Getting pulled over for 'dangerous driving'

bobbysands81

Got pulled over for 'dangerous driving' last week on the say so of someone calling 999, the Garda took my details and said he'd go back to the complainant saying he'd spoken to me about my driving and cautioned me to see if they wanted to take it further.

The Garda said he'd ring me to inform me of the outcome after the conversation with complainant but so far hasn't.

Anyone know what happens next? Can I get penalty points/court appearance without the complainant taking it further? Do I have a right to find out the name of the person who complained?

Stheno

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Got pulled over for 'dangerous driving' last week on the say so of someone calling 999, the Garda took my details and said he'd go back to the complainant saying he'd spoken to me about my driving and cautioned me to see if they wanted to take it further.

The Garda said he'd ring me to inform me of the outcome after the conversation with complainant but so far hasn't.

Anyone know what happens next? Can I get penalty points/court appearance without the complainant taking it further? Do I have a right to find out the name of the person who complained?

You can be summonsed by the guards if they feel it's justified
you don't have a right to know who complained

ironclaw

Stheno wrote: »

you don't have a right to know who complained

Unless you are convicted of something, by which you have to be brought to court and the witness has to testify or make a sworn statement. You'll know then as you are entitled to know the evidence against you. The most that will come of this is a caution.

barneygumble99

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Got pulled over for 'dangerous driving' last week on the say so of someone calling 999, the Garda took my details and said he'd go back to the complainant saying he'd spoken to me about my driving and cautioned me to see if they wanted to take it further.

The Garda said he'd ring me to inform me of the outcome after the conversation with complainant but so far hasn't.

Anyone know what happens next? Can I get penalty points/court appearance without the complainant taking it further? Do I have a right to find out the name of the person who complained?

Depends what it is you were reported for and if you admitted it to the guard?

Greenmachine

What did you OP?

bobbysands81

bobbysands81 wrote: »

.. Can I get penalty points/court appearance without the complainant taking it further?

Nope.

And I can't see this getting to court.

Chris_Heilong

The person who reported you would have to be willing to appear in court and say he saw you driving dangerously, so knowing human nature I think you will be fine.

bobbysands81

Greenmachine wrote: »

What did you OP?

I undertook a car who was going approx 100kmph in the overtaking lane. I sat behind him for a few minutes and flashed twice in those few minutes before passing him on the inside.

I got some shock when the Gardai stopped me some 50/60km later after being tailgated by the complainant for approx 40km.

mickdw

Jesus, Gardai should have stopped the complainant who I'm figuring was the person hogging the overtaking lane and thrown the book at them.

Explosive_Cornflake

I don't even bother waiting behind the RHL hogs anymore. I just do a quick undertake.
I figure if they are stuck in that lane, there's little chance of them merging into me. Has worked out fine so far for at least 5 years now.

bobbysands81

mickdw wrote: »

Jesus, Gardai should have stopped the complainant who I'm figuring was the person hogging the overtaking lane and thrown the book at them.

I'll be the first to admit there's two sides to every story and the complainant must have thought that what I did in overtaking him was dangerous or whatever but what happened after that was ludicrous and far more needing of Garda intervention. Driving up my hole and constantly flashing me. I slowed down to let him overtake me but he'd slow down even more. He must have made the call to Gardai whilst still driving unless his 04 car had a hands free kit.

I never got to speak properly to the Garda about what happened as I was too busy defending myself thinking I was going to get penalty points, having not been stopped for something like this before I had no idea what would happen.

I was also accused of 'hand gestures' by the complainant, I did gesture with my hands, but that was pointing to the lane that he should have been driving in and not giving him the finger as he told Gardai.

Paddy@CIRL

FYI, it's legal to use the phone whilst driving ONLY if you're contacting the emergency services.

Feel for you, OP. I wouldn't worry too much about it though.

Pov06

You can always say you felt endangered by the reporter's driving and got ahead in case they did something dangerous. This would seem valid for a lane hogger because you wouldn't be the only one undertaking the driver.

frozenfrozen

he was breaking a rule of the road while sitting in the overtaking lane so his opinion on whether or not your undertaking was 'dangerous driving' should not be respected as he clearly was unaware of or unwilling to follow the rules of the road himself.

He also isn't allowed to tailgate you just because he's reporting you to the gardai. Vigilantism is not allowed and that kind of aggression on the road is more deserving of any sort of dangerous driving accusation than undertaking someone.

The no undertaking rule is to stop people speeding up while being overtaken anyway. once the person in the outside lane is just driving there and not overtaking anymore they're not following the rules of the road

nothing will come of it anyway but we can't have just anyone being able to call up and have the guards take their word for it

mik_da_man

Make a complaint back against him!
He needs to learn the rules of the road.

road_high

Explosive_Cornflake wrote: »

I don't even bother waiting behind the RHL hogs anymore. I just do a quick undertake.
I figure if they are stuck in that lane, there's little chance of them merging into me. Has worked out fine so far for at least 5 years now.

Me too. Too stressful. They invariably don't budge even after you undertake them, bar the odd person that's genuinely not realised their mistake.

Je suis tres mal

Explosive_Cornflake wrote: »

I don't even bother waiting behind the RHL hogs anymore. I just do a quick undertake.
I figure if they are stuck in that lane, there's little chance of them merging into me. Has worked out fine so far for at least 5 years now.

Quick toot of the horn and undertake on the left - > jobs oxo
Only way to deal with these eejits

aaakev

I was on the m7 heading to cork a few months ago, cruising along and overtook a truck to find a yaris in the outside lane doing under 100k.... i gave a few flashes and nothing, a few more and 2 heads turn around and start giving me dirty looks! I undertook them and they started giving me the finger and shouting out the window! All i could do was laugh

Silvera

I often come across right lane hoggers too. I find that flashing lights has to be an absolute last resort - as most Irish drivers simply get 'thick' and refuse to move if you do so (unlike on the Continent where drivers regularly flash other drivers as they approach from behind - to 'make them aware of their presence').

Too many Irish drivers approach 'lane hoggers' at high speed from behind and then tailgate said lanehogger in an attempt to 'bully' them out of the way. (Indeed I think that many drivers see it as a 'challenge/their right' to "move" a lanehogger over to 'teach them a lesson').

The correct/courteous/most 'professional' way to do it is to approach from behind (at a safe/legal speed) and put on your right hand indicator to show the driver ahead that you wish to pass. All while maintaining a safe distance from the vehicle in front. This usually works.

Unfortunately too many drivers do not know the rules of the road - particularly the 'keep left unless overtaking' rule. (I recall seeing many 'Keep Left' road signs while driving in New Zealand many years ago). This lack of education (road signs?) is something which needs to be addressed by the RSA (who in fairness are active with many excellent road safety campaigns). Perhaps a 'Keep Left' advertising campaign by the RSA would help ease the lanehogging problem on Ireland roads?!

frozenfrozen

I think a keep left campaign would be very useful. Also to try curtail people from overtaking on a roundabout by entering while in the turning right lane but then using it as a racing line to jump back into the leftmost lane forcing everyone to brake to let them merge

duffman3833

bobbysands81 wrote: »

I undertook a car who was going approx 100kmph in the overtaking lane. I sat behind him for a few minutes and flashed twice in those few minutes before passing him on the inside.

I got some shock when the Gardai stopped me some 50/60km later after being tailgated by the complainant for approx 40km.

person must have all the time in the world if they can follow you for 40km and call the guards haha

seamus

bobbysands81 wrote: »

I was also accused of 'hand gestures' by the complainant, I did gesture with my hands, but that was pointing to the lane that he should have been driving in and not giving him the finger as he told Gardai.

Hmm.
So it does sound like you did a little more than give him a quick flash and an undertake.

You engaged with him rather than just overtaking and moving on with your day.

Hal1

Fight fire with fire op, and get a dashcam installed.

ION08

I'd be absolutely fuming with rage. Nothing boils my blood more than these type of idiots that despite their complete lack of education when it comes to rules of the road, think they know it all and have the audacity to flash you or report you for being in the wrong whilst they of course must be in the right seeing as their doing the speed limit in the "fast lane" :rolleyes:

It makes me want to somehow pull them over and rip up their licence on the spot.

Absolute gob****es!

Zubeneschamali

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

The person who reported you would have to be willing to appear in court and say he saw you driving dangerously

You could also offer a defense, and then the court would have to believe the complainant, not you.

But if you admitted undertaking to the guard, that alone might be enough for him to charge you.

frozenfrozen

If you were both traveling at the speed limit in tandem, their attempt at overtaking is pointless and they would have to break the speed limit in order to pass you out and judging by their other actions including tailgating they seemed to be trying to bully you on the road.

Undertaking is a specific term which allows an undertaking maneuver if the person to the right is turning right or is 'slow moving'. If someone is sitting in the right lane, they are not overtaking, or making sufficient progress to be deemed actually overtaking.
so you could assume they are planning to turn right and undertaking is ok; or since they are making insufficient progress in their overtake they could be considered slow moving.

There's something in the rules of the road about maintaining your course and slowing down if necessary to facilitate an overtake of you but that doesn't mean others get to control your progress because they feel like sitting exactly at the speed limit in the overtaking lane. If anything they simply shouldn't have attempted an overtake, and if they weren't attempting an overtake they should not have entered the overtaking lane.

K4t

If this happened on a motorway then why did you simply not undertake in the first place, which would have been fine given the other car was driving at approx 20km below the speed limit? Surely there was no need to sit behind him in the overtaking lane, never mind flash him? You could have turned on your right indicator to alert the car of your intention to overtake but I really think you should have just undertook him in the first place, given as I said that it wouldn't really have been an undertaking but simply safer driving, more practical, and you probably wouldn't have pissed the c**t off.

From reading your side of things, the other car is obviously completely in the wrong, but sometimes you've got to be smart and try to avoid trouble rather than trying to get crap and ignorant drivers to conform to proper road etiquette.

Azatadine

frozenfrozen wrote: »

I think a keep left campaign would be very useful. Also to try curtail people from overtaking on a roundabout by entering while in the turning right lane but then using it as a racing line to jump back into the leftmost lane forcing everyone to brake to let them merge

Yep, that drives me insane!!

2012paddy2012

bobbysands81 wrote: »

I'll be the first to admit there's two sides to every story and the complainant must have thought that what I did in overtaking him was dangerous or whatever but what happened after that was ludicrous and far more needing of Garda intervention. Driving up my hole and constantly flashing me. I slowed down to let him overtake me but he'd slow down even more. He must have made the call to Gardai whilst still driving unless his 04 car had a hands free kit.

I never got to speak properly to the Garda about what happened as I was too busy defending myself thinking I was going to get penalty points, having not been stopped for something like this before I had no idea what would happen.

I was also accused of 'hand gestures' by the complainant, I did gesture with my hands, but that was pointing to the lane that he should have been driving in and not giving him the finger as he told Gardai.

If his driving was as you say why did you not report him ? Too many killed and injured with driving as you describe.
If a formal complaint in writing is made you will be invited to make a statement to.
A file will be sent to the local super.
If it's your word and his word only it will most likely be left without any prosecution.

No need to worry. I would be a little worried if an independent witness or cctv
Was available and his allegation was proven to be of substance

There are three sides to every story.
Yours , his, and the truth.

Special Circumstances

Personally once I was clear of the side swipe zone I'd be shoe down and keep it there til the dawdleballs was a dot in the rear view. Remember - these people cannot gear down (but da injun will be exploded if I goes to 3000) so good acceleration for a short time should have you well clear.
I basically assume all these people are mentally deficient or deranged so why give them the opportunity to inflict it on you!!!

Pov06

Special Circumstances wrote: »

Personally once I was clear of the side swipe zone I'd be shoe down and keep it there til the dawdleballs was a dot in the rear view. Remember - these people cannot gear down (but da injun will be exploded if I goes to 3000) so good acceleration for a short time should have you well clear.
I basically assume all these people are mentally deficient or deranged so why give them the opportunity to inflict it on you!!!

Haha don't encourage the OP! He will get reported for hitting five-bleedin-thousand RPM

Hal1

That's were having some low down torq comes into play. Something I need on occasion, instead of my poor car sounding like a stuffed pig at 4/5k rpm and praying nothing explodes in the process.

Jesus.

bobbysands81 wrote: »

I undertook a car who was going approx 100kmph in the overtaking lane. I sat behind him for a few minutes and flashed twice in those few minutes before passing him on the inside. I got some shock when the Gardai stopped me some 50/60km later after being tailgated by the complainant for approx 40km.

You probably shouldn't have flashed him Bobby. I just undertake them.

It was the flashing that probably got his Goat up rather than the undertaking

Mycroft H

Leave the right hand indicator on and keep your distance. You don't come across as a knob.

marno21

Failure to drive on the left is a 2 penalty point offence.

Report the other car for said offence.

If you were driving in the driving lane at the speed limit, or under it, you did nothing wrong. What were you supposed to do, pull out into the overtaking lane and add to the sprawling mess?

Zubeneschamali

marno21 wrote: »

If you were driving in the driving lane at the speed limit, or under it, you did nothing wrong.

That depends on whether you think breaking the law is wrong or not.

I don't think it always is, I break the speed limit and I overtake on the left from time to time, but I certainly wouldn't tell a guard that if he contacted me about a third party report of my driving.

Road Traffic Act, 1961

(5) A person who contravenes a bye-law under this section shall be guilty of an offence.

S.I. No. 294/1964 - Road Traffic General Bye-Laws, 1964.

Overtaking

19.—(1) A driver shall not overtake (or attempt to overtake) if to do so would endanger, or cause inconvenience to, any other person.


(2) A driver shall not overtake (or attempt to overtake) unless he can clearly see a portion of the roadway which—


(a) is free from approaching traffic, pedestrians and any obstruction, and


(b) is sufficiently long and wide to permit the overtaking to be completed without danger or inconvenience to other traffic or pedestrians.


(3) A driver shall overtake on the right and shall not move in towards the left until it is safe to do so.


(4) Notwithstanding paragraph (3) of this bye-law, a driver may overtake on the left—


(a) where the driver of the vehicle about to be overtaken has signalled his intention to turn to the right and the driver of the overtaking vehicle intends, after having overtaken, to go straight ahead or to turn to the left,


(b) where the driver of the overtaking vehicle intends, after having overtaken, to turn left at a road junction and has signalled this intention,


(c) in slow-moving traffic, when vehicles in the traffic lane on the driver's right are moving more slowly than the overtaking vehicle.

shedweller

Sometimes i just pull up alongside these tools and stay there. When the next lad comes along and goes to overtake the lane hogger will have to pull in, otherwise they are obstructing traffic (they are anyway but this makes it more obvious to lane hoggers!). Works most times. Other times i just keep on going past them. No hassle yet.

ironclaw

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

That depends on whether you think breaking the law is wrong or not.

(c) in slow-moving traffic, when vehicles in the traffic lane on the driver's right are moving more slowly than the overtaking vehicle.

Its completely down to the interpretation of 'Slow Moving' Its been done to death here but I feel, and others will disagree, that common sense dictates that 'slow moving' is start-stop traffic. Not an undertake at 100km/h and a clear road. Now I'm sure some will argue that passing someone at 120km/h on the left when they are doing 100km/h is 'slow' relatively, however the danger of doing so is far, far greater than say 15km/h in the M50 traffic jam. In traffic, your also expecting people to be on your left, slowing moving. You may not be expecting them at 100km/h on a clear road.

By passing on the left, you are committing an offence and should make best effort to pass legally or at least have a good reason for passing on left e.g. DVR

OldMrBrennan83

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hognef

Paddy@CIRL wrote: »

FYI, it's legal to use the phone whilst driving ONLY if you're contacting the emergency services.

Feel for you, OP. I wouldn't worry too much about it though.

Does this situation equate to an emergency? And does it count as 'emergency services' if I call a local garda station rather than 112/999?

Zubeneschamali

Patww79 wrote: »

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So you either pass illegally or you don't pass.

The OP passed illegally, and apparently admitted it to a guard.

OldMrBrennan83

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bobbysands81

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I don't see the Gardai as the problem here at all. The fella that rang him is the problem, sure he could have said that he was driving on the speed limit and from nowhere comes this car travelling at the speed of light hooting and driving right up to my bumper etc...

The attitude of the Garda seemed to change quite quickly when he saw that I was an ordinary fella going about my business and not some angry lunatic tearing up the road.

Still haven't heard from Garda so hopefully won't hear from him now at this stage.

OldMrBrennan83

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keano25

Listen the guards are obliged to follow up complaints. They don't know that Driver 1 is a lane hogger. They don't have crystal balls.

1. Driver 1 made a complaint

2. OP was stopped and details obtained as a result of this.

3. OP will hear from Gardai again if a follow up written complaint is made by Driver 1.

4. End of story unless OP wants to make a complaint to Gardai about Driver 1's driving.

Theres 3 sides to every story, your side my side and the truth.

Don't worry OP a clowns like Driver 1 usually don't have the neck to go to court.

Zubeneschamali

bobbysands81 wrote: »

The attitude of the Garda seemed to change quite quickly when he saw that I was an ordinary fella going about my business and not some angry lunatic tearing up the road.

Another possibility is that his attitude changed quite quickly when you admitted committing an offense, and he thought "Case closed, lunchtime".

Time will tell.

_Kaiser_

I find that lane hoggers are usually dealt with by cruising up behind them at a steady rate, waiting maybe 10 seconds for them to move in if they haven't already by that point, then flashing them once to wake them up and flicking the right indicator to make the point.

9 times out of 10 they move.

Special Circumstances

shedweller wrote: »

Sometimes i just pull up alongside these tools and stay there. When the next lad comes along and goes to overtake the lane hogger will have to pull in, otherwise they are obstructing traffic (they are anyway but this makes it more obvious to lane hoggers!). Works most times. Other times i just keep on going past them. No hassle yet.

Very tempting to create a stressful situation for the dopes but could lead to a dangerous situation. Have crept up on cruise control in the past, suddenly you have a rolling road block with a load of more aggressive drivers in the "fasht" lane. You boot it off into the sunset and chaos ensues in your rear view.

Stressful enough for even the thickest culprit to notice but irresponsible all the same. Would prefer to spend the minimum amount of time near them.

shedweller

Special Circumstances wrote: »

Very tempting to create a stressful situation for the dopes but could lead to a dangerous situation. Have crept up on cruise control in the past, suddenly you have a rolling road block with a load of more aggressive drivers in the "fasht" lane. You boot it off into the sunset and chaos ensues in your rear view.

Stressful enough for even the thickest culprit to notice but irresponsible all the same. Would prefer to spend the minimum amount of time near them.

Very understandable.
However, to avoid breaking any laws, there aren't many options available. I have on occasion stayed behind them and flashed once or twice but it doesn't always work. And as the OP has shown, undertaking can result in a visit from the guards.
If the lane hogger is stubborn enough to remain in the overtaking lane after being flashed then he/she is stubborn enough to make a call to report me for undertaking. Which is gas really because the guard on the phone would surely see that the caller shouldnt be in the overtaking lane in the first place!
This calls for dashcams methinks.
I still stand by my "staying beside him in the left lane" approach. Not breaking any laws and showing him up for the coont he is will do his head in. Haha!!

K4t

K4t wrote: »

If this happened on a motorway then why did you simply not undertake in the first place, which would have been fine given the other car was driving at approx 20km below the speed limit? Surely there was no need to sit behind him in the overtaking lane, never mind flash him? .

I always try to get the person to move over and only undertake as a last resort, falsh them, drive right at the edge of the lane so i'm in their right hand mirror etc. I have no problem at all with undertaking but if I'm spotted by a guard then I'm in bother and secondly it lane hoggers annoy me a lot so I feel they should be forced to move and see they are in the wrong.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

K4t wrote: »

If this happened on a motorway then why did you simply not undertake in the first place, which would have been fine given the other car was driving at approx 20km below the speed limit? Surely there was no need to sit behind him in the overtaking lane, never mind flash him? You could have turned on your right indicator to alert the car of your intention to overtake but I really think you should have just undertook him in the first place, given as I said that it wouldn't really have been an undertaking but simply safer driving, more practical, and you probably wouldn't have pissed the c**t off.

From reading your side of things, the other car is obviously completely in the wrong, but sometimes you've got to be smart and try to avoid trouble rather than trying to get crap and ignorant drivers to conform to proper road etiquette.

Jesus. wrote: »

You probably shouldn't have flashed him Bobby. I just undertake them.

It was the flashing that probably got his Goat up rather than the undertaking

I am pretty sure you can flash drivers who are sitting in the RHL when there is room in the LHL. The driver may not realise there is a car behind them, not that there's any reason to be in the RHL when the LHL is free.

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

So you either pass illegally or you don't pass.

The OP passed illegally, and apparently admitted it to a guard.

Can't you also undertake when the overtaking lane is moving slower? I found this rule to be somewht ambiguous. If the RHL driver is doing 100KM and the speend limit is 120KM, is it ok to undertake?