Discussion about Illegal Evictions

the_syco

I'm making a new thread instead of derailing Rent allowance ... balance not paid

athtrasna wrote: »

No that would be an illegal eviction believe it or not. The prtb has given five figure settlements to people evicted in this way.

Last time I looked into it, I couldn't find any recent settlements for illegal eviction. Also, if there's anything preventing the LL from ignoring the PRTB as they seem to be toothless.

Not condoning illegal evictions, but haven't heard of anyone actually getting fined recently. The IrishTimes had an article back in 2005 of a few getting fined small amounts, but I'd wonder could the landlords just ignore the PRTB's decision, or has the PRTB being given any tooth to match their bark?

In the above article, the largest was €14,000 but as this can be a years rent to some places in Dublin, I'd wonder has any Dublin landlords being fined more for illegal evictions?

handlemaster

i dont k ow but the system is a joke at the moment with welfare tenants
. its a win win for tenants and lose lose for landlords. what are the chances of a landlord getting unpaid rent from a welfare tenant without incurring hugh costs

To be honest if I was a LL and tenants were not paying rent and I had issued them their eviction notice correctly etc and they were still refusing to move I'd take my chances throwing them out and changing the locks. I'd rather pay money in a fine than be losing it to people living for free and i'd be confident that if the tenants were in the wrong then no judgment is going to be harsh against the LL.

newmug

the way I'd look at it, they're illegal tenancies in the first place!

handlemaster

Aurelia Round Retiree wrote: »

To be honest if I was a LL and tenants were not paying rent and I had issued them their eviction notice correctly etc and they were still refusing to move I'd take my chances throwing them out and changing the locks. I'd rather pay money in a fine than be losing it to people living for free and i'd be confident that if the tenants were in the wrong then no judgment is going to be harsh against the LL.

The law is skewed in favour of the tenant unfortunately.

otwb1

Maddison Faint Grouch wrote:

To be honest if I was a LL and tenants were not paying rent and I had issued them their eviction notice correctly etc and they were still refusing to move I'd take my chances throwing them out and changing the locks. I'd rather pay money in a fine than be losing it to people living for free and i'd be confident that if the tenants were in the wrong then no judgment is going to be harsh against the LL.

Only problem is that I think the money is in compensation to the tenant? .. blinking end up paying them for not paying their rent.....

the_syco

otwb1 wrote: »

Only problem is that I think the money is in compensation to the tenant? .. blinking end up paying them for not paying their rent.....

Depends really on how long the process takes. If it only took 6 months, it'd be better doing it the legit way.
But if the process was know to take 2 years whereby you'd lose the rent, and then a hefty price getting the place ready for the next tenant, it may work out taking the hit.
You do things legit, spend money in the courts, there's no guarantee that you get the house back without thousands of euro damage.

If someone could say how long, on average, the eviction process takes after the person stops paying rent (as opposed to anti-social eviction), it'd be interesting.

Eric Cartman

the law needs to be seriously overhauled .

it should be as simple as : rent late 1 day, issued notice of arrears, after 30 days if the arrears haven't been settled notice of eviction , after 30 days of that you can legally go and change the locks and / or have the tenants forcibly removed by the gardai. This whole process would be 60 days start to finish, there should also be a facility from the prtb to gain outstanding monies for damages etc.. from tenants who leave in this manor, and a register of tenants where landlords can inform other landlords about whats likely to occur with them.

Tenants have it far too cushy in this country. (and before anyone says it Im a tenant in a rented house, so this isn't a them vs us post)

lollsangel

Eric Cartman wrote: »

the law needs to be seriously overhauled .

it should be as simple as : rent late 1 day, issued notice of arrears, after 30 days if the arrears haven't been settled notice of eviction , after 30 days of that you can legally go and change the locks and / or have the tenants forcibly removed by the gardai. This whole process would be 60 days start to finish, there should also be a facility from the prtb to gain outstanding monies for damages etc.. from tenants who leave in this manor, and a register of tenants where landlords can inform other landlords about whats likely to occur with them.

Tenants have it far too cushy in this country. (and before anyone says it Im a tenant in a rented house, so this isn't a them vs us post)

Other than issuing an arrears notice after one day I think that maybe a bit harsh, I'd agree with everything you say. Too many tenants making life harder for the rest of us. Should also be much easier to evict

foggy_lad

Aurelia Round Retiree wrote: »

To be honest if I was a LL and tenants were not paying rent and I had issued them their eviction notice correctly etc and they were still refusing to move I'd take my chances throwing them out and changing the locks. I'd rather pay money in a fine than be losing it to people living for free and i'd be confident that if the tenants were in the wrong then no judgment is going to be harsh against the LL.

This would be illegal and would also result in the LL paying all costs as well as compensation to the tenant as well as any fine.

Eric Cartman wrote: »

the law needs to be seriously overhauled .

it should be as simple as : rent late 1 day, issued notice of arrears, after 30 days if the arrears haven't been settled notice of eviction , after 30 days of that you can legally go and change the locks and / or have the tenants forcibly removed by the gardai. This whole process would be 60 days start to finish, there should also be a facility from the prtb to gain outstanding monies for damages etc.. from tenants who leave in this manor, and a register of tenants where landlords can inform other landlords about whats likely to occur with them.

Tenants have it far too cushy in this country. (and before anyone says it Im a tenant in a rented house, so this isn't a them vs us post)

Hopefully the slumlords and cowboy landlords would be rooted out and brought up to code as well as the tenants. There are still many landlords who break the law daily by not meeting even the most basic standards and then when tenants complain they find themselves illegally locked out often with their property held or destroyed by the landlord.

Eric Cartman

lollsangel wrote: »

Other than issuing an arrears notice after one day I think that maybe a bit harsh, I'd agree with everything you say. Too many tenants making life harder for the rest of us. Should also be much easier to evict

obviously 1 day would just be a legal framework , the reality is most landlords are human beings and would give a week or so before this becomes a problem, also in the notice of arrears period if you paid the outstanding rent , the process stops.

foggy_lad wrote: »

Hopefully the slumlords and cowboy landlords would be rooted out and brought up to code as well as the tenants. There are still many landlords who break the law daily by not meeting even the most basic standards and then when tenants complain they find themselves illegally locked out often with their property held or destroyed by the landlord.

this whole scenario is a mexican standoff, you have slum landlords and crappy tenants , decent landlords and good tenants , but its a landlords market so the issues with tenants have to be solved first.

if you stop paying RA etc.. to tenants and if the council insures RA properties against tenant damage you'd free up stock there, make the evictions process really quick and effective as I outlined above .

these 2 measures restore landlord confidence in the market, cut down on illegal evictions and rejecting ra tenants etc.. once landlords feel confident letting legally again then you can regulate for tenants (in saying that I do not support rent controls, forcing landlords to take welfare tenants or withholding rent until repairs are performed )

Fol20

Eric Cartman wrote: »

obviously 1 day would just be a legal framework , the reality is most landlords are human beings and would give a week or so before this becomes a problem, also in the notice of arrears period if you paid the outstanding rent , the process stops.




this whole scenario is a mexican standoff, you have slum landlords and crappy tenants , decent landlords and good tenants , but its a landlords market so the issues with tenants have to be solved first.

if you stop paying RA etc.. to tenants and if the council insures RA properties against tenant damage you'd free up stock there, make the evictions process really quick and effective as I outlined above .

these 2 measures restore landlord confidence in the market, cut down on illegal evictions and rejecting ra tenants etc.. once landlords feel confident letting legally again then you can regulate for tenants (in saying that I do not support rent controls, forcing landlords to take welfare tenants or withholding rent until repairs are performed )

How is it a landlords market? Most of the protection is geared towards tenants... Its not just an issue with RA.. you can also have private paying tenants that cause thousands worth of damage or withold rent for over a year and they are still entitled to live in the house rent free with the landlord helpless thanks to the useless legal system here.

If someone stops paying, they should be booted out after two months.
3 months deposit held in escrow should be the norm.
PRTB should have a database of both tenants and landlords so that both parties can look at any cases that might be open or closed. This isnt a hear say or she say time of thing. Its a formal document where you can read what is alleged and what the outcome is. That way both tenants and landlords can be more careful.
If there is a problematic landlords not following the rules or living up to his obligations, case should be resolved within 2 months.
In relation to RA. The tenant should pay the government x amount of money per month. Then the government will pay the landlord directly. If the tenants damages the property. The government are held liable for damages. This problematic tenant will have to pay the government back for any damages and if he refuses, he will not be entitled to RA or it will be taken directly out of his welfare payslip. The landlord would receive compensation in full directly from the government. Not in drips and drabs from the tenants. I think this would restore confidence in the RA system.

foggy_lad

Protections are biased in the tenants favour and rightly so!

If a tenant does not do as they should there is little chance of the LL being made homeless or ending up destitute but if a landlord acts illegally they are having a far greater detrimental effect on the tenants than the tenant could ever have on the landlord.

Any landlord who is having money troubles should take steps to sell up and let a proper business person rent out the property.

testaccount123

handlemaster wrote: »

The law is skewed in favour of the tenant unfortunately.

Unfortunately? Thats the way it should be.

Dr Turk Turkelton

Unfortunately in this country I think the only way to deal with a non paying tenant is to feck them out on the street and change the locks.
I'm sure by the time that one would have exhausted all the legal avenues following a PRTB ruling you could have had a passing tenant in the property for about three years.
Non paying tenants seem to be the biggest problem a landlord faces in this country and there is nothing legal that can be done against them.

Fol20

foggy_lad wrote: »

Protections are biased in the tenants favour and rightly so!

If a tenant does not do as they should there is little chance of the LL being made homeless or ending up destitute but if a landlord acts illegally they are having a far greater detrimental effect on the tenants than the tenant could ever have on the landlord.

Any landlord who is having money troubles should take steps to sell up and let a proper business person rent out the property.

If it was a " proper business", then it should be treated accordingly.. if your not paying, your out. Basically you think that its right that tenants dont follow the rules that they singed in their contract, yet when landlords dont follow those same rules, they should be fined. Its a two way street and both should be treated equally.

athtrasna

Thread closed pending mod review