planning checks when purchasing

jmayo

Ok if folks could bear with me on this.
First time posting here as have a few questions on planning checks re sales/purchases.

I was looking at a house and from looking at house and plans that I can access on web portal to local council there is a mismatch with outside features.

Now I know there were changes made to original planning given and then there was retention sought which it appears was granted.
But looking at drawing with retention application it doesn't match what is there in reality.
Things like what was labelled sunroom is actually part of house.
e.g has walls rather than glass, window numbers & placement on back and side different, veluxes in back roof but no shown in plans, etc.
Also house was built within last ten years, but no door is wheelchair accessible (all have steps) which someone told me was part of planning reqs since 2000 ?

Also garage was converted for accommodation, but this was never part of any planning.

Now I was told by EA that an engineer has certified that house met planning.
No mention of garage.

I know I need to go to council and request all plans handed in, in case the web is missing something.

And yes I know people might say walk away now, but missus has fallen in love with the bloody place so logic is kinda going out the window.

I guess my questions are:
Does bank valuer look at planning ?
Is it up to purchasers lawyer to look at planning ?
Is it the surveyor who looks at planning ?
Or is it a combination of all of the above ?

Any help on this would be greatly appreciated.

Strolling Bones

jmayo wrote: »

I guess my questions are:

1. Does bank valuer look at planning ?
2. Is it up to purchasers lawyer to look at planning ?
3. Is it the surveyor who looks at planning ?
4. Or is it a combination of all of the above ?

1. From a valuation point of view only. They want to see what they have to sell if you don't pay your mortage. It will not amount to a "signing off" of the house.
2. No. But a responsible purcahsers layer will seek a current Architects Opinion on Compliance with Planning Permsiion from the vendor. This can not sensibly be the purchasers burden. And a docuemnt dated from years ago is no good must be current.
3. As Q 2.
4. As Q 2.

seamus

As above. In your case, substantial changes have been made so it cannot reasonably be beholden onto you to check all of the planning documents and ensure that the changes are both permitted and comply with the granted permission.

By employing a responsible solicitor to go through the documents and other qualified professionals to ensure compliance with the permission, you give yourself some security. In the event that something is missed which you have to spend money to remedy, you can fall back on their professional indemnity insurance to cover your costs.

Gumbo

The council will get all the planning files but it will cost you to get them from the archive. Think it's about €50 per plan number.

You could do with a good arch/tech/engineer that is confortabke with the planning process and able to piece together what was done and when and what potentially is exempt and what may be outstanding from a planning point of view.

Strolling Bones

kceire wrote: »

The council will get all the planning files but it will cost you to get them from the archive. Think it's about €50 per plan number.

You could do with a good arch/tech/engineer that is confortabke with the planning process and able to piece together what was done and when and what potentially is exempt and what may be outstanding from a planning point of view.

No No No.

The vendor must concern himself with all these matters - not the OP.

jmayo

Thanks a lot folks for the info.
Much appreciated.

I know the files are in storage so costs something like €40 to get a planning file.

It is all the plans reqs, not really the matching drawn plans to physical that is throwing me.

I did have a mate who is a surveyor take a quick look.
Now he only had some piecemeal plans from EA that looked like they were once part of planning proposal and he only did a quick once over of the house, but he wasn't impressed.
He isn't able to do full survey, but he said there are a lot of questions that need answering and he found some paperwork like BER Cert a little conerning.
The guy works for major multinational on major projects and knows his stuff so I would take his opinion seriously.

Basically I get the following type of line from the EA and vendor that "ah shure there isn't planning for the likes of garage as accommodation, but shure we aren't selling it as accommodation and if anyone asks you aren't going to be using it as accommodation".

Strolling Bones

jmayo wrote: »

Basically I get the following type of line from the EA and vendor that "ah shure there isn't planning for the likes of garage as accommodation, but shure we aren't selling it as accommodation and if anyone asks you aren't going to be using it as accommodation".

What you buy you sell.

Gumbo

Strolling Bones wrote: »

No No No.

The vendor must concern himself with all these matters - not the OP.

I understand that but the OP said he was more or less buying as is as his other half wants the place. Normally your solicitor will chase up these for you but in some instances you are able to pull up more info than the solicitor does.

Proceed with caution if you haven't bought already as it could cost you more in the long run trying to regularise the situation.

Where is the house located?

Strolling Bones

kceire wrote: »

I understand that but the OP said he was more or less buying as is as his other half wants the place. Normally your solicitor will chase up these for you but in some instances you are able to pull up more info than the solicitor does.

Well I suppose some people spend money fixing up the car before they buy it off the stranger too :rolleyes:

Gumbo

Strolling Bones wrote: »

Well I suppose some people spend money fixing up the car before they buy it off the stranger too :rolleyes:

Maybe. Some people buy a car knowing it needs repair :rolleyes:

But most people will spend money before buying a car on cartell History checks or a mechanics inspection.

Rabbo

Strolling Bones wrote: »

Well I suppose some people spend money fixing up the car before they buy it off the stranger too :rolleyes:

It's about looking for any potential issues, it's not about fixing them. A vendor might provide an opinion of compliance but it mightn't be of much value if the architect/engineer is out of business or if it is heavily qualified or the phase"sunstantial compliance" is used to cover significant changes. A purchaser should employ a suitably experienced professional to look over things as part of normal due diligence.

jmayo

kceire wrote: »

I understand that but the OP said he was more or less buying as is as his other half wants the place. Normally your solicitor will chase up these for you but in some instances you are able to pull up more info than the solicitor does.

Proceed with caution if you haven't bought already as it could cost you more in the long run trying to regularise the situation.

Where is the house located?

As I said the missus has majorily fallen in love with the place.
I think it is a nice house but being a sceptical cynical old coot, I am looking at all the issues and even I can see some questionable things.
If you don't mind I am not going to say where it is because you never know who is hanging around.

kceire wrote: »

Maybe. Some people buy a car knowing it needs repair :rolleyes:

But most people will spend money before buying a car on cartell History checks or a mechanics inspection.

Don't worry we are not going to rush right in without getting professional advice. While the missus may love the place, she agrees that if they find something it has to be off the agenda.

Rabbo wrote: »

It's about looking for any potential issues, it's not about fixing them. A vendor might provide an opinion of compliance but it mightn't be of much value if the architect/engineer is out of business or if it is heavily qualified or the phase"sunstantial compliance" is used to cover significant changes. A purchaser should employ a suitably experienced professional to look over things as part of normal due diligence.

There is no way we would cough up unless it is looked over thoroughly by professionals.
I am too long in the tooth and too cynical to take anyone at their word if they are selling me something worth a lot of money.

jmayo

Rabbo wrote: »

It's about looking for any potential issues, it's not about fixing them. A vendor might provide an opinion of compliance but it mightn't be of much value if the architect/engineer is out of business or if it is heavily qualified or the phase"sunstantial compliance" is used to cover significant changes. A purchaser should employ a suitably experienced professional to look over things as part of normal due diligence.

Ok funny you should have mentioned that phrase (I presume you mean substantial there).

We just got document back from EA which is a "certificate of compliance with planning permission" that was done by a structural engineer for the vendor.

One paragraph reads.

I am of the opinion ... on comparison of the relevant development with the relevant planning documents, the relevant development is in substantial compliance with the permission as granted...

The report mentions substantial compliance again with reference to the retention planning and with reference to meeting building regulations.

Gumbo

jmayo wrote: »

Ok funny you should have mentioned that phrase (I presume you mean substantial there).

We just got document back from EA which is a "certificate of compliance with planning permission" that was done by a structural engineer for the vendor.

One paragraph reads.



The report mentions substantial compliance again with reference to the retention planning and with reference to meeting building regulations.

That's what a lot of certificates will say.
I've seen some reports from the council planning enforcement sections that they say that no enforcement action is warranted because the works are in substantial compliance.