All VRT and no Log Book

Hi guys,


Went and took a look at a car last week. Seemed in okay condition, drove alright, etc.


(This is the start of the long version, skip down to just read the short version )


Made an offer (an unreasonably low one, by all accounts) and it was accepted. So I ask that we meet up so I can take another look over the car before I buy it, as I didn't get as good a look the first time we met. Seller says no problem.

I ask that the bring along the logbook so I can have a mooch and if I'm happy, buy the car there and then.

This is where I get confused.


The car (06 Vitara) is a UK import. I kinda knew that already as the clocks were MPH but when I got home I just searched the reg plate on motorcheck to see if the basic info matched up with what I was looking at (which it did, and also flagged the car as a UK import). I didn't actually do a proper check on it though (can't see the point in doing this for an 06. I know there'll be no finance or anything owed).


Anyway...


(Short version)


Owner says they have not taxed the car, so they have no log book. What they do have, is a receipt from the VRT that was paid on the car.

She reckons that she has to tax the car in order to get the logbook from Shannon. This would benefit me, as i reckon this means that I get tax on the car when I buy it, so? Although the slightly more decent person in me thinks that she'll be hit with back tax and as I'm already lowballing her on price, I should tax the car for the logbook.

However, I've never bought a car before with no logbook, and never one that had anything to do with VRT (buying a UK car seems like headaches galore so I've never even considered it, so I've no idea as to how this works with me buying a car that's VRT'ed but not taxed).


Was wondering if anyone could care to advise? The car has it's southern plates on it (and they match up on motor check) so it's not got NI/UK plates or anything.


Like i say, grey area for me, so I'm not fully sure if I understand what's going on around me or not. Is it as simple as ringing shannon with the reg plate to verify who owns the car (to make sure I'm actually buying it off the owner) and then informing them that I've purchased it? Or can I not actually own it until the current owner has it taxed? Will they be liable for megabucks (ie; back tax for all the time they've owned it) or can they get away with the minimum (3 months) regardless?


I'm probably complicating a fairly simple thing here, but I haven't a notion.

Cheers to anyone able to help out.

punisher5112

Get owner to tax wait for log book and then buy with log book.

Do not buy otherwise.

If tax has to come in on price a bit let it but make sure its genuine.

Does the owner then have to pay back tax? Might be a bit of a hit..?

Also, can anyone give any idea how long it takes for a logbook to arrive in this situation?

biko

Tbh, let the current owner sort themselves out first. Why buy a car that is making you work before you even handed dosh over.

DakarVert

She is correct, I had a UK import that I never taxed.... You don't get a book until it's taxed. ( I got mine when I declared it off the road)


AFAIK it says on the VRT receipt that a change of owner can be notified by sending them that document and the new owners details.

Del2005

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Does the owner then have to pay back tax? Might be a bit of a hit..?

Also, can anyone give any idea how long it takes for a logbook to arrive in this situation?

The current owner won't get the VLC till she pays motor tax on it and since she hasn't signed it off the road, IIRC can't do that till you tax it, she'll have to pay the back tax since it was brought into the country. I can't see her paying the tax she has avoided to sell it and I wouldn't advise anyone to buy unless they see the VLC.

Walk away.

DakarVert

DakarVert wrote: »

She is correct, I had a UK import that I never taxed.... You don't get a book until it's taxed. ( I got mine when I declared it off the road)


AFAIK it says on the VRT receipt that a change of owner can be notified by sending them that document and the new owners details.

Would this effectively wipe out back tax and put the onus on me to tax the car from scratch?

You say you declared yours off the road? could the owner do this? or must that be done from day 1 of import?


Gonna take a look again today at the car, more in depth. Im getting a good price, but im also very aware of the "if it sounds too good to be true" aspect.

DakarVert

I declared mine when we had those 2 months to declare a car back in 2013.

I can't see why there'd be any back tax to pay (For you or her if you buy it), I'v bought/sold plenty of cars that were never declared off the road.

If she has the VRT receipt, I'd get her to fill in the transfer of ownership form.


I'd have no trouble buying it, But I'd use it to my advantage and get it for cheap.


That's just my opinion anyway.


ETA: The current owner won't be able to declare it off the road without back taxing it. (It has to be done within 10days of purchase)

Your only responsible from the 1st of whichever month you buy the car. (And I'v never heard of a previous owner being caught for back tax)

testicle

When was it imported and VRT'd?

colm_mcm

I'd walk away on the basis that the seller is obviously a bit of a clown.

colm_mcm

colm_mcm wrote: »

I'd walk away on the basis that the seller is obviously a bit of a clown.

How do you figure? My impression is they didn't bother taxing to save money? Obviously not taking into consideration it would complicate selling it when the time came?

punisher5112

[Deleted User] wrote: »

How do you figure? My impression is they didn't bother taxing to save money? Obviously not taking into consideration it would complicate selling it when the time came?

How long have they had the car here....

I would be very cautious as there are a lot of mesers when comes to imports.

What car is it, price mileage etc...

Could be they found there is a problem with it and want rid.

Why would anyone go to the trouble of bringing in and paying vrt then not driving it?

punisher5112

punisher5112 wrote: »

How long have they had the car here....

I would be very cautious as there are a lot of mesers when comes to imports.

What car is it, price mileage etc...

Could be they found there is a problem with it and want rid.

Why would anyone go to the trouble of bringing in and paying vrt then not driving it?

Not sure how long its here. They want a 7 seater so want rid. Also planning to import said 7 seater as far as I know.

Its an 06 Vitara that I can get for about €3,250. Will obviously require a mechanics check over (what car wouldn't).it's a little rough but nothing a good polish wouldn't sort out. Seems to be driving okay. It's a good buy but it's just the vrt thing that's throwing a curveball at me.

I'm going to look at it again in a few minutes and hopefully find out what the story is.

But as far as I understand, it must be wither taxed or declared off road by current owner? Or can I do that and start things from scratch? (ie can I officially.buy it with just the vrt receipt and not incur any charges etc)

colm_mcm

Deleted User wrote: »

How do you figure? My impression is they didn't bother taxing to save money? Obviously not taking into consideration it would complicate selling it when the time came?

Those vitaras need to be maintained properly, if someone cant afford to tax a car they just imported even for 3 months then they are unlikely to have spent any money on maintaining the car. I also wouldn't be about to make that persons life easy by buying it off them without a logbook.

There is also the risk that the car is dodgy. Maybe it's been off the road with various issues.

If you insist on getting a vitaras, get a good one.

colm_mcm

colm_mcm wrote: »

Those vitaras need to be maintained properly, if someone cant afford to tax a car they just imported even for 3 months then they are unlikely to have spent any money on maintaining the car. I also wouldn't be about to make that persons life easy by buying it off them without a logbook.

There is also the risk that the car is dodgy. Maybe it's been off the road with various issues.

If you insist on getting a vitaras, get a good one.

Those are all fairly valid points. I was hit pretty badly when I forked out for a 407 about a year ago, and it gave me 6 months of non-stop hassle. I addressed everything it threw at me, and it broke my heart.

So I'm definitely walking into this with a healthy paranoia.

The car seems alright for what it is. There are a few things that are niggling at me, but nothing that's screaming at me to run away. The seller seems decent enough.


So I'm willing to get it checked over by a mechanic at the least, and see what comes of that. If he raises anything unreasonable, then I'll start to get my walking shoes on, but if it's given a green light, i think it could be a fairly reasonable purchase.


For example, there is an engine light on. Owner isn't sure why. The car went through the NCT recently (it's valid til Feb '17) so it must not have been illuminated at that time. I'm not sure if that's a good thing (catching a potential problem early on). I'm hoping a worthwhile mechanic will be able to do have a good look and figure out if it's a serious problem or a trivial issue.


There's also another light, but I'm not sure what it is. Perhaps someone here can identify?







As I say, I'm not committed to the car yet, and I'm not rushing into a naive purchase. But at the same time, I'm still interested enough that I'm willing to get it checked over.

Anyone here happen to know what this warning light means? Posted it in another thread, but figured there'd be more activity in here. I'm googling and googling and googling and getting nothing. I know I've seen it before though.

colm_mcm

EGR valve fault/turbo intake temperature I think.

colm_mcm

colm_mcm wrote: »

EGR valve fault/turbo intake temperature I think.

Been googling that but google not throwing up any results that match the light in the pic.

Flicked through (online) a few user manuals and even the vitara's own manual doesn't mention that light. I know I seen it before (in a van I think). Wasn't my van though so not sure what it meant.

colm_mcm

Deleted User wrote: »

Been googling that but google not throwing up any results that match the light in the pic.

Flicked through (online) a few user manuals and even the vitara's own manual doesn't mention that light. I know I seen it before (in a van I think). Wasn't my van though so not sure what it meant.

http://www.tredlab.it/anomalia/suzuki/grand-vitara-ii/19-ddis-suv-5pd1870cc/f9q/gestione-motore/160/p242a___suzuki-grand-vitara-19-sensore-temperatura-ingresso-turbo---sensore-gas-di-scarico.aspx

colm_mcm

colm_mcm wrote: »

http://www.tredlab.it/anomalia/suzuki/grand-vitara-ii/19-ddis-suv-5pd1870cc/f9q/gestione-motore/160/p242a___suzuki-grand-vitara-19-sensore-temperatura-ingresso-turbo---sensore-gas-di-scarico.aspx

No idea how you managed to find that! :eek:

I've literally been at the PC for the last 30 minutes solid just searching that light and getting absolutely nothing back.

You're some chap, Colm!

GvidoR

ONE DIGITAL COOKIE FOR COLM!

Squidgy Black

[Deleted User] wrote: »

For example, there is an engine light on. Owner isn't sure why. The car went through the NCT recently (it's valid til Feb '17) so it must not have been illuminated at that time. I'm not sure if that's a good thing (catching a potential problem early on). I'm hoping a worthwhile mechanic will be able to do have a good look and figure out if it's a serious problem or a trivial issue.

My Golf passed the NCT a couple of weeks back with the check engine light on, they don't fail on it. I'd definitely have a mechanic look over it if you're thinking about buying it, but to be honest I'd run a mile due to the fact there's no logbook, the check engine light and the fact the owner didn't even bother to tax it means it probably wasn't taken care of that well. To each their own though.

Guy:Incognito

Deleted User wrote: »

So I'm definitely walking into this with a healthy paranoia..

This seems to be contradicted by what followed. You seem to trying your best to ignore all the signs telling you to walk away. No log book, rough looking and lights on the dash? It'd want to be a free car tbh. Any mention of service history of any sort?

Deleted User wrote: »

The car seems alright for what it is. There are a few things that are niggling at me, but nothing that's screaming at me to run away. The seller seems decent enough.


So I'm willing to get it checked over by a mechanic at the least, and see what comes of that. If he raises anything unreasonable, then I'll start to get my walking shoes on, but if it's given a green light, i think it could be a fairly reasonable purchase.


For example, there is an engine light on. Owner isn't sure why. The car went through the NCT recently (it's valid til Feb '17) so it must not have been illuminated at that time. I'm not sure if that's a good thing (catching a potential problem early on). I'm hoping a worthwhile mechanic will be able to do have a good look and figure out if it's a serious problem or a trivial issue.


There's also another light, but I'm not sure what it is. Perhaps someone here can identify?





.

_Tyrrell_

_Tyrrell_ wrote: »

My Golf passed the NCT a couple of weeks back with the check engine light on, they don't fail on it. I'd definitely have a mechanic look over it if you're thinking about buying it, but to be honest I'd run a mile due to the fact there's no logbook, the check engine light and the fact the owner didn't even bother to tax it means it probably wasn't taken care of that well. To each their own though.

As far as im lead to believe, any illuminated light on the dash is an instant nct fail?

My aim is to bring it to a mechanic who will hopefully have some diagnostic equipment that can get codes.

The car does have a few headaches attached, of that there is no doubt, but if it checks out I think it'd still be a worthwhile purchase. I'll know more tomorrow, hopefully (aiming to get it checked over, but as I'm only ringing mechanics in the morning, they might not be abke to take me. I'll try a few and hopefully sort something out for tomorrow though).

After that it's a call to Shannon to ask about changing it over to my ownership without a logbook.

I'm seeing that replacing EGR valves (what that dash light is) can be about 300-400. At the price I'm paying VS what they tend to normally go for, I'm not too upset at the thoughts of having to replace that (still works out a good deal and I have the comfort of knowing it's been sorted).

I'm finding it difficult to class it as a bad buy, despite it's flaws. My biggest concern is buying it, splashing the cash on it, and the Gardai come knocking saying I stole it and the owner wants it back. (that's assuming a mechanic doesn't tell me it's in need of a new engine!) haha.

Squidgy Black

EML isn't a fail. Other lights such as traction, ABS etc are though.

mgbgt1978

They did well to get an NCT cert on a car that can't be on the DoE system yet (as a VRC has yet to be generated).



....and EML only a Fail (technically a refusal to test) on a diesel.

There are more Vitara's out there, the EML alone should put you off.....never mind the fact they couldn't, or wouldn't, tax it even for 3 months.

mgbgt1978

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

They did well to get an NCT cert on a car that can't be on the DoE system yet (as a VRC has yet to be generated).

Well the NCT is genuine according to NCT's own site.

....and EML only a Fail (technically a refusal to test) on a diesel

What's EML? I'm missing something obvious, I feel..



I had the car looked over by a mechanic, anyway. So I'm gonna post my findings here incase anyone else ends up looking at it and does a quick google.

The reg on the Grand Vitara is 06 LH 11455 / 06LH11455

Mechanic reckoned the following:

Air Conditioning system needs filling.
Air Conditioning pump is on it's way out.
Auxiliary belt tensioner / serpentine belt is squealing and on the way out.
Front brake pads need to be replaced.
Front passenger tyre needs replacing.
EGR has to be replaced (thought as much).
Front Wishbone Bushings (he wrote "x2 big" after that.. not sure what means exactly).
Back Differential Bushings.
Flywheel rattling.


He also is of the opinion that the car was crashed on the driver's side. He said the chassis is fine, and not at all damaged, but the panels have definitely been replaced and resprayed at some point.

He reckons I'd be into it 'at least' a grand on those repairs.

Add to that the aesthetics that I'd like fixed:

Passenger side wing mirror cover missing (€70 for a set of chrome covers online or buy the full mirror off a scrappie for €150 if i want to stick with black).
The plastic spare tyre cover on the back is cracked a fair bit on the bottom (probably lightly reversed into something).
The lower grille on the front of the car isn't sitting correctly in place.
Back bumper appears to be sitting ever so slightly wide on the body on both sides, and feels a tad loose on the right side.




They were asking €4,350 but went to €3,250 with little effort (which set alarm bells ringing straight away). Then, after I told them repeatedly i was getting a mechanic to check the car over, once we actually pulled up at the mechanics, they said no, and told the mechanic to get out of the car (he was just about to drive it into the garage) and that they wouldn't let him test it (before changing their mind when I started to say my goodbyes).


Being the fool I am, after it was checked, I made a reluctant offer of €3,000. But they said no (thankfully, as I was just being impulsive at the time and later realised what an error it would have been).



Yer man said that if I didn't buy it off him today (yesterday) that he was going to take the ad down off donedeal, and put it up again in a few days with the bodywork cleaned up and looking for more money for it. Sure enough, when I checked today, the ad is taken down.


So I'm just posting it here incase anyone here happens to know someone looking for an SUV that may wander upon this one. Best to save your cash. My rough estimation (from a bit of googling) is that if you wanted to sort out all the problems, mechanical and bodywise, you'd be looking at a figure of around €2,500 (give or take).


Doesn't make it quite such a good deal.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Also, actually, wouldn't be fair to write all the bad without putting up the positive aspect of it...

Tomas Naruso (unsure if I spelt that correctly), of Perfect Car in Dundalk checked it over for me. He was fantastic. I mean, genuinely fantastic. Once the couple started acting up and told him to get out of the car he wasn't allowed test it, he was as courteous and professional as could be, as well as factual (when they started screaming about it having an NCT, he was swift to put them in their place about it not really meaning anything when buying a car, in terms of mechanical well-being, etc.)


He was (a per the list above) very thorough, he did a diagnostics check as well as a general look-over, gave me an honest opinion and gave me some rough pricing for the bits that need doing to it. His general attitude and demeanour were very good, and I'd definitely highly recommend him.

I actually think he might be known to some of ye, as when i did a google of the name perfect car, I found him posting (as Naruso) on some BMW forums (BMWHaus? Is that a BMW forum name?) and I seen one or two familiar names in threads with him (I remember seeing Curran's name, but can't recall the other ones off hand).

mgbgt1978

EML is simply Engine Management Light.

Sounds like the biggest expense would be the Flywheel, assuming it's a DMF (Dual-Mass Flywheel).

As well as the receipt from the VRT they should also have the Form for 1st taxing it (an RF100 which would have been filled in at the VRT office). It's this along with an explanation letter that needs to be sent off to Shannon to change ownership prior to 1st Taxing the car.
https://www.westmeathcoco.ie/en/media/RF100.pdf

colm_mcm

You'd easily spend €2-3k on getting that list done.

R.O.R

LJZ3168 or 06LH11455 is showing as a UK write off.

Never seen that before - usually just get a warning that there is an insurance alert on the vehicle.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

punisher5112

Honestly the minute there was no log book in any sentence you should have ran KKV.

I fully understand when you see something and you think is nice you just want to buy but honestly look into the car more 1st before wasting so much time and money.

If you are looking for similar and happens to be from UK why not look up a decent UK car on autotrader.co.uk

Stick up any ideas of a car and some on here may be able to help/guide you.

Good luck in the search....

Well I've kinda settled on wanting a Vitara, to be honest. That said, I'm willing to keep my budget low and get one that has a few small issues. I don't mind spending a few euro on repairs on a car, because I have a mechanic that takes good care of me on price (family friend) and always does a decent job or tries suitable workarounds whenever possible.

But spending the price of the car in repairs, and having a UK import that was crashed.. come re-sale time (6 months from now, knowing me) I'd have a hard time selling it I reckon.



That said...

I was out looking at this, today:

http://cars.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/suzuki-grand-vitara-1-9-diesel-4x4-nct/9901073?offset=1


They were decent enough and just handed me the keys and let me wander off of my own accord. I couldn't quite get the bonnet open (and I opened it handy enough on the other one) so I'm not sure if I was just having a foolish moment, or if the catch on the bonnet is gone/broke (the button inside to 'pop' it was there and fine, i mean the part you'd press that's connected to the bonnet itself when you try to lift it).


Out from that, it also had the EGR light on, which is unfortunate (although I'm not too fussed about it if it's the only real repair that's required). The driver side seat was cut at the side and a bit of the cushion/padding had come out (meaning you'd a bit of a flat ass on the driver side, where the door is). This wasn't helped by the fact that they parked it with it's two left wheels on a path.. further enhancing the feeling that you're about to fall out of the car. Haha.


Drove it for about 5-10 minutes into a housing estate. Got up to 4th gear but there are a lot of speed bumps along the road so it wasn't ideal. Yer man reckons the pads in it need changing.

Bodywork seems good enough. Nothing too noticeable. All the panels seemed to go together okay. I didn't really look for mis-matching paint. All the electrics seemed to work, although there was a button broke on the centre console (the direction of the air from the fans is dictated by pressing buttons, and the button for air going to both the face and feet was broke). You could still use all the other buttons though (including auto, which I think seemed to be face/feet combo anyway).


Didn't think I'd like it in silver, but it seems okay in person. Black would be my preference.

Biggest issue I have is they won't let you take the car away to a mechanic. Only let you bring a mechanic to them (which I believe would be somewhat useless? Mechanic that has no access to a ramp? Is there any point?).


I'd like to have low-balled them on it, but it's only in the door (the ad was up 2 hours when I found it). I reckon if I waited it out I'd be able to haggle them hard on it (as I can't imagine a queue of people out the door to buy it, for some reason, but then again.. I could be wrong. They just don't seem to be great sellers from what I can see).

On leaving, I just told him I don't he'd sell if for anything I'd consider reasonable, and I don't think I'd offer anything he'd consider reasonable. He seemed sound enough. Said he reckoned that 'the boss' would drop a couple of hundred on the price, but as it's only in the door, they wouldn't drop by much. Which I do understand.

Interior was in dire need of cleaning, though. Was filthy.

EDIT: A DL reg usually sends me running, screaming, but it seemed to be okay. There was also no noises coming or going when I depressed and released the clutch. For a car with it's mileage, the gears didn't seem too sloppy either and felt tight enough going into position.


Tempted to ring them in the morning with an offer of 3,350 or something. Doubt they'd even consider it, but it's the only price point I'd really consider it at. I reckon I'd potentially go over the €4k mark in just getting it prepped for the NCT.

As an aside, has anyone dealt with Kylemore before?

How are they with pricing/haggling/negotiating/whatever you want to call it?

Whenever I look at car prices I knock 10% off instantly. And any car I've ever bought I've always gotten at least that off the asking price (usually 15-20%). But I've only ever bought privately, so.

My assumption is that Kylemore won't really care how much it sells for, as long as they X amount of profit off it? I presume they'd have offered the person trading it in, about 2,000 - 2,500 for it (but that's just guesswork based on the asking price).

They obviously are clued in enough to know that no one is paying the asking price, so would have that inflated above what they actually expect to get.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

punisher5112

Fred Swanson wrote: »

I love the way they have "Trade sales only no warranty" in the background.

Trade sale at a top sale price and no warranty wow I would be quite worried.

Why not buy a petrol Honda or Toyota similar as I would defo say they would be more reliable.

The vitaras you are looking at are what sound and look like they have been well used and abused.

Hopefully there is a nice one out there.

punisher5112

punisher5112 wrote: »

Trade sale at a top sale price and no warranty wow I would be quite worried.

Why not buy a petrol Honda or Toyota similar as I would defo say they would be more reliable.

Ah I'm sure they would be. Petrol engines in general tend to be a bit more reliable than their diesel counterparts from what I can see.

That said, just doing rough figures, I reckon, since getting the focus (which had 171k miles on it when I got it 6 months ago, and now has.. I think.. 183k, that works out at approximately 40,000km per year, which I would say is safely putting me in 'worth buying a diesel' territory.

The vitaras you are looking at are what sound and look like they have been well used and abused.

Hopefully there is a nice one out there.

I think all Vitara's will tend to have had a rough / farmer past. I'd imagine most of them were sold new to farmers as per there 4wd, or at least, to people into their horses, for towing the box around (probably more horse owners than farmers, in fairness) but either way I'd say a majority of them were equipped with tow bars fairly swiftly, and spent time in muddy or grassy areas.

The black one i was initially looking at, looked rough, but look 'family' rough. Like it had kids swinging out of it and it was getting its doors banged into by other cars a lot, kinda thing.

In fairness to whoever owned the one that Kylemore have,the bodywork actually seems pretty decent. Seems relatively well taken care of. It does, however, seem fairly neglected on the inside.

Looks like the kinda car that had a few owners who cherished it, but one bad one that didn't give a feck about it.

The DL thing also gets me worried, too. DL cars always seem to have every accessory under the sun tacked onto them (in this case, chrome bars front and back and side steps to match), but they also tend to be lowered and look like the bollocks has been drove out of them (admittedly, this is more true for 'normal' cars rather than SUVs/Jeeps etc.).


I'd definitely be interested in the silver one that Kylemore have, and in fairness to them, it's not grossly overpriced for what it is (certainly, in comparison to the black one iw as looking at, it seems more reasonable, and doesn't require any spending on exterior bodywork).

I'd definitely hand them €3,300. but I don't think they'd take it.

Were ye guys mentioning before that there was a site that sold cars, I think, and if you entered the reg plate of a car it told you how many previous owners it had? I remember there was a way of finding out but not sure how..

R.O.R

R.O.R wrote: »

LJZ3168 or 06LH11455 is showing as a UK write off.

Never seen that before - usually just get a warning that there is an insurance alert on the vehicle.

How did you get that info out of curiousity? I didn't see that anywhere? Presumably you have access to free motorchecks or such? (I'm guessing you're a dealer or involved somewhere along that route?)

Care to check 06 DL 501? :P Knowing my luck it's a clocked import that's been written off with finance owing. (I doubt it's any of those four, though, in real life).

colm_mcm

I will say it again, you are asking to get sold a lemon.
I have some magic beans I can sell you. Would be a better investment than the bottom of the pile examples of a car that is known for its fragility.
I urge you to rethink your strategy.

punisher5112

KKV why don't you look at the likes of a nice Honda civic/accord diesel or skoda octavia/superb, vw golf/passat, ford mondeo all diesel of course.

The vitara wouldn't be the cheapest to run if your looking to save money so get a half decent diesel and save on fuel.

punisher5112

Also if you are planning on buying or investing time into a car do a proper history check into the car especially if from the uk .

colm_mcm

colm_mcm wrote: »

I will say it again, you are asking to get sold a lemon.
I have some magic beans I can sell you. Would be a better investment than the bottom of the pile examples of a car that is known for its fragility.
I urge you to rethink your strategy.

Well.. depends how you look at it.

Let's say I come to the 4,500 one that's here:

http://cars.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/quick-sale-suzuki-grand-vitara/9903151?offset=11


For an extra €550 on the asking price, I get a car that has "2 owners from new" with a full service history... but changed hands less than 2 months ago.


Or I could practically double my budget, to this asking price of €6,000..

http://cars.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/suzuki-vitara-2006-for-sale/9897060?sv=1


And get a car that has a 'genuine reason for sale', that also changed hands about 2 months ago.


This one looks desirable:


http://cars.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/suzuki-grand-vitara-07-nct-diesel/9873006?offset=22


but mostly could be just window dressing (ie; they cleaned it up a bit, but could be just as much hassle as the ones I've looked at, mechanically).

My theory is that if I spend less on the purchase, it won't sting as much if I've to put a few Euro into repairs. I'd rather spend €1,000 repairing a €3,000 jeep than a €5,000 one.


... although that 2007 one has piqued my interest a tad.

punisher5112

punisher5112 wrote: »

KKV why don't you look at the likes of a nice Honda civic/accord diesel or skoda octavia/superb, vw golf/passat, ford mondeo all diesel of course.

The vitara wouldn't be the cheapest to run if your looking to save money so get a half decent diesel and save on fuel.

I liked the higher seating position that the Rav4 had. Found it a much more comfortable and enjoyable drive all-round. I don't mind the Focus I have, or the 407 that came before that, but the Rav's higher seating position made it more enjoyable to me (I know some people hate SUVs and thats fair enough, but I enjoy them).

I also enjoy when I'm driving bigger vans, etc. too for the same reason haha. (albeit, it's rare I'd be driving a van these days).

punisher5112 wrote: »

Also if you are planning on buying or investing time into a car do a proper history check into the car especially if from the uk .

I don't really care about history checks to be honest. If I was buying a newer car that had the potential to have finance owed, then I'd do a check.

For a 10 year old, I'd rather spend the same money on a mechanic giving it a once over.

colm_mcm

I think you're underestimating how much these jobs would cost you.

Those vitaras throw wobblers every now and again, expensive maintainance jobs. You want one where the previous owner actually addressed these as they happened rather than just ignore them. Otherwise you'll have to address them. Which means you're paying top dollar for a neglected example.

Why bother?

colm_mcm

colm_mcm wrote: »

I think you're underestimating how much these jobs would cost you.

Those vitaras throw wobblers every now and again, expensive maintainance jobs. You want one where the previous owner actually addressed these as they happened rather than just ignore them. Otherwise you'll have to address them. Which means you're paying top dollar for a neglected example.

Why bother?

I presume you'd be more in favour of something along the lines of this?


http://cars.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/lovely-rav4-priced-to-sell/9258175?offset=4


How do they stack up for reliability? I know my old one was fine, but it was a petrol engine 1.8. I can only assume the 2.2 is quite thirsty?


Although that said the Vitara's appearance is what initially put it in my sites.

colm_mcm

I'm not really a fan of that model tbh. 2.3 tax a bit hard to swallow too.

I'm saying, don't just buy any old shoite because it's cheap

mgbgt1978

I am finding it hard to understand why you would buy a diesel that averages 38mpg when most 1.6 petrols will easily equal that and come in cheaper and be more reliable etc, etc.

You have already said that you are looking at diesel's as you will cover 40k per annum. Surely you should be looking for a diesel that will average at least high 40's in the mpg stakes.

mgbgt1978

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

I am finding it hard to understand why you would buy a diesel that averages 38mpg when most 1.6 petrols will easily equal that and come in cheaper and be more reliable etc, etc.

You have already said that you are looking at diesel's as you will cover 40k per annum. Surely you should be looking for a diesel that will average at least high 40's in the mpg stakes.

I liked the high seating position that the Rav4 had. Found it more fun to drive and enjoyed it 'wobbling' around tight bends and such. (I know, I'm really "anti-driver", as most people tend to enjoy the opposite).

I like the bit of ground clearance for when I'm out at the beach or crossing sand dunes (nothing a 'normal' car can't do, but just feels less on-edge in an SUV. Don't feel like you're about to break something all the time :P ).


I enjoyed the Rav4's height. I also enjoyed the 'nippiness' of the 407 I had though. That could fairly move (I think it was 136bhp, so probably not 'fast' by most people on here's experiences, but I enjoyed it and it was a much speedier car than the Rav4. Enjoyed overtaking in it and such).


I've had the Focus for about 6 months now and it's been great. But I feel like changing. I was going to go back to an SUV again (hence looking at the Vitaras), but I think I might just drop it for a couple more weeks/months. NCT is booked for the focus for the 29th. It's definitely gonna fail (it needs new tyres anyway, but Im not putting new ones on it until i see what else it fails on. If it's all simple stuff I'll fix it, but if there's bigger issues then I'll replace it).



So I'm a bit up in the air at the moment. I've enjoyed test driving the Vitara's, but they just seem a bit banged up and are starting to put me off changing. The interior on the focus is pretty immaculate (its an 01), so I'm finding it annoying that both 06 Vitaras I've drove have interiors that are in bits.

I just want something a bit different, I think.

punisher5112

Hi KKV you really need to be looking at a decent diesel with the mileage you are putting up.

I get what you mean about sitting up higher as I do feel the same way as I've had many many 4x4s and cars.

I miss the height but don't miss the fuel bills as they were so much higher.

I have a Isuzu trooper but only use occasionally as its the worst 4x4 on juice I've ever had.
I'm doing anywhere between 350 & 550 miles a week in a 2.0 vRS petrol so i idealy should have a diesel to have less costs for fuel but money is low so can't change for a while.