Damaged sofas in rented apt - how much does tenant pay

Fooster King

Have an apartment rented out. Tenant is leaving after 2.5 years and informed me that her cat damaged the 2 sofa's. They need to be replaced and I told her that I would deduct the cost from her deposit. However, she informed me that she would only have to pay a % of the replacement cost based on the fact that there would have been 'wear & tear' on them and they are not worth what they would have been when she moved in (they were 1 year old at that stage). Anyone know what the rule is for this scenario? There's also the cost of getting rid of the damaged sofa's (€60)

Boards.ie: Niamh

Moved to Accommodation & Property, you should get some replies here.

paul71

She may have a point, but you could counter argue that should she be able to source second hand replacements for similar quality and dispose of the old ones at her own cost you would be satisfied.

lima

I think it's like this:

Furniture depreciates by 12.5% per year due to wear and tear so you'll have to deduct that amount from the price they were worth when you moved in.

You can get tax relief on this 12.5% though, also on the cost of getting rid of the sofas (so long as you don't do it yourself)

Gatling

Pets damaging furniture doesn't come under wear and tear does it ?

lima

Gatling wrote: »

Pets damaging furniture doesn't come under wear and tear does it ?

That is true

Black_Knight

Gatling wrote: »

Pets damaging furniture doesn't come under wear and tear does it ?

Agreed. Sofa wear and tear is things like the springs and cushions sagging, the arms wearing and little scuffs and marks. Not a cat clawing at it.

paul71

Gatling wrote: »

Pets damaging furniture doesn't come under wear and tear does it ?

No it certainly does not so the tenant has a liability in this case.

The only discussion is what is the extent of the liability.

1. Full cost of a new set of furniture and cost associated with disposal and delivery.

2. Value of the furniture with allowance for normal wear and tear at date she moved out and cost of disposal and delivery.


I think number 2 is reasonable.

Ken.

Maybe you could check out a local re-upholsterer and see how much it would be to do that and split the cost 50/50 with the tenant. Might work out cheaper and easier on both of ye.

FishOnABike

I don't know if there's any hard and fast rule but if you use revenue's allowable 12.5% linear depreciation the current value would be 56.25% of the original cost of the sofas. It would be difficult to argue against this approach.

So, for example, if they cost 500 each when bought (1000 in total) the tenant should pay 562.50 euro plus a pro rata amount of the disposal cost.

Tar.Aldarion

I am wondering how often these things are replaced? I'm not sure how old the sofa was when i moved in but it wasn't new (probable at least a few years old) and I've been there 4 years. Same with bed and things. Anyway I won't complain, the apartment was bought last year and the new landlord has no idea what is in it and has never even seen it. Was just wondering about in general.

The_Conductor

lima wrote: »

I think it's like this:

Furniture depreciates by 12.5% per year due to wear and tear so you'll have to deduct that amount from the price they were worth when you moved in.

You can get tax relief on this 12.5% though, also on the cost of getting rid of the sofas (so long as you don't do it yourself)

The landlord is not necessarily automatically entitled to a tax allowance on the sofa- nor is the tenant entitled to factor in a possible tax concession to the landlord- in their calculations when working out their liability.

I'd go with the see how much it would cost to reupholster the couches (I imagine it wouldn't economic to do so)- and use the reupholstering and restorative cost as the deduction figure- and then make up my mind myself whether I wanted to go with this- or just buy a new suite of furniture (probably the latter).

Make sure you keep the quotations and any receipts- regardless of whether you go with them or not.

P. Breathnach

The_Conductor wrote: »

The landlord is not necessarily automatically entitled to a tax allowance on the sofa- nor is the tenant entitled to factor in a possible tax concession to the landlord- in their calculations when working out their liability....

Nevertheless, the 12.5% p.a. depreciation is a good guideline to calculating the current value of the sofas.

The_Conductor

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Nevertheless, the 12.5% p.a. depreciation is a good guideline to calculating the current value of the sofas.

For the landlord.
The tenant is not entitled to an expectation that she can depreciate the economic value of the couches- just because her cat destroyed them.

This is the 3rd of 4th thread we've had in this forum in the last month- which featured furniture getting destroyed by pets. Landlords need to take a reasonable pet deposit if there is even a hint that an animal may be entering the property.

FishOnABike

Neither should the LL be entitled to replace old for new.

A reasonable balance is that the LL is entitled to the fair value of what has been damaged and the tenant is obliged to make good the reasonable loss they have caused the LL.

In the absence of another method to determine current fair value the 12.5% linear depreciation used by revenue is as good a method as any.

foggy_lad

The tenant can replace the damaged sofas with two similar sofas and dispose of the others and there is nothing the landlord can do. A like for like replacement is perfectly acceptable to the PRTB.

The_Conductor

foggy_lad wrote: »

The tenant can replace the damaged sofas with two similar sofas and dispose of the others and there is nothing the landlord can do. A like for like replacement is perfectly acceptable to the PRTB.

Go for it. It has to be a like-for-like replacement though- you don't get away with tossing any old crap in there- just to put a sofa in the room.

ted1

Fooster King wrote: »

Have an apartment rented out. Tenant is leaving after 2.5 years and informed me that her cat damaged the 2 sofa's. They need to be replaced and I told her that I would deduct the cost from her deposit. However, she informed me that she would only have to pay a % of the replacement cost based on the fact that there would have been 'wear & tear' on them and they are not worth what they would have been when she moved in (they were 1 year old at that stage). Anyone know what the rule is for this scenario? There's also the cost of getting rid of the damaged sofa's (€60)

you depreciate furniture over 8 years, so knock off 25%.

FishOnABike

ted1 wrote: »

you depreciate furniture over 8 years, so knock off 25%.

But the sofas are 3.5 years old, not 2 so charging 56.23% of their original cost plus 56.23% of the disposal cost would be more in line with what is needed to make good the reasonable cost of the damage to the LL.

hullaballoo

If you allow pets as a landlord, you have to factor in the damage that having pets in your apartment brings into the expected wear and tear. Cats claw things. Dogs chew things. Budgies schit everywhere etc.

I'm not saying that there is no liability for the tenant but it's something you need to bear in mind when you're discussing the apportionment of the cost.

foggy_lad

The_Conductor wrote: »

Go for it. It has to be a like-for-like replacement though- you don't get away with tossing any old crap in there- just to put a sofa in the room.

A leather three seater could easily be replaced with any good condition leather three seater from sites like Adverts.ie or done deal.

If the landlord has antique or other valuable furniture they can not expect any tenant to take responsibility for looking after it. A 2nd hand sofa has a certain value and that is all any landlord can expect to be reimbursed for!

http://www.adverts.ie/for-sale/q_leather+sofa/private_seller/sortby_best_refresh_date-desc

Fooster King

foggy_lad wrote: »

The tenant can replace the damaged sofas with two similar sofas and dispose of the others and there is nothing the landlord can do. A like for like replacement is perfectly acceptable to the PRTB.

Would be perfectly acceptable to me too but she won't do this. It's gas - I've always had a "no animals" rule but she begged me at time and I relented. It's amazing how this all got forgotten. Anyway lesson learned..

Thanks for the replies - looks like the 12.5% rule is the fairest way around this and quickest way to finish with her and get a new (animal free) tenant