Golovkin v Lemieux Oct 17

Andre 3000

walshb wrote: »

Ward looked chunkier in the ams. I doubt he was 170 lbs as an amteur. That's 8 lbs shy of the 178 lbs limit.

You're right actually. And I have heard that Ward was struggling at times to cut to 168 as a pro and now it's apparent that he's really struggling with that as seen with the catchweight for the Smith fight. So yeah perhaps we'll see the proper Ward at 175 with some freedom with his weight. If only he got back in the bloody ring and showed us!

walshb

Andre 3000 wrote: »

You're right actually. And I have heard that Ward was struggling at times to cut to 168 as a pro and now it's apparent that he's really struggling with that as seen with the catchweight for the Smith fight. So yeah perhaps we'll see the proper Ward at 175 with some freedom with his weight. If only he got back in the bloody ring and showed us!

Too right. There is no reason in the world for one of the best fights to not take place. For me, Ward-Kovalev is a top 3 fight to be made today. 175 lbs should be a non issue for Ward. If it is then he's simply not an ATG fighter, at least not in the balls/heart sense.

Emmo-m-

Predictions on Ward/Kovalev? I think Ward beats him comfortably after a few close early rounds. I wish Ward had been more active in recent time , a true talent who doesn't get enough credit IMO. His CV is already better than all the guys he's waiting to fight now.

And Ward absolutely smashes De Gaele also.

walshb

No way Ward wins comnfortably. Kovalev is a fantastic boxer, with lovely feet, size, range, an inside game, and very heavy hands. A hell of a tough fight for Ward. I would lean with Kovalev. If Ward had more power he may well do it. I think his lack of power will hurt him against Kovalev.

Ward would need to make this a messy and rugged inside war. He could do it and win, but I don't think Kovalev is that easy to manoeuvre into that kind of fight. Ward will be kept at range, and would risk serious punishment in closing the distance. Ward won't push Kovalev back, or push him around. I see Kovalev controlling the flow and movement in the ring; kind of stalking Ward for most of the fight. Kovalev's reactions, and his fluidity at letting the hands go when someone presses him is what will really bother Ward.

Both are similar size, but Kovaklev fights bigger.

Ward does not smash DeGale. Ward is not a smasher kind of fighter, and DeGale is more than cute enough and talented enough to be competitive.

Emmo-m-

walshb wrote: »

No way Ward wins comnfortably. Kovalev is a fantastic boxer, with lovely feet, size, range, an inside game, and very heavy hands. A hell of a tough fight for Ward. I would lean with Kovalev. If Ward had more power he may well do it. I think his lack of power will hurt him against Kovalev.

Ward would need to make this a messy and rugged inside war. He could do it and win, but I don't think Kovalev is that easy to manoeuvre into that kind of fight. Ward will be kept at range, and would risk serious punishment in closing the distance. Ward won't push Kovalev back, or push him around. I see Kovalev controlling the flow and movement in the ring; kind of stalking Ward for most of the fight. Kovalev's reactions, and his fluidity at letting the hands go when someone presses him is what will really bother Ward.

Both are similar size, but Kovaklev fights bigger.

Ward does not smash DeGale. Ward is not a smasher kind of fighter, and DeGale is more than cute enough and talented enough to be competitive.

Kovalev definitely a classy operator but I just don't feel he is in ward's class. Only one way to find out I suppose.

I like James DeGale but his performance against Dirrell really turned me off him. He had the opportunity to put out a massive statement in winning that title , had Dirrell down and could have finished in style but chose instead to try coast to victory and almost threw it away imo. He talks a good game DeGale and I hope he is in a few good fights in the coming months but I think Ward breaks him down and gives him a beating ala Froch.

walshb

Emmo-m- wrote: »

Kovalev definitely a classy operator but I just don't feel he is in ward's class. Only one way to find out I suppose.

It's a dream fight. I rate Kovalev as one of the best boxer-punchers I have seen in recent years. I could watch him all day. Brilliant he is. And a no nonsense honest attitude about him. Old skool!

Emmo-m-

His CV isn't the best though. Yet to have that signature win.

walshb

Emmo-m- wrote: »

His CV isn't the best though. Yet to have that signature win.

What's Ward's signature win? Froch? Dawson? Kessler?

Solid names, no doubt, but not like all three are beasts or ATGs.

All of these would have been well beaten by Kovalev had they fought him.

Emmo-m-

They were all the top names in the division at the time though. Not ATG though , agreed.

Not sure on Kovalev fighting Pascal again supposedly. Bit of a strange choice.

SHOVELLER

Another great night at the Garden. Sitting in the second row in the second tier we had a super view. Although those in the first row had TV screens in front of them! Quite a distraction as trying to watch the live action in the ring and one TV is in front of you and then the big screen above the ring!

Arriving 15 minutes late meant we missed O'Kane's first three rounds. Unaware that he had been dropped twice in the first the nine rounds we did witness showed that Johnson was the more skilled tactician against a very game but limited O'Kane. Johnson's power and accuracy were too much but O'Kane showed great heart coming forward banging away. First time Johnson has gone the distance.

Towards the end if the fifth a roar went up as Donald Trump arrived in! This roar descended into mass booing as he made his way into Golovkin's dressing room.

Johnson is now the IBF number one contender and I think it's fair to say this will be a mismatch for Golovkin.






Next up was a heavyweight mismatch which we saw on the screens outside as we got snacks. An out of shape Vidondo got smashed by Ortiz and was finally dispatched face first in the 3rd.

A real treat to see Chocolatito in the flesh. And to see a fighter of his caliber was a joy after the first two bouts! Does he have it all? Very possible. Despite losing the first round to a very tough Viloria his super combinations stood out for me. Add in his speed, precision, overall ring IQ and increased following he has to be a contender for his own PPV show soon.

Viloria was dropped in the 3rd for his time in his career. He absorbed some punishment overall and was battered in the 8th with the doctor on the apron examining at the end. The referee called a halt in the 9th. Loved the relentlessness of how he broke down ex champ Viloria. He conceded to Kellerman after that Gonzalez was the best he ever faced.






First time to see Golovkin too and my first impression was that he just looked bigger. Dont mean to take away from the champ but this was a mismatch. His devastating left jab caused untold damage and along with his counter punching and uppercutting destroyed Lemieux all over. The knockdown wasnt a surprise and I wouldnt be too critical of the follow up punch when Lemieux was on his knee. The referee stopped it at the right time.

Very rounded and surgical performance and the abiding image is of Lemieux's head being repeatedly snapped back by the left jab.











Big cheers on the night for Roberto Duran, Lennox Lewis and Michael J Fox ringside.

An enjoyable evening ended in Jimmys Corner with the owner.

megadodge

Andre 3000 wrote: »

1. My round prediction was off, but it was a scandalous mismatch. Truth be told Golovkin could have finished it inside a round or two...but it's his PPV debut, he'd disappoint quite a lot of people for paying for a fight worth 5 minutes. It was a terrible mismatch. Golovkin almost seemed like he didn't care at times. I am not a fan of Lemieuex at all, I think he is one of the weakest world champs we have ever seen on PPV. I am certain he'll become a fringe fighter after this, and that's not through Golovkin "ruining" him. It's because he isn't that good.

2. You are greatly mistaken. Viloria even now is a terrific fighter. Great amateur background and some great wins against the likes of Segura and Marquez. He fought tooth and nail with Estrada, who's a top 10 fighter in the world of all divisions and barely lost a decision. Any guy who can survive and almost beat Estrada is a top fighter. He fought well last night, even winning some rounds against a guy who'll likely go down as the best "small" fighter of all time. Viloria is a very very good fighter. Just because he's a Flyweight and is not named Gonzalez, Inoue, Nietes or Estrada doesn't mean he's not a great fighter.

You seem to know your boxing reasonably well, but then you come out with a statement like this

but it's his PPV debut, he'd disappoint quite a lot of people for paying for a fight worth 5 minutes.

Really?

So, you've got a boxer who has been lauded worldwide as 'pound for pound the biggest puncher in boxing', who holds the highest KO% ever in middleweight championship history, is currently on a 20 fight KO streak and is on PPV for one reason and one reason only – KNOCKOUTS!!! - yet you're trying to claim that people who bought this guy's first fight on PPV would have been disappointed with an early KO??? That's EXACTLY what they wanted!!! They sure didn't buy it to watch an eight round masterclass in jabbing.

And on that point, you contradicted yourself blatantly by claiming repeatedly that it was a “mismatch”, yet in your summary of the fight you said

Golovkin was far more cautious this time out which is understandable

Surely if it was such an obvious mismatch there was nothing to be cautious about?
And you even validate that point by stating it was “understandable”!

You must be on the verge of cardiac arrest when discussing Deontay Wilder's fights.


While never ever having anything good to say about Golovkin, on the subject of Brian Viloria, a fighter Golovkin's achievements easliy outweigh, you claim he is a “fantastic boxer” and “terrific fighter”. What does that make Golovkin then?

Viloria lost his title in his second defense against a very uninspiring opponent, couldn't beat him in a rematch and then lost for the vacant after the aforementioned was stripped for failing a drug test. He then had a good win against Solis, but lost again in his second defense against a nobody who then lost in his first defense. When he won the title again, he had by far his best win against Sugura, but don't claim Marquez was anything special, he was a very exciting slugger, but that's about it. He put up a decent performance against the excellent Estrada, in what had the look of a 'last stand' and then at 34 (ancient for a flyweight) you're making him out to be fantastic and terrific, when he wasn't even that at his peak!

It's ironic that you mentioned his name as being the reason I don't regard him as great, when in truth it's his nationality that has kept him in the spotlight this long ahead of more deserving fighters. It's similar to Marc 'Too Sharp' Johnson being inducted into the Boxing Hall of Fame – while a decent fighter, if he wasn't American I'd say he'd never get into it.


Just to finish, I completely agree with you on Gonzalez, he's a fantastic fighter and I'm delighted to see him getting more and more acclaim from the wider boxing world. I've always felt the lighter weights were massively under-appreciated and you won't get any arguement from me about him topping the P4P lists.

megadodge

walshb wrote: »

I was hugely impressed with Viloria.

As to Lemueux. Weak WC that GGG carried.

...joining your seemingly neverending list of 'weak' world champs.;)

Dtp1979

I don't follow boxing much but I know andy lee is the wbo champ at MW. Is ggg better than lee? Is the wbo belt a lesser organisation that ggg's belts? Who'd win if they met and would there be any chance they'd ever meet?

Johner

Dtp1979 wrote: »

I don't follow boxing much but I know andy lee is the wbo champ at MW. Is ggg better than lee? Is the wbo belt a lesser organisation that ggg's belts? Who'd win if they met and would there be any chance they'd ever meet?

Lee would probably not last more than 3 rounds, GGG is streets above him in every department.

Morrison J

Dtp1979 wrote: »

I don't follow boxing much but I know andy lee is the wbo champ at MW. Is ggg better than lee? Is the wbo belt a lesser organisation that ggg's belts? Who'd win if they met and would there be any chance they'd ever meet?

Very realistic that they could fight next year if Lee beats Saunders. GGG will destroy him though as he will everyone at that weight.

Only potential a opponent I see giving GGG a real good fight is Ward.

Henno30

150k PPV buys apparently which is decent if not especially impressive.

efb

megadodge wrote: »

...joining your seemingly neverending list of 'weak' world champs.;)

Ah is anyone good enough...

walshb

megadodge wrote: »

...joining your seemingly neverending list of 'weak' world champs.;)

He is definitely a candidate. Plenty of real quality champs as well. You need to stop focusing on the negative.:pac:

Andre 3000

Henno30 wrote: »

150k PPV buys apparently which is decent if not especially impressive.

Weren't they expecting at least 300k though?

Henno30

Andre 3000 wrote: »

Weren't they expecting at least 300k though?

300k would have been a wild success. I remember Pacquiao only did 200 or thereabouts when he fought David Diaz, and that was after 7 fights with Morales, Barrera, and JMM. I think 200-225 would have been pretty good. 150 isn't great, but for a Kazakh who's never fought a star name, facing another guy who doesn't have a high profile, it's not bad.

Naturally you’d hope that 150k will discourage HBO from making GGG-Lemieux type match-ups PPV in future, but it’s hard to know. One thing that’s certain is that if Golovkin fights and beats Canelo, we’ll rarely see him on non-ppv television again.