Jobstown water protesters to be charged

handlemaster

http://m.rte.ie/news/2015/0813/720903-burton-water-charge-protest/

Its great to see mob rule loses in the end.

Menas

I honestly dont see them getting convicted on this one.
False imprisonment? Nah. They would be unlucky to have a jury convict them.
I dont agree with that they did though.

20Cent

A sinister development.
If you can be arrested for delaying a politician then any protest could be illegal.

VinLieger

20Cent wrote: »

A sinister development.
If you can be arrested for delaying a politician then any protest could be illegal.

It's a law whether you like it or not that you cannot delay a member of the Dail if they are trying to get there, surely that is a much more integral part of our democracy that votes on how our country is being run cannot be interfered with in this way.

Also your straw man skills suck

Penny Tration

20Cent wrote: »

A sinister development.
If you can be arrested for delaying a politician then any protest could be illegal.

They're not being arrested for delaying a politician.

They're being arrested for surrounding her car, banging repeatedly on it and shouting while doing it, thus making it too intimidating for her to leave her car. Big difference. They harassed and scared someone, while doing something that could be called criminal damage to her vehicle.

I doubt they'll be convicted, however.

Bio Mech

20Cent wrote: »

A sinister development.
If you can be arrested for delaying a politician then any protest could be illegal.

I disagree. I think it was less about the delaying of a politician and more about the scumbag behaviour of some of those there who have no interest in politics and were just looking for an excuse to act like scumbags en masse. They let the actual protestors down. You cant expect carte blanche for your behaviour just because you are at a protest "its a protest I have a democratic right to throw this bottle".

The false imprisonment charge is a nonsense thought and makes the DPP look foolish and like a government pawn. Violent conduct yes, public order yes, false imprisonment no. IMO.

fullstop

20Cent wrote: »

A sinister development.
If you can be arrested for delaying a politician then any protest could be illegal.

Sinister me arse, shower of thugs. I see the head honcho Paul Murphy giving out about it on Facebook.

conorh91

20Cent wrote: »

A sinister development.
If you can be arrested for delaying a politician then any protest could be illegal.

No. Standing at a gate and impeding entry to a building is not false imprisonment. Blocking the roads and making someone go the long way around is not false imprisonment.

These are the sorts of delay usually associated with peaceful protests.

These people are not being charged with "delaying a politician". That is not, nor was it ever, a crime.

20Cent

Seems they haven't been charged yet, the story was "leaked" to the media in advance. Political policing at its best.
Violence damage yeah of course but false imprisonment no way. Any protest outside the Dail could be deemed false imprisonment.

The Muppet

VinLieger wrote: »

It's a law whether you like it or not that you cannot delay a member of the Dail if they are trying to get there, surely that is a much more integral part of our democracy that votes on how our country is being run cannot be interfered with in this way.

Also your straw man skills suck

How were the protestors to know she was on her way to the Dail? It'll be quite a simple defence i'd imagine if it ever gets to court, I doubt it will.

RomanKnows

I would love if Paul 'The Revolution will be tweeted about' Murphy wasn't one of those charged.

OldGoat

False imprisonment:

15.—(1) A person shall be guilty of the offence of false imprisonment who intentionally or recklessly—

(a) takes or detains, or

(b) causes to be taken or detained, or

(c) otherwise restricts the personal liberty of,

another without that other's consent.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1997/en/act/pub/0026/sec0015.html


Seems pretty clear to me. Was the minister detained? You can argue circumstances all you want and even use the witness box as a platform for railing against austerity but the only question to be answered in court is, "Was the person detained and was that detention intentional or reckless?".

bucketybuck

Does it matter if they are charged? Most of them probably have dozens of convictions anyway, whats one more for the pile.

gandalf

If they charge Murphy it would be a very big mistake. It would guarantee him getting re-elected next year. I would love if they charged everyone but him. Leave him without a cross to jump on to

Coat22

gandalf wrote: »

If they charge Murphy it would be a very big mistake. It would guarantee him getting re-elected next year. I would love if they charged everyone but him. Leave him without a cross to jump on to

The only reason he got elected last time was as an alternative to the shinners. The right minded people of D6 or wherever it is brought him in as the lesser of 2 evils, not sure he'd get back in in a full general election but as you point out the martyr in him might bring out a few votes (probably to the detriment of Sinn Fein which is probably a good thing overall)

SEPT 23 1989

who gave the order to the gardai to arrest them?

BattleCorp

If there were sh1tloads of Gardai on site during this protest, why didn't they clear a path for the Minister to leave?

Charge people for throwing bricks, throwing water balloons, stealing Garda equipment etc, but the false imprisonment is a bit excessive.

If a celebrity is in a car and there is a scrum of photographers outside and they are afraid to get out of the car, does that mean that it's false imprisonment?

seamus

BattleCorp wrote: »

If there were sh1tloads of Gardai on site during this protest, why didn't they clear a path for the Minister to leave?

Because baton charging an already tense mob when they have an innocent civilian's vehicle trapped and surrounded is a stupid idea.

paulbok

The Muppet wrote: »

How were the protestors to know she was on her way to the Dail? It'll be quite a simple defence i'd imagine if it ever gets to court, I doubt it will.

She was a TD, stands to reason there was a good chance she would be going to the Dáil.

handlemaster

I dought anyone would have liked to be placed in that situation the minister was. She deserves to have the same protection as anyone else no matter what you think of her policies.

handlemaster

Waiting for the "bankers" comment

touts

Ironically if this had taken place in the sort of Socialist paradise Comrade Murphy and his mob want to impose on us they would have spent a couple of days being tortured until they were brought in front of a show trial to confess their crimes live on national TV before being dragged out a side door and shot. Now that is "political policing".

ShaShaBear

They utterly terrified a perfectly innocent person by being excessively aggressive and threatening.
Doesn't matter who she was - it was wrong.

If any single one of these people ended up trapped in their car on their way to work by a mob wielding bricks, bottles and banging on the car and the gardaí did nothing, it would be a nationwide scandal.

paulbok

ShaShaBear wrote: »

They utterly terrified a perfectly innocent person by being excessively aggressive and threatening.
Doesn't matter who she was - it was wrong.

If any single one of these people ended up trapped in their car on their way to work by a mob wielding bricks, bottles and banging on the car and the gardaí did nothing, it would be a nationwide scandal.

Or if the Gardai surrounded and blocked off their local post office to protest on dole day.

handlemaster

touts wrote: »

Ironically if this had taken place in the sort of Socialist paradise Comrade Murphy and his mob want to impose on us they would have spent a couple of days being tortured until they were brought in front of a show trial to confess their crimes live on national TV before being dragged out a side door and shot. Now that is "political policing".

LOL but you mean utopia doesnt exist !!

conorh91

The Muppet wrote: »

How were the protestors to know she was on her way to the Dail? It'll be quite a simple defence i'd imagine if it ever gets to court, I doubt it will.

The Dáil thing has nothing to do with this. Burton's destination is irrelevant, but I think she was going home.

gandalf wrote: »

If they charge Murphy it would be a very big mistake. It would guarantee him getting re-elected next year. I would love if they charged everyone but him. Leave him without a cross to jump on to

I wouldn't be surprised if he wasn't.

He could scupper his prosecution via Dáil privilege.

OldGoat

touts wrote: »

Ironically if this had taken place in the sort of Socialist paradise Comrade Murphy and his mob want to impose on us they would have spent a couple of days being tortured until they were brought in front of a show trial to confess their crimes live on national TV before being dragged out a side door and shot. Now that is "political policing".

No, that's hyperbole.

fullstop

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

who gave the order to the gardai to arrest them?

Dennis O'Brien. Don't you know they're his personal security service? Rabble rabble etc.

RomanKnows

Murphy's head looked particularly puffed-up and engorged yesterday evening as he read his statement outside the Garda Station.

The high point in his career so far as a professional socialist.

JustTheOne

handlemaster wrote: »

Waiting for the "bankers" comment

Or Angela Merkel.

falan

ShaShaBear wrote:

If any single one of these people ended up trapped in their car on their way to work by a mob wielding bricks, bottles and banging on the car and the gardaí did nothing, it would be a nationwide scandal.

Are you saying joan Burton was trapped in her car whilst a mob wielding bricks and bottles surrounded the car? That's not what happened. Hysterical much?

handlemaster

JustTheOne wrote: »

Or Angela Merkel.

Nama....

We havent seen Bertie mentioned in a long while.... someone do a connection please

seamus

handlemaster wrote: »

Waiting for the "bankers" comment

That was in effect Murphy's go-to argument this morning.

"Around the corner were two families who were living in their cars because of Joan Burton. Yet she was concerned about spending a couple of hours in hers".

He's just a complete cock. He doesn't even understand the charges against him.

boardsuser1

I wonder will people want to #talktojoan now

Specialun

I tend to not give a flying about these but i do find it odd that theyre being charged.

Farmers have blocked in factories and other protests have blocked in groups and nobody was ever charged. In my opinion the boys in the free bar brigade in the dail are using scare tactics in the hope to make people think twice about protesting in the future

gandalf

KC161 wrote: »

I wonder will people want to #talktojoan now

Naw the new hashtag is #evidencefromjoan

handlemaster

seamus wrote: »

That was in effect Murphy's go-to argument this morning.

"Around the corner were two families who were living in their cars because of Joan Burton. Yet she was concerned about spending a couple of hours in hers".

He's just a complete cock. He doesn't even understand the charges against him.

I think we all know an idiot or two ... I dont refer to their opinions when talking about anything dont know why people would

Don't Chute!

The Muppet wrote: »

How were the protestors to know she was on her way to the Dail? It'll be quite a simple defence i'd imagine if it ever gets to court, I doubt it will.

Apt username.

suicide_circus

RomanKnows wrote: »

I would love if Paul 'The Revolution will be tweeted about' Murphy wasn't one of those charged.

To quote Fat Mike, "The People's Revolution" is going to be a podcast.

Bracken81

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." JFK

Great to see some Irish people stand up for what they believe in
Of course I'm sure they're all Jobless/Dole scrounging scumbags, or at least that what the Upper & Middle classes want you to believe :-)

100gSoma

Couldn't agree more. Fair play to them taking time away from their jobs at great personal financial loss to highlight this important issue. Bravo. Pity more people couldn't make the sacrifice. Right?

Bracken81 wrote: »

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." JFK

Great to see some Irish people stand up for what they believe in
Of course I'm sure they're all Jobless/Dole scrounging scumbags, or at least that what the Upper & Middle classes want you to believe :-)

awec

Specialun wrote: »

I tend to not give a flying about these but i do find it odd that theyre being charged.

Farmers have blocked in factories and other protests have blocked in groups and nobody was ever charged. In my opinion the boys in the free bar brigade in the dail are using scare tactics in the hope to make people think twice about protesting in the future

Farmers have not acted like these thugs did during their own protests.

There is no comparison to be made.

The Muppet

paulbok wrote: »

She was a TD, stands to reason there was a good chance she would be going to the Dáil.

A good chance would hardly be conclusive proof it in a court of law, would it?

black and amber wrote: »

Apt username.

How original, did it take you long to come up with that?

The Muppet

awec wrote: »

Farmers have not acted like these thugs did during their own protests.

There is no comparison to be made.

Are you sure?
https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2512&dat=19670309&id=xwdIAAAAIBAJ&sjid=HAANAAAAIBAJ&pg=4416,1148380&hl=en



Many different groups including farmers have had dublin in gridlock many times with people stuck in thier cars unable to get to their destination. , no one has ever been charge with false imprisonment over it.

Bracken81

100gSoma wrote: »

Couldn't agree more. Fair play to them taking time away from their jobs at great personal financial loss to highlight this important issue. Bravo. Pity more people couldn't make the sacrifice. Right?

73% of the country have made a protest in their own way

Great to see a country bind together in times like this

OldGoat

The Muppet wrote: »

A good chance would hardly be conclusive proof it in a court of law, would it?

It's not a point that requires proof. It's doesn't matter where she was going, it doesn't matter that she is a TD.

The Muppet

OldGoat wrote: »

It's not a point that requires proof. It's doesn't matter where she was going, it doesn't matter that she is a TD.

Good so the next time anyone involved in a protest delays another citizen moving about the area they can be charged with false imprisonment.

The government/gardai or whoever is responsible for this farcical situation have lost the plot big time. Roll on election time.

ohnonotgmail

The Muppet wrote: »

Good so the next time anyone involved in a protest delays another citizen moving about the area they can be charged with false imprisonment.

The government/gardai or whoever is responsible for this farcical situation have lost the plot big time. Roll on election time.

if a mob surrounded you in your car and prevented you from moving for 2 hours would you be happy if the gardai did nothing?

The Muppet

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

if a mob surrounded you in your car and prevented you from moving for 2 hours would you be happy if the gardai did nothing?

I doubt very much if anyone would be charged with false imprisonment in that scenario.

syklops

The Muppet wrote: »

How were the protestors to know she was on her way to the Dail? It'll be quite a simple defence i'd imagine if it ever gets to court, I doubt it will.

If you think surrounding the car and banging on it is acceptable behaviour, then you sound like a muppet.

conorh91

The Muppet wrote: »

Good so the next time anyone involved in a protest delays another citizen moving about the area they can be charged with false imprisonment.

The Muppet wrote: »

Many different groups including farmers have had dublin in gridlock many times with people stuck in thier cars unable to get to their destination. , no one has ever been charge with false imprisonment over it.

False imprisonment requires detention within strictly-defined boundaries, e.g. a car, or a building.

A protest that simply causes a hindrance in the open environment, e.g. causing a person to take an alternative route, is not false imprisonment.

Anyone who regularly drives in central Dublin will have experience of roads being unavailable because of protests or other events. That's not a crime.