Clinicians, tube drivers and teachers`

steddyeddy · 08-08-2015 2:43pm #1

There's been a tube strike occurring in London over the last few days. The tube drivers make 55k a year which is more than the average English person with similar training makes a year. Teachers are on less yet undertake several years of training. Doctors such as junior doctors also receive less than tube drivers.

If you could redesign pay scales of different forms of employment from scratch which profession would you reduce payment for and which would you give a pay rise to.

Personally I don't think anyone should complain about another workers relatively high pay. Unless there's a barrier to entry such as gender, economic status or race then we are all capable of choosing our own profession.

On the pay scale thing I think teachers and scientists should earn more and people in marketing or commerce earn less relative to the former.

Sheep Lover · 08-08-2015 2:56pm

Teachers to earn alot less. And pay rises to strippers and politicians.

DEFTLEFTHAND · 08-08-2015 2:57pm

Junior Nurses and Gardai deserve a better starting rate imo. They need to have a liveable wage, especially if they're based in the likes of Dublin.

steddyeddy · 08-08-2015 2:59pm

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Junior Nurses and Gardai deserve a better starting rate imo. They need to have a liveable wage, especially if they're based in the likes of Dublin.

Is there not a Dublin allowance similar to the London allowance?

DEFTLEFTHAND · 08-08-2015 3:00pm

steddyeddy wrote: »

Is there not a Dublin allowance similar to the London allowance?

Maybe there is, I don't know though.

steddyeddy · 08-08-2015 3:02pm

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Maybe there is, I don't know though.

I'm a Dubliner and should know!

Son Of A Vidic · 08-08-2015 3:24pm

steddyeddy wrote: »

If you could redesign pay scales of different forms of employment from scratch which profession would you reduce payment for and which would you give a pay rise to.

Bankers would have to go straight to the bottom of the pay scale. They contribute nothing to society apart from a reckless & cyclical repetition of incompetence and gambling. Which inevitable ends up with us bailing them out. I would closely follow the bankers, with the overpaid clowns running the HSE. I'd recommend pay increases for graduate nurses, new gardaí, those newly qualified within a healthcare discipline and I would also add newly qualified science & technology graduates to this list.

steddyeddy · 08-08-2015 3:28pm

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Bankers would have to go straight to the bottom of the pay scale. They contribute nothing to society apart from a reckless & cyclical repetition of incompetence and gambling. Which inevitable ends up with us bailing them out. I would closely follow the bankers, with the overpaid clowns running the HSE. I'd recommend pay increases for graduate nurses, new gardaí, those newly qualified within a healthcare discipline and I would also add newly qualified science & technology graduates to this list.

Here's the thing. Bankers have particularly cushy job in Ireland. In India (where my ex is from) they work 6-7 days a week and are often highly qualified. The degrees needed to enter banking aren't exactly rocket science (unless it's at the higher end). I knew a guy who entered from the bottom with just a leaving cert. It's not a highly qualified job most of the time.

steddyeddy · 08-08-2015 3:37pm

Let's take science or law. I don;t know a lot about law but I know the degree is only a small part of it. You also need to do devling (maybe I'm out of date so correction needed please). You need to make a name for your self.

Same with science. A 4 year degree, then a 4 year PhD and then if you successfully defend your thesis you get your doctorate. You have to publish within the PhD if you want employment after that. Not easy.

DEFTLEFTHAND · 08-08-2015 3:40pm

steddyeddy wrote: »

Here's the thing. Bankers have particularly cushy job in Ireland. In India (where my ex is from) they work 6-7 days a week and are often highly qualified. The degrees needed to enter banking aren't exactly rocket science (unless it's at the higher end). I knew a guy who entered from the bottom with just a leaving cert. It's not a highly qualified job most of the time.

Many of the top brass in banking over years held no post secondary qualifications, go in at the bottom learn the ropes and politic your way up the ranks. When I left school in 2007 I was approaced by the local AIB branch manager (who is a friend of my fathers:pac:) about joining them instead of going to college.

Junkyard Tom · 08-08-2015 3:57pm

steddyeddy wrote: »

Personally I don't think anyone should complain about another workers relatively high pay. Unless there's a barrier to entry

Would you consider immigration control a barrier to entry for graduates from China/India/Pakistan/Indonesia/Nigeria/The Philippines?

DEFTLEFTHAND · 08-08-2015 4:06pm

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Would you consider immigration control a barrier to entry for graduates from China/India/Pakistan/Indonesia/Nigeria/The Philippines?

Is there not a graduate visa system in place for people with skillsets in demand in this country, such as in the health sector for eg.

JuliusCaesar · 08-08-2015 4:10pm

There is no Dublin living allowance, nothing like London Weighting at all.

It was spoken about some years ago, but nothing came of it.

Mr_Muffin · 08-08-2015 4:14pm

Same way the nurses here give out 24/7. Don't do the job if all you are going to do if give out about it. There a plenty of tougher jobs with less pay out there.

steddyeddy · 08-08-2015 4:17pm

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

There is no Dublin living allowance, nothing like London Weighting at all.

It was spoken about some years ago, but nothing came of it.

I'd sort of agree with it! What about psychologists J? If you remember I had aspirations to be one. Unfortunately I didn't get in because I lacked the background.

Junkyard Tom · 08-08-2015 4:20pm

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Is there not a graduate visa system in place for people with skillsets in demand in this country, such as in the health sector for eg.

Ah sure why not just have an open borders policy?

steddyeddy · 08-08-2015 4:23pm

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Many of the top brass in banking over years held no post secondary qualifications, go in at the bottom learn the ropes and politic your way up the ranks. When I left school in 2007 I was approaced by the local AIB branch manager (who is a friend of my fathers:pac:) about joining them instead of going to college.

That it absolutely crackers. How would they not have a degree FFS?

steddyeddy · 08-08-2015 4:24pm

Mr_Muffin wrote: »

Same way the nurses here give out 24/7. Don't do the job if all you are going to do if give out about it. There a plenty of tougher jobs with less pay out there.

Not many tougher jobs.

Vandango · 08-08-2015 4:26pm

Mr_Muffin wrote: »

Same way the nurses here give out 24/7. Don't do the job if all you are going to do if give out about it.

I think you must be hallucinating because I can't remember the last time I've seen that happen here.

Are you a touchy teacher by any chance?:pac:

sabat · 08-08-2015 4:41pm

steddyeddy wrote: »

That it absolutely crackers. How would they not have a degree FFS?

A couple of guys in my year at school (late 90s) with 500+ points went straight into banks after the Leaving. If you're intelligent enough to pass the professional qualification exams, I don't see the need for a degree-it's not even a strict requirement to practice law here.

steddyeddy · 08-08-2015 4:44pm

sabat wrote: »

A couple of guys in my year at school (late 90s) with 500+ points went straight into banks after the Leaving. If you're intelligent enough to pass the professional qualification exams, I don't see the need for a degree-it's not even a strict requirement to practice law here.

Well a leaving cert isn't an indication of intelligence at all at all IMO. A degree is still a learning test depending on what degree you do. For instance a science degree can teach you problem solving abilities and what not.

That is ridiculous. Really find that hard to believe.

TGJD · 08-08-2015 4:52pm

Doctors and nurses at all levels to receive more. Civil servants to get less.

gctest50 · 08-08-2015 4:59pm

steddyeddy wrote: »

Well a leaving cert isn't an indication of intelligence at all at all IMO. A degree is still a learning test depending on what degree you do. For instance a science degree can teach you problem solving abilities and what not.

That is ridiculous. Really find that hard to believe.

lots of things are like that - when you are upside-down in your car ......lol ..... 5 passes :

What qualifications do I need to become a Paramedic?
The entry criteria are under review presently. The last entry criteria required that Candidates must meet the following requirements;
Be the holder of full clean C1 driving licence (no restrictions) Paramedic students will be required to obtain a full D1 driving licence prior to being offered employment, following paramedic qualification.

Have a good standard of education. Potential students will be required to hold a minimum of 5 passes, including maths and a science subject, at leaving certificate pass or honours level.

http://www.hse.ie/eng/services/list/3/nas/Paramedic%20FAQs.html

steddyeddy · 08-08-2015 5:14pm

gctest50 wrote: »

lots of things are like that - when you are upside-down in your car ......lol ..... 5 passes :

That's the advertisement! I know several paramedics who hold diplomas in science and engineering. Anyway that's an entry level job. Don't tell me we're sending people to the top of a bank without further training.

DEFTLEFTHAND · 08-08-2015 5:24pm

steddyeddy wrote: »

That it absolutely crackers. How would they not have a degree FFS?

Although I didn't take them up on the offer I seriously considered it, you can work your way into many industries without a degree. For instance the legal profession like sabat mentioned above, in theory anybody could apply to Blackhall Place to take a preliminary examination and interview (basically to test that you have a certain standard of intelligence), if the candidate passes this exam they're permitted to take FE1 examinations, pass these and complete the professional practice course and apprenticeship and you're a qualified solicitor recognised and governed by the Law Society. With Kings Inns, they'll require you to do a Diploma through them before going into the Barrister at Law programme.

However in practice it's usually only legal secretaries and law clerks with years of experience working in a law office who take this route. It would be very difficult for somebody with no background in law to get through the FE1s.

Guy:Incognito · 08-08-2015 5:33pm

steddyeddy wrote: »

Don't tell me we're sending people to the top of a bank without further training.

No one said that. People are giving out that you can finish school, join a bank and work your way to the top. I dont see whats wrong with starting at the bottom and working your way up.

TBH its pointless even discussing it because no matter what point is put forward its all going to boil down to "rabble rabble rabble, ****ing bankers, grr" . People dont even say what they mean when they say "bankers". Are we talking everyone that works in a bank, all the way up to the CEO and everyone in between, are we talking traders? what?

At the end of the day, if people want to blame the worlds or their problems on "bankers" or Denis O'Brien, tbh the best approach is to just nod along and change the subject, they dont want debate on it, just agreement.

gctest50 · 08-08-2015 5:52pm

steddyeddy wrote: »

That's the advertisement! I know several paramedics who hold diplomas in science and engineering. ........

that doesn't guarantee they'd be any better than the person with 5 passes though

steddyeddy · 08-08-2015 6:40pm

gctest50 wrote: »

that doesn't guarantee they'd be any better than the person with 5 passes though

No it doesn't but I think we can now stop saying bankers are highly qualified people. Some are some aren't.

steddyeddy · 08-08-2015 6:55pm

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

No one said that. People are giving out that you can finish school, join a bank and work your way to the top. I dont see whats wrong with starting at the bottom and working your way up.

First of all I don't blame the banks exclusively for the financial crisis. I don't think they're particularly well paid at the bottom. I blame some of the public, the construction sector and the banks for giving credit to stupid projects and people. So in order words I'm not having a go at the bankers in the way you might be used to.

I said I knew people get employed and rise up through the banks because their father worked in the bank over people with degrees in maths say.

This is why I lack respect for the industry relative to a lot of others.

Clinicians, tube drivers and teachers`

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