Breaking: NK shells SK western border

Streetwalker

With tensions at a very high level on the Korean border at present one would hope this situation doesn't worsen and cool heads can prevail.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-34001126

Mr Freeze

Is this fairly common there? or is it rare that they shell each other?

The Highwayman

Just read the story! Is the fact they have ordered evacuations a real fear in escalation of hostilitys?

Streetwalker

Mr Freeze wrote: »

Is this fairly common there? or is it rare that they shell each other?

I know gunfire has been exchanged before not sure about shelling. Not good either way

Elmer Blooker

most people don't realise that north and south Korea are still at war as the 1950-53 conflict ended in stalemate without neither side coming to any agreement.

endacl

Dem Koreeens be cray cray.

Fallschirmjager

well not to get all technical...all they have in place since the korean war is an armistice..a perpetual ceasefire on the 38th parallel.

they wounded 2 south korean soldiers with mines about 2 weeks ago. this does tend to happen, the shelled an island when the son took over in NK a few years back and sank a SK boat a few years before that. the problem is its not good. Seoul is within artillery range of NK...so if it escalates it will get real nasty real fast.

there is about 20,000 US Marines stationed on the border also

That's a lot of shots for one loud speaker.

Streetwalker

Fallschirmjager wrote: »

well not to get all technical...all they have in place since the korean war is an armistice..a perpetual ceasefire on the 38th parallel.

they wounded 2 south korean soldiers with mines about 2 weeks ago. this does tend to happen, the shelled an island when the son took over in NK a few years back and sank a SK boat a few years before that. the problem is its not good. Seoul is within artillery range of NK...so if it escalates it will get real nasty real fast.

there is about 20,000 US Marines stationed on the border also

That's why I hope to god it doesn't get out of hand because one nuke on a rocket would be in Seoul in minutes if it did. I wonder if the south have patriot style defence systems one would imagine they do with 20k marines in country.

padd b1975

If I know anything about North Korea, we're probably talking sea shells here.

fleet_admiral

North Korea is best Korea

Menas

Streetwalker wrote: »

That's why I hope to god it doesn't get out of hand because one nuke on a rocket would be in Seoul in minutes if it did. I wonder if the south have patriot style defence systems one would imagine they do with 20k marines in country.

This. And the potential to drag China and the US in to a conflict that could have no winners. Not to mention Mr Putin...

TerrorFirmer

This happens frequently enough. It's always NK that starts it, SK retaliates. A good few people were killed a few years ago when NK shelled an Island.

The ROK is far more advanced than NK though, in an actual war or sustained conflict North Korea would come off extremely badly.

Streetwalker

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

This happens frequently enough. It's always NK that starts it, SK retaliates. A good few people were killed a few years ago when NK shelled an Island.

The ROK is far more advanced than NK though, in an actual war or sustained conflict North Korea would come off extremely badly.

And that isn't a good thing. NK have millions of troops who are brainwashed and will be lambs to the slaughter. Wish someone would just send a missile to take out fat Kim he is a gimp of enormous proportions.

the evasion_kid

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

This happens frequently enough. It's always NK that starts it, SK retaliates. A good few people were killed a few years ago when NK shelled an Island.

The ROK is far more advanced than NK though, in an actual war or sustained conflict North Korea would come off extremely badly.

I dunno about that shur didn't they land a man on the sun there a while ago,plus they came up with a cure for Ebola,AIDS and mers

Fallschirmjager

the evasion_kid wrote: »

I dunno about that shur didn't they land a man on the sun there a while ago,plus they came up with a cure for Ebola,AIDS and mers

dont forget the unicorns...the found the cave they came from...very important discovery....

c_man

It's hardly that big a deal compared to some of their more recent actions tbh.

iguana

Don't forget all the underground tunnels in NK that may or may not be full of zombies.

Nodin

If a shell crosses the north Korean border, does it land twenty minutes later than just before it crossed?

the evasion_kid

Fallschirmjager wrote: »

dont forget the unicorns...the found the cave they came from...very important discovery....

Not to mention beating Portugal to lift the world cup, and reportedly Kim jong-il first picked up a golf club in 1994, and shot a 38-under par round that included no fewer than 11 holes in one. Satisfied with his performance, he immediately declared his retirement from the sport......they are some winkles altogether!

BuilderPlumber

Streetwalker wrote: »

And that isn't a good thing. NK have millions of troops who are brainwashed and will be lambs to the slaughter. Wish someone would just send a missile to take out fat Kim he is a gimp of enormous proportions.

The Kim regime is arguably the worst regime in power at present. Unlike other dictatorships, there has been thus far no attempt whatsoever to reform or improve relations with other countries or to improve the economy. This far, there have been many executions resulting from internal feuds at the very top. Unlike when Kim Jong Il took power and made attempts in 1994 to appear more moderate than Kim Il Sung, Kim Jong Un if anything has reversed any moderation his father initiated.

BUT is Kim the boss or the figurehead for a hardline military that needs to be on a war footing to survive? Perhaps a bit of the 2. Like many dictatorships, this regime needs real and imagined threats to survive and to justify a tight control of the population and the country's resources. Any dissidents in the country and within the regime and any attempt to reform from within the regime can be put down to South Korean plots and the like and stamped out so as to allow Kim and his buddies to stay in power.

The_Valeyard

iguana wrote: »

Don't forget all the underground tunnels in NK that may or may not be full of zombies.

They solved that problem by removing all the teeth of citizens.

Sunnyisland

"It's starting to get serious – China has warned North Korea about starting a war. China told them flat out, 'Do not fire any missiles at the United States at least until after we get our money. They owe us $16 trillion. Wait until then.'" –Jay Leno

suicide_circus

I think you're all forgetting that North Korea is best Korea.

BoJack Horseman

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

The ROK is far more advanced than NK though, in an actual war or sustained conflict North Korea would come off extremely badly.

Wouldn't be so sure.

Quantity has a quality of its own.

And SK is militarily pretty lethargic, with Uncle Sam there, they've been tardy with their own defence, to the annoyance of the US.

Cienciano

the evasion_kid wrote: »

Not to mention beating Portugal to lift the world cup, and reportedly Kim jong-il first picked up a golf club in 1994, and shot a 38-under par round that included no fewer than 11 holes in one. Satisfied with his performance, he immediately declared his retirement from the sport......they are some winkles altogether!

But imagine living somewhere where you're afraid to laugh at that because even your family member might turn you in. Now imagine you're 50 and lived your entire lift like that. Bizarre

Iwasfrozen

Streetwalker wrote: »

That's why I hope to god it doesn't get out of hand because one nuke on a rocket would be in Seoul in minutes if it did. I wonder if the south have patriot style defence systems one would imagine they do with 20k marines in country.

Useless at that range. No defence system could save them.

the evasion_kid

Cienciano wrote: »

But imagine living somewhere where you're afraid to laugh at that because even your family member might turn you in. Now imagine you're 50 and lived your entire lift like that. Bizarre

I think seeing this a few years ago made me realise how messed up the place is.....except for old dude at 1.20...he looks as if he's having a right laugh altogether :pac:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccsNr9UJeVY

Capt'n Midnight

North Korea has a GDP of €40Bn , and that's the purchasing power parity figure as in downhill with the wind behind you.

Compare to

South Korea will increase its defense spending by over $200 billion over the next five years.

And the South has twice the population. And the North has logistical problems like feeding it's people. It's more sabre rattling.

DeadHand

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Wouldn't be so sure.

Quantity has a quality of its own.

And SK is militarily pretty lethargic, with Uncle Sam there, they've been tardy with their own defence, to the annoyance of the US.

Aye, I wouldn't dismiss the threat NK poses so easily either. Their army is antiquated but massive and fanatical. They could never win but could cause massive damage before being defeated.

Ulysses Gaze

the evasion_kid wrote: »

I dunno about that shur didn't they land a man on the sun there a while ago,plus they came up with a cure for Ebola,AIDS and mers

Sure the current Dear Leader not only inspired Elvis's hairstyle, he also taught him how to play karate.

Son Of A Vidic

Mr Freeze wrote: »

Is this fairly common there?

Common enough and it usually starts over a disputed soccer result. On Tuesday last, North Korea announced they had beaten Germany in the World Cup final. Kim Jong-un captained the team and scored 15 hat-tricks in the final, as they went on to win 95 - 0.

On Wednesday, the South Korean media disputed this result and claimed Kim Jong-un only scored 11 hat-ricks in the final. An angry Kim, then ordered the shelling of the south to show his disapproval.

Thrill

North Korean president orders frontline troops to be in state of war from Friday

North Korean leader Kim Jong Un ordered his frontline troops onto a war-footing from Friday afternoon, as military tensions with South Korea soared following a rare exchange of artillery shells across their heavily fortified border.

The KPA followed up with an ultimatum sent via military hotline that gave the South 48 hours to dismantle loudspeakers blasting propaganda messages across the border or face further military action.

The ultimatum expires on Saturday at 5.00pm.

http://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/north-korean-president-orders-frontline-troops-to-be-in-state-of-war-from-friday

More bluster (probably)

DetroitSpinR

Streetwalker wrote: »

With tensions at a very high level on the Korean border at present one would hope this situation doesn't worsen and cool heads can prevail.

Is that photo of the real barrage sent back by South Korean artillery men?

DetroitSpinR

Fallschirmjager wrote: »

well not to get all technical...all they have in place since the korean war is an armistice..a perpetual ceasefire on the 38th parallel.

they wounded 2 south korean soldiers with mines about 2 weeks ago. this does tend to happen, the shelled an island when the son took over in NK a few years back and sank a SK boat a few years before that. the problem is its not good. Seoul is within artillery range of NK...so if it escalates it will get real nasty real fast.

there is about 20,000 US Marines stationed on the border also

Is Seoul really within shelling distance?
Probably not even worth the bother anyway since the DPRK can launch conventional warheads (and now nuclear) that could reach Pusan in minutes.

Kinda like saying "I should be worried about Joe's ability to be able to punch me because he has a long arm......when all the while he has a cabinet of rifles too"

DetroitSpinR

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

The Kim regime is arguably the worst regime in power at present. Unlike other dictatorships, there has been thus far no attempt whatsoever to reform or improve relations with other countries or to improve the economy. This far, there have been many executions resulting from internal feuds at the very top. Unlike when Kim Jong Il took power and made attempts in 1994 to appear more moderate than Kim Il Sung, Kim Jong Un if anything has reversed any moderation his father initiated.

BUT is Kim the boss or the figurehead for a hardline military that needs to be on a war footing to survive? Perhaps a bit of the 2. Like many dictatorships, this regime needs real and imagined threats to survive and to justify a tight control of the population and the country's resources. Any dissidents in the country and within the regime and any attempt to reform from within the regime can be put down to South Korean plots and the like and stamped out so as to allow Kim and his buddies to stay in power.

I dunno.

I think I'd prefer to be gay, a woman or have a desire for alcohol and live in DPRK than in Saudi Arabia.
If I cheated on my wife or stole something or was accused of such I think I'd prefer the punishment meted out to me in NK than SA.

DetroitSpinR

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Wouldn't be so sure.

Quantity has a quality of its own.

And SK is militarily pretty lethargic, with Uncle Sam there, they've been tardy with their own defence, to the annoyance of the US.

Why doesn't the US just invade North Korea?

The Randy Riverbeast

DetroitSpinR wrote: »

Why doesn't the US just invade North Korea?

China. They dont want the US on their border. Then South Korea and China will have to clean up the mess.

NK is like the guy who says he'll bust your face in as he walks away. Lots of threats but little action.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

If it's anything like the North Korean threats in 2013 when I had just moved there, the majority of South Koreans couldn't give a ****. They don't take them seriously at all.

Mr Freeze

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Common enough and it usually starts over a disputed soccer result. On Tuesday last, North Korea announced they had beaten Germany in the World Cup final. Kim Jong-un captained the team and scored 15 hat-tricks in the final, as they went on to win 95 - 0.

On Wednesday, the South Korean media disputed this result and claimed Kim Jong-un only scored 11 hat-ricks in the final. An angry Kim, then ordered the shelling of the south to show his disapproval.

This is as reliable as any source from over there I suppose.

ohnonotgmail

DetroitSpinR wrote: »

I dunno.

I think I'd prefer to be gay, a woman or have a desire for alcohol and live in DPRK than in Saudi Arabia.
If I cheated on my wife or stole something or was accused of such I think I'd prefer the punishment meted out to me in NK than SA.

so would you prefer the 40 years in a labour camp, being eaten alive by wild dogs or death by anti-aircraft gun? only kidding. you dont get a choice. in ANYTHING to do with your life.

Dohnjoe

Famine is looming in the North, so they are raising tensions to extract concessions

Internationally it has to be taken seriously, but in reality, everyone knows what the score is

Dohnjoe

DetroitSpinR wrote: »

I dunno.

I think I'd prefer to be gay, a woman or have a desire for alcohol and live in DPRK than in Saudi Arabia.

People go to live and work in Saudi Arabia voluntarily, they don't move to N Korea - that should be a big hint

Likewise locals can leave Saudi, they can't leave N Korea, which is punishable not only by imprisonment, but also generational punishment (imprisoning family members in a labour camp: essentially a slow painful death sentence)

So yeah as medieval as Saudi can be, it's paradise compared to N of the 38th Parallel

The_Valeyard

Doesn't this happen every year the military exercise takes place?

Saber rattling!

All the regime wants is to stay in power, it's Oceania at war with EastAsia

Infini

NK is a failed broken state its got nukes but it knows it cant ever use them because if they did its game over for them the US would have every reason to move in on em and China would not allow it to exist either considering any nuclear fallout would be a major threat to them

Realistically it may cave in on itself at somepoint in the future its got a massive PAPER army. They say 1mil but they couldnt even fully arm half of it even most of the regular army is antiquated soviet equipment they would stand little chance against modern weapons. In addition the new kim has been going batty with executions left right and center hell be lucky to have any reliable people at all in a few years.

Funny thing with china tho: They want NK to exist because they dont want US troops on their border yet ironically if NK ceased to exist the US would have little reason to remain there expecially if China did buisness with SK and got on well with one another post united korea. Realistically NK will only exist as long as china wants it to. If it becomes a complete liability or starts causing more trouble than its worth then NKs days are numbered and they have been pusing their luck the last few years.

bilston

Infini2 wrote: »

NK is a failed broken state its got nukes but it knows it cant ever use them because if they did its game over for them the US would have every reason to move in on em and China would not allow it to exist either considering any nuclear fallout would be a major threat to them

Realistically it may cave in on itself at somepoint in the future its got a massive PAPER army. They say 1mil but they couldnt even fully arm half of it even most of the regular army is antiquated soviet equipment they would stand little chance against modern weapons. In addition the new kim has been going batty with executions left right and center hell be lucky to have any reliable people at all in a few years.

Funny thing with china tho: They want NK to exist because they dont want US troops on their border yet ironically if NK ceased to exist the US would have little reason to remain there expecially if China did buisness with SK and got on well with one another post united korea. Realistically NK will only exist as long as china wants it to. If it becomes a complete liability or starts causing more trouble than its worth then NKs days are numbered and they have been pusing their luck the last few years.

The problem is I can't see NK collapsing or Korea being united without major bloodletting. The NK regime won't give up power likely. I'd be concerned that if their President senses he is done for he will try and bring the rest of the Korean peninsula (and potentially further afield with the likes of Japan) down with him. It would mean inevitable and instant defeat for North Korea but he may think he has nothing to lose.

osarusan

Where's that lad gone who used to post on the great country that was North Korea?

I wonder did he turn his attention to Frankfurt?

Anyhow, has anybody ever looked at the North Korean government website? It's gas stuff.

http://korea-dpr.com/

The Democratic People's Republic of Korea is a genuine workers' state in which all the people are completely liberated from exploitation and oppression. The workers, peasants, soldiers and intellectuals are the true masters of their destiny and are in a unique position to defend their interests.

The working people are guaranteed inviolability of the person and the home and privacy of correspondence. The rights and freedom of citizens steadily increase with the consolidation and development of the socialist system.

Fallschirmjager

DetroitSpinR wrote: »

Is Seoul really within shelling distance?
Probably not even worth the bother anyway since the DPRK can launch conventional warheads (and now nuclear) that could reach Pusan in minutes.

Kinda like saying "I should be worried about Joe's ability to be able to punch me because he has a long arm......when all the while he has a cabinet of rifles too"

well rant inbound but Korea is actually fascinating...

the issue with their nukes is a reliable delivery system. they cant really launch **** to be honest, however, as the saying goes they only need to be successful once. building a nuke is one thing launching it on a rocket is the real trick. they do have a massive amount of fixed artillery that can reach Seoul, at least the outskirts. that would cause massive damage, you would be looking at tens of thousands of casualties if not more not to mention the worldwide economic affects. he would have the advantage for a short window to maximize damage before he is hit with a counterpunch of epic proportions. all i can say if i was a NK artillery man i would fire my 5 rounds and run as fuk fast as possible because otherwise the return fire will be pinpoint and nightmarish. the advantage ole Kim has is he just has to hit 'over there, somewhere, anywhere'.

the politics are making game of thrones look childish.

there is china who really cant afford and yet needs a war now. despite what you hear, china is in deep deep trouble. that port explosion has seriously limited their export business exactly at a time when they can least afford it. it also looks like the local communist party heads had an involvement and the latest is the cyanide rain and the fish kills. mix that with a largely hidden revolution underway, a collapsing stock market and a hidden but soon to be very public local banking failure that will make the wall street/housing crash look like a picnic. all those ghost cities they built, well they hid those loans (ala what the US did with houses) inside other loans to make them look good. those chickens are coming home to roost now, unless they can divert attention.

the US is not much better financially (you could argue worse) and not to be political, Mr Obama is wobbly at best on the whole war thing and neither is Russia or Japan in any shape. Also the US is committed to supply a massive army in the defense of SK. Something they dont have the manpower, money or will to do now, however China and Russia would love to see it sucked into a bloody ground war in both cost and image. Then there is a rumour that China and the US have agreed to split NK if it kicks off. NK is a total pain in the hole for new China, they need it and want it gone at the same time. the rumour is the Chinese will take northern part and South will push to a further line north. China does not want the US on its border, NK is simply a buffer state for them. it would be in China's interest for the population of NK to go South. the last thing they need is a starving population bursting north, they need engineers not farmers making pig iron in their back yard and farming skills last updated in the 1950's, jesus they dont need people who think Mao was right, not where they are now. also it would pretty well destroy South korea if the population went south, at least for the next 20 years as they try to pay for it all (sort of east germany on steroids). to china that would be good, they get the business South korea currently has.

either way, think of the reeducation they would have to do with NK citizens, 'no you dont need to stockpile your food', no the police wont execute you for not crying for dear leader, this is the internet, here is a shop, this is a car, that is a phone.... they are not going to be using samsung or foxconn built phones and gigabit internet or buying kia cars anytime soon. also without sounding horrible, but what can they bring to the SK economy? they also need engineers, not McDonalds food people who keep eating and stealing the burgers. (and no i dont mean that as a smarmy joke). for many NK citizens, seeing Seoul will be like us meeting an alien species.

then there is the mining rights...NKorea(aka Best Korea) has huge underdeveloped mineral deposits...apparently.

Ole Kim maybe thinking he can bombard his way to a stalemate and cower S Korea. unfortunately for him the modern war is vastly different. the SK and US forces have had 50 years to build a pixel by pixel image of NK defensive and offensive lines. Kim is thinking static defense while everyone else is thinking Shock and Awe +10,000%. i always love Kims masturbatory military videos of artillery and rockets hitting a mountain, thats easy, the mountain isnt shooting back. The nuke threat is only good once. if he fires, he knows he is going to swing from a rope as are his cronies, in fact if it is going bad a lot of his cronies wont do as he says as a way of avoiding the aftermath. if he does lob one, China will disown him. NK is starving, its always starving, their harvest is underway now and they need western grain to survive every year. if he was to do 'something' it will all be over in weeks, definitely a month. There will be the usual guerrilla war, he could succeed in that as Iraq has shown but its not like he can hide in the populous, not with his weight for example, kinda like a well fed nazi in a holocaust photo, they kinda stand out. he really has nowhere to run, if he uses any nuke material he is persona non grata even in the maddest ****holes on the planet.

its likely this is bluster for food for demands on food, for pressure on China for more free **** from S Korea and the US and right after a joint SK/US war game when everyone is fully trained...but then again he is not exactly mentally stable...

the saddest part is the people of NK. for 50 years they have been living in a time bubble. have a look at the night time image of the korean peninsula below. there is what 50 years does of 'best korea' and their version of communist nirvana. its a giant prison camp.

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/imageo/2013/03/31/the-two-koreas-like-night-and-day/#.VdcGQEYs-3s

If it kicks off, Kim better hope the Americans get to him first otherwise it will not be a very pretty end for him. no bunker, even one filled with his unicorns will hide him then...

just my opinion obviously

Paramite Pie

Infini2 wrote: »

Funny thing with china tho: They want NK to exist because they dont want US troops on their border yet ironically if NK ceased to exist the US would have little reason to remain there expecially if China did buisness with SK and got on well with one another post united korea.

The US has never left Germany or the Pacific since WWII. They have only recently begun downscaling their presence in Europe and have over 49,000 troops in Japan -- more than in S. Korea (29,000)!! In contrast there's only 6,800 troops remaining in Afghanistan.

China has no reason to believe that the US would withdraw it's troops from Korea, in fact they probably fear they'd move to the China/Korea border via NATO in the same manner that NATO have moved in Eastern Europe.

China has quite the ego and a bit of a siege mentality herself.

BoJack Horseman

While the US would have no obligation to remove itself from a unified democratic Korea, I think it would do so anyway.

If not in its entirety, certainly scale back considerably.

With the threat assessment greatly diminished, the affordability of keeping 12+ brigades in Korea/Japan would compel redeployment.

Especially with the US army undergoing its biggest shrinkage in multiple generations.

kylith

DetroitSpinR wrote: »

I dunno.

I think I'd prefer to be gay, a woman or have a desire for alcohol and live in DPRK than in Saudi Arabia.
If I cheated on my wife or stole something or was accused of such I think I'd prefer the punishment meted out to me in NK than SA.

I think I'd rather take the execution of just me in SA than the imprisonment of 3 generations of my family in NK.