VWP for The U.S. immediately after a J1 Visa?

brenchy

I am currently in The States on a J1 graduate visa for 14 months. When my J1 expires, I wish to leave to Mexico for a weekend and return to the States on a ESTA wiaver visa to do a bit more travelling in The States. Has anyone done this? Or have any information about this? I am told it's all going to depend on the immigration officer at border control whether they let me back in or not. This all seems sort of scary.

iusedtoknow

Generally speaking, this is not recommended, especially coming off a visa and wanting to visit immediately after your visa has expired. Let's face it...the border guard is thinking you are going to continue to work for a few months etc - 50K illegal irish in the country has logic and math on his side.

Mexico (if you are on the ESTA) does not reset your time in the US - however, I am not sure what the situation is when coming off a visa and trying to re-enter. Personally..I wouldn't try it. You could get in with no issues, but you could also not be allowed in and have to figure out how to get back Ireland from some random Mexican border town without your stuff , that I am assuming you are leaving in the US.

brenchy

iusedtoknow wrote: »

Generally speaking, this is not recommended, especially coming off a visa and wanting to visit immediately after your visa has expired. Let's face it...the border guard is thinking you are going to continue to work for a few months etc - 50K illegal irish in the country has logic and math on his side.

Mexico (if you are on the ESTA) does not reset your time in the US - however, I am not sure what the situation is when coming off a visa and trying to re-enter. Personally..I wouldn't try it. You could get in with no issues, but you could also not be allowed in and have to figure out how to get back Ireland from some random Mexican border town without your stuff , that I am assuming you are leaving in the US.

I have been working legally here for the past year. So if i come back in on the ESTA I would have the excuse that I had no time to travel as I was working. I'll also have a flight home to Ireland and proof of funds for my stay. I do think I have a better case than people who are trying to get back in on an ESTA immediately after an ESTA. And I have heard of people doing that.

silja

How longis "a bit more travelling"?
Will you be able to show the funds to do so comfortably?
Do you have any ties back to Ireland, such as a college course or job already accepted and waiting for you?

I think if you had a ticket back home to Ireland for 2-3 weeks later, you most likely will be fine (as you mentioned, it always depends on the immigration officer at the border). If you plan on spending the full 90 days, you may have more trouble.

iusedtoknow

brenchy wrote: »

I have been working legally here for the past year. So if i come back in on the ESTA I would have the excuse that I had no time to travel as I was working. I'll also have a flight home to Ireland and proof of funds for my stay. I do think I have a better case than people who are trying to get back in on an ESTA immediately after an ESTA. And I have heard of people doing that.

Figure out your risk tolerance, if you get refused entry, it'll be visa's every time you want to enter the the US. TBH I work in the US, and travel around a lot a fair bit personally. The border guard may feel you're chancing your arm a bit

ProudDUB

silja wrote: »

How longis "a bit more travelling"?
Will you be able to show the funds to do so comfortably?
Do you have any ties back to Ireland, such as a college course or job already accepted and waiting for you?

I think if you had a ticket back home to Ireland for 2-3 weeks later, you most likely will be fine (as you mentioned, it always depends on the immigration officer at the border). If you plan on spending the full 90 days, you may have more trouble.

Agree with this 100%. Your intentions may be strictly honourable, but the more concrete proof you have of verifiable ties to Ireland, the better your chances are of being readmitted for a second stay. A plane ticket is grand, but that doesn't really prove anything. You could easily change your departure date, if have booked an opened ended ticket, or you are ok with paying a change fee.

If you could show that you are enrolled in a Masters degree program here, or you have a job lined up when you return to Ireland, that would greatly increase your chances of being readmitted, as you no longer look like someone who is planning on staying on in the US and working illegally.

brenchy

silja wrote: »

How longis "a bit more travelling"?
Will you be able to show the funds to do so comfortably?
Do you have any ties back to Ireland, such as a college course or job already accepted and waiting for you?

I think if you had a ticket back home to Ireland for 2-3 weeks later, you most likely will be fine (as you mentioned, it always depends on the immigration officer at the border). If you plan on spending the full 90 days, you may have more trouble.

It will be for approx 2 months. I'll fly home right in time for Xmas. I'll have a recent bank statement for hopefully around $3500. I am going to be staying the majority of my time rent free with a United States Citizen who will be crossing the border with me. I don't have a job or school lined up for at home. But if I show that I am applying for jobs and maybe have emails for accepted job applications from Ireland with me, will that help?

Any other evidence that could strengthen my case? Or maybe anything that I should not show to them that would make me look sketch?

Thanks for the advice

iusedtoknow

brenchy wrote: »

It will be for approx 2 months. I'll fly home right in time for Xmas. I'll have a recent bank statement for hopefully around $3500. I am going to be staying the majority of my time rent free with a United States Citizen who will be crossing the border with me. I don't have a job or school lined up for at home. But if I show that I am applying for jobs and maybe have emails for accepted job applications from Ireland with me, will that help?

Any other evidence that could strengthen my case? Or maybe anything that I should not show to them that would make me look sketch?

Thanks for the advice

So....you won't be traveling but staying put with someone "the majority of the time". Crossing the border with an american is irrelevant, as they will be through and in McDondalds before you are even close to crossing. Print out of emails are in all honesty pretty useless, they are easy to fake.

All I'm saying is to look at this from the Border guards perspective and ask yourself if you would believe you.

- has a life in the US after being here for the last year
- visa is up, but crossing the border to get back in as you didn't have enough time to "travel"
- traveling with a US "friend" with whom you will actually be staying the majority of the time
- no actual reason to head back to your own country as no job or college

The general idea is to stay out of the US for as long as you've been in. That isn't going to happen but you basically need to demonstrate to the CBP (when entering on the VWP) that you have no interest in staying in the US. There is nothing in your case that would demonstrate that. The burden of proof is on you, and unfortunately, that proof - from what you have said - is severely lacking

Wompa1

I wouldn't do it! That's for sure. It might help if you buy your one way ticket to Ireland and have it with you before you re-enter....

I would also wonder if there has to be some time between one Visa finishing and when the other can begin...

coylemj

As pointed out above, going to Mexico on a short trip during a trip on an ESTA does not count as leaving the US (the 90 days clock keeps running) so when your J-1 expires they may take the same attitude meaning that you are expected to get out of the country and come back next time as a bona fide tourist. I doubt if skipping across to Mexico for a weekend and coming straight back again would fulfil that requirement or at least that may be the attitude the border guard will take.

If you go ahead anyway, will you have a Plan 'B' if you are refused entry at the border on the way back? BTW, the ESTA itself is not a visa as implied in the OP, it simply allows you to present at a point of entry and does not guarantee that you will be admitted to the country but if you were coming back to the US by land from Mexico, you do not need ESTA approval.

brenchy

The way I was looking at is was if people who were on ESTA programs could go to mexico at the end of their 90days to come back in on another ESTA straight away, then I could surely come in on an ESTA after a work visa. As the purpose of my work visa was to work, (which I did) and the ESTA is to travel. I believe ESTAs back to back looks far more suspicious than a work visa and ESTA back to back. Also if I was planning to overstay I could just do that now while I'm already here, why would I bother to leave to go get an ESTA? So that cancels that out. The only thing that border patrol might be worried about is if i'm going to work under the table somewhere. But I have been working legally for a year and will show sufficient funds for my trip. So the chances of that too are slim?

iusedtoknow

brenchy wrote: »

The way I was looking at is was if people who were on ESTA programs could go to mexico at the end of their 90days to come back in on another ESTA straight away, then I could surely come in on an ESTA after a work visa.

They can't. Mexico does not reset the authorized 90 days ...otherwise every Paddy Murphy would be doing the same thing.

brenchy wrote: »

As the purpose of my work visa was to work, (which I did) and the ESTA is to travel. I believe ESTAs back to back looks far more suspicious than a work visa and ESTA back to back.

The ESTA is for periodic visits either for business or travel - you are seeking to extend your time in the country immediately after your visa lapses. The ESTA likewise is not "Back to back" - it is a way to see your suitability for not getting a visa. The I-94 that you are granted is your actual authorization to enter the US, the ESTA provides authorization to travel to the US. The esta is valid for 2 years for as many trips as you see fit. It is up to the border guards as to what they see fit as well. The rule of thumb is to stay out of the country for as long as you were in on the ESTA

brenchy wrote: »

Also if I was planning to overstay I could just do that now while I'm already here, why would I bother to leave to go get an ESTA? So that cancels that out. The only thing that border patrol might be worried about is if i'm going to work under the table somewhere. But I have been working legally for a year and will show sufficient funds for my trip. So the chances of that too are slim?

That is true, but the border guard could also think you are trying to play the system (which you are) and take a dim view of it. Besides - your story changed in the matter of two posts (from wanting to travel more to staying with your friend)

Wompa1

Personally, I wouldn't try this but if I did. I'd go to Canada...not Mexico. Might be a bit kinder environment wise if you don't get back over the border.

coylemj

brenchy wrote: »

The way I was looking at is was if people who were on ESTA programs could go to mexico at the end of their 90days to come back in on another ESTA straight away, then I could surely come in on an ESTA after a work visa.

Did you hear that story in a bar somewhere? As I and another poster have pointed out, leaving for Mexico (or Canada, or the Caribbean) does not reset the clock on the 90 days permit you receive entering the US under the visa waiver program (for which ESTA approval is a prerequisite). So if someone went to Mexico at the end of their VWP 90 days and attempted to re-enter to start a new 90 days, it would be seen as an attempt to extend the original 90 days permit which the relevant US immigration websites say is not possible under any circumstances.

Mars Bar

Look OP, there's no point trying to justify yourself to the posters of Boards for doing something illegal. You asked is it a good idea. The answer you got is no, it's a really stupid thing to try.

brenchy

coylemj wrote: »

Did you hear that story in a bar somewhere? As I and another poster have pointed out, leaving for Mexico (or Canada, or the Caribbean) does not reset the clock on the 90 days permit you receive entering the US under the visa waiver program (for which ESTA approval is a prerequisite). So if someone went to Mexico at the end of their VWP 90 days and attempted to re-enter to start a new 90 days, it would be seen as an attempt to extend the original 90 days permit which the relevant US immigration websites say is not possible under any circumstances.

No, I did not hear this in a bar somewhere. I know that this is true as I was told by an attorney AND by a person who runs an organisation for the Irish people here in California.

brenchy

Mars Bar wrote: »

Look OP, there's no point trying to justify yourself to the posters of Boards for doing something illegal. You asked is it a good idea. The answer you got is no, it's a really stupid thing to try.

I am not attempting to do something illegal. If this was illegal this whole thing would not be such a grey area and I wouldn't even consider it. The whole circumstance makes me look suspicious of perhaps doing something illegal after I re-enter. Therefore it is down to the border patrol whether they believe this might happen.

brenchy

Look I am told by reliable sources that I have a good chance (70%) of re-entering. However this is not a risk I am willing to take as it is too dangerous and I have too much to loose if I was to be rejected. So no, I am not going to go through with this.

iusedtoknow

brenchy wrote: »

No, I did not hear this in a bar somewhere. I know that this is true as I was told by an attorney AND by a person who runs an organisation for the Irish people here in California.

Welp...both of them are wrong...and I hope you didn't pay for the advice.

Trips to Canada, Mexico, or nearby Islands
If you are admitted to the United States under the VWP, you may take a short trip to Canada, Mexico, or a nearby island and generally be readmitted to the United States under the VWP for the remainder of the original 90 days granted upon your initial arrival in the United States. Therefore, the length of time of your total stay, including the short trip, must be 90 days or less. See the Customs and Border Protection (CBP) website.

http://travel.state.gov/content/visas/english/visit/visa-waiver-program.html


In your case- you would fill in the I-94W at the border, as ESTA is not for land crossing (you don't need approval to approach the US border by land, only by air) and hope that the border guard believes you.

As we said, it could work - but probably won't.

In all honesty OP - you're doing the smart thing by not attempting it.

Ah-Watch

Canada or Mexico wont reset your visa no. If you returned to Ireland and straight back again it would but you're not guaranteed entry either. Personally I'm dying to stay here after my graduate one ends but I point blank will not do it illegally or do it in a way that may jeopardize my future ability to travel to the US. My visa ends at the end of the year and I have a month for travelling after this date. I have planned to go home for CHristmas and work maybe until the 22nd of December but afraid of getting rejected at the border incase it goes against me later in life

smurfjed

Just remember that for every future visa application you will be asked were you ever refused entry!