Diet review plz - How healthy is this? How to improve?

Chemical Byrne

Hello,

I am m, going on 29 soon and I am generally in good enough shape with average fitness and I am generally happy enough with my weight and body composition in the main. I'm 5'9", of athletic build (slim but not scrawny), approx 67kg and stable.

Don't smoke, don't drink alcohol of fizzies and generally stay away from junk except for the odd biscuit 1 or 2 evenings sometimes.

Exercise wise I do a bit but I am certainly no endurance or triathlon fanatic by any stretch. Crossfit class twice a week; 10-15km cycle once or twice a week; basic 15-20 minute bodyweight workout at home on Saturdays.

I had a shocking diet up to the new year, but turned things around diet and exercise wise. Although my diet is vastly better what it was I am still unsure as to how good it is. I am hoping you could give some feedback on what you think of it from a weight/body comp maintenance and nutritional point of view. Am I eating too much or too little? For me making my food is all about convenience - I choose this diet because the meals a quick & easy to prepare.

Here would be my typical day:

Breakfast 0800:
-100g oat porridge made on water, with a teaspoon of honey
-2 boiled eggs
-1 mug of green tea or white tea, (plain, no milk or suger, obv!)

Morning 1030 break
-1 mug green or white tea
-1 nature valley cereal bar, maybe every other day
-1 plum or a few grapes

Lunch 1300
-sandwich on sliced Aldi wholemeal bread with: real butter; cheddar cheese; Ballymaloe Relish; cucumber or cherry tomato; lettuce or salad of some sort; some chicken fillet pieces
-bowl of chopped fruit (apple/mango/banana/grapes) with 3 or 4 desertspoonfuls of low/no fat yogurt
-1 or 2 mugs of green or white tea

Dinner 1900 (this is the main variable here)
Option 1 - salad
- 1 large chicken fillet done on a George Foreman
- salad lettuce mix
- 1 carrot
- 2 slices cheddar
- cherry toms
- 3 salad potatoes
- balsamic vinegar or caesar dressing

Option 2 - meat & veg
- 2 lean pork chops done on a George Foreman
- boiled salad potatoes; green beans; carrots; broccoli; maybe a bit of side salad

Option 3 - Stir fry
-75g pasta noodles
-2 pork chops or a large chicken fillet
- shot of olive oil
- half jar of black bean or some other stir fry sauce
- chopped veg: peppers, carrots, broccoli etc

Evening snack, 2000-2100
- 2 mugs green or white tea. Always.
- maybe a few biscuits or a 2 finger kitkat. Not every day, maybe every other day max or 3rd day

I only ever drink wither water or green/white tea. When I go out I drink sparkling water only. I don't have takeaways or greasy foods with any regularity, except for the very odd occasion where it's called for, work night, social event. BBQ last night but can't remember last time I ate greasy before that, few weeks maybe.

Thanks
John

Chemical Byrne

Anyone?

strelok

i pop my diet into cronometer and take a look at what i'm missing every now and again, the only real way you can say a diet is 'healthy' is if it's providing the proper amount of nutrients your body needs


i'd skip the cereal bar and replace with nuts or something but that's just me, diet looks fine. if you're looking to build muscle it looks a little protein-lite and it also looks a little low fat for my tastes but sure whatever works for you. pop your average day or two into cronometer and just have a look at what pops up, there might be a glaring deficiency you can easily address to improve things

if you're looking for a recomp youll want to focus on protein to build muscle, carbs to give you energy and fat because fat is needed for the body to work properly, then you'll want to keep an eye on calories so you are losing weight while you gain muscle instead of just getting fat (or even just losing weight without building much muscle at all). myfitnesspal (or again, cronometer.. although i prefer mfp for this) will be useful here, track your daily eating every day.. find out how many calories you should be eating for your goals as well as the macros you should be aiming for (ratio of protein/carbs/fat) and then stick to it

the only way you'll find out if you're eating too much/too little is after sticking to a diet for 2-3 weeks and then looking at the scales/body measurements. 2000 calories would be maintenance (no weight loss or gain) for me if I sat on my ass doing nothing all day but i've been maintaining on 2500-2800 for a while cos I just walk around quite a bit during the day

strelok

also where you getting all this white tea, always wanted to try that

Alf Veedersane

strelok wrote: »

i pop my diet into cronometer and take a look at what i'm missing every now and again, the only real way you can say a diet is 'healthy' is if it's providing the proper amount of nutrients your body needs


i'd skip the cereal bar and replace with nuts or something but that's just me, diet looks fine. if you're looking to build muscle it looks a little protein-lite and it also looks a little low fat for my tastes but sure whatever works for you. pop your average day or two into cronometer and just have a look at what pops up, there might be a glaring deficiency you can easily address to improve things

if you're looking for a recomp youll want to focus on protein to build muscle, carbs to give you energy and fat because fat is needed for the body to work properly, then you'll want to keep an eye on calories so you are losing weight while you gain muscle instead of just getting fat (or even just losing weight without building much muscle at all). myfitnesspal (or again, cronometer.. although i prefer mfp for this) will be useful here, track your daily eating every day.. find out how many calories you should be eating for your goals as well as the macros you should be aiming for (ratio of protein/carbs/fat) and then stick to it

the only way you'll find out if you're eating too much/too little is after sticking to a diet for 2-3 weeks and then looking at the scales/body measurements. 2000 calories would be maintenance (no weight loss or gain) for me if I sat on my ass doing nothing all day but i've been maintaining on 2500-2800 for a while cos I just walk around quite a bit during the day

MyFitnessPal is useful for calorie and macro breakdowns as well but cronometer for the nutrients

Chemical Byrne

Hmm I will look up that cronometer thing.

I actually thought I was too even a bit too heavy on the protein with chicken in my sandwich and 2 chops or large fillet for dinner.

I totally agree with scrapping the cereal bar, it is really only an opportunistic treat from the charity tuck shop in the canteen in work. I hear soaked chickpeas are great for protein. I might substitute those for the tea time snack. Or maybe hazel nuts.

Oh as regards the white tea, I get it in big 250g bags of leaves and I blend it down to powder using a hand blender. It almost dissolves in the hot water and it allows much greater extraction of the beneficial nutrients. Then to the powder I add enough Vitamin C that will equate to 30mg per 100ml of tea infusion. Vit C increases absorption of the catechin antioxidants. There's a few good studies on it.
White tea is supposedly more beneficial than green tea according to research to date. In addition to all the benefits of green tea at is shown to be excellent for your skin and acts as a systemic sunscreen and promotes maintenance of collagen & elastin (actually it inhibits the enzymes that degrade C&E. So it keeps skin fresh and supple. I've noticed my skin has vastly improved since I started although it could also be partially due to better lifestyle all round too. Used to get rash on forhead & bad dandruff. All gone now since I cleaned up my act, I suspect the tea helped as it's reported to be good for skin and reducing inflamation.
I'm a bit of a tea buff in case you hadn't noticed.

The dried loose tea leaves are by far the best and lovely to drink. The stuff in the teabags is muck. I can get you some if you're interested. You can PM me.

strelok

well it's hard to know if it's too much or not without weighing the portions of chicken and the pork chops, a cheap electronic kitchen scales will be very useful for you.

beans are decent for protein too. bit of rice, some pinto beans. can easily be thrown into some tupperware and be reheated. you need to eat quite a bit of protein before it's "too much" although you can quite easily eat more than you need and it does tend to be fairly expensive at least compared to carbs. .7g of protein per lb of bodyweight is a standardish aiming point (if you're trying to build muscle). it's actually meant to be .7g per lb of lean body mass iirc but unless you're quite obese the two figures will be near enough each other that it won't make a difference really. iirc fat is .4g per lb of bodyweight and then the rest you just make up with carbs. delicious carbs.



i might pm you later alright.. it all sounds very expensive, ill have to ponder finances while i sip some 50% extra free 3.49 a bag bewleys coffee

A_Sober_Paddy

Chemical Byrne wrote: »

Hello,

I am m, going on 29 soon and I am generally in good enough shape with average fitness and I am generally happy enough with my weight and body composition in the main. I'm 5'9", of athletic build (slim but not scrawny), approx 67kg and stable.

Don't smoke, don't drink alcohol of fizzies and generally stay away from junk except for the odd biscuit 1 or 2 evenings sometimes.

Exercise wise I do a bit but I am certainly no endurance or triathlon fanatic by any stretch. Crossfit class twice a week; 10-15km cycle once or twice a week; basic 15-20 minute bodyweight workout at home on Saturdays.

I had a shocking diet up to the new year, but turned things around diet and exercise wise. Although my diet is vastly better what it was I am still unsure as to how good it is. I am hoping you could give some feedback on what you think of it from a weight/body comp maintenance and nutritional point of view. Am I eating too much or too little? For me making my food is all about convenience - I choose this diet because the meals a quick & easy to prepare.

Here would be my typical day:

Breakfast 0800:
-100g oat porridge made on water, with a teaspoon of honey
-2 boiled eggs
-1 mug of green tea or white tea, (plain, no milk or suger, obv!)

Morning 1030 break
-1 mug green or white tea
-1 nature valley cereal bar, maybe every other day
-1 plum or a few grapes

Lunch 1300
-sandwich on sliced Aldi wholemeal bread with: real butter; cheddar cheese; Ballymaloe Relish; cucumber or cherry tomato; lettuce or salad of some sort; some chicken fillet pieces
-bowl of chopped fruit (apple/mango/banana/grapes) with 3 or 4 desertspoonfuls of low/no fat yogurt
-1 or 2 mugs of green or white tea

Dinner 1900 (this is the main variable here)
Option 1 - salad
- 1 large chicken fillet done on a George Foreman
- salad lettuce mix
- 1 carrot
- 2 slices cheddar
- cherry toms
- 3 salad potatoes
- balsamic vinegar or caesar dressing

Option 2 - meat & veg
- 2 lean pork chops done on a George Foreman
- boiled salad potatoes; green beans; carrots; broccoli; maybe a bit of side salad

Option 3 - Stir fry
-75g pasta noodles
-2 pork chops or a large chicken fillet
- shot of olive oil
- half jar of black bean or some other stir fry sauce
- chopped veg: peppers, carrots, broccoli etc

Evening snack, 2000-2100
- 2 mugs green or white tea. Always.
- maybe a few biscuits or a 2 finger kitkat. Not every day, maybe every other day max or 3rd day

I only ever drink wither water or green/white tea. When I go out I drink sparkling water only. I don't have takeaways or greasy foods with any regularity, except for the very odd occasion where it's called for, work night, social event. BBQ last night but can't remember last time I ate greasy before that, few weeks maybe.

Thanks
John

The main thing i've noticed, where is the fats? Do you eat nuts or seeds? You have eggs and some olive oil but not much else that I can see

Chemical Byrne

Well there is:
-butter on the sandwich,
-cheese in sandwich and salad on salad days
-the olive oil in stir fries and some in salad
-the chicken & pork would have some fat, probably reduced by the GF grill
-the occasional biscuit or kitkat would have fat (albeit probably bad fat)
-and the eggs as you say

Would there not be enough fat in there?

No, I don't have any nuts or seeds. I'm thinking of getting hazel nuts. Would a fist of hazelnuts per day be sufficient to boost fat?
How much fat is too much? Which fats should I avoid?

What are the consequences / symptoms of having too little fat in one's diet?

strelok

it can affect vitamin absorbtion and low fat can throw your hormones a bit out of wack I believe. I generally feel a lot better when I'm on a moderate-high fat diet than when i tried low fat, i was tired the whole time and just felt quite run down

almonds would be better than hazelnuts imo, aldi and lidl do them quite cheap. good source of magnesium too


myfitnesspal will be useful figuring out how much fat you're taking. multiply your body weight by .4 and aim for around there, then adjust up or down in the following months and see how you feel.


////

also don't feel under any pressure to get everything right straight away, you just won't. minor improvements to your diet over time will be a lot more sustainable and you'll have more time to process and learn about why you're adding 15g of activated wheat germ to your morning eggs (picked random health sounding words, dont know if activated wheat germ is actually a thing)

Chemical Byrne

OK so. I got sick with glandular fever in August after being in SE Asia and plummeted to 62kg. Now I am back to 66.5kg.

Alterations to the above diet since my last posting include:

Breakfast
- Changed to 85g porridge w. 15g of flax/sunflower seed mixed in. Microwaved for 3 min.
- Otherwise the same.

Morning Break, 1045
- elimination of cereal bars, biscuits, chocolate as a regular thing. (The odd one at weekend or a bun or whatever when out with gf)
-1 slice of oatmeal soda bread, no butter.

Lunch
- 110g natural yoghurt with 30g pulped almond/hazelnut/walnut mixed in.
- chicken (100g) or salmon salad for lunch, occasionally with baked potato.
- no more bread based sandwiches

Dinner
No changes really.


Drinks
Still on water & tea only. No fizzies and no juices anymore. Occasionally milk.
I've started adding 1g of sugar to each cup of white tea as I read a study that it increases absorption of the antioxidants during digestion. I'd drink 4x 330ml cups per day (2g tea, 75mg AA, 1g sugar)

Penny Tration

You seem to have reduced your fat intake by removing the butter and cheese?

Try up your fat intake again. You have some with the yogurt and nut combo (assuming you're not using fat free yogurt), but maybe add some more fats from milk, butter, cheese, avocado and eggs to the diet. Boiled eggs or avocado are really easy to snack on, milk is easy to drink.

Dunno what benefits there are to adding sugar to tea, but you're not using an awful lot so it shouldn't cause any issues anyway

Irish_rat

The natural yogurt with almonds and walnuts is good. I usually include a few raspberries, strawberries and clementines to give it a great taste. Obviously I eat this and never blend.

EDIT: Macadamia nuts are really nice too.

Dtp1979

Chemical Byrne wrote: »

OK so. I got sick with glandular fever in August after being in SE Asia and plummeted to 62kg. Now I am back to 66.5kg.

Alterations to the above diet since my last posting include:

Breakfast
- Changed to 85g porridge w. 15g of flax/sunflower seed mixed in. Microwaved for 3 min.
- Otherwise the same.

Morning Break, 1045
- elimination of cereal bars, biscuits, chocolate as a regular thing. (The odd one at weekend or a bun or whatever when out with gf)
-1 slice of oatmeal soda bread, no butter.

Lunch
- 110g natural yoghurt with 30g pulped almond/hazelnut/walnut mixed in.
- chicken (100g) or salmon salad for lunch, occasionally with baked potato.
- no more bread based sandwiches

Dinner
No changes really.


Drinks
Still on water & tea only. No fizzies and no juices anymore. Occasionally milk.
I've started adding 1g of sugar to each cup of white tea as I read a study that it increases absorption of the antioxidants during digestion. I'd drink 4x 330ml cups per day (2g tea, 75mg AA, 1g sugar)

Where do you get your tea?

njs030

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Where do you get your tea?

Health shops sell white tea.

Chemical Byrne

Would adding extra olive oil to my salads be a good idea? Or should I have a mix of animal and plant fats?

joeprivate

A little bit of research has given me this info on olive oil
Most people have heard and read that olive oil is healthy, and that they should be consuming it often. This common misconception comes from the presence of olive oil in the Mediterranean diet, which is heart-healthy compared to the standard western diet.

The human body has no essential need to consume oils rich in monounsaturated fat or saturated fat. The only fat our body has an essential need to consume are the polyunsaturated fats (both omega 6 and omega 3), and no more than 2 to 4% of our calories need come from these two polyunsaturated fatty acids.

Olive oil is a very poor source of omega 3s. You’d have to drink seven ounces of olive oil to get sufficient omega 3s. Seven ounces of olive oil is 1,800 calories and 30 grams of saturated fat (yes, a percentage of the fat that makes up olive oil is saturated, and olive oil is far higher in saturated fat than in essential polyunsaturated fat.)

When researchers from the University of Crete recently compared residents of Crete who had heart disease with residents free of the disease, they found that the residents with heart disease ate a diet with “significantly higher daily intakes” of monounsaturated fats (principally from olive oil) as well as higher fat intake overall. British J of Nutr, 2004; 91 (6); 1013.

Oils are the most calorie–dense foods on earth. Ounce for ounce, oil packs even more calories than butter or bacon. A diet with hefty amounts of oil invariably produces hefty amounts of body fat, which leads to all sorts of devastating diseases, including our #1 killer: heart disease.
So, is olive oil better than butter? Yes. But is it good in and of itself? No.

Only plants can synthesize omega-3 and omega-6 fats. These are referred to as “essential fats.” We, like all other animals, must get these essential fats directly by eating plants or indirectly by eating animals that ate plants and stored these essential fats in their tissues. For example, fish store the omega-3 fats made by algae—fish cannot synthesize this kind of fat.

A_Sober_Paddy

joeprivate wrote: »

A little bit of research has given me this info on olive oil
Most people have heard and read that olive oil is healthy, and that they should be consuming it often. This common misconception comes from the presence of olive oil in the Mediterranean diet, which is heart-healthy compared to the standard western diet.

The human body has no essential need to consume oils rich in monounsaturated fat or saturated fat. The only fat our body has an essential need to consume are the polyunsaturated fats (both omega 6 and omega 3), and no more than 2 to 4% of our calories need come from these two polyunsaturated fatty acids.

Olive oil is a very poor source of omega 3s. You’d have to drink seven ounces of olive oil to get sufficient omega 3s. Seven ounces of olive oil is 1,800 calories and 30 grams of saturated fat (yes, a percentage of the fat that makes up olive oil is saturated, and olive oil is far higher in saturated fat than in essential polyunsaturated fat.)

When researchers from the University of Crete recently compared residents of Crete who had heart disease with residents free of the disease, they found that the residents with heart disease ate a diet with “significantly higher daily intakes” of monounsaturated fats (principally from olive oil) as well as higher fat intake overall. British J of Nutr, 2004; 91 (6); 1013.

Oils are the most calorie–dense foods on earth. Ounce for ounce, oil packs even more calories than butter or bacon. A diet with hefty amounts of oil invariably produces hefty amounts of body fat, which leads to all sorts of devastating diseases, including our #1 killer: heart disease.
So, is olive oil better than butter? Yes. But is it good in and of itself? No.

Only plants can synthesize omega-3 and omega-6 fats. These are referred to as “essential fats.” We, like all other animals, must get these essential fats directly by eating plants or indirectly by eating animals that ate plants and stored these essential fats in their tissues. For example, fish store the omega-3 fats made by algae—fish cannot synthesize this kind of fat.

But the plant based form of Omega 3 is ALA, which is no good for the body, we need EPA and DHA which can be made by converting ALA but much of the ALA is destroyed, so if you consumed 500mg of ALA Omega 3 it roughly converts to 100mgs of EPA/DHA combined.

Only a few plant based foods are good sources of ALA-Chia Seeds, Flax(lin) seed and Walnuts

Chemical Byrne

So what should I eat so I can get my fat?

Cod liver oil capsules perhaps?

Penny Tration

Chemical Byrne wrote: »

So what should I eat so I can get my fat?

Cod liver oil capsules perhaps?

Coconut oil, avocado, nuts, eggs, milk

Chemical Byrne

Coconut oil?
Is that not full of situated fat?

Dtp1979

Chemical Byrne wrote: »

Coconut oil?
Is that not full of situated fat?

It depends where it's situated

Chemical Byrne

Sorry, I mean saturated!!

A_Sober_Paddy

Chemical Byrne wrote: »

Sorry, I mean saturated!!

It is but saturated fat is need for the body to function, we need a good balance of saturared and non-saturated fats(1/3 sat 1/3 mono 1/3 poly)

joeprivate

Consumers are taught fish are their only reliable sources of essential omega-3 fatty acids, called eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA), and therefore they believe that by avoiding fish they would suffer serious malnutrition. Sellers of fish oil supplements go so far as to warn, “Supplementation with fish oils that are rich in EPA and DHA is necessary to ensure you are receiving adequate amounts of these nutritionally important fatty acids.”

Coconut oil manufacturers constantly point a finger to the medium chain saturated fatty acids being used for energy expenditure and therefore not being disposed of as fat in adipose tissue. Coconut oil does indeed contain medium chain fatty acids and this may be metabolized differently but there are very few studies to make the conclusion that coconut oil is "ok" or that medium chain saturated fats are negligible. A tablespoon of coconut oil has about 12 grams of total saturated fat. about 8 grams of this is medium chain saturated fat and about 3.7 grams of this is long chain saturated fat. We have an abundance of evidence concluding that long chain saturated fats are harmful so we cannot consider this oil a healthy option based on that alone.
As far as minerals and vitamins go, there is not one significant vitamin or mineral in coconut oil. The only vitamin present in a tablespoon of coconut oil is .1 micrograms of vitamin k which does not even register as a percentage of daily value. Its also absent of any omega 3 fats. Just looking at coconut oils nutritional profile we see that it is clearly a junk food. Junk food is by definition empty calories.

"Despite a paucity of evidence, there are recommendations for pregnant women throughout the world to increase their intake of the omega-3 fatty acid docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) to improve fetal brain development. Our research has been aimed at understanding whether or not those supplements are beneficial," says study leader Professor Maria Makrides, Healthy Mothers, Babies and Children Theme Leader with SAHMRI and Director of WCHRI at the University.

In the study, pregnant women received either DHA supplements or a placebo. The researchers initially found that average cognitive, language, and motor scores did not differ between these children at 18 months of age.

"For our follow-up study, we assessed outcomes at four years of age, a time point when any subtle effects on development should have emerged," Professor Makrides says.

"We found that measures of cognition, the ability to perform complex mental processing, language, and executive functioning - such as memory, reasoning and problem solving - did not differ significantly between the groups.

"Our research does not support prenatal DHA supplementation to enhance early childhood development. Given the amount of marketing that occurs around the use of fish oil supplements for brain development, these are significant findings," Professor Makrides says.



This study has been funded by the National Health and Medical Research Council.

A recent study of a total of 3114 men under 70 years of age with angina (chest pain due to clogged heart arteries) who had been advised to eat two portions of oily fish each week or to take three fish oil capsules daily were found to have a higher risk of cardiac death compared to men not given this advice.1

Patients with coronary heart disease documented by angiograms received either fish oil capsules or olive oil capsules for an average duration of 28 months. Fish oil lowered triglyceride levels by 30%, but not these patients’ cholesterol. The amount of closure (stenosis) increased by 2.4% and 2.6%, respectively. The authors concluded, “Fish oil treatment for 2 years does not promote major favorable changes in the diameter of atherosclerotic coronary arteries."2

A review of 48 randomized controlled trials involving 36,913 participants taking fish oils or eating oily fish, found no health benefits from these “healthy fats,” and concluded, “Long chain and shorter chain omega 3 fats do not have a clear effect on total mortality, combined cardiovascular events, or cancer.”3

1 Burr ML, Ashfield-Watt PA, Dunstan FD, Fehily AM, Breay P, Ashton T, Zotos PC, Haboubi NA, Elwood PC. Lack of benefit of dietary advice to men with angina: results of a controlled trial. Eur J Clin Nutr. 2003 Feb;57(2):193-200.
2 Sacks FM, Stone PH, Gibson CM, Silverman DI, Rosner B, Pasternak RC. Controlled trial of fish oil for regression of human coronary atherosclerosis. HARP Research Group. J Am Coll Cardiol. 1995 Jun;25(7):1492-8.
3 Hooper L, Thompson RL, Harrison RA, Summerbell CD, Ness AR, Moore HJ, Worthington HV, Durrington PN, Higgins JP, Risks and benefits of omega 3 fats for mortality, cardiovascular disease, and cancer: systematic review. BMJ. 2006 Apr 1;332(7544):752-60.

Mellor

joeprivate wrote: »

The human body has no essential need to consume oils rich in monounsaturated fat or saturated fat. The only fat our body has an essential need to consume are the polyunsaturated fats (both omega 6 and omega 3), and no more than 2 to 4% of our calories need come from these two polyunsaturated fatty acids.

Don't confuse essential with optimal. We need at least 2-4% omega's. But you are also ignore (or it wasn't covered in your copy paste) that at less than 10% fat intake our bodies create additional fat through DNL.
It's a hell of a lot easier to consume >10% and save you body the hassle.

Oils are the most calorie–dense foods on earth. Ounce for ounce, oil packs even more calories than butter or bacon.

That is a ridiculous statement and is only there to appeal to fad-dieters. The fact that oil is calorie dense has no place in a discussion tbh. Nobody is suggesting you should eat fats in similar masses to other foods.

A diet with hefty amounts of oil invariably produces hefty amounts of body fat, which leads to all sorts of devastating diseases, including our #1 killer: heart disease.

That's false.

Eating fat doesn't equal weight gain. That's really basic info tbh.

So, is olive oil better than butter? Yes. But is it good in and of itself? No.

I'd argue that butter is better tbh.

Only plants can synthesize omega-3 and omega-6 fats. These are referred to as “essential fats.” We, like all other animals, must get these essential fats directly by eating plants or indirectly by eating animals that ate plants and stored these essential fats in their tissues. For example, fish store the omega-3 fats made by algae—fish cannot synthesize this kind of fat.

Relevance?

That applies to a nubmer of nutrients. The fact we can't synthesize omega-3's is exactly where we should eat them. Are you suggesting we should be eating algae?

Chemically, omega-3's from plants directly, or indirectly is identical.

joeprivate wrote: »

Consumers are taught fish are their only reliable sources of essential omega-3 fatty acids, called eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA),

Plant Omega 3 is more abundent in ALA not EPA/DHA.

Coconut oil does indeed contain medium chain fatty acids and this may be metabolized differently but there are very few studies to make the conclusion that coconut oil is "ok" or that medium chain saturated fats are negligible.

They are metabolized differently. That's a undisputed fact. The pathway is not.
Of course there's no studies to say they are negligible, nothing is negligible. The calorific content is as relevant as any other food.

We have an abundance of evidence concluding that long chain saturated fats are harmful so we cannot consider this oil a healthy option based on that alone.

We also have a abundent of evidence that the above studies fro mthe 70s were very flawed.

As far as minerals and vitamins go, there is not one significant vitamin or mineral in coconut oil.

It's a beneficial source of energy, not of vitamins.
A teaspoon on omega 3 also has no vitamins.

Patients with coronary heart disease documented by angiograms received either fish oil capsules or olive oil capsules for an average duration of 28 months. Fish oil lowered triglyceride levels by 30%, but not these patients’ cholesterol. The amount of closure (stenosis) increased by 2.4% and 2.6%, respectively. The authors concluded, “Fish oil treatment for 2 years does not promote major favorable changes in the diameter of atherosclerotic coronary arteries."2

The fact that it doesn't cure an advance heart condition in 70 year old means its not medicine, it's doesn't mean that its not a healthy food.

As a start, two important items not mentioned
What % of their total calorie intake over those 2 years did fish oil make up? I'd say less than 1 %.
Did over all body fat levels change?

A review of 48 randomized controlled trials involving 36,913 participants taking fish oils or eating oily fish, found no health benefits from these “healthy fats,” and concluded, “Long chain and shorter chain omega 3 fats do not have a clear effect on total mortality, combined cardiovascular events, or cancer.”

Ah, so here it says that omega 3 fats have no benefit - Plant (short) and fish (long) based.
Which contradicts everything you said previously.

Chemical Byrne

Christ lads, when yere finished arguing maybe some one of ye can tell me what to eat?

Alf Veedersane

A couple of helpful posters giving reasoned responses to a post about fats being bad isn't arguing.

Chemical Byrne

I'm told I'm not eating enough fats. I just want to know what and how much fats to eat. I'm not interested in the minute biochemistry detail of each type of fat.

Penny Tration

Chemical Byrne wrote: »

I'm told I'm not eating enough fats. I just want to know what and how much fats to eat. I'm not interested in the minute biochemistry detail of each type of fat.

You've already been told what fats to eat so I don't understand why you're getting snarky with people for having a discussion on fats on a discussion forum.

What you've been told to eat to add fats -

Butter
Milk
Olive or coconut oil (your body needs saturated fats as already mentioned)
Eggs
More nuts
Avocado
Cheese
Yogurt.

As for quantities, depends on the person and their goals.

Chemical Byrne

OK thanks Penny. Sorry for being snarky.

Dtp1979

Penny Tration wrote: »

You've already been told what fats to eat so I don't understand why you're getting snarky with people for having a discussion on fats on a discussion forum.

What you've been told to eat to add fats -

Butter
Milk
Olive or coconut oil (your body needs saturated fats as already mentioned)
Eggs
More nuts
Avocado
Cheese
Yogurt.

As for quantities, depends on the person and their goals.

Some peanut butter too

Penny Tration

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Some peanut butter too

I always forget that because I hate the stuff :pac:

Dtp1979

Penny Tration wrote: »

I always forget that because I hate the stuff :pac:

Fish too

Chemical Byrne

Is frozen fish like bassa and hake any good for fish oils? Or is it just muck?
Reason I ask is that fresh fish would go off on me as I wouldn't use it up day by day and I don't like wasting time going to the shops daily.

A_Sober_Paddy

Chemical Byrne wrote: »

Is frozen fish like bassa and hake any good for fish oils? Or is it just muck?
Reason I ask is that fresh fish would go off on me as I wouldn't use it up day by day and I don't like wasting time going to the shops daily.

Oily fish, like makeral, salmon, sardines, tuna...white fish not so much oil as far as I know

joeprivate

Well my take on what fat to eat or in general what to eat depends on what results you want.If you want feel great while your eating your food by triggering the endorphins in your brain to the maximum feel great factor then head down to mcdonnalds or burger king they have spent years perfecting the combination of fat ,sugars and salt in processed food that give you a meal at a very cheap monetary price or you can get a similar endorphins buzz by buying processed food from the supermarket ,the food manufactures have teams of scientists perfecting the formulas for processed food so as to maximise sales and profit by providing tasty but long term mostly unhealthy foods .However the people who eat these foods even in moderation and exercise regularly are known to die (often suddenly without any warning ) in their prime from the leading killers, Ischaemic heart disease, stroke or more slowly from cancer or diabetes.However there are still small clusters of people around the world that eat mostly plant based food with very little animal products these clusters of people are found to have almost no heart attacks ,strokes or diabetes and a much reduced rates of cancer.Eating this way in the short term may not taste quite as good as processed foods that often have dozens of ingredients combined to give the maximum endorphins rush to the brain and added colour that make the food pleasing to the eye and added preservatives that increases shelf life, but by eating a whole food mostly plant based diet it appears that you can greatly reduce your risk of the leading killer diseases and there are studies that show you can also reverse heart disease by switching to a whole food plant based diet, it can taste good eating this way but some would say not quite as tasty as processed food.So do your own research and decide your risk reward ratio between a great unnatural endorphins rush created by clever food manufacturers and perhaps a longer healthier life with a plant based whole food diet.