Block slatted Tank

jamesroscommon

Has anyone built a slatted tank using blocks. Im looking at doing one because it seems by far the cheapest option.
Are they a success?
Is there any hidden costs to them?

yellow50HX

jamesroscommon wrote: »

Has anyone built a slatted tank using blocks. Im looking at doing one because it seems by far the cheapest option.
Are they a success?
Is there any hidden costs to them?

Waste if time for that kind of job. You would have to lay the blocks on the flat to be able to support the slats and by the time you have built it it would cost as much as the poured concrete plus the time to actually build it. The inner wall would then need to be plastered and sealed to prevent seepage. They are not covered by the Dept schemes so wouldn't be able to get a grant and I don't think you would able to claim back vat either.

The cost of digging it out and laying the floor would be the same.

If it's a small tank you need then a precast one might be better.

jamesroscommon

There will be no labor costs because one of us is a block layer and the three others are well able to labor.
Im only trying to be pragmatic... if a concrete tank can be done at a similar price then id be all for it. Is there any minimum specs out there for a 4 bay single 12'6 tank?
The grant spec are definitely overkill but I have no figures for a minimum tank spec.

yellow50HX

jamesroscommon wrote: »

There will be no labor costs because one of us is a block layer and the three others are well able to labor.
Im only trying to be pragmatic... if a concrete tank can be done at a similar price then id be all for it. Is there any minimum specs out there for a 4 bay single 12'6 tank?
The grant spec are definitely overkill but I have no figures for a minimum tank spec.

http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/media/migration/farmingschemesandpayments/farmbuildings/farmbuildingspecifications/pdfversions/S123.pdf

dzer2

Lad I know has one. Built back in the 70s and still going strong today. Built with 6 inch solids on the flat. It was never plastered. He doesn't seem to have a problem with seepage as the tank never needs a lot of water for agitating. If I was doing it I would mix the muc at 4 to 1 and point the block work well.

Timmaay

Seen one done which supposedly wont ever fill above 2ft from the top ha. As for not being allowed claim back the vat, I cant see any issue here, it should be a genuine fixed capital expense, it doesn't matter if its grant approved or not.

Sam Kade

If it's only 5' deep a single block on the flat will do. If it's 8' deep you need a 15" wall one block on the flat and a block on it's side outside it. There were plenty built around here in the 80's that are still in use. There should be no problem claiming back the vat either.

Miname

By the time all materials are bought and fitted allowing a minimal charge for your time , the mass concrete will actually work out cheaper. I costed up concrete against block work for I was doing a few years back and you'll actually be shocked. Do it right once even if it was a grand cheaper you'll find spread out over a lifetime it's not worth it.

foxy farmer

Lad did one not too far from me back in the 90s. Was 100ft long. Any Tom Dick or Harry that could lift a trowel was brought in to build it. All went well. Backfilled it after some time with the soil that was dug out. 2 days later it rained and rained heavy. The whole thing collapsed. Some mess. Dug the whole thing out again and rebuilt it with the same blocks. Think he backfilled it with stone the second time.
Shutters and mass concrete win every time. Concrete blocks have no place in a farm yard as far as I'm concerned.

Sam Kade

foxy farmer wrote: »

Lad did one not too far from me back in the 90s. Was 100ft long. Any Tom Dick or Harry that could lift a trowel was brought in to build it. All went well. Backfilled it after some time with the soil that was dug out. 2 days later it rained and rained heavy. The whole thing collapsed. Some mess. Dug the whole thing out again and rebuilt it with the same blocks. Think he backfilled it with stone the second time.
Shutters and mass concrete win every time. Concrete blocks have no place in a farm yard as far as I'm concerned.

He'd have some fun rebuilding it with the sane blocks.

foxy farmer

Sam Kade wrote: »

He'd have some fun rebuilding it with the sane blocks.

Bolster chisel and lump hammer and you'd be away for slates

Good loser

Don't dream of doing it with blocks.

dunlopwellies

Neighbour has two built in the 80s in blocks still in working order.
12" on the flat. Well built would be sound.
What you do need to consider is the time involved. That is to build and set enough to back fill.
Piers for strength and 2 coats of plaster for water proofing.

Costed it up last year and would be the same situation as yourselves was little cheaper than reinforced concrete job.

That being said how a block wall tank would be any less water proof than earth lined lagoon is nuts to me.

C0N0R

Have two here over 30 years 90ft long going the best finger so crossed they keep working! No idea on block size.

AntrimGlens

Have built three here in the 90's all block built, 6" on their flat longwise, so wall is 18" thick. One is 90 x 20 x 9, another 60 x 20 x 8 and a smaller one. All built by the three of us and plastered with two coats and were substantially cheaper than getting them poured and built over the course of a week. The big one was dug out of a shed that was already built so backfilling was a tricky job but the biggest problem I see with them is water ingress. We were building in clay ground and below the water table so the tank can take about a foot of water if there's no slurry in it.

The father doesn't like spending big money on buildings and machinery if there's a way to do it ourselves, so far they have stood the test but I saw a block built lagoon here built in the 80's where the effluent just ate through the mortar joints and the whole thing had to be pulled down after 20 years.

Would i build another tank from blocks - no way i'm just **** scared of walking into the shed some day to see half of the slats in the tank with half the cattle in there too.

A man not too far from me had men mixing slurry one day pumping from one tank to another in block built tanks when one gave way and one of the boys fell into the tank and was luckily rescued by another worker just in time.
I think thats why i'd never use blocks in tanks again if i'm building - it's inevitable that the mortar will get eaten away and you can't see it happening.

4odh4n

we have one at home, 20+years on the go now, 40ft x 15ft x 8ft deep. built with 12" blocks on their flat, think there is two pillars to the outside on the long sides from memory, plastered inside and the outside was plastered up about 4-5ft to get above the water table.

wouldn't do it again tho for similar reasons to above (mostly to do with the problems with blocks in this part of the world recently), did lift a few of the slats a few years ago just to check the walls without having to get into the tank and all looked solid

lakill Farm

first think, you would be allowed to claim the vat back on blocks and concrete for a blocked tank


I looked at blocking a tank 2 years ago. do it on my own time, when I had a few pound and no load. Went to look at a yard where all the sheds are blocked tanks. this lad is an incredible farmer, no way a messer and the tanks have been build over the last 5 - 30 years and had no issues.

td5man

Blocks are around 10 newton versus 35n concrete.

Sam Kade

Good loser wrote: »

Don't dream of doing it with blocks.

Maybe a 2 bay would be alright but 90 feet would be pushing it. There was a poster here a few year ago that said his neighbour dug the walls and filled them with concrete then dug the inside of the tank, that would be some diaster even though the poster didn't find anything wrong with it.

Miname

td5man wrote: »

Blocks are around 10 newton versus 35n concrete.

A block straight out of the factory comes out at 4-5 Newton it hits ten after a year or so lying up. You can order ten Newton blocks but of course they are dearer

lakill Farm

td5man wrote: »

Blocks are around 10 newton versus 35n concrete.

How come they are only 10 N when its 25- 35N is normal concrete from quarry depending on spec?

10N is like 8 to 1 or less

td5man

lakill Farm wrote: »

How come they are only 10 N when its 25- 35N is normal concrete from quarry depending on spec?

10N is like 8 to 1 or less

They're made from chippings very little sand and I'd imagine very little cement.

darragh_haven

lakill Farm wrote: »

How come they are only 10 N when its 25- 35N is normal concrete from quarry depending on spec?

10N is like 8 to 1 or less

Cement content, aggregate percentage & slump dictate Newton strenght

Cavanjack

jamesroscommon wrote: »

There will be no labor costs because one of us is a block layer and the three others are well able to labor.
Im only trying to be pragmatic... if a concrete tank can be done at a similar price then id be all for it. Is there any minimum specs out there for a 4 bay single 12'6 tank?
The grant spec are definitely overkill but I have no figures for a minimum tank spec.

If you have free labour then fix steel, hire pans and pour the walls yourselves

lakill Farm

Cavanjack wrote: »

If you have free labour then fix steel, hire pans and pour the walls yourselves

here can you hire pans? im in north Westmeath close to Longford/meath & cavan border

I want to shutter a crush wall and also a dung heap wall in a "U" shape

CloughCasey1

lakill Farm wrote: »

here can you hire pans? im in north Westmeath close to Longford/meath & cavan border

I want to shutter a crush wall and also a dung heap wall in a "U" shape

Unless you know someone with them it is dear. Reason concrete lads are competitive as pans last ages and the initial outlay is expensive. Pans are dear to hire out and transport. Plus you need teleporter or silimar on site to fit.

Cavanjack

lakill Farm wrote: »

here can you hire pans? im in north Westmeath close to Longford/meath & cavan border

I want to shutter a crush wall and also a dung heap wall in a "U" shape

Have heard of lads hiring pans. Look it up on the Google I'd say. Wouldn't bother hiring them myself. Labour is still fairly cheap when it comes to construction.

cj maxx

jamesroscommon wrote: »

There will be no labor costs because one of us is a block layer and the three others are well able to labor.
Im only trying to be pragmatic... if a concrete tank can be done at a similar price then id be all for it. Is there any minimum specs out there for a 4 bay single 12'6 tank?
The grant spec are definitely overkill but I have no figures for a minimum spec tank

Leaks would be my fear

foxy farmer

Spent a few days making up a few shutters of my own back in 96. 16x6. Here they are doing a wall just before Xmas. Fierce handy but a bit big.

td5man

foxy farmer wrote: »

Spent a few days making up a few shutters of my own back in 96. 16x6. Here they are doing a wall just before Xmas. Fierce handy but a bit big.

Used to be a lad round here with 8x8 homemade ones he'd carry them on his back. Afaik they were made from 4x3s.

foxy farmer

td5man wrote: »

Used to be a lad round here with 8x8 homemade ones he'd carry them on his back. Afaik they were made from 4x3s.

Horse of a man.😉

td5man

foxy farmer wrote: »

Horse of a man.😉

F***ing ee**t would be a better description.

foxy farmer

At least with a mass concrete wall you have control over concrete strength and the ability to include rebar. There's a metal lattice that you can bed into the mortar between courses in a block wall but still not a patch on a poured wall.

I often wonder how gable walls in a standard 2storey A roofed house stay up. 20-30 ft of block sitting on a 4" base and a few wall ties keeping it from swaying.

Miname

td5man wrote: »

Used to be a lad round here with 8x8 homemade ones he'd carry them on his back. Afaik they were made from 4x3s.

Are you in Cavan by any chance td. I worked with a lad from Cavan that had all his own shutters done that way. I was at school when I worked with him and he would expect me to horse these things around. He went on holidays one time and I got landed stripping down a fairly big pour. I got them down but I think I decided to stack them all two high. He was absolute beast of a man in his day .

td5man

Miname wrote: »

Are you in Cavan by any chance td. I worked with a lad from Cavan that had all his own shutters done that way. I was at school when I worked with him and he would expect me to horse these things around. He went on holidays one time and I got landed stripping down a fairly big pour. I got them down but I think I decided to stack them all two high. He was absolute beast of a man in his day .

Stutter and fond of the high stool as well?

td5man

foxy farmer wrote: »

At least with a mass concrete wall you have control over concrete strength and the ability to include rebar. There's a metal lattice that you can bed into the mortar between courses in a block wall but still not a patch on a poured wall.

I often wonder how gable walls in a standard 2storey A roofed house stay up. 20-30 ft of block sitting on a 4" base and a few wall ties keeping it from swaying.

We had the gable of a 3 storey house come down one windy night broke 2 lots of joists.

Miname

td5man wrote: »

Stutter and fond of the high stool as well?

Different bloke then this lad smoked the pipe.

td5man

Miname wrote: »

Different bloke then this lad smoked the pipe.

Popeye?

Sam Kade

td5man wrote: »

We had the gable of a 3 storey house come down one windy night broke 2 lots of joists.

But that doesn't mean blocks have no strength.

td5man

Sam Kade wrote: »

But that doesn't mean blocks have no strength.

Well they broke when they hit the ground. ;-)

patsy_mccabe

Are concrete blocks not porous?

tanko

td5man wrote: »

Stutter and fond of the high stool as well?

Did this lad have the initials GG?

CloughCasey1

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Are concrete blocks not porous?

Like a sponge

td5man

tanko wrote: »

Did this lad have the initials GG?

No MC

Farmer Pudsey

Tanks made of block were common enough 20+ years ago. A lot depends on site.As long as the water table is lower than the tank they will work ok. Even if you did not plaster inside the tank in such a situtation the blocks would seal with the solids in the slurry by themselves however it is best to plaster.

I be slow to build a block tank now as labour cost between that and a Mass concrete tax makes them both the same price. If I could lay the blocks myself and plaster it then it could be tempting to do it as there would be savings. However if the councils inspected it then you could be under pressure regarding the tank itself.

Water outside the tank is more of an issue than the slurry inside. Water will damage the morter and cause leaks. Solids in the slurry will seal the inside but a water leak from outside will prevent this.

kevthegaff

Some old tanks here in an old building not used anymore but always worked fine, cavity blocks were used, puds is right the seal themselves. When i was younger remember building a few tanks with them and never a problem. I still go with mass concrete myself as have no time for laying blicks these days

Sam Kade

kevthegaff wrote: »

Some old tanks here in an old building not used anymore but always worked fine, cavity blocks were used, puds is right the seal themselves. When i was younger remember building a few tanks with them and never a problem. I still go with mass concrete myself as have no time for laying blicks these days

I'd say you mean 6" solid blocks cavity blocks wouldn't last long in a tank.

td5man

Sam Kade wrote: »

I'd say you mean 6" solid blocks cavity blocks wouldn't last long in a tank.

Probably 9" cavities with concrete poured into the cavities .

kevthegaff

Not sure but cavity anyway!!

Farmer Pudsey

Most tanks build of block have only 8'-11' slats on them. Most have single as opposed to gang slats. Modern gang slats are way heavier than slats that were around 20+ years ago. I do not think I would use blocks on a 16' tank, in reality this is why blocks are gone out of favour using large 16'+ slats ( I have heard of 20' but have not seen them) have reduced the cost of tanks compared to using smaller slats.

As well 9' deep tanks are common now this allows a bigger toe are around the pens. All these little thing make mass conc tank more compeditive than blck ones. As well the bigger the tank the cheaper/sq metre the labour costs. For a shuttering contractor it cost him mush the same to do a 12' wide as a 16' wide tank excluding concrete. It the same for a 5 bay as foe a three bay.

frazzledhome

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Most tanks build of block have only 8'-11' slats on them. Most have single as opposed to gang slats. Modern gang slats are way heavier than slats that were around 20+ years ago. I do not think I would use blocks on a 16' tank, in reality this is why blocks are gone out of favour using large 16'+ slats ( I have heard of 20' but have not seen them) have reduced the cost of tanks compared to using smaller slats.

As well 9' deep tanks are common now this allows a bigger toe are around the pens. All these little thing make mass conc tank more compeditive than blck ones. As well the bigger the tank the cheaper/sq metre the labour costs. For a shuttering contractor it cost him mush the same to do a 12' wide as a 16' wide tank excluding concrete. It the same for a 5 bay as foe a three bay.

What's a ballpark cost per ft for a 16' tank 160' long with slatts?

Have something in the back of my head