So how do we have a sensible boom

As boom seem to follow bust in a cycle we cant seem to get away from any ideas how to have a sensible boom that wont bite us when the downturn comes, unless in the mean times someone can figure a way to get rid of the bust bit of the cycle.

The Backwards Man

It's simple.

Don't spend what you can't afford.

podgemonster

Remove Greed from peoples psyche.

frozenfrozen

use the loan to make money then pay back the loan then spend the money locally on good quality cocaine

anncoates

We have this touching belief here that such cycles are specifically designed by malevolent agencies purely to annoy us and that all we need to do is engineer them to be booms forever.

Fleawuss

Don't engage in any spending that will have a spending commitment beyond a 3 year window.
Save as much of the boom income as you can.
Invest as wisely as you can in proven track record product in assurance.
Pay down debt.

Or book shopping flights to NY and bring Barry Egan and Gerald Kean and the current enhanced blonde.

Maybe rent instead of buying a house.

As long as there is more evidence of public wealth , more trams, better infrastructure all round, schools, modern hospital's things that last.

A tram from Dublin airport straight in to the city centre would be a good start.

Youngblood.III

I predict it will be a soft landing.......



......wonder where I heard that before :-/

Boring username

Create more jobs outside of Dublin, even if it means offering lower corporate tax and incentives. Nothing good will come of creating a massive demand for overpriced housing and accommodation in the capital, as is already underway. Again.

CIARAN_BOYLE

mariaalice wrote: »

As boom seem to follow bust in a cycle we cant seem to get away from any ideas how to have a sensible boom that wont bite us when the downturn comes, unless in the mean times someone can figure a way to get rid of the bust bit of the cycle.

when things are good run a surplus and pay back our loans don't say well things are good why not borrow more.

The government and the populace needs to this.

Saadyst

Decrease govt spending during boom cycles, increase govt spending during bust cycles.

It's what Germany does, called "anti-cyclical" policies

seamus

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

when things are good run a surplus and pay back our loans don't say well things are good why not borrow more.

The government and the populace needs to this.

This. We have a tendency to spend money when times are good and then panic and borrow in the bad.

Save during the good times and spend during the bad. While it does mean you won't have any crazy boom times, it also means that you won't have any disastrous recessions.

jank

Listen to the fiscal conservatives and stop increasing public spending with no return on productivity.

Wacker The Attacker

we don't.


we go to the pub and the bookies

Happyman42

Only give money to spend to those you percieve as the 'sensible' ones, silly: bankers, developers, etc and a hand picked elite.

The FG/LAB way to a sensible recovery! :rolleyes:

jungleman

From 1992 to 2002, the entire economy was based around FDI and the housing market. In keeping with the true spirit of neoliberalism, state assets were sold off and made private.

From 2002 to 2007, the entire economy pretty much just hinged on the housing market. As far as I can remember, 16-20 per cent of all state income in 2007 was based around taxes and fees from the property market. Ridiculously unsustainable.

A sensible boom should be centred around the taxation of large corporations rather than the individual. The corporation tax rate isn't being enforced as it should be. Subsidiaries of MNC's located here can reroute their tax in ways where in reality they only end up paying maybe 2% tax rather than the 12.5%. The corporation tax rate should be raised to 15% (which is still far lower than in the US, UK, and most other European countries), and should be enforced properly.

The current government seem to favour taxing the individual, which is equally as unsustainable as the housing market was. There's only so much people can give, and the non payment of water charges is an example of it.

A sensible boom would be far more sensible if the government didn't waste money like the hundreds of millions spent on that quango Irish Water. The logo for that cost €20,000 alone. I could have done it on Microsoft paint in no time. Millions are being wasted on this banking enquiry, which could still collapse. Even if it doesn't, the most that will come out of it will be a few "recommendations" which will never be followed through. €26.5 million has been spent on the new Eircode system, which is an absolute joke.

(Tldr) Tax the comapny, not the individual, and stop wasting money on pure shíte

Akrasia

Its gas, we're still in the middle of a crisis where people are being made homeless every day. real incomes have fallen since 2008 for everyone except the richest people in Ireland while new taxes have been introduced and many day to day costs have increased, but we still have the right wing economists telling us not to lose the run of ourselves because there is talk of slightly reducing the austerity measured introduced after the banking crash

Since 2008 we have
USC
Water tax
Property tax
huge increases in health insurance
huge increases in car insurance
huge increases in the cost of fuel
huge increases in the costs of electricity and gas
huge increases in the college registration fees
reductions in social welfare payments
reductions in child benefit

And now that the economy has recovered to the level it was at in 2007, we have people on here saying that we are in danger of overheating the economy?

Get a grip for a moment.

The economy is showing signs of recovery but ordinary people are still struggling to make ends meet. What the government should do is introduce measures to protect us from rent seeking behaviour as privileged people try to extract wealth from the recovery without contributing anything. (We're looking at you NAMA!)

Rent seekers are what turned the celtic tiger into a poisoned chalice. The government should use regulations and taxation to promote productive economic transactions and discourage rent seeking.

Its easier said than done, and before any libertarians jump in, the solution to rent seeking behaviour is not to scrap all regulations and let the 'free market' decide everything. Banks were the biggest rent seekers of all and under-regulating banks caused the global biggest economic crash in history.

SEPT 23 1989

Change the laws in the country,no tribunals,no inquiries,no commissions of investigation just courts of law handing down 20 year minimum sentences to anyone connected with collapsing the economy this would make them think twice before making decisions effecting millions of peoples lives

BoJack Horseman

Accept that doing the right thing will not result in reelection.

galljga1

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Accept that doing the right thing will not result in reelection.

Nice concept, not a hope.

Agricola

Make the booms less boomier.

Akrasia

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Change the laws in the country,no tribunals,no inquiries,no commissions of investigation just courts of law handing down 20 year minimum sentences to anyone connected with collapsing the economy this would make them think twice before making decisions effecting millions of peoples lives

We just need a government with a spine

Identify problems and implement root cause solutions

Why aren't there enough properties available for rent in Dublin?
Why is it so expensive to build in Dublin? Because land is too expensive?

because people are hoarding empty properties and unused development land

Punitive taxes on empty properties and idle development land.

This would benefit the economy and the citizens of ireland if done correctly but it would eat into the wealth of the land speculators so the government will not agree to it.

keeponhurling

podgemonster wrote: »

Remove Greed from peoples psyche.

just one simple simple step

Great!

Icaras

Probably the first thing is to not call it a boom maybe call it savings opportunity period.

I know this one is controversial the higher the price of the house the higher the deposit required for example once a property goes above say 4.5 the average income the deposit required to get a mortgage would go up incrementally so to buy a house 5 or 6 times you income you would need a substantial deposit.

KomradeBishop

Proper regulation of the banking and financial industry, because that's where the ability to manipulate assets and extend credit/loans unsustainably into certain assets comes from.

You need active regulators in government, monitoring markets for bubbles, and you need them to actively enforce regulations to prevent those bubbles (and for that you need lawmakers providing the necessary regulatory tools), and you need them to pop the bubbles they miss before they grow so big they risk destroying a significant chunk of the economy.

One big thing we need to sort out, is the massive mess that is the housing/rental market - the source of the biggest and most destructive booms - but this country has such a long history of corruption involving a 'revolving door' between government and property industry interests, that we can expect our future governments to be complicit in future booms (and we won't ever be able to prove that, because there is zero transparency within government, effectively).

So, we need to fix a hell of a lot of things still - we're not nearly ready yet, for preventing future crises - almost everybody involved in the last one (bar a few token cases) completely got away with it, and will do the same thing again - unless the population wise up, and force our government to setup proper regulations and reforms.


Of course, the biggest reform of all that we need, is reform of the monetary system itself - simply curtailing (but not completely) the power of private banks to create money, and bringing that back under democratic control - but this is impossible in the Euro.

podgemonster

Stop giving Eddie Hobbs airtime on National TV and Radio.

This propaganda should have been a crime...

donegaLroad

blow the money on a new children's hospital, a new Cystic Fibrosis hospital, and on upgrading all regional hospitals.

Spend the rest on a new Derry - Kerry highway / western Atlantic corridor, plus green energy initiatives.

For Forks Sake

Youngblood.III wrote: »

I predict it will be a soft landing.......



......wonder where I heard that before :-/

Mattress factory probably

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

Things are looking better in our house too. In the past few months I've been in a job that's paid 50% more than my previous job, full time contract rather than being put on a flexible contract. A lot more cash monies coming in, and 1/3 of my wages are put into a savings account.
Hopefully we'll continue to save for the next couple of years, hopefully both advance in our careers too and live within our means with a nestegg behind us should anything like the past recession happen again.

jungleman

Also, I don't care how much it would cost, but the country really needs a new prison. I would gladly pay for it through taxation, no problem. I would also gladly pay for a restructuring of an Garda Síochana and an influx of new recruits.

Crime in this country is a serious drain of money. How many people are in front of the courts each day, being given free legal aid, only to walk back out on the streets because the prisons are full? The cost of holding court sessions, free legal aid, Gardaí being tied up in court, the actual cost of arresting individuals only to rearrest them soon afterwards because they were let back out on the streets. It's crazy. There should be a strikes rule where free legal aid is concerned, where it is capped for individuals.

Another point of reference is the Health System. The HSE has to be abolished, it is completely unfit for purpose. More money has been pumped into the health service over any other sector during the last 15 years, and it is by far and away the worst performing. It needs to be completely abolished and restructured in a way where hundreds of millions of taxpayers money aren't being lost. From hospital food (let's not even go there) to trolleys, to empty hospital wings, to positions not being filled due to a lack of applicants, the whole system is just not working.

The essence of it is that a sensible boom needs to see sensible government spending. There is no point bringing in new taxes when the same sectors of the Irish economy are leaking money every single year. A sensible boom needs to see sensible planning, and sensible spending of taxpayers money. The attitude to the HSE has just been to throw money at it, close eyes and insert fingers in ears, and scream "LALALALALALALALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU!!!!!!".

The management of Gardaí in particular since FG took over has been appalling. They're being used as an extension of Revenue; tax collectors in navy uniforms. The court systems are spending money which could be used to build a new and badly needed prison. If government spending is out of control, there won't be a sustainable or sensible boom.

valoren

I can't wait until I hear those four fatal words.

"This time, it's different"

It's never, ever different.

sozbox

Akrasia wrote: »

Its gas, we're still in the middle of a crisis where people are being made homeless every day. real incomes have fallen since 2008 for everyone except the richest people in Ireland

Total nonsense. I'm not rich, in fact I'm probably one of those 'ordinary people' you go on about, would love a definition of that term from anyone btw, and I've doubled my income since 2008 though education, job changing and promotions from hard work.

But that's not simple and black and white for you is it? If you want to stop booms you convince people and the state to live within their means.