Ireland v Scotland - RWC Warm Up

awec

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Realistically that would have to be 12 at Leinster? I know there's a fair bit of roration there particularly around 6 Nations but all being equal Sexton is 10 and Kearney is 15. If Madigan wants to pick a position and stick to it it has to be 12, or play for someone else?

Would do his international chances no harm either. Our centre pairing is still quite new and Payne isn't that young, is he?

Well the problem there is, IMO, that he is really not that hot at 12.

Quin_Dub

awec wrote: »

Well the problem there is, IMO, that he is really not that hot at 12.

Think a lot depends on who's playing 10 though..

Him at 12 outside Gopperth is not a good use of his skills..same for D'Arcy to an extent..Gopperth needs a bosh merchant at 12 to fit his style of play..

Would be good to see Madigan get a decent stretch at 12 outside Sexton this season for Leinster to see if he really has what it takes there..

But agree he needs to pick a position and stick to it as much as possible..

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

shuffol wrote: »

I think the biggest positive for Madigan over Jackson right now is that he just looks more assured of himself in a green shirt whereas Jackson I think is still finding his feet at this level. Any time Madigan has come on for Ireland he's generally done quite well and not looked phased like away to France in 2014. I rate Jackson much more highly as a player but right now I'd have more confidence in Madigan coming off the bench.

That's the thing though, I have no problem with Madigan coming off the bench to close out a match. When it comes to starting a match, an important match, and playing all or most of the 80 minutes, I personally, would be happier with Jackson. Others disagree.

awec wrote: »

Well the problem there is, IMO, that he is really not that hot at 12.

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Think a lot depends on who's playing 10 though..

Him at 12 outside Gopperth is not a good use of his skills..same for D'Arcy to an extent..Gopperth needs a bosh merchant at 12 to fit his style of play..

Would be good to see Madigan get a decent stretch at 12 outside Sexton this season for Leinster to see if he really has what it takes there..

But agree he needs to pick a position and stick to it as much as possible..

I mentioned it before but there was one match last season where D'Arcy was 12 alongside Gopperth and Te'o and whatever caused it I'd never seen Gopperth or Te'o play better for Leinster.

Madigan may get a fair bit of playing time at Leinster this season, as 10 or 15, but when it comes to the big matches, the European knockout stages, he's not going to get the start in those positions, barring injury, and that's the kind of big game experience you'd want to be getting to develop and be trusted with the green shirt in the same situations.

total former

CatFromHue wrote: »

I don't know about PJ's kicking from hand but I wouldn't have thought that would be one of Madigan's strong points.

I agree on him being over rated too.

I don't think Madigan is over rated, very few people rate him at all... which is fair enough, he's great at what he does, impact sub, unerring boot, versatility etc, but he's not nearly a complete outhalf.

He might get there, David Humphreys matured greatly in his late 20s and would have had similar issues to Mads, but as of now, I'd be nervous enough.

.ak

awec wrote: »

This season maybe, but long term?

Why not?

Although, to be fair, I can't see the current coaching setup helping in his progress. But maybe being a specialist '22' is exactly what he needs for his career. The money he's on + appearance fees must be good, if he moved away and concentrated on being a 10 then he'll probably slip behind Jackson and his game time in an Irish jersey will be limited.

dub_skav

.ak wrote: »

Why not?

Although, to be fair, I can't see the current coaching setup helping in his progress. But maybe being a specialist '22' is exactly what he needs for his career. The money he's on + appearance fees must be good, if he moved away and concentrated on being a 10 then he'll probably slip behind Jackson and his game time in an Irish jersey will be limited.

It's an interesting point. He has certainly never struggled to male the matchday squad, if not the team. Fulltime squad member could be a real position in modern rugby.

awec

He's the Ole Gunnar Solskjaer of Leinster.

shootermacg

My take on Mads, his kicking is mostly good. For the most part he played a solid 10 game against scotland.
Two things that stick out, for me, his bad restart, and his missed kick to put us beyond a converted try (it was possibly his easiest kick too).
Things like that can really bite you in the arse during big games. You don't need to be the best 10 in the history of the game, but you must get the simple stuff right!

.ak

Ah I wouldn't worry about the missed kick at all. Madigan is the best goal kicker in the squad, but he's not going to be 100% in every game.

shootermacg

.ak wrote: »

Ah I wouldn't worry about the missed kick at all. Madigan is the best goal kicker in the squad, but he's not going to be 100% in every game.

I've no problem with a kicker's stats (kicking from the wings has a big effect on stats) but when they're sitters, there's something on the line and its a missed kick then i get worried.

.ak

shootermacg wrote: »

I've no problem with a kicker's stats (kicking from the wings has a big effect on stats) but when they're sitters, there's something on the line and its a missed kick then i get worried.

Personally I don't. All kicks, no matter where they are, are hard. So many variables effect a kick, not just the position on the pitch, the angle or the distance but things like how's your conditioning, your breathing, your ability to recover, slow your heart rate down, how tight are your legs, hips, etc.

Players miss sitters all the time. It's really the all over percentage you need to be looking at. It's like when people couldn't get over that missed kick that Sexton had against NZ, or France... but ignore all the difficult kicks and the percentages he made in those games. If someone is kicking at over 80% in a decent scoring game that's a good result.

Until you take a kicking tee after slogging it in a few rucks it's really hard to form an opinion on this, but all I'll say is there's no such thing as 'sitters' in place kicking during a game.

connachta

irishbucsfan wrote: »

But it's not like he's completely past it and he's being selected ONLY because of his experience. He played well for Leinster last season, there were periods when he was the only Irish 9 playing well (with Murray out injured). He played poorly last weekend but he's not being selected based on that standard of play + experience, he's being selected based on the ability that allowed him to play much better than that last season as well as his off-field impact.

Oh, come on!

POC+Trimble+SOB+Healy+Kearney are more than enough for experience/teamroom

Once again Boss played last spring, and obviously lost this level, Marmion played well the last 2 years (except this spring), and is back to his level. What's relevant is at least debatable

The only point you have is using future tense instead of conditional "will" and not "would" "should" be in the plane. Or preterit Schmidt "made" his choice, and not "seems to have made".
I hope, desperatly hope, Marmion will get the nod in the end just to slam all those assertive positions down

molloyjh

connachta wrote: »

Oh, come on!

POC+Trimble+SOB+Healy+Kearney are more than enough for experience/teamroom

Once again Boss played last spring, and obviously lost this level, Marmion played well the last 2 years (except this spring), and is back to his level. What's relevant is at least debatable

The only point you have is using future tense instead of conditional "will" and not "would" "should" be in the plane. Or preterit Schmidt "made" his choice, and not "seems to have made".
I hope, desperatly hope, Marmion will get the nod in the end just to slam all those assertive positions down

I'd love to know how you can say that Marmion is back to his best when he played all of 10 minutes against Wales and the Connacht game in France wasn't in any way televised.....

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

shootermacg wrote: »

I've no problem with a kicker's stats (kicking from the wings has a big effect on stats) but when they're sitters, there's something on the line and its a missed kick then i get worried.

He did it against Scotland in the 6 Nations too. Granted we had that match well won but given the winning margin needed and the England match still to come it was quite an important kick. He wasn't long on the pitch then either so fatigue can't be blamed.

The argument last week against Jackson was he missed two kicks and those two kicks could cost you the game against one of the big teams. If it applies to Jackson it applies to Madigan.

Although the idea of anyone kicking 100% is ridiculous unless they're only getting one kick from right in front of the posts.

dub_skav

.ak wrote: »

Until you take a kicking tee after slogging it in a few rucks it's really hard to form an opinion on this, but all I'll say is there's no such thing as 'sitters' in place kicking during a game.

What would you know about rucks :pac:

connachta

molloyjh wrote: »

I'd love to know how you can say that Marmion is back to his best when he played all of 10 minutes against Wales and the Connacht game in France wasn't in any way televised.....

I was at the game in France. He didn't play perfeclty but really well. Fast to come to the rucks, breakthroughs, quicker balls then Cooney, that's all I ask from a 3rd choice SH

.ak

dub_skav wrote: »

What would you know about rucks :pac:

About as much as place kicking!


Feck all!! :pac::pac:

irishbucsfan

connachta wrote: »

I was at the game in France. He didn't play perfeclty but really well. Fast to come to the rucks, breakthroughs, quicker balls then Cooney, that's all I ask from a 3rd choice SH

How long was he on the pitch? I thought he only came on briefly at the end?

If he only came on at the end then there's no comparision to be made between the performances, playing 10 minutes at the end of a match is a completely different thing to playing the majority.

vienne86

irishbucsfan wrote: »

How long was he on the pitch? I thought he only came on briefly at the end?

If he only came on at the end then there's no comparision to be made between the performances, playing 10 minutes at the end of a match is a completely different thing to playing the majority.

I thought I heard he was on for 40 minutes.

connachta

vienne86 wrote: »

I thought I heard he was on for 40 minutes.

He was playing the 2nd half (I'm not sure about the first 2-3 minutes because I was ordering a sandwich, but doesn't change much:pac:)

.ak

I think the important question here is....


... What was on the sandwich?

connachta

irishbucsfan wrote: »

How long was he on the pitch? I thought he only came on briefly at the end?

If he only came on at the end then there's no comparision to be made between the performances, playing 10 minutes at the end of a match is a completely different thing to playing the majority.

40+13 is nearly comparable to 65 minutes played by Boss (that was the aim of Schmidt, to give him gametime)

total former

connachta wrote: »

40+13 is nearly comparable to 65 minutes played by Boss (that was the aim of Schmidt, to give him gametime)

Only if you consider a pre-season club friendly comparable to an international.

connachta

.ak wrote: »

I think the important question here is....


... What was on the sandwich?

If I answer anything, I'll be banned for flood productiion (but still : sausage, tasted at best average like Boss game:P)

.ak

That's disappointing.

irishbucsfan

connachta wrote: »

40+13 is nearly comparable to 65 minutes played by Boss (that was the aim of Schmidt, to give him gametime)

Oh did he play 40 minutes? That's a different story in that case.

The Connacht game is unlikely to help him though, I'd really like to see him get 20/30 minutes for Ireland before the squad is cut down, I'm fairly confident we will.

connachta

total former wrote: »

Only if you consider a pre-season club friendly comparable to an international.

I do, Castres, only a week from Top 14 beginning, has not much to envy to Scotland tbh

connachta

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Oh did he play 40 minutes? That's a different story in that case.

The Connacht game is unlikely to help him though, I'd really like to see him get 20/30 minutes for Ireland before the squad is cut down, I'm fairly confident we will.

I am, too:)

shootermacg

Boss was always considered when Leinster knew they had a tough, war of attrition type of game to play. He did himself no favours with missed tackles, when he was mostly selected for his physicality.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

shootermacg wrote: »

Boss was always considered when Leinster knew they had a tough, war of attrition type of game to play. He did himself no favours with missed tackles, when he was mostly selected for his physicality.

Speaking of....

I was looking for something else and found this nice bit of skill from Paddy Jackson from earlier this year. Pretty sure that's Boss he gets past first, before slipping a few more tackles and steamrolling Gopperth.