Landlord issues

Meow_35

Hi,

i just wanted to get some advice on a situation my husband and I are in. We are living in a property since end of Nov last year. A couple of months back our landlord called in and wanted to ask us to switch our Electric & Gas bills over to his name. He also asked us not to tell anyone that is was just us living here, he wants it to look like the property is owner-occupied, for obvious reason. He also mentioned that his accountant thought it might be a good idea to draft up a new lease saying it was owner occupied and that he would have us sign this. Now, that hasn't happened and to be honest..we were never going to sign that lease anyway as it's not true.

So, ever since the utility bills were switched over to his name (he had to open a new account under his name, plus the direct debit is out of his bank account)..we've had nothing but trouble. We got the first bill in and it included some sort of set up fee for €200 which we knew wasn't ours to pay..so we paid over what we owed to him on top of the rent and we have been doing this ever since. We have been getting arrears notices pretty much every 2nd week...it doesn't look like he's paying the bills and he hasn't paid the €200 yet either. We've also had disconnection notices and each time we get these we send him a text straight away plus we call him...it takes him forever to get back..sometimes a couple of days....the last time we got a notice, my husband texted him and he was down the road so he called in..took the notices and said he was going to sort. That was about a a month ago.

My husband called Electric Ireland today and got a very nasty lady in customer service how kept talking over him and just wouldn't listen to the issue and she said there is nothing they can do..they won't even activate our account until his account is paid and closed. Even if we were to change the direct debit to come out of our account, she said the arrears he owes would be in our name..how ridiculous is that?? She said the arrears are attached to the property.

We had received another warning letter yesterday morning advising if arrears weren't paid we would be disconnected and my husband texted our landlord straight away. Of course we haven't heard back from him and my husband has sent another text today. Nothing back.

We're struggling a little with what to do. PRTB & Threshold advised me that he is in breach of the conditions in the lease and that we're entitled to give our notice because of that but I'm just wondering has this happened to anyone before?

i'm so sick of bad landlords....there are decent tenants out there who treat a property like their own home and they get treated like this. We've had lots of bad luck with landlords and were hoping we wouldn't have the same problem here but we do.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks

the_syco

Meow_35 wrote: »

he wants it to look like the property is owner-occupied, for obvious reason.

Obvious reason = he can evict you for no reason at 24 hours notice?

Meow_35

Hi Syco,

Well no..our signed lease was put together by DNG and it clearly states we have a fixed term lease with him for a year so he's not registered as owner occupied.. We have the proof it's not. He's avoiding property tax.

L1011

the_syco wrote: »

Obvious reason = he can evict you for no reason at 24 hours notice?

More obvious reason = he's not paying a cent in tax.

Meow_35

L1011 - exactly! He owns a lot of properties apparently around the country...OR he has a dodgy accountant.

testaccount123

Meow_35 wrote: »

So, ever since the utility bills were switched over to his name

Why, oh why would you agree to that? Theres very little you can do here, you'll be lucky if Electric Ireland even let you settle the landlords account.

Theres a lot of tenants on here lately complaining that the landlord 'made them' do things - your landlord is not your school teacher lads.

Flatzie_poo

Live and learn OP, a really bad situation you've gotten yourself into.

I'd give your notice, paying an extra few quid a month in rent is outweighed by having a reputable landlord...

vandriver

"The (electricity) arrears are attached to the property"
Eh,no

filbert the fox

Meow_35 wrote: »

Hi Syco,

Well no..our signed lease was put together by DNG and it clearly states we have a fixed term lease with him for a year so he's not registered as owner occupied.. We have the proof it's not. He's avoiding property tax.

my guess is that he's availing of the grossly unfair Rent a Room scheme.

Meow_35

Thanks for advice all. Testaccount..the only reason we agreed to it was firstly we were put on the spot..we were only in the property a couple of months and didn't fancy falling out with the landlord so soon into the lease PLUS we weren't here 6 months yet so felt like we needed to keep him sweet until then. We have had to move a number of times the last few years because of the properties either getting sold OR bad landlords.
We trusted he would just look after it.people do still trust other people sometimes. i'm not looking to be given out to here..just looking for some solid advice and other people's experiences with similar situation
We are actually going to see another property this weekend so we will very likely be giving him notice anyway. And yes, we have learnt from this.
I spoke to Threshold and PRTB and they said we're well within our rights to set the account up in our name again and we're not considering setting up a new account with another provider anyway.

the_syco

Meow_35 wrote: »

He also mentioned that his accountant thought it might be a good idea to draft up a new lease saying it was owner occupied and that he would have us sign this.

As well as tax reasons, you'd have very little rights

Meow_35 wrote: »

So, ever since the utility bills were switched over to his name

The bill is in his name, so no reason for EI to talk to you.

Meow_35 wrote: »

We have been getting arrears notices pretty much every 2nd week...it doesn't look like he's paying the bills and he hasn't paid the €200 yet either.

Ask him for proof that he's paying the bills, otherwise they money that you're paying him isn't for the bills. I'd also kiss your deposit goodbye, if he's using your bills money to generate income!

Meow_35 wrote: »

She said the arrears are attached to the property.

That's a new one to me, as bills would usually follow the person paying them (or not).

Meow_35 wrote: »

i'm so sick of bad landlords....there are decent tenants out there who treat a property like their own home and they get treated like this. We've had lots of bad luck with landlords and were hoping we wouldn't have the same problem here but we do.

You were fairly complicit with the changing of the bills to the landlords name, knowing that it was dodgy, so although the landlord is dodgy, you reap what you sow. Next time a dodgy landlord asks you to do something dodgy, say no.

testaccount123

You knew what he was doing was fraud, you assisted him and now you are surprised when he turns out to act like this. Difficult to have any sympathy. Best advice is to move out and take the lessons learned here on board.

punisher5112

Bills are in LL name as he wanted keep account of all money paid out.

Keep money to the side for bills just in case do not give him it for now and maybe think of investment in a generator as yee may need 1.

km991148

"keeping landlords sweet.." jaysus.. they are providing a service that you have a contract for. You have rights - please don't ever get into such a situation again - you are renting a home, not a conduit for paying dodgy landlords mortgages.

As far as the bill.. make sure you write to the bank revoking your DD authorisation (even if I were to allow the landlords name to be used, I would definitely not have given my bank account!). Next get onto ESB and open a new account. They did not believe you before/ fob you off as it looks to them like its one person 'at it'. Don't go into detail with ESB just get a new account setup for today. The arrears will follow the landlord. He wanted you to go into this scheme so by not paying ESB he can suffer the consequences. If needs be stick with the story where the landlord moved in but has now done a runner but would be better not to even go into this. Give ESB the landlords actual address if needed - then they try chasing the bill..

Finally - start looking elsewhere if possible - this doesn't look like it is the start of a long term beautiful relationship!

Good luck!

km991148

testaccount123 wrote: »

Difficult to have any sympathy.

while I agree that they shouldn't have done this - this seems a little harsh to me- some people find it tough dealing with landlords - especially with so many horror stories - its not as if op had any benefit from it - they just wanted to get along with the new LL.

However - it does look like there will be a house move some point soon..

Meow_35

Hey KM,

oh no, we do'nt have our bank details against his bills. The direct debit is coming out of his bank account and we're paying the bill amounts over to him when they come in. So it's not coming out of our account which is why ESB won't go into details with us. We do have an ESB account but it was closed when the switch happened.

I think "keeping him sweet" are the wrong words....we were doing him a favour..we didn't think properly and felt under pressure. We had really only just moved in and didn't see the huge deal in it at the time but we definately should have gone with our gut. Definately lesson learned.

The ESB told my husband (or the very unfriendly, unhelpful lady) that they won't and can't open up 2 accounts with the same address. I think it really depends on who you get in that place. So, for now we're going to send him a letter advising him to pay the arrears and confirm in writing to us all arrears are paid or we're referring the matter to PRTB. We're also going to see what we can do as far as setting up another account in our name and start from scratch, let him deal with the arrears..just not sure how it will work having disconnection notices on one account and then a new account..just don't think it's possible.

Meow_35

KM..you're very right there. Problem right now is there is a lack of properties and in a lot of cases lack of decent properties. We want to buy a house of our own but just not in a financial position right now to do that so we're heavily reliant on finding long term rentals (which is impossible right now) and decent, trustworthy landlords. We were renting a beautiful house up until last Nov and unfornatuely it was sold which is the only reason we had to leave. Got on very well with our landlord there and he gave us a great ref.

We wanted to get on with our new landlord and we didn't want any conflict early on in the lease. We knew it wasn't an ideal situation but we really did think it would be fine. It's just gradually escalated. I think a lot of landlords feel they have the upper hand because if tenants have to go it's just harder to find properties.

testaccount123

No electricity supplier will open an account while there is already one for the address.

athtrasna

punisher5112 wrote: »

Bills are in LL name as he wanted keep account of all money paid out.

Keep money to the side for bills just in case do not give him it for now and maybe think of investment in a generator as yee may need 1.

This makes no sense. The landlord is not responsible for tenants' bills. The op has explained the landlord 's logic and it appears to be an effort to fraudulently abuse the rent a room tax relief.

CaoimheSquee

km991148 wrote: »

while I agree that they shouldn't have done this - this seems a little harsh to me- some people find it tough dealing with landlords - especially with so many horror stories - its not as if op had any benefit from it - they just wanted to get along with the new LL.

However - it does look like there will be a house move some point soon..

Hear hear.
And keeping landlords sweet is completely understandable. The market out there is insane.

punisher5112

athtrasna wrote: »

This makes no sense. The landlord is not responsible for tenants' bills. The op has explained the landlord 's logic and it appears to be an effort to fraudulently abuse the rent a room tax relief.

It makes perfect sense op said they are paying LL money for bills but bills are not been paid.

athtrasna

punisher5112 wrote: »

It makes perfect sense op said they are paying LL money for bills but bills are not been paid.

He wanted to keep account of all money "paid out"- That's the part that makes no sense

zl1whqvjs75cdy

In essence your landlord is pocketing your ESB money and has also probably spent your deposit. I'd terminate now if I was you, or give notice to at least.

Mrs OBumble

OP, whatever the rights or wrongs of it, you are now complicit to tax fraud (or whatever the legal term for it is here).

Find somewhere else to live, and report the situation to Revenue ASAP.

Best case you simply have to move houses again.

km991148

Meow_35 wrote: »

The ESB told my husband (or the very unfriendly, unhelpful lady) that they won't and can't open up 2 accounts with the same address. I think it really depends on who you get in that place. So, for now we're going to send him a letter advising him to pay the arrears and confirm in writing to us all arrears are paid or we're referring the matter to PRTB. We're also going to see what we can do as far as setting up another account in our name and start from scratch, let him deal with the arrears..just not sure how it will work having disconnection notices on one account and then a new account..just don't think it's possible.

Try again with another person in ESB. Go to the new accounts section (don't call the arrears people - they put up with a a lot of sh!te all day every day so you prob wont get the most helpful person)

Stick with the story that you told them when the landlord moved in- person X (dont even refer to them as the landlord/owner etc) moved in and took over the bills. He then moved out and you are the current occupiers. If you are a couple and only one of ye had the account last time then use the other person this time and dont even try with the old story - just tell them you want a new account.

Whats important is that you get an electricity bill and you can control your own paying of it. The landlord wanted responsibility (as far as ESB are concerned) and he has to stick with that. You have responsibility to pay the bills as per your lease (and as far as I can tell you paid the LL so you are covered.. hopefully you have receipts?)

Note tho - if you do open a new account then you will most likely have to pay a big deposit or set up a dd.

It might also be possible to tell the LL what you are about to do - this might just scare him into getting his act together and paying the bills - but I doubt it as by this stage he probably has what he needs - an ESB bill with his name on it.. Also - its not advisable as you want to be in control of your own bill and not part of any tax scam he is pulling.

testaccount123

km991148 wrote: »

Try again with another person in ESB. Go to the new accounts section (don't call the arrears people - they put up with a a lot of sh!te all day every day so you prob wont get the most helpful person)

Stick with the story that you told them when the landlord moved in- person X (dont even refer to them as the landlord/owner etc) moved in and took over the bills. He then moved out and you are the current occupiers. If you are a couple and only one of ye had the account last time then use the other person this time and dont even try with the old story - just tell them you want a new account.

Whats important is that you get an electricity bill and you can control your own paying of it. The landlord wanted responsibility (as far as ESB are concerned) and he has to stick with that. You have responsibility to pay the bills as per your lease (and as far as I can tell you paid the LL so you are covered.. hopefully you have receipts?)

Note tho - if you do open a new account then you will most likely have to pay a big deposit or set up a dd.

It might also be possible to tell the LL what you are about to do - this might just scare him into getting his act together and paying the bills - but I doubt it as by this stage he probably has what he needs - an ESB bill with his name on it.. Also - its not advisable as you want to be in control of your own bill and not part of any tax scam he is pulling.

You cant have two electricity supply accounts for the same physical address.

petes

Does the bill still have the €200 'deposit' on it? If it does it usually means they haven't signed up to DD.

punisher5112

athtrasna wrote: »

He wanted to keep account of all money "paid out"- That's the part that makes no sense

no mean op keep account... Sorry just noticed I left no space. Sorry bout that.

foggy_lad

testaccount123 wrote: »

You cant have two electricity supply accounts for the same physical address.

So the OP rings up the new accounts section in Electric Ireland and sets up a new account stating that the old tenant has moved out and they are new tenants. electric ireland should then close the old account with a final reading from the OP and they then chase after the landlord for that closed off bill while they start a new billing account for the OP using the same meter reading.

As stated if the op rings and talks about arrears or their landlord etc they will get nowhere but if they treat the account as nothing to do with them and rings the new accounts section they will be treated as new tenants and an account will be opened for them!

zl1whqvjs75cdy

I think the current supplier need to "release" the account to the new supplier before a swap over. If there is arrears on the bill this release doesn't happen AFAIK.

km991148

testaccount123 wrote: »

You cant have two electricity supply accounts for the same physical address.

foggy_lad wrote: »

So the OP rings up the new accounts section in Electric Ireland and sets up a new account stating that the old tenant has moved out and they are new tenants. electric ireland should then close the old account with a final reading from the OP and they then chase after the landlord for that closed off bill while they start a new billing account for the OP using the same meter reading.

As stated if the op rings and talks about arrears or their landlord etc they will get nowhere but if they treat the account as nothing to do with them and rings the new accounts section they will be treated as new tenants and an account will be opened for them!

ye exactly.. ye cant have two current supply accounts. But the goal is to get one legit supply bill for the op to be able to just pay their bill and get on with life.

The op shouldn't have went down this route, but they did so need a fix.
The fix (to sign up a new account preferably in the other halfs name) may be slightly questionable, but in my mind they are morally fine as they seem to have paid their bill (the landlord).

They need to get out of this loop and let the supplier chase the bill payer and get on with their lives!

km991148

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

I think the current supplier need to "release" the account to the new supplier before a swap over. If there is arrears on the bill this release doesn't happen AFAIK.

Keep the same supplier for now - just get them to acknowledge the previous bill payer is now gone and they are the sole occupiers.

You are right - trying to switch providers during this mess wont work/ will add difficulty - but I don't think that was the suggestion.

testaccount123

foggy_lad wrote: »

if they treat the account as nothing to do with them and rings the new accounts section they will be treated as new tenants and an account will be opened for them!

No it wont, the agent will see there is already an open account for that MPRN and wont be able to. Its not that complicated.

km991148

testaccount123 wrote: »

No it wont, the agent will see there is already an open account for that MPRN and wont be able to. Its not that complicated.

I have been in a situation before where the previous tenants left with arrears and the account was opened no problem.

The only complication I see is that if new people are opening an account when they already had an account. But if one person had the account previously then the other person opens now then its not a problem.

foggy_lad

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

I think the current supplier need to "release" the account to the new supplier before a swap over. If there is arrears on the bill this release doesn't happen AFAIK.

Any arrears are between the supplier and the person named on the bill at the time of the arrears, nothing to do with any new account holder.

testaccount123 wrote: »

No it wont, the agent will see there is already an open account for that MPRN and wont be able to. Its not that complicated.

If I ring up to open a new account and give a starting meter reading any previous accounts are nothing to do with me and must be closed once I declare that I am now the account holder from meter reading 12345678.

It is then up to the supplier to chase the old tenant/owner/account holder for any arrears or charges that they had left unpaid!

Only lazy companies with no real prospects and no proper business ethics would try to make a new account holder chase up and collect arrears created by old account holders who may be untraceable!

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