Irish in mainland Europe

elprincipito

Were there ever any substantial movements of Irish people en mass to the mainland? I know a few French people have Irish ancestry(Charles de Gaul for example) but it seems our footrprint on mainland Europe has been small

Manach

Offhand, there were the Irish Brigades which resulted from exile in the post-Williamite settlement. These served in mercernary service up till the revolutionary period in France. Ironically, the penensular armies where then made up by about 40% Irish.
In the previous penal era, there were hundreds of clerics trained in the various Irish colleges in Europe.

Arsemageddon

elprincipito wrote: »

Were there ever any substantial movements of Irish people en mass to the mainland?

If I recall correctly there was a very large mass migration in the summer of 1990.

galwaycyclist

Arsemageddon wrote: »

If I recall correctly there was a very large mass migration in the summer of 1990.

I think that was more in the nature of a raiding party than a migration as such.

dubhthach

There's been back and forth to continent for last 1500 years. For example Bran mac Máelmórda deposed King of the Laighin died in Cologne (Irish monastry) in 1052. It's from him that the Ó Broin (O'Byrnes) of Leinster descend.

kupus

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regiment_of_Hibernia

This will bring you into a group called the wild geese and names like bloody o Reilly and admiral brown though he went to Argentina
Hope it helps


Edit I see op is banned ah well ya might read this anyway.

TwoGallants

The 'wild geese', the Irish emigres who made a name for themselves in Europe after the Williamite wars. Mercenaries had been fighting in Europe for centuries, we had a reputation as good soldiers. The first president of the French third Republic (Marshal MacMahon, a good Monaghan name!) was of Irish ancestry, as was the first maker of Hennessy brandy (the clue is in the name). There are others of note as well, but those two stick out in my mind.

DanielODonnell

The O'Neills in Portugal, the paddies who look as Irish as Christiano Ronaldo

DanielODonnell

They are a result of the flight of the earls

dubhthach

Portuguese O'Neill's are "Clann Aodha Buí" (Children of Aodh Buí) aka Clandeboy. The Spanish O'Neill's in comparison are "O'Neill's of the Fews" closer to "Ó Néill Mór" line.

feargale

TwoGallants wrote: »

The first president of the French third Republic (Marshal MacMahon, a good Monaghan name!) was of Irish ancestry.

President Patrice MacMahon had nothing to do with Monaghan. His family were from Dooradoyle, Limerick, having moved there from near where Shannon Airport now is some generations earlier. I believe his grandfather or great-grandfather left Ireland with the Wild Geese after the Treaty of Limerick. I read that his uncle was Bishop of Killaloe but that doesn't seem to tally with his grandfather leaving Ireland. Maybe the bishop was more distantly related.

TwoGallants

feargale wrote: »

President Patrice MacMahon had nothing to do with Monaghan. His family were from Dooradoyle, Limerick, having moved there from near where Shannon Airport now is some generations earlier. I believe his grandfather or great-grandfather left Ireland with the Wild Geese after the Treaty of Limerick. I read that his uncle was Bishop of Killaloe but that doesn't seem to tally with his grandfather leaving Ireland. Maybe the bishop was more distantly related.

Ha, I always assumed he had monaghan links as the name is common up there. Never mind (My Monaghan mother will be disappointed to learn this though)

feargale

TwoGallants wrote: »

Ha, I always assumed he had monaghan links as the name is common up there. Never mind (My Monaghan mother will be disappointed to learn this though)

The name is indeed common in Monaghan but is more common in the Midwest. They were minor chieftains in West Clare. Two separate sects, I would think.

dubhthach

Monaghan McMahon's are "Clann Colla" eg. Aírgialla, they would become Kings of Oirghialla -- Oirialla (thence english "Oriel"). Munster McMahon's are suppose to be branch of the O'Brien's and thus Dál gCais.

It's very easy from a DNA point of view to tell the difference from the two. As they belong to distinctly seperate genetic clusters when it comes to Y-Chromosome lineages.

TwoGallants

dubhthach wrote: »

Monaghan McMahon's are "Clann Colla" eg. Aírgialla, they would become Kings of Oirghialla -- Oirialla (thence english "Oriel"). Munster McMahon's are suppose to be branch of the O'Brien's and thus Dál gCais.

It's very easy from a DNA point of view to tell the difference from the two. As they belong to distinctly seperate genetic clusters when it comes to Y-Chromosome lineages.

BOOM!

Thanks! Where do you store this knowledge in your head? Could you recommend something to read about Irish genealogy?

dubhthach

TwoGallants wrote: »

BOOM!

Thanks! Where do you store this knowledge in your head? Could you recommend something to read about Irish genealogy?

Unlike Johnny Mnemonic my brain has higher capacity than 80GB

As for Irish genealogy, well how long is piece of string, it depends on where you are approaching it, from point of view of Gaelic Ireland and dynastical groups? Or from point of view of somewhere to look up details on surnames etc.

Woulfe's 1923 book is available online here:
http://www.libraryireland.com/names/contents.php

When searching names you need to use mac instead of mc, so macmahon instead of mcmahon

http://www.libraryireland.com/names/macm/mac-mathghamhna.php

Mac MATHGHAMHNA—IV—M'Mahowna, M'Maghowney, M'Maghone, M'Machan, MacMaghone, MacMaghon, MacMaghen, MacMachon, MacMahon, MacMahan, MacMann, Mahony, Mahon, (Matthews, Mathews); 'son of Mathghamhain' (bear). There are two great Irish families of this name, viz.: the MacMahons of Thomond, and the MacMahons of Oriel. The MacMahons of Thomond are a branch of the O'Briens, and derive their name and descent from Mahon, son of Murtagh More O'Brien, King of Ireland (1094-1119). Their patrimony was Corca Bhaiscinn, which comprised the baronies of Moyarta and Clonderlaw in the south-west of Co. Clare. The last chief of the name was accidentally killed by his own son at Bearhaven in the year 1602. To this family belonged the celebrated Marshal MacMahon, Duke of Magenta and President of the French Republic. The MacMahons of Oriel were formerly one of the most powerful families in Ulster. On the decline of the O'Carrolls in the 13th century, they became lords of Oriel, a rank which they retained down to the reign of Elizabeth; and even as late as the Cromwellian wars, they had considerable possessions and power in Co. Monaghan. The last chief of the family was Hugh MacMahon who was arrested for complicity in the plot to seize Dublin Castle in 1641, sent to the Tower of London, and, in 1644, beheaded at Tyburn. Besides distinguished chiefs, this family produced many eminent ecclesiastics, three of whom successively filled the primatial see of Armagh in the first half of the 18th century.

With regards to Aírgialla, well here's an extract from "Early Christian Ireland" detailing the relationship between the Aírigialla and the Uí Néill:
http://compsoc.nuigalway.ie/~dubhthach/DNA/eci_airgialla.html

DanielODonnell

dubhthach wrote: »

Portuguese O'Neill's are "Clann Aodha Buí" (Children of Aodh Buí) aka Clandeboy. The Spanish O'Neill's in comparison are "O'Neill's of the Fews" closer to "Ó Néill Mór" line.

They all trace their descent to Niall Glundubh so they were all related anyway

dubhthach

DanielODonnell wrote: »

They all trace their descent to Niall Glundubh so they were all related anyway

Even more recent then that both lineages descend from Áed Méith Ua Néill (Aodh the fat!), who died in 1230, the point though is the lineages spilt into seperate lordships, so for all intensive purposes separate families.

Obviously the néill in Ua Néill (Ó Néill) referes to Niall Glúndub mac Áedo who died in 919AD fighting the Vikings, of course some would argue that the Ó Néill lineage was broken by the near-relatives the Mac Lochlainn as it's unrecorded for over 150 years before we see Áed Meith's father Áed in Macáem Tóinlesc (Aodh the lazy arsed youth) come on the scene. Some have argued that his lineage is suspect.

What's interesting from DNA point of view is that we are seeing several Cenél nEogain surnames fall into branch of R1b-M222 called S588, in comparison we see several of Cenél Conaill surnames (included O'Donnell and Doherty) fall into parallel DF85 subclade.