Dog in Mayfield stabbed to death.

Rhys Essien

What kind of evil scumbag/scumbags slashes a lovely little Jack Russell's throat.Sick beyond belief.

http://www.corkindependent.com/20150817/news/dog-dies-in-mayfield-after-knife-attack-S110657.html

http://www.thejournal.ie/dog-throat-slashed-cork-2276835-Aug2015/

Curb Your Enthusiasm

Heard it on Neil Prendeville this morning. Very worrying for all pet owners and just sickening to think of the evil in the city...

beltainerose

A friend in Animal Welfare told me today that it was youngsters who did this .She did not know their ages but if that is true I fear for the future ..What must a child have seen for this to be how they behave..That poor wee dog ,heartbreaking and I bet this is not the 1st time ..

Roger Hassenforder

poor little dog. What goes through the mind of someone that can do that to an animal.
I hope they catch the little f**kers and make them suffer.

Unfortunately more people probably are more upset by this, than if a person was brutally stabbed.

cardinal tetra

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

poor little dog. What goes through the mind of someone that can do that to an animal.
I hope they catch the little f**kers and make them suffer.

Unfortunately more people probably are more upset by this, than if a person was brutally stabbed.

Rightly so. A dog can't defend itself. Go to the police. Cry for help. I would cry for a random dog I did not know. Not for a person I didn't know.

barneystinson

cardinal tetra wrote: »

Rightly so. A dog can't defend itself. Go to the police. Cry for help. I would cry for a random dog I did not know. Not for a person I didn't know.

Huh? How does that make any sense to you? How the f%#k is a person who's being stabbed going to go to the police?! A person or a dog, overpowered and helpless, stabbed to death - and you say the dog's case evokes more sympathy in you, I think you need help yourself.

Unless you're a dog. In which case, top marks for literacy, have a Scooby snack on me.

cardinal tetra

barneystinson wrote: »

Huh? How does that make any sense to you? How the f%#k is a person who's being stabbed going to go to the police?! A person or a dog, overpowered and helpless, stabbed to death - and you say the dog's case evokes more sympathy in you, I think you need help yourself.

Unless you're a dog. In which case, top marks for literacy, have a Scooby snack on me.

Why is that so hard for you to understand?
That I could empathise more with a dog being stabbed than a human being?

I would equate a dog being stabbed to death to that of a baby. Both helpless and innocent.

barneystinson

cardinal tetra wrote: »

Why is that so hard for you to understand?
That I could empathise more with a dog being stabbed than a human being?

I would equate a dog being stabbed to death to that of a baby. Both helpless and innocent.

How any more so than a (adult) person?

"Helpless" - if outnumbered or overpowered, an adult human is no better off / equipped tha a dog.

"Innocent" - what does this even mean? If a person who is unlucky enough to be in the wrong place at the wrong time gets stabbed, they're less "innocent" than a dog in similar circumstances?!

You're making no sense.

And just to be clear, I'd love to see whoever did this shot with a ball of their own excrement, but your posts are nonsense.

Missyelliot2

cardinal tetra wrote: »

Why is that so hard for you to understand?
That I could empathise more with a dog being stabbed than a human being?

I would equate a dog being stabbed to death to that of a baby. Both helpless and innocent.

Give it up .....it raised a smile, but you look like a saddo:D

Larbre34

I'm posting as a Dub because this sort of barbarism is going on here too. I think people are getting away from the core point that there are people around, existing with a new sort of mental level, a lack of morality, a lack of reality, a complete disconnection.

I'd be a fairly straight up person, try to do right by others, live and let live, help out a neighbour in need, mind my own business where it isnt wanted. However I believe too that the justice system as it now stands is entirely impotent for dealing with people like these. It just doesnt phase them or discourage them. These sorts were lost to society at an early age, and we don't need to hear a rehearsal of their deprived circumstances.

The only correct and just action on the occasion that a defenceless animal is tortured to death, like something out of the background of a serial killer, is the type of punishment that would have been dealt out to drug dealers by paramilitaries in days gone by. If they turned up crippled in a ditch it wouldnt be enough for them.

razorblunt

How serious are the Gardai taking this? There are folk ringing into 96 and Red FM saying they know who might have done it, would the Gardai be expected to follow up on this or would the radio shows pass the details on? Assuming the callers were genuine and not stooges for the two shows in question.

pwurple

Larbre34 wrote: »

The only correct and just action on the occasion that a defenceless animal is tortured to death, like something out of the background of a serial killer, is the type of punishment that would have been dealt out to drug dealers by paramilitaries in days gone by. If they turned up crippled in a ditch it wouldnt be enough for them.

I really hate posts like this. It was apparently some children who did this? I'd like to see them psychologically assessed for a start, and their own backgrounds checked for abuse.

I'm not going to join the mob calling for some potentially brain-damaged abused children to be kneecapped.

gimmick

Sure why not send them off to the Caribbean on a holiday altogether? FFS, its rubbish like that which empowers scum to go and do their scummy thing. They know they can play the "disadvantaged background/don't know any better card" and people will say "sure god love them, they come from a disadvantaged background and they don't know any better. Maybe send them on a cruise to the Caribbean".

Vigilante justice isn't the answer either, but I know if I saw someone attempting this on my dog its me who would need the Caribbean holiday.

calnand

I think the monatary reward for information would be better used by donating it to the CSPCA.

the beer revolu

gimmick wrote: »

Sure why not send them off to the Caribbean on a holiday altogether? FFS, its rubbish like that which empowers scum to go and do their scummy thing. They know they can play the "disadvantaged background/don't know any better card" and people will say "sure god love them, they come from a disadvantaged background and they don't know any better. Maybe send them on a cruise to the Caribbean".

Vigilante justice isn't the answer either, but I know if I saw someone attempting this on my dog its me who would need the Caribbean holiday.

To be fair, no one suggested that they should be sent on a cruise, or even that they should escape punishment. I agree that some serious assessment is required if children did this and looking at possible abuse situations that they might be in - and rectifying the situation and possibly taking action against any possible abusers. There is something seriously wrong with kids that do something like this and something seriously wrong with their environment to produce kids like this. It needs investigation.

No one was condoning the act, just decrying the whole vigilante mob rule sentiment that always gets trotted out in situations like this.

Roger Hassenforder

cardinal tetra wrote: »

Rightly so. A dog can't defend itself. Go to the police. Cry for help. I would cry for a random dog I did not know. Not for a person I didn't know.

if so, I'd rank you a level above the "people" who did this
no animal (human or dog) should be made suffer like that poor dog, but to have less empathy for a person than a dog suggests there is something amiss with you.

Roger Hassenforder

pwurple wrote: »

I really hate posts like this. It was apparently some children who did this? I'd like to see them psychologically assessed for a start, and their own backgrounds checked for abuse.

I'm not going to join the mob calling for some potentially brain-damaged abused children to be kneecapped.

and should it transpire that these were kids, what should be done? They're psychologically assessed and it transpires they did this as "a cry for help", they didn't get enough cuddles? What is appropriate sanction? I'd like to see the parents held responsible.

I'm no profiler, but I imagine anyone that can do this to a dog, would have no problem doing it to a person. this suggests some serious intervention is required.

the beer revolu

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

I'm no profiler, but I imagine anyone that can do this to a dog, would have no problem doing it to a person. this suggests some serious intervention is required.

Which is exactly what the poster you quoted wants - intervention.

The vigilantes, on the other hand would have the kid beaten to within an inch of his/her life as if said kid might learn a lesson and never go on to reoffend.:rolleyes:

That kind of mentality would surely increase the chances of the kid going on to do some serious harm to a person.


Also lets exchange the hypothetical "didn't get enough cuddles" with a hypothetical "was grossly sexually and physically assaulted from a young age".
Would that change anything? (hypothetically)

Roger Hassenforder

the beer revolu wrote: »

Which is exactly what the poster you quoted wants - intervention.

The vigilantes, on the other hand would have the kid beaten to within an inch of his/her life as if said kid might learn a lesson and never go on to reoffend.:rolleyes:

That kind of mentality would surely increase the chances of the kid going on to do some serious harm to a person.


Also lets exchange the hypothetical "didn't get enough cuddles" with a hypothetical "was grossly sexually and physically assaulted from a young age".
Would that change anything? (hypothetically)

so society/social services has failed the perpetrators?
plenty of people unfortunately were/are physically and/or sexually abused, very few of them go on to do this to a dog. if these were kids that were abused it shouldn't take a tortured dog to have them removed from their abusive environment.

lets introduce "what if the person is just a f**king scumbag", and maybe people should be held responsible for their actions, or that of their kids.

TBH, if i found someone that did that to my dog, I'm not sure it would be the cops i'd be calling.

Paz-CCFC

Maybe if we assessed children like the person/people who attacked this dog, we might prevent future attacks on innocent people and animals? And maybe if we could get to people and treat them before they actually do something wrong, we could prevent them from becoming criminals?

Nah, that sounds like work and effort. Let's just beat the sh*te out of them. That definitely won't make things worse.

pwurple

gimmick wrote: »

Sure why not send them off to the Caribbean on a holiday altogether? FFS, its rubbish like that which empowers scum to go and do their scummy thing. They know they can play the "disadvantaged background/don't know any better card" and people will say "sure god love them, they come from a disadvantaged background and they don't know any better. Maybe send them on a cruise to the Caribbean".

Vigilante justice isn't the answer either, but I know if I saw someone attempting this on my dog its me who would need the Caribbean holiday.

You think getting to the root of the cause is a caribbean holiday?

There is something very seriously wrong with someone, if beating a small animal to death is what they do for fun.

Get out the probes and find out what it is.

Ludo

pwurple wrote: »

You think getting to the root of the cause is a caribbean holiday?

I think you completely misinterpreted that post.

pwurple

Ludo wrote: »

I think you completely misinterpreted that post.

Or I'm showing that they completely misinterpreted mine....

pwurple

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

and should it transpire that these were kids, what should be done? They're psychologically assessed and it transpires they did this as "a cry for help", they didn't get enough cuddles? What is appropriate sanction? I'd like to see the parents held responsible.

I'm no profiler, but I imagine anyone that can do this to a dog, would have no problem doing it to a person. this suggests some serious intervention is required.

They definitely need some intervention, but how on earth can you decide what that is before you know all the details?

Do you think there are people who beats small dogs to death and are normal and well? Because I think there must be something fairly seriously wrong with them to be able to do this.

holyhead

First off R.I.P. Marvin. Poor little jack russell. Makes me almost sick when I think of what they did to him. I really hope the little gurriers who did this to him are caught. The problem is what do you do then. As they are likely children can you hold the parents responsible for there actions. I think naming and shaming the kids and maybe there parents would be a good start. Maybe if they were subjected to social isolation it might make the parents wake up and smell the coffee about what is socially acceptable. I certainly wouldn't be going down the namby pamby route of making excuses for outlandish behaviour towards a defenseless animal. What those feckers did to the dog was barbaric. If it was a human the papers would be full of psycho kids on the loose headlines. Could you make a case for withholding state money for a year if there parents are in receipt of? Maybe the're rich kids who knows. Either way this has to stop and only the fear of consequences will help avoid a repeat.

eviltwin

The treatment of people who are capable of inflicting such pain is best left to experts. If it was a child it could be any one of a number of issues, a severely abused or neglected child, a child with mental health issues who may not have known what they were doing, a form of hazing or intimidation....rather than attack first or blame the parents ( this kind of behaviour is possibly more than just lazy parenting ) I'd like to see help and medical attention. If there is no intervention I dread to think what they might do next.

Roger Hassenforder

pwurple wrote: »

They definitely need some intervention, but how on earth can you decide what that is before you know all the details?

Do you think there are people who beats small dogs to death and are normal and well? Because I think there must be something fairly seriously wrong with them to be able to do this.

there is the possibility that these were just common garden scumbags; no doubt one of them videoed it for later gratification.

any word on those responsible?

Justin Credible Darts

already a thread here

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057479110&page=13

pwurple

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

already a thread here

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057479110&page=13

Other way around. This thread is older.

Dannyboy83

the beer revolu wrote: »

No one was condoning the act, just decrying the whole vigilante mob rule sentiment that always gets trotted out in situations like this.

I understand your sentiment but let us not pretend people will not respond to judicial failure by some other means. Vigilante deterrence is one of a number of outcomes when laws are not enforced.
And even when laws are enforced - if people feel sufficiently threatened...it's just a few months ago that a convicted rapist was beaten and hunted out of Cork. And a radio host was cheering them on if anyone recalls.

This week, a viciously tortured Jack Russell in Cork.
Last week, a dog blinded in both eyes with acid in Waterford.

It may very well be that this bloodcurdling act in Cork this week was committed by some deeply disturbed children, but we know there are plenty of examples where this is not the case...

This was just over 2 weeks ago:

After failed attempts to suffocate his 9-year-old family dog in the field, Dowling was then seen swinging the dog overhead by its lead and smashing it repeatedly into the ground as he walked through Clonliffe College Park, which at the time was full of children and their parents.

Witnesses said they saw Mr Dowling putting his foot on the dog’s head while it was on the ground and pulling the lead tight. They also said they saw him “smash” the dog into the ground up to 30 times as he walked through the park.
The father-of-one pleaded guilty to killing a protected animal at the Dublin Circuit Criminal Court but claimed he thought it was the right thing to do as he could not afford the sick dog’s vet bills. He also claimed to have no knowledge about the euthanasia service procedure provided by the Irish Blue Cross.

With a verdict that has absolutely flabbergasted local animal welfare groups, Judge Martin Nolan sentenced Dowling to just 200 hours of community service and shockingly did not bar 44-year-old from keeping animals in the future. He said he would not impose a ban on Mr Dowling keeping animals, as he “didn’t want to deprive the man’s child of having a dog.” and noted that Mr Dowling was caring for a child and was a “contributing member of society.”
In a statement, the DSPCA said they had written to Director of Public Prosecutions requesting that the leniency of the sentence in this case be appealed.
“Our inspectors have seldom seen such blatant cruelty to an animal perpetrated in full view of children and parents in a public park,” they said.

“The DSPCA are calling for the full implementation of the penalties under the Animal Health and Welfare Act 2013 in this brutal and horrific case of animal cruelty.
“Given that this animal was a family pet, we are also at a loss to understand why a lifetime ban on the ownership of animals has not been imposed on this individual.”

Animal abuse is on the increase in Ireland in general and legislation is not the problem, the problem is failure to enforce it.
http://theoutspokenpost.com/2015/02/02/irelands-animal-cruelty-crisis/

Even those who attempt to rescue the animals have been targeted.

An animal welfare officer — a star of the RTÉ TV series Animal Rescue — revealed yesterday how she had to quit her job after receiving threats and verbal abuse from Travellers.

She told the Employment Appeals Tribunal sitting in Galway she had been employed full-time by the GSPCA in 2006 and part-time from 2009 when the recession hit. She left the job in late February or early March of 2012 suffering from depression.

“I was threatened by Travellers over one case I can remember,” said Ms Zanon. “They knew where I was living and they followed into a bog to get an animal. Then they cornered me in the van. They threatened me and I got panic attacks.”

As many as 20 dogs a day are being stolen by a gang in Co Kildare, with gardaí confirming that in some cases they are returned to owners for a reward which is in effect a ransom.

Dog owners warned to be vigilant against dognappers after mysterious chalk marks appear

DOG owners have been warned to be extra vigilant after the appearance of mysterious chalk markings on properties following a spate of dognappings.

When a convicted rapist is chased out of Cork, it must send the message to other rapists, that rapists are not causally tolerated here.

Hypothetically speaking, if an animal murderer lost a hand, I'd imagine it would send the same message.

Roger Hassenforder

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

I understand y... I'd imagine it would send the same message.

i think too often there's an assumption that the people who do evil stuff like this have either suffered abuse; are mentally defective; or are for some reason temporarily not responsible.

Sure we should determine if there is an underlying reason, but some people are just that, evil. Not sick, evil. Nasty pieces of work. They have no regard for other human beings, animals or society's norms in general. Society hasnt failed them, they have failed society, so why should they be tolerated in it.

hopefully the 11K offered will result in one of the scumbags squealing.

gimmick

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

i think too often there's an assumption that the people who do evil stuff like this have either suffered abuse; are mentally defective; or are for some reason temporarily not responsible.

People love to assume. if anyone dies suddenly these days, you will almsot immediate hear someone say "ya, he suffered from depression" when in fact they are pulling that out of their holes.

Similar here, some little pricks, who I have no doubt were doiung this for bantz and lolz, the assumption is they have a tough background and were all sexually abused and didn't know better.

Perhaps, maybe, if the person was all alone, some of the above excuses might might apply, but if it is a gang of them, I think it is hard to think that all of them can rely on those excuses.

hufpc8w3adnk65

leave moderation too mods. If you see something you are not sure about or think is wrong click report and we can deal with it. Please do not de-rail threads. These two seperate threads are in different parts of the board. I find nothing wrong with it being here in the cork section

the beer revolu

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

When a convicted rapist is chased out of Cork, it must send the message to other rapists, that rapists are not causally tolerated here.

Hypothetically speaking, if an animal murderer lost a hand, I'd imagine it would send the same message.

And what happens if said empowered vigilante mob decides that they don't want Africans in their neighbourhood, or Muslims?
Anyone remember the paediatrician's house in Wales that was attacked because the mob thought she was a paedophile?

Mob rule is not a pretty thing and gets out of control very quickly and does not tolerate minorities. They also get the wrong perpetrators pretty often.

Flawed as our judicial system is, I trust it a lot more then an angry, emotional, ill informed mob to dole out "justice".

Dannyboy83

the beer revolu wrote: »

And what happens if said empowered vigilante mob decides that they don't want Africans in their neighbourhood, or Muslims?
Anyone remember the paediatrician's house in Wales that was attacked because the mob thought she was a paedophile?

Mob rule is not a pretty thing and gets out of control very quickly and does not tolerate minorities. They also get the wrong perpetrators pretty often.

Fully agree.
This is why laws should be enforced, to prevent mob rule. It's most certainly not a desirable situation, it's a reactionary one.

I realise some people will find it hard to grasp vigilante reaction against animal torturers, but that is because it is a less emotive issue to them.

I abhor animal abuse in general, but in my personal opinion, due to:
A) the special relationship between humans and dogs (unlike any other species - dog social-cognitive skills parallel some of the social-cognitive skills of human children),
the unique way in way which dogs evolved alongside humans and
C) the emotional trauma caused to family members

- a case such as this should be treated similarly to that of James Bulger.

I don't expect everyone to agree with me, but I'm aware there are others who feel as strongly about animal torture, so I would not be at all surprised at a vigilante reaction if the courts remain indifferent to animal torture.

Flawed as our judicial system is, I trust it a lot more then an angry, emotional, ill informed mob to dole out "justice".

This is where we differ; my faith in the judicial system has been shattered, where animal murder is concerned.
This is corroborated by the fact that animal abuse and murder is actually increasing in Ireland, despite much more comprehensive legislation and ethically/morally unambiguous social norms.

I don't dispute that the judicial system can be effective as a means of deterrence, I am simply stating that presently it is not.

Hypothetically speaking, if an animal murderer lost a hand, I'd imagine it would force the courts to re-evaluate their implementation of the legislation.

pwurple

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Sure we should determine if there is an underlying reason, but some people are just that, evil. Not sick, evil. Nasty pieces of work.

I genuinely don't think that's the case. People do ferociously violent things, for very flakey reasons, and either firmly believe they are somehow 'justified', or are mentally ill.

Chopping children's hands off, shooting them, hanging them, castrating them and all the various actions suggested in multiple threads about this topic are horrendously evil things to even contemplate doing.

Are all those people "evil, nasty pieces of work", or is the context at all relevant?

Roger Hassenforder

pwurple wrote: »

I genuinely don't think that's the case. People do ferociously violent things, for very flakey reasons, and either firmly believe they are somehow 'justified', or are mentally ill.

Chopping children's hands off, shooting them, hanging them, castrating them and all the various actions suggested in multiple threads about this topic are horrendously evil things to even contemplate doing.

Are all those people "evil, nasty pieces of work", or is the context at all relevant?

I'm not suggesting any hand chopping...

We differ in our view of the perpetrators:
You think there must be something seriously wrong with them to do this? They either think they were justified or mentally ill. Assuming no rational justification for this, ergo they must be mentally ill.


I think there probably isn't an underlying mental illness , rather they are just a bunch of absolute scrotes with no regard for others (inc. animals particularly), and the justice system seems to be failing those that find this abhorrent, which is why vigilantism is manifesting itself.

Dannyboy83

pwurple wrote: »

I genuinely don't think that's the case.

Are all those people "evil, nasty pieces of work", or is the context at all relevant?

Context is certainly relevant; There is an assumption that the case in Cork involves children (There is also an assumption that these children are mentally ill)...The particular example I outlined in my previous post did not involve a child or a mentally ill person however: It was a fully sane, 44 year old adult male. (I highlighted the 'pleaded guilty' term to display this)
The majority of the cases of animal abuse and murder in Ireland are committed by sane, adult males.

Evil is a subjective term, and does not have a legal definition (open to correction here).
As far as I understand, the legal definition is malice.

Morally and ethically, these actions are subjectively evil & in direct violation of social norms.
Legally, these actions are objectively malicious.

pwurple wrote: »

...all the various actions suggested in multiple threads about this topic are horrendously evil things to even contemplate doing.

I fully understand the uneasiness and concern you are emoting concerning this topic, so do not think I am dismissing you points, but I think you are displaying cognitive dissonance.

For example:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/9139845/Paedophiles-chemically-castrated-in-British-jail.html
Paedophiles chemically castrated in British jail
Around one hundred child sex offenders have undergone chemical castration under a government programme to reduce the likelihood of them reoffending.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8362605.stm
This week, the French National Assembly is debating a bill on the treatment of re-offenders.
One of the issues likely to be discussed is chemical castration. This is currently voluntary in France, but some are calling for it to become obligatory after a convicted sex offender attacked and killed a jogger.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/death-penalty-should-be-revisited-says-ex-judge-1.772376
Death penalty should be revisited, says ex-judge

THE QUESTION of the death penalty for certain kinds of murder, for example those committed during armed robberies, should be revisited, according to the former president of the High Court, Mr Justice Richard Johnson.
Speaking to The Irish Times, the judge said: “The Government should look at it. Then if the people want it they should have it.”
A constitutional ban on the death penalty was introduced as the 21st amendment to the Constitution in 2001. Another referendum would be necessary if the death penalty were to be legislated for.
“I am not totally in favour of it. But it should be revisited,” the former judge said. “It would have to be for specific offences. If people arm up and go out to rob and decide to take out anyone who gets in their way, they should pay the price. It should be a matter for each individual case.”

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/councillors-call-for-debate-on-death-penalty-1.1265990
CALLS WERE made yesterday for a national debate on the reintroduction of the death penalty for certain offences.
Speaking at the January meeting of the Mid-West Regional Authority in Ennis, Co Clare, Cllr PJ Kelly (FF) said that the fear of punishment for crimes among criminals no longer existed.
Mr Kelly said: “I believe that there will be a demand before long for the reintroduction of the death penalty for certain offences. I would support a public debate on the issue.”
Supporting Mr Kelly’s call for a debate on the matter, Cllr Brian Meaney (Green) said: “A debate on the reintroduction of the death penalty is something that would put the focus on the issue of crime and punishment.”

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/limerick-mayor-wants-death-penalty-for-ireland-95719909-237698951.html
The Mayor of Limerick, Kevin Kiely, has asked the government to look in to holding a referendum on the reintroduction of the death penalty in Ireland.

Last year murders in Ireland increased by six percent to 53 murders and two manslaughters. He feels that the reinstatement of capital punishment might help to curb the increasing numbers of murders in the State.

pwurple

Dannyboy, are you a qualified pschychiatrist in your spare time? How can you possibly state that anyone is sane or not?

The only assumptions being made by me, is that we don't know enough details to make ANY assumptions.

Where is my cognitive dissonance? I have no desire to see the death penalty introduced. It's completely barbaric.

whisky_galore

I would love to know why it is a 'teen gang' that the media latched onto, is it just an assumption that 'those no good teens who hang around street corners did this'?

Surely if someone noticed a 'teen gang' carrying out this, they would be able to give a more detailed description? Acts of animal cruelty are carried out by all ages, school kids to pensioners.

Dannyboy83

pwurple wrote: »

Dannyboy, are you a qualified pschychiatrist in your spare time?

“Insanity” itself is not recognised in psychiatry, psychiatrists have to rely on the legal definition of insanity.

pwurple wrote: »

How can you possibly state that anyone is sane or not?

The judiciary evaluate 'Competency' and 'Sanity'.

In Ireland, there are currently three forms of insanity: the insanity defence under Section 5, the defence of diminished responsibility under Section 6 and, finally, the unfit to be tried plea under Section 4.

The father-of-one pleaded guilty to killing a protected animal at the Dublin Circuit Criminal Court

Regardless, in any of the 3 defences, if the man was evaluated to be insane, it's highly improbable he would be allowed to care for a child, particularly having already murdered an animal.

pwurple wrote: »

The only assumptions being made by me, is that we don't know enough details to make ANY assumptions.

In the Cork case, I agree, that is why I haven't speculated on it and have continually distinguished and used qualifying statements such as

dannyboy83
The particular example I outlined in my previous post did not involve a child or a mentally ill person however

And

dannyboy83
It may very well be that this bloodcurdling act in Cork this week was committed by some deeply disturbed children, but we know there are plenty of examples where this is not the case...

This was just over 2 weeks ago...(Dowling Murder story)

In fact, I haven't actually expressed an opinion on the Cork case so far...

pwurple wrote: »

Where is my cognitive dissonance? I have no desire to see the death penalty introduced. It's completely barbaric.

I will quote you for clarity:

pwurple
all the various actions suggested in multiple threads about this topic are horrendously evil things to even contemplate doing.

I demonstrated to you several examples where legal, state sanctioned 'deterrence methods' are both implemented (chemical castration) and contemplated (death penalty).

You also argue that a person who would commit such an atrocity must be mentally ill, (again I will quote you for clarity)

pwurple
Do you think there are people who beats small dogs to death and are normal and well? Because I think there must be something fairly seriously wrong with them to be able to do this.

but this argument invalidates the concept of 'mens rea'.

Unfortunately, sane people do willingly commit malice. And in greater numbers than the mentally ill.



Anyway, everyone here is on the same side I am sure.

I believe the following points are clear:
i) the judiciary are failing to implement the legislation
ii) let us not pretend people will not respond to judicial failure by some other means
iii) sane people unfortunately do commit malice, and the law should as a deterrent, both to criminals and to vigilantism.

the beer revolu

I firmly believe that anyone even contemplating reintroduction of the death penalty is morally retarded. No argument or extreme examples will ever convince me otherwise.
It's a red line for me.

Dannyboy83

the beer revolu wrote: »

I firmly believe that anyone even contemplating reintroduction of the death penalty is morally retarded. No argument or extreme examples will ever convince me otherwise.
It's a red line for me.

I am inclined to agree with you, tho probably for different reasons in the main; I am unsure the state should have the right to kill. Then add wrongful conviction etc.

Where do you stand on Chemical Castration of paedophiles?

maggiepip

Its not insanity that leads thugs to commit such an act its sadism. Sadism which is a trait thats rampant in many humans. Just take bullfighting for example, a torturous sadistic "sport" that many a "normal family" consider a fun day out. All over the world there are sporting activities which involve the torture of animals, where does this all come from? Theres a sickness in humans .

the beer revolu

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Where do you stand on Chemical Castration of paedophiles?

On a voluntary basis, I've no problem with it.
On a non voluntary basis, I'm uncomfortable but not necessarily against it.

leahyl

Ok, we are drifting a bit from the topic of the thread, can we keep on topic please.

Dannyboy83

leahyl wrote: »

Ok, we are drifting a bit from the topic of the thread, can we keep on topic please.

Apologies, back on topic.

What can we do about the lack of enforcement of the legislation?
The DSPCA appealed to the courts - to no avail I believe.

I'm not sure if the Judiciary necessarily take notice of a social media campaign, in the way that a politician would, since they are appointed not elected and largely immune to public opinion.

Only for Neil Prendeville highlighting this case, I'm fairly sure it would have been just another animal murder, so Kudos to him for that.

the beer revolu

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Only for Neil Prendeville highlighting this case, I'm fairly sure it would have been just another animal murder, so Kudos to him for that.

I realise that you feel very strongly about animal abuse, as I'm sure everyone here does but the term murder, both linguistically and legally, refers the the killing of a human.
You can no more murder an animal than you can marry one.

Dannyboy83

the beer revolu wrote: »

I realise that you feel very strongly about animal abuse, as I'm sure everyone here does but the term murder, both linguistically and legally, refers the the killing of a human.
You can no more murder an animal than you can marry one.

Incorrect;this is actually current open to debate:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-judge-grants-human-rights-to-a-pair-of-laboratory-chimpanzees-being-held-at-biomedical-research-facility-in-landmark-case-10193558.html

US judge grants 'human rights' to a pair of laboratory chimpanzees being held at biomedical research facility in landmark case

I believe dogs deserve special legal status, for the reasons I outlined in my previous post.

pwurple

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

I believe dogs deserve special legal status, for the reasons I outlined in my previous post.

Maybe when everyone is vegan.