ISIL sends video message to Hamas threatening over their disapproval of Salafists

ElvisChrist6

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/07/isil-warns-hamas-video-message-150701042302630.html

The Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL) group has threatened the Palestinian armed group Hamas, vowing to end the faction's rule in the territory.
In a 16-minute long video shared by social media accounts sympathetic to ISIL on Wednesday, fighters based in Syria's Aleppo province condemned Hamas for its crackdown on Salafist groups in the Gaza Strip, and its failure to implement a rigid enough interpretation of Islamic law.


"The point of jihad is not to liberate land ... but jihad as defined by God, is fighting for and implementing the law of God," said one masked fighter, who further condemned Hamas for its dealings with Iran and Lebanese Shia movement Hezbollah, as well as "nationalist", "secularist", and "communist" factions.


"They raise their children to respect this (Palestinian) flag," the fighter said, telling Palestinians that Hamas could not secure their freedom.

I think even the most militant zionist can respect Hamas for their crackdown on the likes of ISIL etc. ISIL are turning on their own people (not for the first time); that is the ones who struggle the most.

wes

Hamas have always been a Nationalist organization mixed with Religion, and ISIL pretty much hates everyone, including any other Islamist organizations.

fleet_admiral

What annoys me about them is they cant choose what their name is. Is it IS, ISIL, or ISIS
Come on lads, get your terrorist fingers out

Magico Gonzalez

I imagine their objective is to draw Israel into the whole mess which would be no good for anyone.

Pfffft, when terrorists fall out...

Hamas have had a long history of turning on their own people, shooting them, sending their kids down digging tunnels, forcing them to remain in buildings despite warnings of incoming fire, throwing them off rooftops, dragging them behind cars, tolerating honour killings and so on and on and on.

I wouldn't give any Islamic terrorists praise just because they don't burn people in cages like ISIS.

Nodin

fleet_admiral wrote: »

What annoys me about them is they cant choose what their name is. Is it IS, ISIL, or ISIS
Come on lads, get your terrorist fingers out

Persecuting people for following the wrong Islam leaves little time for a brainstorming session to bring the matter to a conclusion.

Not a NSA agent

I wonder if those idiots who expect a written apology from every muslim any time a muslim litters assume hamas support this until they say something condemning IS.

Not a NSA agent

Not a NSA agent wrote: »

I wonder if those idiots who expect a written apology from every muslim any time a muslim litters assume hamas support this until they say something condemning IS.

Who wants a written apology from every Muslim?

SEPT 23 1989

Magico Gonzalez wrote: »

I imagine their objective is to draw Israel into the whole mess which would be no good for anyone.

IDF v ISIL would be quite a battle

Nodin

Deleted User wrote: »

Who wants a written apology from every Muslim?

All muslims are expected to condemn anything any other muslim or muslims do. Usually a statement (written) is expected be it via the internet or elsewhere. Failure to do so means they silently condone whatever outrage they haven't condemned, while doing so means that yes, they are all the one.

NachoBusiness

Can't stand Hamas. Well, chick peas in general.

Nodin

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

IDF v ISIL would be quite a battle

Can't imagine so. Taking on a properly motivated and equipped army is a bit different to what they've been up against elsewhere.

Saipanne

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

IDF v ISIL would be quite a battle

And very one sided. Israel are a force to be reckoned with and have defended their land even when multiple Arab armies attempted to break them.

Not forgetting their American weaponry and nukes.

Micky Dolenz

It's only a matter of time before Israel are forced into action. Every bordering region has a lot of IS action going on.

ElvisChrist6

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

It's only a matter of time before Israel are forced into action. Every bordering region has a lot of IS action going on.

As hard as it is for me to support Israeli action, that'd be one thing I'd love to see happen.

Magico Gonzalez

Saipanne wrote: »

And very one sided. Israel are a force to be reckoned with and have defended their land even when multiple Arab armies attempted to break them.

Not forgetting their American weaponry and nukes.

They'd move them out of Palestine quickly enough, but they'd simply retreat and return. IS aren't really interested in Palestinian borders, they have a more general goal. It'd be a long fight and would probably involve IDF incursions in Syria and maybe further afield. That's when the trouble would really start.

How far would they chase them? I´ve never heard the Israeli perspective on IS. Right now they seem to be able to ignore it, but one wonders for how long?

OneOfThem

Could someone be so kind as to explain to me why any nation that opposes ISIL doesn't just send in a couple of squadrons of fighter bombers and wipe them off the face of the earth? A couple dozen Su-24s or F-18's or what have you should make short work of things surely?

Is this a stupid question?

Micky Dolenz

OneOfThem wrote: »

Could someone be so kind as to explain to me why any nation that opposes ISIL doesn't just send in a couple of squadrons of fighter bombers and wipe them off the face of the earth? A couple dozen Su-24s or F-18's or what have you should make short work of things surely?

Is this a stupid question?

Many countries have been doing this for the last few months. Air attack will only go so far. Troops on the ground are needed to gain and maintain control. No one seems to have te appetite for a long and expensive ground war.

OneOfThem

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Many countries have been doing this for the last few months. Air attack will only go so far. Troops on the ground are needed to gain and maintain control. No one seems to have te appetite for a long and expensive ground war.

I see. Why do they only get you so far though? Surely dead is dead? Do they respawn after a certain amount of time?

Magico Gonzalez

OneOfThem wrote: »

Could someone be so kind as to explain to me why any nation that opposes ISIL doesn't just send in a couple of squadrons of fighter bombers and wipe them off the face of the earth? A couple dozen Su-24s or F-18's or what have you should make short work of things surely?

Is this a stupid question?

Bombing from the air might work against encamped armies but it's tricky with a guerilla force like ISIS. The casualties in the captive populations would be tremendous and would probably only serve to strengthen their local support.

A trained local Army needs to win a ground campaign, Syria have failed. Iran and Israel if provoked might fair better. Iraq is false construct, the army even moreso, they haven't the stomach for the fight.

Magico Gonzalez

OneOfThem wrote: »

I see. Why do they only get you so far though? Surely dead is dead? Do they respawn after a certain amount of time?

Effectively yes, you kill the people who are located where small groups of IS fighters are and you recruit their family, youtube video watchers, neighbours etc.

In all likelihood these Salafists are from a variety of countries and they continue to pour into the region. They aren't encamped in large bases and don't have an airforce to attack.

Their primitive nature makes them harder to target and easier to confuse with innocents.

OneOfThem

Magico Gonzalez wrote: »

Bombing from the air might work against encamped armies but it's tricky with a guerilla force like ISIS. The casualties in the captive populations would be tremendous and would probably only serve to strengthen their local support.

A trained local Army needs to win a ground campaign, Syria have failed. Iran and Israel if provoked might fair better. Iraq is false construct, the army even moreso, they haven't the stomach for the fight.

Ah right. They live amongst the non ISIL people in towns and things? That makes sense. And should have been obvious I guess. I don't brain so good sometimes.

Magico Gonzalez

OneOfThem wrote: »

Ah right. They live amongst the non ISIL people in towns and things? That makes sense. And should have been obvious I guess. I don't brain so good sometimes.

I'm only speculating, but that's my take on it. Otherwise they'd be long gone.

Micky Dolenz

OneOfThem wrote: »

I see. Why do they only get you so far though? Surely dead is dead? Do they respawn after a certain amount of time?

There are many of them and while air strikes may be useful to take out resource buildings and the like, I assume they must not have high personal counts.

The other problem is, IS are spread over many different regions, foreign forces couldn't possibly occupy them all with out great expense and causing fraction with neighbouring regions.

I just wish the media would stop reporting on ISIS propaganda material. They're all just furthering this group of monster's cause.

Micky Dolenz

Magico Gonzalez wrote: »

I'm only speculating, but that's my take on it. Otherwise they'd be long gone.

And IS is an ideology. Hard to fight that. Whole cities and towns may buy into the ideology but most would be passive (civil population) with a few (thousands) that fight.

xxyyzz

ElvisChrist6 wrote: »

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/07/isil-warns-hamas-video-message-150701042302630.html



I think even the most militant zionist can respect Hamas for their crackdown on the likes of ISIL etc. ISIL are turning on their own people (not for the first time); that is the ones who struggle the most.

That God fellah is an awful bollo*ks

Harry Palmr

Deleted User wrote: »

I just wish the media would stop reporting on ISIS propaganda material. They're all just furthering this group of monster's cause.

THIS THIS THIS

Every ****ing time someone from ISIL/ISIS/IS/whateverthefvck farts its accompanied by clips of propaganda. I'm not saying ignore them but play them down as much as possible - do it like the news programmes had to 30-40 years ago - a fuzzy still image over the newsreaders shoulder in a 30 second item and then move on.

ElvisChrist6

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

And IS is an ideology. Hard to fight that. Whole cities and towns may buy into the ideology but most would be passive (civil population) with a few (thousands) that fight.

That's one important point. As well as some martyrdom that comes with it, more will join in along with the new recruitees becoming part of it all the time.

entropi

OneOfThem wrote: »

Ah right. They live amongst the non ISIL people in towns and things? That makes sense. And should have been obvious I guess. I don't brain so good sometimes.

Guerilla warfare. Live and fight amongst the resident population. Have some buildings as safehouses but never stay in the one building too long etc. They have a more nomadic way of movement, recruitment (seize town/city, make them submit and move on, while leaving behind a small amount of enforcers) and attack strategy. If you can't find them holed up in specific areas, its harder to find them and eradicate them.

Harry Palmr wrote: »

THIS THIS THIS

Every ****ing time someone from ISIL/ISIS/IS/whateverthefvck farts its accompanied by clips of propaganda. I'm not saying ignore them but play them down as much as possible - do it like the news programmes had to 30-40 years ago - a fuzzy still image over the newsreaders shoulder in a 30 second item and then move on.

But Fox and Sky News would have nothing left to report on if this happened :pac:


If a sizeable incursion occurred in either/or Israel and Iran, there would be a significant response from either side. Iran has a large ground force with over a million reservists and half million or so active personnel (irrespective of their ageing land and air power, they could still put up a good fight). Israel themselves have almost cutting edge equipment, training and firepower, with a sizeable ground force.

If anything, it would make for one hell of a fireworks show.

OneOfThem

Hmm. Israel would seem to be in a position to gain a lot by going in all guns blazing? They have international PR issues pretty much globally. Imagine if they took down ISIL? That'd be quite a shot in the arm to their reputation? Hamas would be somewhat in their debt. Which would be nice. Might earn them quite a lot of goodwill from the occupied territories? Get to be seen somewhat as liberators of Muslim nations? And they'd be taking out a new and ever more capable looking enemy, that they may end having to deal with at a future date anyway.

Looks like it'd be a win all round for them?

Have ISIL released any official Israel themed statements, out of interest?

Nodin

Nodin wrote: »

All muslims are expected to condemn anything any other muslim or muslims do. Usually a statement (written) is expected be it via the internet or elsewhere. Failure to do so means they silently condone whatever outrage they haven't condemned, while doing so means that yes, they are all the one.

Strange point. Not sure who expects this, could you be specific and identify the people you are referring to?

In the meantime, they are not all the one. They are different. Yes they are a Muslims, and yes they are terrorists, and yes they have no value in human life, civil liberties and so on. But they are different. ISIS don't do dragging behind cars, Hamas don't roast prisoners. They share a fondness for depravity and a lack of morality.

Nodin

Deleted User wrote: »

Strange point. Not sure who expects this, could you be specific and identify the people you are referring to?

..............

Don't be obtuse.

Nodin

Nodin wrote: »

Don't be obtuse.

Pointing out nonsense is not being obtuse.

No one has ever suggested that all Muslims should apologise for those amongst them who are terrorists, Hamas, ISIS, the Islamic Jihad Movement etc.

Nodin

Deleted User wrote: »

Pointing out nonsense is not being obtuse.

No one has ever suggested that all Muslims should apologise for those amongst them who are terrorists, Hamas, ISIS, the Islamic Jihad Movement etc.

From one thread alone - as I said, don't be obtuse.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=96036266&postcount=280

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=96020159&postcount=71

DeadHand

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

IDF v ISIL would be quite a battle

Not really.

It'd be over in a few hours and result in mountains of dead Islamists.

Anyway, hopefully ISIS and Hamas start killing each other. Two repugnant, facist organisations.

ISIS would invade Isreal in a heartbeat were it not for the power of the IDF. They'd see it as home to a few too many independent women, open homosexuals and democrats who could do with having the joys of Islam imposed upon them.

Nodin

Nodin wrote: »

From one thread alone - as I said, don't be obtuse.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=96036266&postcount=280

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=96020159&postcount=71

Ah, 2 posters on some other thread on an anonymous forum on the www!

Good find though!

BlaasForRafa

OneOfThem wrote: »

Hmm. Israel would seem to be in a position to gain a lot by going in all guns blazing? They have international PR issues pretty much globally. Imagine if they took down ISIL? That'd be quite a shot in the arm to their reputation? Hamas would be somewhat in their debt. Which would be nice. Might earn them quite a lot of goodwill from the occupied territories? Get to be seen somewhat as liberators of Muslim nations? And they'd be taking out a new and ever more capable looking enemy, that they may end having to deal with at a future date anyway.

Israel would crush Daesh easily, it's the one army in situ in the area that could demolish them (the turks probably could too but the turks fear the kurds more than they fear Daesh).

However I think you're under a misapprehension if you think the arabs or persians would thank Israel for doing so. The thing is, the arabs don't particularly hate Israel for what is happening to the palestinians (arabs have treated palestinians badly too), they hate Israel because it is Israel and because it exists. They hate it because it is a non-muslim country in a muslim region, it is much more of an existential hatred rather than a rational anger.

Israel would need the agreement of Syria, Iran and Iraq at the very least in order to operate on Syrian territory but Israel is still technically at war with Syria, there has been an armistice in place since the Yom Kippur war but that's merely a cessation of hostilities, it isn't a peace agreement. Also neither Iran or Iraq recognise Israel or have diplomatic relations with it.

If Israel unilaterally acted against Daesh with ground forces then the likely result would be for arab and persians to unite with Daesh against Israel. In order for Israel to act it would need an absolutely unprecedented diplomatic turnaround from the arab nations and Iran towards Israel, a recognition of Israels right to exist and a peace agreement with Syria. That just seems so unlikely.

Nodin

Deleted User wrote: »

Ah, 2 posters on some other thread on an anonymous forum on the www!

Good find though!

I'm sorry, where we talking about Dail Eireann?

uck51js9zml2yt

All the middle east needs is for Israel to attach ISIS. Next thing we'd see is all these Muslim countries turning on Israel for killing their "brothers".

If anyone thinks Israel would be lauded as the saviours I can recommend a shrink.

DeadHand

Noa Blue Earring wrote: »

All the middle east needs is for Israel to attach ISIS.

Attach them to what?

Magico Gonzalez

OneOfThem wrote: »

Hmm. Israel would seem to be in a position to gain a lot by going in all guns blazing? They have international PR issues pretty much globally. Imagine if they took down ISIL? That'd be quite a shot in the arm to their reputation? Hamas would be somewhat in their debt. Which would be nice. Might earn them quite a lot of goodwill from the occupied territories? Get to be seen somewhat as liberators of Muslim nations? And they'd be taking out a new and ever more capable looking enemy, that they may end having to deal with at a future date anyway.

Looks like it'd be a win all round for them?

Have ISIL released any official Israel themed statements, out of interest?

In as much as anyone can do an "official" statement for that rabble of human dirt, I read some stuff earlier today after wondering the same. Haaretz and a few other sources had reference to threats made, overthrow of palestine and destruction of Israel.

The usual stuff.

What might happen is the IDF will be presented with a perfect opportunity to level Palestine, the residents are those who will suffer again of course.

Eugene Norman

so a few years on. The invasion of Iraq. Good or bad idea?

Ranchu

Eugene Norman wrote: »

so a few years on. The invasion of Iraq. Good or bad idea?

Everyone involved in that decision should be handed over and see if they'll take that as a truce.

BlaasForRafa

Eugene Norman wrote: »

so a few years on. The invasion of Iraq. Good or bad idea?

I think the answer to that is pretty obvious.

Eugene Norman

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

I think the answer to that is pretty obvious.

It was rhetorical. Still I like the idea of handing over the neo cons to the Daesh.

Magico Gonzalez

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

I think the answer to that is pretty obvious.

You would hope so, but there are those who seem to think it was necessary.

Aimead

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

And IS is an ideology. Hard to fight that. Whole cities and towns may buy into the ideology but most would be passive (civil population) with a few (thousands) that fight.

I think this point needs expanding a little. When people see the word ‘ideology’ it gives them certain connotations, some appropriate to here and some not. It is important to realise that the IS ideology isn’t just some form of radicalised Islam, it also includes strong anti-Western and nationalist (I don’t have a better word and ‘regionalist’ just seems silly) sentiments.

For IS adherents the fight to rid their region of the invading Westerners is central to their faith. I would argue that this aspect of the ideology is the biggest allure for IS recruits. To attempt a dodgy parallel, you could describe the rebellions in Ireland as being founded on a type of Catholic ideology, and there would be some truth to it – but that came secondarily to the desire to drive back a foreign invader.

This is what makes IS a difficult enemy to defeat through conventional warfare. You bomb a location and the relatives of the victims (which would likely include innocents) have reason to sign up to IS. Much of the region’s population already have a distrust, if not an outright hatred, for ‘the West’. To put it bluntly, from WW1 to the present day ‘the West’ has given the population plenty of reason to harbour hatreds, and those hatreds are being tapped into by IS’s ideology.

keithclancy

fleet_admiral wrote: »

What annoys me about them is they cant choose what their name is. Is it IS, ISIL, or ISIS
Come on lads, get your terrorist fingers out

You mean like:
The IRA
The REAL IRA
The Continuity IRA
The Provisional IRA

That's not confusing at all.