Non-homeless people just begging for the craic.

An Claidheamh

I've always known that many of the people begging in Dublin City centre are not homeless but even have more money than I do!

You have the scangers just coming up and asking for a euro,
the other ones who tourists think are there to help them work the Luas machines,
the scanger kids who go around asking for cigarettes.

Today, I was waiting for a tram, when a mid 30s woman with a kid holding her hand, probably looking around clothes shops, got my attention and then showed me an empty cup with a coin in it. After me she just half heartedly went to a couple of others, and then cool as you like walked into food shop. She wasn't even hardly an aggressive beggar at all. Not even trying.

I was amazed at how well dressed she was. I would have assumed she was a Brazilian or Spanish tourist were it not for the fact she wanted money.

I can't get over how easy it is for both scangers and gypsies, who are of equal or more wealth than the people they ask, to swan around shaking a cup at people.

Who gives them money these days?

Tell me this, would it be better to relieve these people of their cups of change if they harrass you in future.

And before the legal eagles claim I would be put in prison, if there were actually gardai around there would be no begging like this and if they illegally got their cup of change through (illegal) begging, then they cannot get the police to demand it back because it was ill gotten. Right?

Anyone have any experience of people literally just chancing their arm begging?

And should aggressive beggars (not homeless people!) have their cups taken away?

Has anyone ever done it like shopkeepers to stop begging outside their shops?

kneemos

Getting rich begging may be a bit of a myth.
Though during the boom here and in London during the eighties there was stories of beggers changing their clothes and hopping in their cars to drive home.True or not I don't know.

darkpagandeath

I never give money to someone with more expensive shoes/runners on than I have on.

Riesen_Meal

Saw some video on FB there the other day, I won't link here (for obvious reasons) it was some girl confronting some beggar lad in Tallaght who was begging in the Village, she kept saying to him how was his car that she see's him driving, and he lived local to her so why was he begging?

He kept saying he couldn't speak English so she told him she was going to record him every time that she saw him begging, I wonder was it true or was it a mistaken identity type thing....

Pumpkinseeds

We were in Dublin for a gig last month, I haven't been there for years and I hadn't realised the extent of homelessness. I saw an elderly homeless man scavenging in a bin for food and an elderly woman sitting in a door way, as well as a couple of people sleeping rough by the flower stalls. Maybe I'm naive, but I hadn't realised it was that bad, apart from all of the younger people sleeping rough at night and begging during the day.

Kwiecien

Reminds me of a night out a few years ago. Myself and the husband walking home late at night when a young fella approached us.

Chap asked himself "spare fag?" Himself replies "No, I didn't buy any spare ones".

I hate being accosted in the street. Don't get me started on fcukin chuggers!

lickme

its even worse when there crying in the cold on a bridge with a blanket around them. Go get a job.

the groutch

had a guy a few years ago ask me for €2 to buy a coffee, he was wear a suit FFS!

Jesus Wept

the groutch wrote: »

had a guy a few years ago ask me for €2 to buy a coffee, he was wear a suit FFS!

Putting in the effort at least, should have rewarded that imo

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

A homeless/drunk old guy asked me for money earlier and didn't put effort in at all. He just said 'money', and didn't even look up.

I got a "I've already drunk enough today" vibe off him and he was merely going through the motions. I didn't feel he needed any money there and then. No doubt tomorrow morning just before the offie opens he'll need money but he'd defo want to up his game from todays performance. He'd want to start selling just how much he needs this money and adding jazz hands and maybe a smile wouldn't go astray either.

I was less than impressed with him to say the least.

Old Perry

I think the immigrants coming from severe poverty in the east have a very different view of it than us westerners. they are shocked at how much money people here have , how flippant some people can be, and recognise very soon that some people dont value money the same way they might. A euro, 2euro or even 20 euro means very little to some people tbf. so whether they are well off or not they do it because they can, because begging doesnt hold the same stigma where they come from, because it would be silly in their minds to turn down what is essentially money for nothing.

Strumms

Agressive begging is rife in Dublin and i hate it... i always just square off to them and they **** off quick enough with an insult or two muttered under their breath as they walk away.. always junkie scumbags never the hard up genuine types...

The cheekiest of which i encountered in The Oak pub on Dame St a few weeks back.. i had left a fiver and some loose change on the bar as one does and out of the blue this yoke comes out of nowhere.. off his face.. beeny hat and sleeping bag wrapped around him.. big bloke as it happens and right in my face... "give me money for a hostel... i replied very politley in the negative he went to grab the money on the counter.. i stood up between me and the money.. he squared up and uttered a load of abuse into my face " so you **** you wont help me out " ? No i wont accept you harassing me and getting in my face and support your drug habbit now **** off or ill drop you where youn stand... i was shaking after in fairness i was prepared for the situation to become physical and it was quite a suprise for that to happen inside in a licenced premises...

On another note i have a relative working with homless and down on theor luck folk with the Franciscans in Church St.. feeding and clothing them and what not.. they do great work incidently and deserve great support but she tells all sorts of stories and one involved a gang of romanians getting out of a relatively new bmw.. well dressed in looking for handouts.. toilitries.. food .. clothes etc... the ran them but kept coming back gradually more agressive however they have a good relationship with the local guards and they made sure they dissapeared from the center..

Gatling

Fieldog wrote: »

Saw some video on FB there the other day, I won't link here (for obvious reasons) it was some girl confronting some beggar lad in Tallaght who was begging in the Village, she kept saying to him how was his car that she see's him driving, and he lived local to her so why was he begging?

He kept saying he couldn't speak English so she told him she was going to record him every time that she saw him begging, I wonder was it true or was it a mistaken identity type thing....

He's there most days and when it closes he walks to a nearby apartment complex.

An Claidheamh

lickme wrote: »

its even worse when there crying in the cold on a bridge with a blanket around them. Go get a job.

Thing is, we're actually talking about chancers lickme, a la the title and Op.

An Claidheamh

Fieldog wrote: »

Saw some video on FB there the other day, I won't link here (for obvious reasons) it was some girl confronting some beggar lad in Tallaght who was begging in the Village, she kept saying to him how was his car that she see's him driving, and he lived local to her so why was he begging?

He kept saying he couldn't speak English so she told him she was going to record him every time that she saw him begging, I wonder was it true or was it a mistaken identity type thing....

What I wish I did (or will do) is put my hand in my pocket and then take it out and give them the finger.

There's actually a few round the Square Tallaght who sit and beg ... after collecting welfare.

The kerb on your way to the Square from the Luas stop, there's always one.

Again who the hell is still giving these people money?!

Strumms

Does anybody know the story behind the guy outside Fallon & Byrne on Exchequer St ? He is always very polite and you would hear people stop and chat with him and he sounds pretty well spoken and with it.. no obvious signs of substance abuse... he has been there some years however although he cant be more then late 30s but he just looks really ****ing bad and worse every time i pass him.. as would be expected from years living rough i know but.. i dunno just always wondered about him..

John_Rambo

Lots of chancers begging in Dublin, there's also lots of mentally ill people, drug addicts, alcoholics. A lot of the drug users and alcoholics have dreadful mental health issues along with their abuse issues. Some would be second or third generation drug or heavy booze addicts along with a history of child abuse. For a lot of them it's the last resort, some of them are desperate, some of them are very down, some are belligerent and rude. There's a shocking amount of rural older men destroyed by the downturn that are just to far gone with booze and legal drugs to get work. A lot of them were labourers on sites.

I worked on Baggot st. for a while and there was a decent enough looking fella that was hanging around. When I say decent looking, he was as clean as he possibly could be, his clothes were respectable, but aged and falling apart. He was about 55 or so, always made eye contact and give a nervous hello. Turns out he was trying to work up the courage to ask me for money. When he did, he was shockingly embarrassed and very upset. I bought him food and he was incredibly appreciative. I had lunch with him beside the canal and he gave me a short history, but he was very shameful and embarrassed. He was from the midlands, broke up with the family and was living rough and was a chronic alcoholic. I guess he just wanted to get away from me after I gave him something. I'd slyly give him a fiver every now and then and he'd just give me a nod and a few wordless mouths of appreciation.

Last time I saw him he was necking a can of cider with tears streaming down his face, I was on my way home from a work night out. Never forgot that and always wondered where he ended up.

Simon2015

Dublin seems to have more Junkies than other city in Europe.

Panthro

If someone puts a cup with cash in it under your nose, I say we bring in a law that allows us to take a few quid and say thanks.

foggy_lad

All these people are more than adequately catered for by social welfare/mental health/homeless services so I say

GIVE THEM NOTHING!


I know of scumbags that live around Cork St and Meath St who used to go begging for bottles of gas from the St Vincent de Paul, they would then bring the bottles of gas to the local shop and get most of the cost back from the dirty scumbag owner! they used to use that money to buy booze or hash. Give them NOTHING!

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime

Sure most folk might remember the guy with the rabbit and dog that's always begging on henry Street ?

Well he has a house himself in west dublin (possibly ballyfermot) hence why you never see him sleeping rough in town.

Used to work dublin city a lot and still do and you don't see a lot of this "beggers" at night but you do see a few usuals sleeping rough like the couple on nassue Street and the bloke at trailfinders on Dawson street.... these i genuinely feel bad for

endacl

I remember in the 90s, I was a student in the College of Music on Chatham Row. There used to be two lads, late 20s, who'd put in a 5 day week, 9-5. They'd be in Cafe Mocha (remember that? One of dublin's first fancy cafés? Pricey?) for breakfast, lunch and dinner. I'd often see them out for pints around rathmines at the weekend.

mikemac1

Had an English guy approach me outside Connolly Station and tell me a long story of his life to date.

At the end asked for the money to buy a train ticket to Belfast. I don't know the price but I guess its around 25 euro

I'm not alone, he was mentioned in Dublin forum on boards!

John_Rambo

foggy_lad wrote: »

All these people are more than adequately catered for by social welfare/mental health/homeless services so I say

Are you sure about that?

foggy_lad wrote: »

GIVE THEM NOTHING!

Nice sig.

"CHARITY BEGINS AT HOME"

irishlad12345

i usually come across a group of homeless men when i was doing a course in dublin.i know their genuinely homeless because i seen them during no matter what the weather is every Tuesday i would buy the four of them a cup of tea each and a box of tobacco to share between them atleast that way i knew the weren't spending my money on booze or drugs think its a better way to deal with them imo

foggy_lad

John_Rambo wrote: »

Are you sure about that?



Nice sig.

"CHARITY BEGINS AT HOME"

I often drop a brown envelope into the local SVdP office but never give to anyone on the street because you don't know they are genuine or are they out to rob you?

I remember giving that guy that died a tenner on Abbey st one day a few months before he died, just because he looked so close to death and it was so cold. I would always try to help someone that looks so close to death.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJtwW-PBzRc

An Claidheamh

John_Rambo wrote: »

Lots of chancers begging in Dublin, there's also lots of mentally ill people, drug addicts, alcoholics. A lot of the drug users and alcoholics have dreadful mental health issues along with their abuse issues. Some would be second or third generation drug or heavy booze addicts along with a history of child abuse. For a lot of them it's the last resort, some of them are desperate, some of them are very down, some are belligerent and rude. There's a shocking amount of rural older men destroyed by the downturn that are just to far gone with booze and legal drugs to get work. A lot of them were labourers on sites.

I worked on Baggot st. for a while and there was a decent enough looking fella that was hanging around. When I say decent looking, he was as clean as he possibly could be, his clothes were respectable, but aged and falling apart. He was about 55 or so, always made eye contact and give a nervous hello. Turns out he was trying to work up the courage to ask me for money. When he did, he was shockingly embarrassed and very upset. I bought him food and he was incredibly appreciative. I had lunch with him beside the canal and he gave me a short history, but he was very shameful and embarrassed. He was from the midlands, broke up with the family and was living rough and was a chronic alcoholic. I guess he just wanted to get away from me after I gave him something. I'd slyly give him a fiver every now and then and he'd just give me a nod and a few wordless mouths of appreciation.

Last time I saw him he was necking a can of cider with tears streaming down his face, I was on my way home from a work night out. Never forgot that and always wondered where he ended up.

Funny I think around Baggot st and Merrion square there are genuine homeless.

An Claidheamh

Panthro wrote: »

If someone puts a cup with cash in it under your nose, I say we bring in a law that allows us to take a few quid and say thanks.

I don't think we need a law.

Thing is when you're walking on a footpath and you try to avoid a Roma gypsy, and then they make a beeline towards you, as they think you're a soft target, shaking their cup... Surprise them, take it off them and walk off or dump it.

They have no right to it, and there are no gardai.

If everyone did this, problem will soon be solved.

Again I must re-iterate I was shocked by the gall of this women just wanting some extra money off me to shop.

And do understand the difficulties of the real homeless.

(I think a lot of people are fooled by that guy with the rabbit!)

dubscottie

Was there not someone from the Herald or TV3 did something on begging a few years back. Got over €200 in one day IIRC..

It is a massive problem though. Headed into town late on in the afternoon (Sunday) and was only there 30 mins to grab something and every 5 mins someone was looking for something. "change", Spare smoke" etc..

And if you say no god help you.. The abuse..

Always used to laugh at the fact the "big shoe" (big issue) sellers in Edinburgh had £100 pairs of runners and I could not afford them when I was working full time, earning decent money and still living at home.

hytrogen

Try giving a begger the change receipt from your bus journey & expect foul language & a flimsy fist coming your direction...
True story! I thought I was being charitable & didn't have the time to cash in a few shrapnel

shane9689

aaaand this is why i hate dublin and will never live there

cloud493

dubscottie wrote: »

Was there not someone from the Herald or TV3 did something on begging a few years back. Got over €200 in one day IIRC..

It is a massive problem though. Headed into town late on in the afternoon (Sunday) and was only there 30 mins to grab something and every 5 mins someone was looking for something. "change", Spare smoke" etc..

And if you say no god help you.. The abuse..

Always used to laugh at the fact the "big shoe" (big issue) sellers in Edinburgh had £100 pairs of runners and I could not afford them when I was working full time, earning decent money and still living at home.

Your man on tv3 did a program on romanian beggars in dublin I think.

KingBrian2

John_Rambo wrote: »

Lots of chancers begging in Dublin, there's also lots of mentally ill people, drug addicts, alcoholics. A lot of the drug users and alcoholics have dreadful mental health issues along with their abuse issues. Some would be second or third generation drug or heavy booze addicts along with a history of child abuse. For a lot of them it's the last resort, some of them are desperate, some of them are very down, some are belligerent and rude. There's a shocking amount of rural older men destroyed by the downturn that are just to far gone with booze and legal drugs to get work. A lot of them were labourers on sites.

I worked on Baggot st. for a while and there was a decent enough looking fella that was hanging around. When I say decent looking, he was as clean as he possibly could be, his clothes were respectable, but aged and falling apart. He was about 55 or so, always made eye contact and give a nervous hello. Turns out he was trying to work up the courage to ask me for money. When he did, he was shockingly embarrassed and very upset. I bought him food and he was incredibly appreciative. I had lunch with him beside the canal and he gave me a short history, but he was very shameful and embarrassed. He was from the midlands, broke up with the family and was living rough and was a chronic alcoholic. I guess he just wanted to get away from me after I gave him something. I'd slyly give him a fiver every now and then and he'd just give me a nod and a few wordless mouths of appreciation.

Last time I saw him he was necking a can of cider with tears streaming down his face, I was on my way home from a work night out. Never forgot that and always wondered where he ended up.

You should not enable him, he needs some treatment. A better idea would have ben to recommend that he check himself into a local clinic or join Alcohol Anonymous to meet other people in the same situation.

An Claidheamh

dubscottie wrote: »

And if you say no god help you.. The abuse..

This is why in reality it is intimidation for a lot if not most people.

The zombies leaning over you at Luas machines deserve a smack in particular.

dubscottie

An Claidheamh wrote: »

This is why in reality it is intimidation for a lot if not most people.

The zombies leaning over you at Luas machines deserve a smack in particular.

On the bus home I spotted a potential scam at a ATM from the bus.. But for another thread..

Nodster

shane9689 wrote: »

aaaand this is why i hate dublin and will never live there

I've news for you buddy, I've seen homeless in every City and every large town across Ireland

The Corinthian

People regularly tip for bad service too. Or give money to beggars they know are just on the grift. A fool and his money are easily parted at the end of the day.

An old friend on mine, upon my questioning his giving money to a junky-beggar, gave me another perspective, however. If enough give to such people, they'll have enough for their fix. If they can get enough for their fix through begging, they won't need to resort to mugging anyone. So he saw it as, and called it, a form of protection money.

LDN_Irish

mikemac1 wrote: »

Had an English guy approach me outside Connolly Station and tell me a long story of his life to date.

At the end asked for the money to buy a train ticket to Belfast. I don't know the price but I guess its around 25 euro

I'm not alone, he was mentioned in Dublin forum on boards!

That's mad, when I was in Belfast I bumped in to a homeless guy from Essex who told me he had to get out of Dublin after falling out with a "knacker" and he'd just caught the train up that day. Around 2 and a half/3 years ago.

Buzz Meeks

I remember standing in Dundalk a few years ago when the belfast train went by. Just caught my eye a distinctly english looking chap sitting in the train.

KingBrian2

KingBrian2 wrote: »

You should not enable him, he needs some treatment. A better idea would have ben to recommend that he check himself into a local clinic or join Alcohol Anonymous to meet other people in the same situation.

Check himself into a local clinic? There are about 130 detox beds in all of Ireland, a quarter of which are solely for heroin users. I would estimate there to be around 80 beds available nationwide for people in that man's position, and even they may not all be operational due to cutbacks.

Also, as someone who has worked with homeless services in the past, I can assure you that it isn't as simple as going from the position of drinking cider in the gutter, to a residential detox bed on a farm down the country.

The sad reality is that the people who are least capable of pulling themselves out of addiction are expected to do all of the heavy lifting before a detox bed will even be given to them. In the case of homeless service users, a residential unit might insist they have to be coming off their addiction in a substance-free hostel before they can be considered, for example.

It isn't a case of walking into a clinic and saying "I need help". The help just isn't there, or else it's inaccessible to homeless people.

As for the AA, it's all very well attending an AA meeting at 7pm, then walking out to a life on the streets. Perhaps in your head you don't understand why such dismal prospect would make recovery next to impossible for homeless people. How lucky you and I are to know that no matter how bad things get in our lives, there is always a warm bed and a friend or a family member to help us. Homeless people are on their own in every way.

cbyrd

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote:

As for the AA, it's all very well attending an AA meeting at 7pm, then walking out to a life on the streets. Perhaps in your head you don't understand why such dismal prospect would make recovery next to impossible for homeless people. How lucky you and I are to know that no matter how bad things get in our lives, there is always a warm bed and a friend or a family member to help us. Homeless people are on their own in every way.

This was one of the reasons I liked the High Hopes Choir programme on Rte, gave a few homeless people something to believe in.

Reoil

lickme wrote: »

its even worse when there crying in the cold on a bridge with a blanket around them. Go get a job.

Go back to school...

Jesus Wept

I don't think constantly squaring up to every junkie is necessary, just makes a situation when typically they skulk off if ignored/discouraged with a 'no', or 'sorry' or 'I can't'.

Old Perry wrote: »

I think the immigrants coming from severe poverty in the east have a very different view of it than us westerners. they are shocked at how much money people here have , how flippant some people can be, and recognise very soon that some people dont value money the same way they might. A euro, 2euro or even 20 euro means very little to some people tbf. so whether they are well off or not they do it because they can, because begging doesnt hold the same stigma where they come from, because it would be silly in their minds to turn down what is essentially money for nothing.

The worst I've seen was a couple of guys at 3am, both holding a tiny puppy each. It was the middle of December, the dogs were shaking like leafs from the cold and elements. They'd approach people or people would approach them (they had puppies, it's 3am in the city center), then insist on money to pet the puppy.
It was so cynical.

Given the chance (without hassle), I'd have taken the dogs.

TheLastMohican

http://www.mypersonalfinancejourney.com/2013/10/income-beggars-street-performers.html

US figures, but could apply to London/Dublin

TheLastMohican

An Claidheamh wrote: »

This is why in reality it is intimidation for a lot if not most people.

The zombies leaning over you at Luas machines deserve smack in particular.

There. fyp

KingBrian2

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

The sad reality is that the people who are least capable of pulling themselves out of addiction are expected to do all of the heavy lifting before a detox bed will even be given to them. In the case of homeless service users, a residential unit might insist they have to be coming off their addiction in a substance-free hostel before they can be considered, for example.

They should not being doing it alone, without a family or a friend it will be very difficult for them to get through. A loving relationship can improve their lives and may them give up an addiction.

Muckracker

This is why I never give money to anyone.

No matter what I always think of the indignity involved in begging on a regular basis, I don't like giving to junky beggar's but I have no hard and fast rule on it, however I would be more likely to buy them a coffer in winter. I get approached al lot in town. Money for a hostel, money for the bus etc.

My husband gives small amounts of money to a bagger near his work because he is a firm believer in ..their but for the grace of god go I.

An Claidheamh

mariaalice wrote: »

No matter what I always think of the indignity involved in begging on a regular basis, I don't like giving to junky beggar's but I have no hard and fast rule on it, however I would be more likely to buy them a coffer in winter. I get approached al lot in town. Money for a hostel, money for the bus etc.

My husband gives small amounts of money to a bagger near his work because he is a firm believer in ..their but for the grace of god go I.

I think or like to think that people if a beggar almost looks like an old fashioned one - scruffy beard, sleeping rough, etc, people genuinely don't wish them harm and bring them food or whatever.

But there are professional, both gypsy and Irish, who do actually do non aggressive begging, and then go home in the evening.

The bridge at Heuston station is one example.

cassid

My sister used to work in Bewleys on Grafton street about 20 years ago and they had 2 regular beggars who worked full days. The staff would exchange the coppers for notes, the older one got the staff to call a taxi for her to head home each day of begging. There was often a few incidents with new beggars trying to take her place as it was a gold mine.

I have been doing voluntary work for the last 5 years, there is a lot of hidden poverty in Ireland. I have recieved phone calls from public health nurses or social workers asking if we could help specific families. Was in one home with a new baby on oxygen and the presses were empty and there was 3 other children there. Family need a fridge to store medication and it broke and no one would help them not st vincent, welfare officer, thankfully we were able to wiggle a deal from a store. Families unable to travel to see their baby in Temple Street etc as they did not have the money to travel from cork etc.

An illness, disability, sick baby can change everything in your life very quickly.

John_Rambo

foggy_lad wrote: »

never give to anyone on the street because you don't know they are genuine or are they out to rob you?

foggy_lad wrote: »

I remember giving that guy that died a tenner on Abbey st one day a few months before he died, just because he looked so close to death and it was so cold. I would always try to help someone that looks so close to death

? Right.

KingBrian2 wrote: »

You should not enable him, he needs some treatment. A better idea would have ben to recommend that he check himself into a local clinic or join Alcohol Anonymous to meet other people in the same situation.

Enable! Thanks, but the guy was desperate and embarrassed. I gave him food and cash, if I felt he was in the mood for life coaching I'd have tried it, but I'm a good judge of character.

shane9689 wrote: »

aaaand this is why i hate dublin and will never live there

Aaaaand you probably will end up eating those words. You most likely will live in Dublin if you become destitute and homeless.