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Siemens SPC 4320 - inertia sensors and firmware

  • 18-07-2015 12:40am
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8


    Hi, Thanks to the interesting discussions I have read on here I am self-installing a Siemens SPC4320 and I have a few queries.

    The old system (which I inherited when I bought the house and appears to have been out of commission for many years) was wired with Aritech 611 inertias that I plan to reuse. The windows have a small upper pane and a large lower one. Only the lower pane has a reed sensor on; is this a typical arrangement and what is the best practice strategy for these openings?

    I found an old PDF from Altor showing how to wire inertia sensors (I can't post a link but the file was "ALTOR DUAL PLUS SINGLE WIRING.pdf" and was on thread 2056653196 "Best use of a 4 core cable"). In this scheme, normal resistance is 4k7, tamper results in an open circuit and either shock or reed opening result in a 9k4 resistance. Is this an acceptable way to wire them for a Siemens panel? Since the inertia and reed sensor are indistinguishable from the wiring am I correct to assume that the panel is calling rapid fluctuations as being due to the inertia sensor but a stable 9k4 resistance as the window opening?

    Finally, I am currently on firmware version 3.45. Is there anywhere that a self-installer can get SPC panel firmware upgrades from or is do you have to be registered with Siemens?

    Thanks in advance... Z


«13

Comments

  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    Hi
    Yes the best practice on the windows would be to wire contacts to all openings. These can be seriesed into the existing loops.
    Your understanding of the duel wiring and how it works is correct. The Siemens Panel can configure what resistor can be used. This can be programmed individually on a per zone basis.
    You can upgrade the panel yourself via the browser. I will PM you the new firmware files.
    When you upgrade to and beyond 3-6-0 the browser compleatly changes and you then use the new app and portal Spc Connect.
    In the coming weeks SPC Connect.com will also upgrade giving you polling and notifications in the event of network fails.
    This is server end. You will not have to upgrade further.
    Before you upgrade the panel make sure you download a backup of the config file.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8 zagadka


    Thanks for the help KoolKid. Sensors on the smaller windows is something I will add when I have the system up and running then.

    Thanks... Z


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    That's fine. It's easily done at any time.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 855 ✭✭✭Evolution1


    KoolKid wrote: »
    giving you polling and notifications in the event of network fails.

    When is this being released? Any date?


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    Testing at the moment. The next couple of weeks.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,917 ✭✭✭✭altor


    zagadka wrote: »
    Hi, Thanks to the interesting discussions I have read on here I am self-installing a Siemens SPC4320 and I have a few queries.

    The old system (which I inherited when I bought the house and appears to have been out of commission for many years) was wired with Aritech 611 inertias that I plan to reuse. The windows have a small upper pane and a large lower one. Only the lower pane has a reed sensor on; is this a typical arrangement and what is the best practice strategy for these openings?

    I found an old PDF from Altor showing how to wire inertia sensors (I can't post a link but the file was "ALTOR DUAL PLUS SINGLE WIRING.pdf" and was on thread 2056653196 "Best use of a 4 core cable"). In this scheme, normal resistance is 4k7, tamper results in an open circuit and either shock or reed opening result in a 9k4 resistance. Is this an acceptable way to wire them for a Siemens panel? Since the inertia and reed sensor are indistinguishable from the wiring am I correct to assume that the panel is calling rapid fluctuations as being due to the inertia sensor but a stable 9k4 resistance as the window opening?

    Finally, I am currently on firmware version 3.45. Is there anywhere that a self-installer can get SPC panel firmware upgrades from or is do you have to be registered with Siemens?

    Thanks in advance... Z

    You can also if you have enough cores split up the contact and shock to separate zones.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8 zagadka


    So, I have upgraded my panel firmware to 3.6.5 (thanks very much KoolKid) and now I am getting the following error message:

    > The firmware in this panel is not supported by SPC Pro...
    > Please upgrade your SPC panel firmware before reconnecting...
    > Current Firmware version in panel = 3.6.5 - R.19700

    Presumably this actually means I need to upgrade SPC Pro (currently 3.4.5). Is that correct? Is there a source where normal people can get it?

    Also, I am going to change my old Aritech 611 inertias; what are peoples opinions of the mechanical inertias (Aritech 711) vs an electronic one such as the Texecom Impaq?

    Thanks... Z


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    I will send you the newer version of Spc pro.
    I would recommend GS613 from UTC (Aritech)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8 zagadka


    Wonderful, that has worked perfectly. Thanks very much KoolKid.

    Out of curiosity, what is it that you prefer the 613? Do you find them more reliable than the electronic inertias or is the extra cores that you don't like?


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    More reliable, easier wiring & more space.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8 zagadka


    Good to know, thanks... m


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10 Frank Tp


    Hi koolkid,
    Just finished installing one of these with some help from a knowledgeable electrician friend of mine and all is nicely up and running with the exception of registering it with the portal.
    I spotted your post on the newer GE and portal changes and was wondering if you could pm me the new FW for both the panel and the SPC PRO ( looks like I need both judging from the thread)

    Btw, I have a sizeable z-wave installation that is growing and plan to use my Home Center 2 to arm and disarm the alarm as well as report notifications. If anybody is in the same space please PM me your interest and I'll let you know how I get one.

    Secondly ( and this might be common practice but I have never seen it so forgive the post...)
    I spray painted the door and window sensors to match the respective colours of the frames and surfaces and you can hardly see them now. I got the two RAL colors and got the spray paint made up from a company in cork. If you are starting a installation it may be worth the effort. I'll try and attach pictures.

    Thanks
    Frank

    KoolKid wrote: »
    I will send you the newer version of Spc pro.
    I would recommend GS613 from UTC (Aritech)


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    If you have the panel up and running on 360 or higher you can just register the panel to your spc connect account. What problems are you having there?

    I have pmed you the latest spc pro.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10 Frank Tp


    Hi,
    Was the upgrade process straight forward enough ?
    Any tips/tricks I should watch out for .. currently running 3.4.5

    Thanks



    zagadka wrote: »
    So, I have upgraded my panel firmware to 3.6.5 (thanks very much KoolKid) and now I am getting the following error message:

    > The firmware in this panel is not supported by SPC Pro...
    > Please upgrade your SPC panel firmware before reconnecting...
    > Current Firmware version in panel = 3.6.5 - R.19700

    Presumably this actually means I need to upgrade SPC Pro (currently 3.4.5). Is that correct? Is there a source where normal people can get it?

    Also, I am going to change my old Aritech 611 inertias; what are peoples opinions of the mechanical inertias (Aritech 711) vs an electronic one such as the Texecom Impaq?

    Thanks... Z


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    Easy enough. Do you have engineer access?
    Remember to download a backup of the config file before you start. 345 to 360 is a major rewrite of the browser.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10 Frank Tp


    thanks

    I have engineer access and will perform a backup and will download a copy as you suggest.
    looking forward to see how the new UI looks

    I'll try and give it a shot this evening
    KoolKid wrote: »
    Easy enough. Do you have engineer access?
    Remember to download a backup of the config file before you start. 345 to 360 is a major rewrite of the browser.


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    No bother. If you get stuck give me a shout.;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,421 ✭✭✭DublinDilbert


    KoolKid wrote: »
    Hi
    Yes the best practice on the windows would be to wire contacts to all openings. These can be seriesed into the existing loops.
    Your understanding of the duel wiring and how it works is correct. The Siemens Panel can configure what resistor can be used. This can be programmed individually on a per zone basis.
    You can upgrade the panel yourself via the browser. I will PM you the new firmware files.
    When you upgrade to and beyond 3-6-0 the browser compleatly changes and you then use the new app and portal Spc Connect.
    In the coming weeks SPC Connect.com will also upgrade giving you polling and notifications in the event of network fails.
    This is server end. You will not have to upgrade further.
    Before you upgrade the panel make sure you download a backup of the config file.

    Hi, would you be able to send me the firmware and new version of spc pro too?


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    PMed you that.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8 zagadka


    Hi Guys, All is working pretty well except for the external bell (which I deliberately left until last to fit). I can't get it work...

    There is no voltage between either EX+ / EX- or IN+ / IN-. There is ~13V between each of the positives and the auxiliary 0V and a few mV between each of the negatives and the auxiliary 0V; it looks like the 0V is floating. Is there a setting or bridge I need to make to get an output on these terminals or is it duff?

    Thanks... Z


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3 toffimeister


    KoolKid wrote: »
    PMed you that.

    Just received a SPC4320 with old firmware. Can you PM me latest firmware please?

    Thanks,

    toffimeister


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    No problem.:)
    I PMed you everything you need.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3 Gavoh


    Hi Koolkid
    You've helped so many people, I wondered if you could help me?
    I have a Signet 200 with 1.4b firmware and would like to upgrade to SPC firmware and get the 4220 to the latest Firmware as well.
    Could you supply the files I would need as you have for so many.
    Many Thanks


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    PMed you everything you need.
    Any bother give me a shout.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3 Gavoh


    you're a hero KoolKid.
    thank you very much for your help.
    😊


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    Your welcome. Did you get all set up with SPC Connect?
    Remember to enable network in notifications and edit the SPC Connect ATS polling to Category 4 for 3 minute notifications on network fail.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3 Gavoh


    All upgraded to 3.6.6 with no problems.
    I can connect via SPC Connect on PC and mobile apps.
    ATS polling set to Cat 4 as you adviced, great for notification of bband down and up.
    Again thanks for the help.


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    Your welcome. That panel has some excellent features.Enjoy.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1 Lauvring


    Hey Koolkid - can you help me with the firmware and new version of spc pro too?


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  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    Hi
    I sent you a PM with everything you need.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29 trav


    Hi,

    Just installed an SPC 4320 at home and would very much appreciate the updated firmware as well. I didn't have a huge amount of time to fiddle with settings but got the system to a user settable state with a few faulty zones disabled. I noticed that the keypad LCD still reads "ENGINEER ACCESS" even though I have completely logged out of the Web interface.

    How do I fully exit engineer mode or am I misreading this message?

    Many thanks in advance,
    Jamie


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    It just means engineer access is enabled. This can be disabled in the variables settings to require user code to grant engineer access.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29 trav


    Thanks KoolKid, now I get it - engineer can access as opposed to engineer is currently accessing.

    Would it be possible to PM the latest firmware?


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    No problem. What version is on the panel at the moment?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29 trav


    Sorry for delay - just got a chance to check it: Version 3.4.5.

    Interesting that I could not open the web interface under Chrome due to an SSL error - I presume this is related to the security breach on the lower firmware versions? Something to note anyway if anyone else sees this problem. It opens under IE fine.


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  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    I PMed you those Files.
    Upgrade in order
    360
    365
    366

    Its a major rewrite of the browser. Back up & download the config file before you start.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29 trav


    Thanks a million KoolKid - worked without a hitch. I can also now access via Chrome again (without enabling SSL3).


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    No problem. Have you got SPC Connect set up?
    Make sure to enable notifications ,including network for polling fails.
    You can adjust the polling times by editing the ATS >ATP and set polling to Cat 4 or 5 for 3 minute polling or lower.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29 trav


    That's the next job on the list. I started the registration process but it was looking for a panel ID so I presume I will need to open the panel again and look for a PCB sticker or something? Will go at again this evening when I'm home.


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    Panel ID is shown in the browser under
    Communications... FlexC... ATS


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29 trav


    Ok thanks. I had assumed it would be a physical label in order to avoid hacking your way into an SPC Connect registration - presume Siemens have put some thought into this though ;-)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29 trav


    All done, SPC Connect set up and working as well. I managed to fit a home-plug into the panel as well for Ethernet access - will send a picture if anyone is interested. Fits exactly beside a 7Ah battery on a single socket with a shallow flush-box.

    Thanks again to KoolKid for all the help.


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    Your welcome.
    Interested to see that pic and how it worked out.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29 trav


    Here it is!


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    Interesting.
    What size back box did you use?
    How slim is that adapter? (Just wondering would TP links fit)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,421 ✭✭✭DublinDilbert


    A single trailing socket might be even smaller again.


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    You could hardwire something like these into the mains supply.
    belkinpowerline_3.jpg
    But the cost would be a fair bit dearer.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29 trav


    It's one of these: DHP-509AV

    Works fine, connected immediately no setup, just plugged one into router and the other into the panel and there it was.

    The socket box is the shallowest you will normally get in a Wholesaler - 16mm. you have to route the wires around the socket terminals to get it to close. With that I'd say there's around 3mm clearance with the panel lid closed.

    I was actually looking for a trailing socket but quite hard to find and a socket and flush box is probably cheaper.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29 trav


    That adapter is 37mm deep from the socket faceplate, BTW - doesn't seem to be on the specs.


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    Looks like TP Links would be fine too.

    With its new ultra-compact housing design, TL-PA411KIT is much smaller than TP-LINK’s legacy mini 500Mbps Powerline Products. At just 28.5mm thick, it nearly blends completely in front of any power outlet.


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