Where have all the historic bikes gone.

Crank Stain

Hi all,
Can anyone recommend a local shop that stocks Bianchi, Wilier, Ridley etc., any european make with a bit of history.

All the shops I have visited stock the same bikes, trek, specilaized, cube, cannondale, giant, fuji, merida etc., All are grand, and probably fine, but I’m looking for something with a bit of soul.

I am a leasure cyclist looking to upgrade from my 15 year old Orbea with a sora groupset to something with Tiagra or 105 max budget is €1500.

To give you an idea of what I have been looking at, I narrowed my search to these 3, but I am not excited by any of them.
Cube Peloton Race Shimano 105 €999.00
Orbea Avant H40 Shimano Tiagra €999.00
Planet X RT-58 Sram Rival €1087.49
Can’t post links.

I want to buy with a local shop so I have excluded Vitus, Boardman and b-twin etc.,
Its not really a brand I am looking for, just something european and a bit more independent than the multinational brands from the US and Far East.

Cheers.

OldBean

Have a look at Genesis. Hollingsworth stock them.

magicbastarder

Crank Stain wrote: »

Hi all,
Can anyone recommend a local shop that stocks Bianchi, Wilier, Ridley etc., any european make with a bit of history.

just re ridley - most of the other bike brands you listed are far older than ridley.

xebec

Cycle Surgery in Dundrum stock Wilier afaik.

L'Enfer du Nord

Harry's Bikes in Clonskeagh stock Bianchi.

Donnybrook bikes stock Puegot.

dragratchet

L'Enfer du Nord wrote: »

Harry's Bikes in Clonskeagh stock Bianchi.

Donnybrook bikes stock Puegot.

Harrys also do colnago and pinarello

Brian?

Most of these European brands have their manufacturing in the Far East. As much as I love carbon fibre bikes, I really don't think they can have "soul". Actually I don't think any bike can have "soul", just good marketing.

dragratchet

you need to pay upwards of 3.5k for soul to be included in your frame (actually made in italy)

cython

Seeing as you don't mention your location, Halfords sell Pinarello, and are all over the country: http://www.halfords.ie/cycling/bikes/road-bikes?brand=Pinarello&initMin=190&initMax=1180

Limited options within your budget though, and you might want to find somewhere else to assemble it and just take the bike in the box, depending on the store......

dragratchet

yup. as i learned myself you pay a premium to have a euro-badge like the above mentioned brands.. compared to giant (who manufacture a lot of colnagos) trek, spesh etc, the euro brands are produced in much smaller numbers so they don't have the same economy of scale. for 1500 quid you may be limited to the alloy bikes in their range.

eeeee

Brian? wrote: »

As much as I love carbon fibre bikes, I really don't think they can have "soul". Actually I don't think any bike can have "soul", just good marketing.

:eek: :eek: now you take that back - all bikes have souls! :P

tonytiger81

Think base2race in ballymount do Bianchi and DeRosa. Check their website?

LCD

The Bike Station in Dundalk stock Bianchi

CramCycle

Bianchi

Made in Taiwan

Wilier,

Made in Asia

Ridley etc., any european make with a bit of history

Only started in 1997, so most of us are far older than the company.

Now most will be designed elsewhere but doubtfully with any more love or care than any of the other companies you mention


Whereas

Orbea Avant H40 Shimano Tiagra €999.00

175 years of manufacturing history with production in Spain, Portugal and China

http://www.bike-advisor.com/bicycle-guides/where-has-my-bicycle-been-made.html

magicbastarder

Brian? wrote: »

Most of these European brands have their manufacturing in the Far East. As much as I love carbon fibre bikes, I really don't think they can have "soul". Actually I don't think any bike can have "soul", just good marketing.

exactly; the OP basically amounts to an 'i want a bike which is functionally identical to a specialized, but with a different logo on the tube'.
nothing wrong with a bit of brand loyalty, but it's bugger all to do with soul.

Lumen

magicbastarder wrote: »

exactly; the OP basically amounts to an 'i want a bike which is functionally identical to a specialized, but with a different logo on the tube'.
nothing wrong with a bit of brand loyalty, but it's bugger all to do with soul.

Since there is no rational definition of soul I can't see how you can make a rational argument against it.

I can totally appreciate someone not wanting a Specialized, with or without sticker. They're revolting.

L'Enfer du Nord

Lumen wrote: »

Since there is no rational definition of soul I can't see how you can make a rational argument against it.

I can totally appreciate someone not wanting a Specialized, with or without sticker. They're revolting.

Bought a pair of specialized gloves recently by mistake, was in a hurry etc. and need them to go mtbing so may have bought them anyway. The Specialized name and brand weren't prominent. I wonder if this deliberate because the brand took such a bashing when they sued that war vet in Canada.

magicbastarder

L'Enfer du Nord wrote: »

they sued that war vet in Canada.

link?

CramCycle

magicbastarder wrote: »

link?

http://calgaryherald.com/news/local-news/war-veteran-forced-to-change-bike-shops-name-after-threat-from-u-s-bike-giant-specialized

L'Enfer du Nord

magicbastarder wrote: »

link?

correction threatened legal action. My point is about the damage to the brand which is undeniable.

http://road.cc/content/news/100388-specialized-slammed-over-legal-threat-against-canadian-bike-shop-using-roubaix

DaithiMC

CramCycle wrote: »

Made in Taiwan
Made in Asia
Only started in 1997, so most of us are far older than the company.

Now most will be designed elsewhere but doubtfully with any more love or care than any of the other companies you mention


Whereas

175 years of manufacturing history with production in Spain, Portugal and China

http://www.bike-advisor.com/bicycle-guides/where-has-my-bicycle-been-made.html

I don't think its unreasonable to suggest that design is very different from company to company and there are companies that emphasise form over function so I would argue there are companies that do it with more love than others. The Italians prided themselves on this to the point that they compromise quality in some instances, but in their high end products I don't think it is reasonable to argue that they are "the same" no matter where they are designed. Each to their own but I prefer a good balance of form and function, which is why some brands' designs are off the table for me.

Crank Stain

Thanks for the suggestions, I will check them out.

I am looking for an alloy frame and preferably an entry level bike from an established brand, so I can justify the expense to myself.

Its not about logos, for example, I never saw a specialized I would like to own, whereas I would love Cunego's wilier from 2011/12, but I'd settle for an entry level wilier as I cant afford to spend €10k on his bike.

dragratchet

you can get a colnago strada sl with tiagra online for less than a grand (E905 on wiggle), and im sure harrys could get one in for you.. 500 quid left over to upgrade the wheels, which you will want to do...

http://colnago.com/strada-sl-2-2/?lang=am

Lumen

Crank Stain wrote: »

Its not about logos, for example, I never saw a specialized I would like to own, whereas I would love Cunego's wilier from 2011/12, but I'd settle for an entry level wilier as I cant afford to spend €10k on his bike.

The idea of what consitutes "historic" interests me.

The other day I got a bit nostalgic when I saw someone riding a red Saeco Cannondale wearing "Legalize my Cannondale" shorts. That was from only 2004 ish!

And then there were the stripey outfits...

happytramp

Despite it's outsourcing Wilier are still flippin lovely looking bikes. Also Campagnolo components are still made in the originsl factory in Italy so get some of that gear if you care about the 'soul' aspect.

carmo13

I just got my hands on a 57cm vitus duralinux frame. i,m not sure what
to do with it. had a mis-match of components so i took them all off today and cleaned it up. looks nice. if its something retro you're looking for this might suit you.

ThisRegard

I got my Ridley from Cycle Superstore a few years ago.

wanderer 22

Ritte bikes are beautiful imo; but lose points for being so self-consciously cool :cool:

PringleDemon

happytramp wrote: »

Despite it's outsourcing Wilier are still flippin lovely looking bikes. Also Campagnolo components are still made in the originsl factory in Italy so get some of that gear if you care about the 'soul' aspect.

It's a well known fact that much of Campag is now outsourced to Romania . Not much soul about that brand now.

pelevin

Don't Romanians have souls?

CramCycle

DaithiMC wrote: »

I don't think its unreasonable to suggest that design is very different from company to company and there are companies that emphasise form over function so I would argue there are companies that do it with more love than others. The Italians prided themselves on this to the point that they compromise quality in some instances, but in their high end products I don't think it is reasonable to argue that they are "the same" no matter where they are designed. Each to their own but I prefer a good balance of form and function, which is why some brands' designs are off the table for me.

I didn't mean they were the same, all I said was that most of the named brands probably give as much love into the design as the others.

A bikes soul is the person who is riding it, if they ride it like they love it, it will have a great soul regardless of the brand, if they throw it in a heap in the garden and let it rot in between cycles it will have a sadness about it.

From the brands mentioned and what I would impart if I had them:

Bianchi - couldn't love any of their modern frames, they fill me with sadness about how beautiful they used to be
Wilier - Love some/Hate others, would depend on the one I had
Ridley - would be well maintained, but not loved
trek - no love to give no matter how good a bike (brand snob)
specilaized - would feel ashamed to ride one, I would disown it
cube - functional and stylish, would be treated like my own offspring
cannondale - would be raced like I stole it, and loved behind closed doors
giant - no love here (brand snobbery again)
fuji - loved everyone I have ever had, I would stick to track ones though
merida - meh

happytramp

PringleDemon wrote: »

It's a well known fact that much of Campag is now outsourced to Romania . Not much soul about that brand now.

Mmmm, taste all the delicious soul....(also it's not outsourcing when you own the factories)

magicbastarder

pelevin wrote: »

Don't Romanians have souls?

not any more; campagnolo take their souls and inject them into the jockey wheels so they can claim the groupsets have 'soul'.
when your jockey wheels start squealing, that's just the torment of the soul you hear.

pelevin

Sounds mean.

Brian?

CramCycle wrote: »

I didn't mean they were the same, all I said was that most of the named brands probably give as much love into the design as the others.

A bikes soul is the person who is riding it, if they ride it like they love it, it will have a great soul regardless of the brand, if they throw it in a heap in the garden and let it rot in between cycles it will have a sadness about it.

From the brands mentioned and what I would impart if I had them:

Bianchi - couldn't love any of their modern frames, they fill me with sadness about how beautiful they used to be
Wilier - Love some/Hate others, would depend on the one I had
Ridley - would be well maintained, but not loved
trek - no love to give no matter how good a bike (brand snob)
specilaized - would feel ashamed to ride one, I would disown it
cube - functional and stylish, would be treated like my own offspring
cannondale - would be raced like I stole it, and loved behind closed doors
giant - no love here (brand snobbery again)
fuji - loved everyone I have ever had, I would stick to track ones though
merida - meh

I agree with all of that, apart from Fuji. I absolutely love my Fuji Altamira.If I won the Lotto, I'd still keep that frame.

Here's a few more

Canyon: I'd love an Aeroroad

PlanetX: exciting, the way 3 t-shirts for a tenner at Penny's are exciting

Boardman: I didn't think anything could be more boring than Chris Boardman, these bikes proved me wrong.

DaithiMC

CramCycle wrote: »

I didn't mean they were the same, all I said was that most of the named brands probably give as much love into the design as the others.

A bikes soul is the person who is riding it, if they ride it like they love it, it will have a great soul regardless of the brand, if they throw it in a heap in the garden and let it rot in between cycles it will have a sadness about it.

From the brands mentioned and what I would impart if I had them:

Bianchi - couldn't love any of their modern frames, they fill me with sadness about how beautiful they used to be
Wilier - Love some/Hate others, would depend on the one I had
Ridley - would be well maintained, but not loved
trek - no love to give no matter how good a bike (brand snob)
specilaized - would feel ashamed to ride one, I would disown it
cube - functional and stylish, would be treated like my own offspring
cannondale - would be raced like I stole it, and loved behind closed doors
giant - no love here (brand snobbery again)
fuji - loved everyone I have ever had, I would stick to track ones though
merida - meh

This is turning into a classic pub discussion - it is not one were we are going to, or indeed, need to agree! I don't think the soul is just the rider, I have owned classic cars and will be at some point, I hope, an owner of a "classic bike". My appreciation is not just the aesthetic but also the craftmanship and the attention to detail on certain parts so the soul is, in my opinion also the vision of the designer, be they the actual craftsman making the part, or these days, more likely to be the designer using CAD to produce the art for the design.

Mass production has blunted many design features as they are complex and take too long to produce so to me the design aesthetic has gone up a level to tube shape, frame shape and perhaps handlebar/saddle shapes but we no longer see fine detail in, e.g., detailing around lugs, derailleurs, calipers, etc....

diomed

Aeron; Apollo Fusion; Arcane; Argon; Avanti
Btwin; Basso; Beone; BH; Bianchi; BMC; Butler
Cahill; Cannondale; Canyon; Carrera; Casconi; Cervelo; Cinelli; Colnago; Condor; Corratec; Cube
Dawes; De Rosa; Dedacciai; Devinci; Dolan; Dublin City Bike; Dynatek
Eddy Merckx
Felt; Focus; Fondriest; Forme; Fuji
Genesis; Giant; Guercotti
Ican; Isaac
Jupiter
Kellys; Kona; KTM; Kuota
Lapierre; Liv; Look
Mekk; Merida; Moser; Msvelo
Neilpryde
Olympic; Orbea
Paganini; Pinarello; Planet X; Primavera; Principia
Raleigh; Rapide; Ribble; Ridgeback; Ridley; Rose
Scaer; Schwinn; Scott; Sensa; Sintesi; Specialized; Starflight Cita; Stevens; Storck; Stratos; Surly
Thompson; Tifosi; Time; Trek
Univelo
Valente; Van Nicholas; Viner; Vitus
Whistle

I tagged my W200/100 images.
Not sure if some are brand or model (let me know).

CramCycle

Brian? wrote: »

I agree with all of that, apart from Fuji. I absolutely love my Fuji Altamira.If I won the Lotto, I'd still keep that frame.

I love mine too, I also love Gadetras and there is one of the men of the RAS on a new one down at Sundrive that I also love but it is too light for the likes of me.

PlanetX: exciting, the way 3 t-shirts for a tenner at Penny's are exciting

Very apt description, I don't love Penneys t shirts but they are good value, do the job and often look really good, sometimes as good or better than t shirts 10 times the price.

Brian?

CramCycle wrote: »

I love mine too, I also love Gadetras and there is one of the men of the RAS on a new one down at Sundrive that I also love but it is too light for the likes of me.

The Fuji track bikes are smashing looking machines. I doubt I could get permission for a track bike though, I haven't cycled on a track since around 1992/3.

tonytiger81

Tommasini! Still handmade in Italy. Beautiful.

Harrybelafonte

Brian? wrote: »

The Fuji track bikes are smashing looking machines. I doubt I could get permission for a track bike though, I haven't cycled on a track since around 1992/3.

Yes

eeeee

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

Yes

That bike is even hotter in real life, beautiful.
Fuji track bikes are the business!

Brian?

gadetra wrote: »

That bike is even hotter in real life, beautiful.
Fuji track bikes are the business!

Beautiful bikes alright. Are they popular on the track here?

Harrybelafonte

I started on a Fuji Classic.

I believe there are two Fuji Track 2.0, two or three Fuji Classics, and two Track Elite. Dolan are the most popular, then Fuji I think, then maybe Giant?

CramCycle

Brian? wrote: »

The Fuji track bikes are smashing looking machines. I doubt I could get permission for a track bike though, I haven't cycled on a track since around 1992/3.

They rent Dolans at Sundrive for a fiver a session or 2euro if your a student or unemployed. Worth a punt if it takes your fancy again.

Anyway this is way off topic.

Modern but classic looking bikes, Condor Classico or Accacio, a few of the Genesis range. Not the current Charge range but the ones from about 5 years ago, specifically the Juicer range.

Eamonnator

Does this have soul?

A Planet X Carbon pro with 80th anniversary Campagnolo Super Record Gruppo and Campy wheels?


http://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/CBPXSLP80TH/planet-x-pro-carbon-super-record-80th-anniversary-road-bike

Harrybelafonte

Considering the soul is fundamentally an abstract concept and, therefore, subjective, there can be no agreement to what it consists of. In most people's eyes, objects which represent a more modern technological age, where function may be prioritised over form, have less aesthetic value and therefore lack soul, or simply lack soul due to gentrification. Older bikes, steel in particular, due to a conceived greater use of small individualistic add ons, brighter paint schemes, chrome, lugs etc are viewed as more aesthetically pleasing and therefore have more "soul".

Very often the rideability of older frames is ignored, some being great, some not so much, but as with cars, the poor form can be excused as another individualistic characteristic, which calls on the rider to alter his riding style to make the most of the frame. This nuanced riding is perceived to add to the idea of individualism and add to "soul" factor.

No? It all becomes a simple old is good, new is bad motto?

fillup

I own a Merida (Ride 5000) and a Specialized (Langster) plus I've also got the extended-loan-possession-is-9-10ths-of-the-law of a Trek (Alpha)
All fine rothars that have never let me down

I'm puzzled as to the hatred of Specialized.
Is it all down to them suing the Roubaix cafe in Canada or am I missing something?

dragratchet

fillup wrote: »

I'm puzzled as to the hatred of Specialized.
Is it all down to them suing the Roubaix cafe in Canada or am I missing something?

i completely indifferent to spesh personally, lots of companys do underhanded or unethicial things to compete.. but yeah that cafe roubaix case is just one of many instances where specialized got their law talkin guys after small companies for perceived infringements on their copyrights

Brian?

CramCycle wrote: »

They rent Dolans at Sundrive for a fiver a session or 2euro if your a student or unemployed. Worth a punt if it takes your fancy again.

Anyway this is way off topic.

Sounds like good value. Cheers.

Modern but classic looking bikes, Condor Classico or Accacio, a few of the Genesis range. Not the current Charge range but the ones from about 5 years ago, specifically the Juicer range.

I find them all quite mundane to be honest. I think it's because I had bikes that looked similar when it was all one could get. I view them in a similar way to a ford Sierra.