reach the bus. It's the old dear in the Yaris doing a constant 60 kph in the middle lane that you need to be worrying about, not a large vehicle like a bus that you can literally see from miles away.

Carawaystick

Wait til schools are back next week and 65kmh will seem like a great speed to travel at...
Vehicles using motorway only have to be able to travel faster than 50kmh.
Drivers using a motorway have to be tested and found competent*


*unless they were head of the road safety authority and just bought a license instead of passing a test like.

AlekSmart

Hammer15 wrote: »

Hey,

Something that's been bothering me for awhile now as I see it on a daily basis;

Dublin Bus vehicles using the M50 crawling along at 65-70km/h causing a tailback behind them. Surely this isn't safe for them and other road users.

I understand that these vehicles may be limited to this speed for safety reasons, but at the same time it's putting others at risk by causing vehicles to take evasive action as they approach because their going so slow.

No law being broken by the Bus using the Motorway.

65 Kmph is the maximum limit for a Large Public Service Vehicle which has provision for standing passengers.

All posted Speed Limits are just that,Limits,rather than targets which must be met.
In the case of Motorways,vehicles must be capable of,but not restricted to,maintaining a Minimum speed of 50 Kmph.

It might be worth reviewing the use of the term "Evasive Action" which could infer a certain lack of awareness on the part of the following driver,which would indicate the only one "Putting others at risk" is the driver taking evasive action in non-emergency situation.

As both a Busdriver and a regular M50 user,I would suggest making full use of forward observations and planning plus the remaining 2 lanes,to overtake in a safe & controlled manner before moving back into the appropriate driving lane.

The M50 represents a very clear example of our National lack of forward planning in traffic management terms,however it is drivers rather than vehicle types who are responsible for safety.

Jamie2k9

I understand that these vehicles may be limited to this speed for safety reasons, but at the same time it's putting others at risk by causing vehicles to take evasive action as they approach because their going so slow.

Not as risky as the utter incompetence of the majority of Irish road users who cannot use a 2 lane motorway never mind a 3 lane like the M50/N7.

They are the ones that have a lot to answer for slowing people down and causing long tailback.

cgcsb

OP, why not just overtake said bus?

Hilly Bill

Maybe it wasnt the number he wanted .

Hammer15

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

It's not as if double decker buses are invisible and then suddenly pop out of nowhere.

DB buses are speed limited so they can't go any faster however they are just as entitled to the road as you. Drive with due care and attention and you won't have any problems.

I fully agree with you regarding its fully visible, but I have to ask, on a road that most vehicles if not all are travelling withing the 85-100km/h range, travelling below 66kmh is dangerous IMO.

I never said it was me that had a problem, it's merely an observation that I'm witnessing on a daily basis.

Hammer15

coylemj wrote: »

When do they need to take 'evasive action'? If it's when they come up behind the bus then they need to get their vision examined. With proper eyesight and intelligent judgement, you should be able to make the appropriate decisions about 2 kms before you reach the bus. It's the old dear in the Yaris doing a constant 60 kph in the middle lane that you need to be worrying about, not a large vehicle like a bus that you can literally see from miles away.

Evasive action maybe wasn't the correct term to use here - lets just say all traffic is travelling around the speed limit and then suddenly a que of traffic caused by said vehicle driving less than 66kmph. It's well known on the m50 that drivers jam on when faced with a que, causing a domino effect of brake lights for a kilometre behind said que.

All this for no reason except a large passenger vehicle which again IMO is causing an obstruction in lane one. It's like having a tractor on the motorway. It's bad enough on there without this carry on. What's the difference here with a bus rather than an old dear in her Yaris? Both travelling at unacceptable and unsafe speed for this road.

Again, not a problem for me per se, but other drivers which I see everyday.

Hammer15

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Not as risky as the utter incompetence of the majority of Irish road users who cannot use a 2 lane motorway never mind a 3 lane like the M50/N7.

They are the ones that have a lot to answer for slowing people down and causing long tailback.

Fully agree here too. Lane 3 should be empty most of the time and only used for overtaking. Very rarely enforced here unlike the UK.

markpb

Hammer15 wrote: »

on a road that most vehicles if not all are travelling withing the 85-100km/h range

If only

Carawaystick

Carawaystick wrote: »

Wait til schools are back next week and 65kmh will seem like a great speed to travel at...

Ah, no need to wait any longer...

Could be worse OP, could be a bus in the middle lane of a 120kmh motorway like the 41X this morning.

the groutch

Hammer15 wrote: »

on a road that most vehicles if not all are travelling withing the 85-100km/h range, travelling below 66kmh is dangerous IMO.

Hammer15 wrote: »

All this for no reason except a large passenger vehicle which again IMO is causing an obstruction in lane one........Both travelling at unacceptable and unsafe speed for this road.

then why isn't the legal minimum speed 70kmph rather than 50?
maybe because it isn't actually dangerous and certain drivers are overly impatient, or inept at overtaking.

Carawaystick

There's no legal minimum speed, there's just a minimum, maximum speed of vehicles to use the motorway. i.e. the maximum speed of vehicles has to be >= 50kmh

If there was a minimum speed, sher how would you stop at traffic lights on a motorway?

end of the road

Hammer15 wrote: »

on a road that most vehicles if not all are travelling withing the 85-100km/h range, travelling below 66kmh is dangerous IMO.

the relevant road legislation says otherwise, so no it isn't

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

foggy_lad

Hammer15 wrote: »

Hey,

Something that's been bothering me for awhile now as I see it on a daily basis;

Dublin Bus vehicles using the M50 crawling along at 65-70km/h causing a tailback behind them. Surely this isn't safe for them and other road users.

I understand that these vehicles may be limited to this speed for safety reasons, but at the same time it's putting others at risk by causing vehicles to take evasive action as they approach because their going so slow.

These slower vehicles are putting nobody at any increased risk!

It is people who consider themselves "better" drivers and who feel the laws of physics shouldn't or simply don't apply to them that put all other road users at risk whether they be riding up the back end of other cars on the motorway or making dangerous overtaking manoeuvres on national primary and trunk roads, and all because they are too thick to wait behind a vehicle they consider is not worthy of being in front of them.

IMO the road warriors who go around pointing out the mistakes of others are no better than the inconsiderate impatient numpties who tailgate and are always trying to get ahead!


Basically the problem is not with the slow speed of vehicle in front but it is the lack of care and attention and often high speed of the vehicle that approaches from behind that causes crashes!

Rackstar

Convinced Boards are creating these threads to troll users and get more people posting and reading, me included.

RustyNut

Hammer15 wrote: »

All this for no reason except a large passenger vehicle which again IMO is causing an obstruction in lane one. It's like having a tractor on the motorway. It's bad enough on there without this carry on. What's the difference here with a bus rather than an old dear in her Yaris? Both travelling at unacceptable and unsafe speed for this road.

A bus travelling in lane 1 of a motorway at 60+kph is not an obstruction its traffic.

GTE

Hammer15 wrote: »

travelling below 66kmh is dangerous IMO.

That argument for regular sized vehicles is reasonable, as the closing speeds vs. viability can cause problems.

That said, to make that point with a bus as the basis, really makes very little sense. There is so much else wrong with driving in Ireland that I would be thoroughly disappointed in people who seriously see this as a problem.

foggy_lad

bbk wrote: »

That argument for regular sized vehicles is reasonable, as the closing speeds vs. viability can cause problems.

That said, to make that point with a bus as the basis, really makes very little sense. There is so much else wrong with driving in Ireland that I would be thoroughly disappointed in people who seriously see this as a problem.

No it is not reasonable! you are supposed to be awake and alert on all roads, setting the cruise control does not mean 40winks for the driver!

If you have any issue at all in seeing a car ahead that is travelling at 50kph and slowing down before you hit it regardless of your initial speed then you need to be stopped from driving as you are a menace on any road!

Muahahaha

Rackstar wrote: »

Convinced Boards are creating these threads to troll users and get more people posting and reading, me included.

You should see sister site thejournal.ie ,read the comments section where one half of people use their real name and the other half use fake names to troll the first half.

Anyway just wondering, I presume modren tractors and JCB's can reach 65kph- do they ever use the m50 much? I've seen tractors on the M4 a few times, but never on the m50

Sn@kebite

Those pesky bus drivers following the rules of the road!

If only they used the M50 like the yellow school buses do on drag racing strips. I'd take the bus meself!

Seriously, who is more likely to be a danger to you/I on the roads; a bus, or these boy racers with their blue lights under the cars, using the m50 as a race track. We have to put up with it, it's the only way buses can be safe, they can't stop like a car can if they are going 100kph.

GTE

foggy_lad wrote: »

No it is not reasonable! you are supposed to be awake and alert on all roads, setting the cruise control does not mean 40winks for the driver!

Nah, I can not take you seriously there. Cruise control this, 40 winks that.

What my point is, thanks for asking me to explain, is that regular sized vehicles (car) which drive slower are more difficult to notice than large ones (bus) in any given situation on an empty road. This difficulty is not significant, which I would assume you agree with.

The significant difficult arises when the road gets busier. Other cars and vans can simply block the field of vision enough to mask the slow moving car; and, someone elses bad or lack of reaction to a slow moving car can cause some issues for everyone else.

The main point of my post is that it is surprising that the OP would use vehicles like buses as an example of danger on roads like the M50 due to their speed. They are easiest to spot and judge the speed of for visual perception and driving know-how reasons.

Anyway, I am not sure why you felt it necessary to imply that I use or support the use of cruise control as an opportunity to sleep at the wheel or that I am a menace on the roads for saying buses are the easiest vehicle to judge the speed of. Very disappointing. :rolleyes:

foggy_lad

If a van or lorry you are following changes lane and reveals a slower moving car in front and you have trouble adjusting your speed to avoid crashing into the back of that vehicle then you are both too fast and too close to that vehicle!

A vehicle must not be driven at a speed exceeding that which will enable its driver to bring it to a halt within a distance the driver can see to be clear.

micraX

Muahahaha wrote: »

You should see sister site thejournal.ie ,read the comments section where one half of people use their real name and the other half use fake names to troll the first half.

Anyway just wondering, I presume modren tractors and JCB's can reach 65kph- do they ever use the m50 much? I've seen tractors on the M4 a few times, but never on the m50

Yeah tractors use it, I know loads of people that have, once your over 50k your grand. I've been up and down m1 loads of times myself

The J Stands for Jay

Carawaystick wrote: »

There's no legal minimum speed, there's just a minimum, maximum speed of vehicles to use the motorway. i.e. the maximum speed of vehicles has to be >= 50kmh

If there was a minimum speed, sher how would you stop at traffic lights on a motorway?

Motorways don't have traffic lights.

micraX

McGaggs wrote: »

Motorways don't have traffic lights.

Port tunnel does and thats technically part of m50

The J Stands for Jay

micraX wrote: »

Port tunnel does and thats technically part of m50

Tunnels have additional rules. Where are the traffic lights in the Port Tunnel?

L1011

McGaggs wrote: »

Tunnels have additional rules. Where are the traffic lights in the Port Tunnel?

Before entry and constantly within

Carawaystick

McGaggs wrote: »

Motorways don't have traffic lights.

Yes they do
https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.4278413,-6.2161775,3a,75y,144.38h,97.91t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sm7f9iRTyjib9S-EICVyUSg!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo1.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3Dm7f9iRTyjib9S-EICVyUSg%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D76.357262%26pitch%3D0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en


https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.3983737,-6.2383722,3a,75y,359.22h,91.72t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s6kEubKkgAoqJINCfQlUm4Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

Carawaystick

McGaggs wrote: »

Motorways don't have traffic lights.

Yes they do

https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.4278413,-6.2161775,3a,75y,144.38h,97.91t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sm7f9iRTyjib9S-EICVyUSg!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo1.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3Dm7f9iRTyjib9S-EICVyUSg%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D76.357262%26pitch%3D0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

Hammer15

RustyNut wrote: »

A bus travelling in lane 1 of a motorway at 60+kph is not an obstruction its traffic.

Yes it is, and it's max speed is 65.

Anything travelling in lane one at this speed is dangerous and an obstruction.

Carawaystick

Hammer15 wrote: »

Anything travelling in lane one at this speed is dangerous and an obstruction.

How is it Dangerous? is it that it might crash into something?

cdebru

Carawaystick wrote: »

How is it Dangerous? is it that it might crash into something?

It could only be a danger to someone who isn't paying attention to the other traffic on the road.

GTE

Hammer15 wrote: »

Yes it is, and it's max speed is 65.

Anything travelling in lane one at this speed is dangerous and an obstruction.

Does it block the other two lanes, or something?

rp

How about making the LH lane of the M50 a bus lane all the way around? It'd have to loose its 'M' status, but it could result in the road carrying more people per hour, and might, just might, save someone from driving into the back-end of a bus.

Dravokivich

Hammer15 wrote: »

Yes it is, and it's max speed is 65.

Anything travelling in lane one at this speed is dangerous and an obstruction.

An obstruction would be something preventing you from over taking safely.

savagethegoat

it's a bit dangerous really because great big blue and yellow double deckers are hard to spot.

dublinman1990

One thing I will mention about driving on motorways is that a bus or a private coach should not be affected from an accident caused by boy racers because of having a N or L plate sticker on their car.

If an N or L plate is present on their car they would be breaching the current Road Traffic Act for being on a motorway because legally they are not allowed to use it in the first place even when they get their provisional licence. I don't know how many times boy racers are being tested for motorway driving annually and fail every time because of having a higher risk being incompetent when behind the wheel.

And I am mentioning that point as someone who doesn't even drive a car because I myself cannot even afford to own one.

micraX

dublinman1990 wrote: »

One thing I will mention about driving on motorways is that a bus or a private coach should not be affected from an accident caused by boy racers because of having a N or L plate sticker on their car.

If an N or L plate is present on their car they would be breaching the current Road Traffic Act for being on a motorway because legally they are not allowed to use it in the first place even when they get their provisional licence. I don't even know how many times boy racers are being tested for motorway driving annually and fail every time because of having a higher risk being incompetent of being behind the wheel of said car.

And I am mentioning that point as someone who doesn't even drive a car because I myself cannot even afford to own one.

An N driver can drive on a motorway..

RustyNut

dublinman1990 wrote: »

If an N or L plate is present on their car they would be breaching the current Road Traffic Act for being on a motorway because legally they are not allowed to use it in the first place even when they get their provisional licence. I don't even know how many times boy racers are being tested for motorway driving annually and fail every time because of having a higher risk being incompetent of being behind the wheel of said car.