New series of WDYTYA

pinkypinky

*commences whine*

Just getting around to watching Paul Hollywood's episode from last week. Half an hour in, we haven't covered anything remotely called genealogy, despite a brief glimpse of a military record. Paul's grandfather's WWII record is moderately interesting. That's it.

Sigh.

Ah, and then someone in the family has done a tree already...

Jellybaby1

They tend to go for what they think is the most 'entertaining' or the most 'interesting' ancestor. Anything military is big at the moment so I expected they would have gone for that . Michael Hogan in The Telegraph was suitably enraptured. I was happy with the story of the post runner myself. Military records are available so not too much scratching around there. You're right though, genealogy doesn't even come into it. Sigh.

pinkypinky

I'm still watching it though, because I'm a completist. There is a small amount of genealogy in the second half.

L1011

Ever since the claims of them not doing a planned episode when it turned out the celeb had no interesting ancestors (Michael Parkinson apparently), I've seen it as an entertainment show not a genealogy show. Will probably still watch it though, its on my recorder.

P. Breathnach

This discussion raises the question of what genealogy is about.

The simple model is that we are trying to learn the names and dates of our lineal ancestors.

One step further is that we spread it a bit wider, and find relatives. I am sure I am not the only person here who has met third cousins of whose existence was unaware before I became interested in genealogy.

But the facet that gives me most satisfaction is the writing of mini-biographies of ancestors, preferably illustrated with pictures of the houses in which they lived.

I agree that WDYTYA is largely an entertainment show with a genealogical basis.

pinkypinky

P Breathnach, I agree with you...and for the individual involved, no doubt, this tracing of an individual is worthwhile. While my grandparents are my antecedents, I do not consider anyone I met and personally had a relationship with an "ancestor" as such.

Jellybaby1

Next on the list Jane Seymour and Derek Jacobi. I will of course watch the series through whatever they cover. Yes, I also have discovered previously unknown cousins, one of which is living relatively near me. However, our relationship hasn't become any closer, but its nice to have met up with them and got some insight into their families and exchanged the same stories albeit from different angles. It makes the Christmas card list a tad longer too!

pedroeibar1

P. Breathnach wrote: »

This discussion raises the question of what genealogy is about.

The simple model is that we are trying to learn the names and dates of our lineal ancestors.

One step further is that we spread it a bit wider, and find relatives. I am sure I am not the only person here who has met third cousins of whose existence was unaware before I became interested in genealogy.

But the facet that gives me most satisfaction is the writing of mini-biographies of ancestors, preferably illustrated with pictures of the houses in which they lived.

I agree that WDYTYA is largely an entertainment show with a genealogical basis.

I agree, and have written biogs of several people in my collateral ancestral lines and have shared them within the family. For a long time I believed my maternal line to be "quiet" and "respectable" and after considerable research I did not find skeletons but some really interesting stories. For example, just one, the story of a single maiden great aunt who went to Paris before WWI, worked as a VAD and a teacher, opened a fascinating series of events and recent contacts with the descendants of a White Russian family with whom she was friendly. Another was an early settler in Australia who became very successful and by a remarkable coincidence met a kinsman in my paternal line. Odds of that? Genealogy was - and is - a trigger for my interest in history.

As for WDYTYA, it’s "genotainment", a TV equivalent of “Hello” magazine and a vehicle for advertising & possibly selling a few subscriptions. It has nothing to do with real genealogy and the sponsors know that. The reason they use celebs is that they have egos, can act (i.e. shed a tear), are used to camera work and the unwashed viewers like gawking in the hope of finding some affinity (“See, 'is granddad worked in t’mill as a nipper”). Some celebs even loved hamming it up - was it Hurt who was particularly nauseating? The last programme was 75% on a grandparent’s role in WW2 N. African desert action. Hardly cutting edge history, let alone genealogy, it was just pandering to current TV tastes. From the sponsors' side WDYTYA just gets the name out there, misleadingly selling the message that genealogy is easy.

A far more entertaining programme series could be made using ordinary people with some really interesting ancestors and stories to tell, but that would be genealogy, not prurience.

Seymour's background is middleclass, a doctor's daughter, (but poor origins in Poland). I doubt they will cover her "issues" with the neighbours over her manor house.

Hermy

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

A far more entertaining programme series could be made using ordinary people with some really interesting ancestors and stories to tell, but that would be genealogy, not prurience.

This!

Jellybaby1

As far as I remember, wasn't the very first series about 'ordinary' people. They brought in the celebs later. Or was that a different series?

L1011

Was celebs from day 1 - RTE had a different show that was normal people before they franchised WDYTYA though.

The RTE version did fairly well - I'm surprised they (or TV3, seeing as they've taken RTE castoffs before) haven't dug it up again as its been quite some time.

Researching Irish ancestors has become vastly easier since 2009 too, so there'd be a promotional element to that if the series got sold abroad.

P. Breathnach

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

I agree, and have written biogs of several people in my collateral ancestral lines and have shared them within the family. For a long time I believed my maternal line to be "quiet" and "respectable" and after considerable research I did not find skeletons but some really interesting stories. For example, just one, the story of a single maiden great aunt who went to Paris before WWI, worked as a VAD and a teacher, opened a fascinating series of events and recent contacts with the descendants of a White Russian family with whom she was friendly. Another was an early settler in Australia who became very successful and by a remarkable coincidence met a kinsman in my paternal line. Odds of that? Genealogy was - and is - a trigger for my interest in history....

I can't match those colourful elements. Herself, who doesn't post here, conducts her own research, and can probably beat them.

I started my research when I realised that nobody in the family knew anything much about one grandfather, even though he survived into his eighties. There wasn't even clarity about where he was born. I now have a photograph of a few scattered stones in the corner of a field in Wicklow, all that remains of the house where his grandfather lived almost 200 years ago. I find that sort of thing very satisfying.

shanew

I'll watch any of the WDYTYA editions I can locate - UK, US, Oz and a few Canada.. part family story, part local history and a small part genealogy. You can get interesting details, historical events from a family point of view. I dont think the programs would get made if they didn't have the 'celeb' element to draw in the required audience.

You can browse around a map as it goes and if they are not being too speculative , e.g. skipping around or jumping back to Royalty, you can pause and and see if you can jump ahead or go further - e.g. the US one that ended up in Ballylongford, or the McAdams in Cornwall.

I loved the post runner story from Paul Hollywood's episode - have a Postillion / Post boy as a gtgtgt-grandfather, but he didn't have to travel anywhere near as far..

pinkypinky

Shane, are saying you try to work out the genealogy before the tv show does?!

I used to pause Only Connect and work out the wall but they've stopped updating them on the website now.

shanew

Have a skipped ahead on a few - even looked at one that didn't end up being broadcast - Lauren Graham, had a trail back to Conn. / NY and two possible lines back in Ireland (Kilkenny / Laois Brophy? afaik)

at work we've done, or at least tried all the Only Connect walls - some of the Fan ones are impossible.. I like the last round of the program, more instinct than thinking

L1011

The odd Only Connect wall has me almost screaming at the TV, some of the seem so simple - when you know what obscure topic they're on!

shanew

L1011 wrote: »

The odd Only Connect wall has me almost screaming at the TV, some of the seem so simple - when you know what obscure topic they're on!

there's always a red-herring square - and the best ones have several overlapping clues, just to confuse

pinkypinky

As much as I love this conversation (and started it!) we're getting off topic.

So back to the subject at hand, which is that Shane is a huge nerd who tries to beat the tv. I hope you don't spend actual money on this!

shanew

pinkypinky wrote: »

..........tries to beat the tv. I hope you don't spend actual money on this!

always !! that's what puzzles are for. I generally have an active Anc. account which helps with UK and US lines.

Dont think there's that much opportunity for skipping ahead with the upcoming UK episodes.. some English/Scottish lines and others that skip back to other parts of the world. Looks like Jerry Hall might have some interesting twists - English, Irish, Dutch and Cherokee Native American and maybe Frances de la Tour with French, Greek, and Irish

slightly OT - think there is a US series running at the moment, have an episode yet to watch..

p.s. there are two more poss. Irish links in those UK ones - a Malone and an O'Kane

Jellybaby1

I have to ask, what is the 'Only Connect' Wall? Is it prehistoric me, or my prehistoric TV that can't understand what that is?

shanew

Jellybaby1 wrote: »

I have to ask, what is the 'Only Connect' Wall? Is it prehistoric me, or my prehistoric TV that can't understand what that is?

<ot>
Only Connect is a quiz, on after University Challenge (proper diff. questions..) a collection of Walls from the quiz available here
</ot>

dragging this back OT - how about creating a Genealogy or Irish History Wall ?

Hermy

shanew wrote: »

<ot>University Challenge</ot>

Now your talking.;)

pedroeibar1

shanew wrote: »

.......I dont think the programs would get made if they didn't have the 'celeb' element to draw in the required audience.

Agreed in general, but a great storyline would overcome that hurdle.

shanew wrote: »

I loved the post runner story from Paul Hollywood's episode - have a Postillion / Post boy as a gtgtgt-grandfather, but he didn't have to travel anywhere near as far..

[pedant bit] four gts I think, and a postillion was quite different to a post-boy, despite what they said.

shanew

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

..and a postillion was quite different to a post-boy, despite what they said.

your comment about these two being different prompted me to check this for my ancestor, as it's a while since this line was checked out. The baptisms for various children (1842 - 1848) list him as 'post-boy George Inn', 'postboy' and 'lab. late a postillion' - so looks like we had been thinking of the wrong type of 'post' for this guy.

pedroeibar1

I'd be slow to come to a decision on that, without more research - originally the postillion rode the lead horse (lefthand front looking forward) when there were 4 or 6 drawing a coach, and his job was to help guide them around corners, etc. Sometimes they were employees if the coach was a private one, other times they were attached to an Inn and would have brought the coach horses back from a "stage" if another fare was not available.
A post-boy did have "postal" duties as the mail was distributed via inns. There is a decent read on the topic here on a Jane Austen site. So a postillion could start out as such and though work duties "mutate" to post-boy.

The coachman drove (sitting out in the open) on "the box", the groom usually was stay-at-home and looked after the feeding of the horses and cared for the harnesses / tack, and the footmen stood on the step at the rear of the coach to help it over obstacles, braking or whatever was needed (or for "show" in a city). Sometimes a footman would run ahead to either clear the road or have the next inn prepare food/horses/whatever was required.

shanew

Thanks for that additional detail, will have a closer read of that link later..

The only other evidence of his occupation I have so far is the 1841 census where he appears as 'post boy', he died before the 1851. Just the one mention of being a former postillion and that's on the baptism of the youngest child.