White van man and poor cycle path designation

Proxima Centauri

So, had a white van man jump out of his van yesterday at this junction.

As you can see the red line is the route I take and his van had totally blocked access to the "contra flow" path. You can see their is a cycle traffic light at this junction to allow access to the path on the far side. This is obviously the intention as the far end of the path is another cycle traffic light.

Unfortunately their seems to be no signage alerting motorists that this is the case as white van man decided to get out of his van and scream obscenities at me for riding on the path, water off a ducks back at this stage and I just rode on. It's a terribly laid out junction and I'm sure he was pissed off as he didn't know why his lights were red when motor traffic has to turn right at this junction.

Again, it is bizarre that this is the layout here but the path has obviously been designated for cyclists with cycle traffic lights at either end of the path. See photos: anyway, just bored so thought I'd throw it out there for others opinion on this

seamus

This is pretty much why I avoid off-road cycle tracks as a rule. Layouts are too poor, drivers' observance and understanding of them is non-existent, and they're not built with any consideration given for the flow of traffic.

In your case, I would be taking an exclusively on-road route, even if it's a couple of hundred metres longer. The position of that cycle track looks like it's probably just a headache every time you want to use it.

Lumen

It's not at all obvious from his direction that it's a cycle path rather than a footpath - I can see any signs or painted symbols and although there's a dropped kerb there are lots of dropped kerbs that aren't associated with cycle paths.

monument

Where exactly is the junction?

Proxima Centauri

This is the junction here

https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.410085,-6.427048,3a,75y,202.04h,89.12t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1shOzMIXgjnRmxyyb_HHFbrg!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo2.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DhOzMIXgjnRmxyyb_HHFbrg%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D100%26h%3D80%26yaw%3D98.391861%26pitch%3D0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

I do sometimes follow the traffic around to the right and head into Clonee if I'm in the humor of a longer commute home

JazzyJ

By taking the route you're going, you're crossing a no entry road marking, and cycling on the path - there's no bike lane there - unless its changed since the google car went through?

Where are the cycle lights you're talking about? - I see them now....

That layout is bizarre alright.

seamus

Proxima Centauri wrote: »

This is the junction here

https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.410085,-6.427048,3a,75y,202.04h,89.12t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1shOzMIXgjnRmxyyb_HHFbrg!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo2.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DhOzMIXgjnRmxyyb_HHFbrg%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D100%26h%3D80%26yaw%3D98.391861%26pitch%3D0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

I do sometimes follow the traffic around to the right and head into Clonee if I'm in the humor of a longer commute home

So, there are no signs there, certainly not on Google maps anyway, to indicate that this is a cycle track.

Proxima Centauri

Correct, their are no cycle lanes displayed. But the bizarre thing is the cycle traffic lights at either end of the path!!

Anyway, I'll remain cautious here

CramCycle

I see the cycle light s but there is nothing to indicate that the path on the far side is for cyclists or contra flow. It may have been the intention but you are crossing a one way road marking against the direction.

The path leads to nowhere and has no bike lights at the end or ped lights.
Correction, there are lights there, are they bike lights or ped lights?

I get your point though, it clearly was intended as a contra flow lane but legally, it's not, and in this case both of you were both wrong. You for going that way and the WVM for getting out and screaming at you.

I would get onto the local council straight away to get that sorted. It is misleading at best.

manwithaplan

Am I right in saying that you are looking to go over the bridge over the N3/M3 but that it's one way? Without a contraflow lane, the only legal alternative is to do a lap of the motorway by turning right and going left over the next overbridge and then coming back through Clonee from the other side. That's a serious diversion and there certainly would be a very good case for a contraflow for bikes.

Proxima Centauri

Cheers CramCycle, I've never actually got onto the council but I'll look into it now. The lights at either end are cycle lights as attached

manwithaplan, yeah, I head that way sometimes and go on through dunboyne to throw an extra few miles in

Proxima Centauri

Just reported this on the Fingal council website

Greenman

Keep us posted on progress. :-)

CramCycle

Its pretty obvious there is supposed to be a contra flow cycle lane or at least one was planned. But if an accident occurred it might not be so clear cut. All it needs is a few lines of paint, a sign and removal of some other lines.

monument

This seems to be a related problem: http://fixmystreet.ie/report/5750

Cilar

monument wrote: »

This seems to be a related problem: http://fixmystreet.ie/report/5750

I posted this one. It's at the same location but it's actually a different design flaw than the one in the original post. Potentially a lethal one if you imagine a kid riding this. No reaction from the council since I reported the issue a few weeks ago.

The bicycle traffic light is at the end of the bridge (circle in red on the picture borrowed from the first post https://us.v-cdn.net/6034073/uploads/attachments/385977/356067.JPG ). The traffic light for cars coming from Clonee (the road coming from the right on the picture) is turning green at the same time as the bicycle traffic light, meaning that if you're turning right from the cycle path on the bridge to Clonee, you'll be hit by a car coming from Clonee and turning right to Littlepace. Whoever set up this bicycle traffic light is assuming that all bicycle are going straight, not turning right.

roverrules

Cilar wrote: »

I posted this one. It's at the same location but it's actually a different design flaw than the one in the original post. Potentially a lethal one if you imagine a kid riding this. No reaction from the council since I reported the issue a few weeks ago.

The bicycle traffic light is at the end of the bridge (circle in red on the picture borrowed from the first post https://us.v-cdn.net/6034073/uploads/attachments/385977/356067.JPG ). The traffic light for cars coming from Clonee (the road coming from the right on the picture) is turning green at the same time as the bicycle traffic light, meaning that if you're turning right from the cycle path on the bridge to Clonee, you'll be hit by a car coming from Clonee and turning right to Littlepace. Whoever set up this bicycle traffic light is assuming that all bicycle are going straight, not turning right.

Is it a possibility that someone has turned the light since it was installed?
It would make sense if the bridge is one way and doesn't have an actual contraflow cycle track as the lights at the other end would be for turning left or right as directed by the arrows painted on the road

CramCycle

You wouldn't turn right while driving a car unless there was no oncoming traffic (admittedly I am wrong here as I see stupid maneuvers like this all the time but in general most people know you should not), I would suspect that most people would have treated that light in the same regard or am I too hopeful?

Cilar

CramCycle wrote: »

You wouldn't turn right while driving a car unless there was no oncoming traffic (admittedly I am wrong here as I see stupid maneuvers like this all the time but in general most people know you should not), I would suspect that most people would have treated that light in the same regard or am I too hopeful?

The issue is not with the oncoming traffic here, but from traffic coming from a perpendicular road. So you *would* turn right if driving a car in this scenario, that's the reason why the way the bicycle light is set up is dangerous.

If that was a "normal" traffic light functioning correctly at the end of that bridge, it would never have been set up so that it turns green at the same time as the traffic light for the traffic coming from the road located on the right (the road from Clonee). A "normal" traffic light may turn green at the same time as the traffic light located on the opposite side (on the road coming from Littlepace), but never ever at the same time as the traffic light coming from the road on the right (road coming from Clonee in this example).

roverrules

Cilar wrote: »

The issue is not with the oncoming traffic here, but from traffic coming from a perpendicular road. So you *would* turn right if driving a car in this scenario, that's the reason why the way the bicycle light is set up is dangerous.

If that was a "normal" traffic light functioning correctly at the end of that bridge, it would never have been set up so that it turns green at the same time as the traffic light for the traffic coming from the road located on the right (the road from Clonee). A "normal" traffic light may turn green at the same time as the traffic light located on the opposite side (on the road coming from Littlepace), but never ever at the same time as the traffic light coming from the road on the right (road coming from Clonee in this example).

But if it was synchronised with the lights from the right to allow cycle traffic to turn left to get to a cycle track on the bridge ( not contraflow) but had been twisted by the local gurriers, then would to me make sense, I suppose the real question is, is there a cycle track on the bridge and is it contraflow?

Is there a (too much to hope for) web page with a list of cycle tracks?

Cilar

roverrules wrote: »

But if it was synchronised with the lights from the right to allow cycle traffic to turn left to get to a cycle track on the bridge ( not contraflow) but had been twisted by the local gurriers, then would to me make sense, I suppose the real question is, is there a cycle track on the bridge and is it contraflow?

Is there a (too much to hope for) web page with a list of cycle tracks?

there is a short contraflow cycle track for around 20 meters prior to the trafic light, see the picutre above. The trafic light is not twisted

roverrules

Cilar wrote: »

there is a short contraflow cycle track for around 20 meters prior to the trafic light, see the picutre above. The trafic light is not twisted

I'm confused is that the stretch on the bridge or a different stretch?
If its the stretch refered to on the original picture there isn't actually anything to denote it as contraflow is there?

Cilar

roverrules wrote: »

I'm confused is that the stretch on the bridge or a different stretch?
If its the stretch refered to on the original picture there isn't actually anything to denote it as contraflow is there?

There are 2 bicycle traffic lights before (first picture in original post) and at the end of the bridge (second picture), but no indication on the ground that that it's a cycle track beside a short section that look like a cycle track before the bicycle traffic light at the end of the bridge. The bridge is intended to be contra-flow based on the location of the bicycle traffic lights, but missing appropriate markings on the ground.

Cilar

6 months later, problem is still there, no communication whatsoever from the council on an obvious safety issue. Any way to force them to even bother responding? RSA? Do they need an accident and be liable to start doing something?

http://fixmystreet.ie/report/5750

tomasrojo

Cilar wrote: »

6 months later, problem is still there, no communication whatsoever from the council on an obvious safety issue. Any way to force them to even bother responding? RSA? Do they need an accident and be liable to start doing something?

http://fixmystreet.ie/report/5750

Is there any way to reframe is it as a hi-viz or helmet issue?

Qualitymark

CramCycle wrote: »

I would get onto the local council straight away to get that sorted. It is misleading at best.

I have been writing to the council and using their online method for a year or more to try and get the main link road between Harold's Cross and Rathmines - Leinster Road - resurfaced. Over the years it has been patched over and over again, and the edges of the patches have worn away, leaving ruts and potholes, some inches deep. The council has done nothing whatsoever.

I don't think there is any real interaction desired or allowed by the council. It's the same with graffiti - those little darlings of taggers have smeared their tags all over household gates and municipal junction boxes locally. Multiple reports have had no effect.

Cilar wrote: »

6 months later, problem is still there, no communication whatsoever from the council on an obvious safety issue. Any way to force them to even bother responding? RSA? Do they need an accident and be liable to start doing something?

http://fixmystreet.ie/report/5750

See above.

petethedrummer

Cilar wrote: »

6 months later, problem is still there, no communication whatsoever from the council on an obvious safety issue. Any way to force them to even bother responding? RSA? Do they need an accident and be liable to start doing something?

http://fixmystreet.ie/report/5750

Your best bet is probably to email a Councillor local to the area in question.

schemingbohemia

Contact the NTA also, they probably paid for the work to be done.

Carawaystick

schemingbohemia wrote: »

Contact the NTA also, they probably paid for the work to be done.

Or TII, seeing as it is at a national road

Cilar

Going through RSA helped unblock the situation. They got the council to put a sign "cyclist go straight only" next to the traffic light. The safety issue with lack of marking on the road still remains.