Dual citizenship and travelling to the US

makluse

I am Irish, married to an American, living in the UK. We have a year old son who has both British and American passports, not got around to getting his Irish one yet.

Can't remember why, but we had to get his UK passport soon after his birth, in the UK. Also got his American for when we travelled to the states, but while at the interview process @ the US embassy and talking to another person, they pointed out that going to America on an American passport is fine but coming back he has no right of residence in the UK. Happened to this person where he and his wife, both American with right of residence, had their baby and travelled back to the US, the baby was not allowed re-entry to the UK as he had no right of residence. They let him enter and then this couple got his UK passport to travel on.

So when we went to America last year, we travelled on his UK passport, but on arrival to the US they were not happy, as with American mother they wanted to have him enter for the first time as an American, for some reasons I can't remember now. They eventually let him enter as an American citizen but without any documentation to prove it.

Next month we are travelling from Dublin to the US and I was wondering should we travel on his American passport or UK.

Do we need to enter the US on his American as we had no proof of his citizenship the first time?

Could we travel out on his US and back on his UK passport?

Or are there any other options?

Regards

Makluse

InTheTrees

makluse wrote: »

Next month we are travelling from Dublin to the US and I was wondering should we travel on his American passport or UK.

I believe anyone with dual passports should use the the one that is for the country they are entering.

Use the US passport for entering the US and then use the UK passport for returning to the UK.

That would have worked in the instances you described above wouldnt it?

I dont think its like you have to pick one before you leave. Just take both.

silja

The US wants all its citizens to travel to and from the USA on their US passports, they are VERY picky about this. I agree with the previous poster, simply take both.

makluse

Problem with that is that he will never get any stamps in either passport, so when going through emigration on which ever side they will never know where he has been.

I know an Uncle of mine got into trouble with this, travelling out of the US on his US passport and into Europe on his EU passport. When re-entering the US had all these questions about hiding his travel, and why and for what reason, so even though it was for short queues they looked at it much more sinisterly.

Ideally we would like to travel on his EU passport as its only for a holiday but as its his first official entry with documentation will it affect his citizenship in the US if we enter with his UK passport.

InTheTrees

makluse wrote: »

I know an Uncle of mine got into trouble with this, travelling out of the US on his US passport and into Europe on his EU passport. When re-entering the US had all these questions about hiding his travel, and why and for what reason, so even though it was for short queues they looked at it much more sinisterly.

??

I'm confused

So you have an uncle with dual citizenship, and he told you not to use the us passport for the us and the Eu passport for the Eu?

What did he suggest doing then?

And what was this "trouble" that he got into? They looked at him sinisterly?

I'm a little wary of this story your uncle has told you.

InTheTrees

makluse wrote: »

Ideally we would like to travel on his EU passport as its only for a holiday but as its his first official entry with documentation will it affect his citizenship in the US if we enter with his UK passport.

If he has a us passport you use that for the us.

spideog7

InTheTrees wrote: »

??

I'm confused

So you have an uncle with dual citizenship, and he told you not to use the us passport for the us and the Eu passport for the Eu?

What did he suggest doing then?

And what was this "trouble" that he got into? They looked at him sinisterly?

I'm a little wary of this story your uncle has told you.

I think his point was they didn't find an EU entry stamp on his US passport when he was entering the US (since he didn't use his US passport to enter the EU) which unnerved them a little bit. I don't know if they always look for that stamp or not but I guess without it they don't know where you've been, maybe he was visiting Afghanistan or Pakistan on his trip (which might normally raise red flags).

As for the OP given that the question pertains to a baby I doubt it would be a problem.

Arbiter of Good Taste

If you hold a U.S. passport you must travel into/out of the U.S. using that passport, or risk finding yourself in a holding cell for a few hours.

Though why anyone would want to apply for US citizenship for a non resident in this day and age and subject them to a lifetime of expensive tax returns and onerous filings despite never working a day in their life in that country for the sake of saving 30 minutes queuing every so often.

makluse

spideog7 wrote: »

I think his point was they didn't find an EU entry stamp on his US passport when he was entering the US (since he didn't use his US passport to enter the EU) which unnerved them a little bit. I don't know if they always look for that stamp or not but I guess without it they don't know where you've been, maybe he was visiting Afghanistan or Pakistan on his trip (which might normally raise red flags).

As for the OP given that the question pertains to a baby I doubt it would be a problem.

Exactly, they stated that he may be involved in terrorism. After a while they let them go but warned them that they should at least enter their first port of entry after leaving the US on their US passport. This limited them though to staying for a maximum of 3 months in Ireland, used to stay up to 6 at times.

InTheTrees

This guy may or may not be correct but it was one of the first google hits when asking the question:

"For example, if you hold an EU and US passport and are taking a trip to the US, exit Europe with your EU passport. Upon arrival in the US, show your US passport at the US immigration check. When you return to the EU, show your US passport again upon exiting the country, and enter the EU with your EU passport."

http://beforeitsnews.com/travel/2013/08/dual-citizens-how-to-travel-with-two-passports-2-2455840.html

spideog7

InTheTrees wrote: »

This guy may or may not be correct but it was one of the first google hits when asking the question:

"For example, if you hold an EU and US passport and are taking a trip to the US, exit Europe with your EU passport. Upon arrival in the US, show your US passport at the US immigration check. When you return to the EU, show your US passport again upon exiting the country, and enter the EU with your EU passport."

http://beforeitsnews.com/travel/2013/08/dual-citizens-how-to-travel-with-two-passports-2-2455840.html

You don't need any passport to exit a country though so that doesn't make any sense.

Also just because you enter Ireland on a US passport doesn't mean you can only stay 3 months, you're still an Irish citizen with an Irish passport, they're not going to deport you just because your other passport has a 3 month stamp.

SHOVELLER

spideog7 wrote: »

You don't need any passport to exit a country though so that doesn't make any sense.

WHAT?!!!

iusedtoknow

spideog7 wrote: »

You don't need any passport to exit a country though so that doesn't make any sense.

Also just because you enter Ireland on a US passport doesn't mean you can only stay 3 months, you're still an Irish citizen with an Irish passport, they're not going to deport you just because your other passport has a 3 month stamp.

While you don't show it - your passport is registered with the authorities that you left. So it could get awkward if you leave booked on your european passport when you don't have an ESTA.

Just a little Samba

OP use the US passport to enter AND leave the US.

However, bring the UK passport with you as well so you can use the UK/EU line in the airport in the UK instead of the non EU line, less questions.

Avada

Just a little Samba wrote: »

OP use the US passport to enter AND leave the US.

However, bring the UK passport with you as well so you can use the UK/EU line in the airport in the UK instead of the non EU line, less questions.

This, don't try to enter the UK on the UK passport, simply have it with you to show the officer at the border. They used to issue a certificate of entitlement to put in your other passport, but you can't get that now if you have a UK passport.

Just a little Samba

Avada wrote: »

This, don't try to enter the UK on the UK passport, simply have it with you to show the officer at the border. They used to issue a certificate of entitlement to put in your other passport, but you can't get that now if you have a UK passport.

Exactly.

If you try to use the UK passport to leave the US after using the US passport to enter they will freak out when they can't find the entry stamp for your VISA waiver.

Avada

Just a little Samba wrote: »

Exactly.

If you try to use the UK passport to leave the US after using the US passport to enter they will freak out when they can't find the entry stamp for your VISA waiver.

and then the UK will freak out because things aren't matching up on their e-borders system.

BuffyBot

You don't need any passport to exit a country though so that doesn't make any sense.

Quite a number of countries do require them, to be fair.

spideog7

BuffyBot wrote: »

Quite a number of countries do require them, to be fair.

I suppose that's plausible, I just haven't been to any of them. I do take the point that the passport details are on your ticket so probably registered somewhere in the system. Never had to actually show it or go through any kind of immigration check when leaving the US though, which was my point.

dwayneshintzy

makluse wrote: »

travelling out of the US on his US passport and into Europe on his EU passport.

I use my US passport entering America (as a US citizen, you have to), and my Irish passport entering Ireland/the EU. Never had any problems!

purplecow1977

Wouldn't it be easier just to have one passport?

iusedtoknow

purplecow1977 wrote: »

Wouldn't it be easier just to have one passport?

no.

Dual citizenship has a lot of advantages. Some friends of mine are dual citizens from when their parents came to the US in the 80's. They go back and forth to europe all the time, and both did their university studies in Germany to avoid expensive bank loans here in the US. They were able to do it as EU citizens, but could kick start their careers here if they wanted.

One stayed in Europe, the other came back to the US.

Dual citizenships open a lot of doors.

purplecow1977

I would have thought a lot of that would be okay because of EUROPEAN PASSPORT anyway!

iusedtoknow

purplecow1977 wrote: »

I would have thought a lot of that would be okay because of EUROPEAN PASSPORT anyway!

It is, but the US visa/greencard/citizenship is really complicated. The ideal set up for irish people is to have both US and Irish citizenship so that you can move between the continents pretty easily.

Most dual citizens that I know keep the dual citizenship mostly to pass on to their kids to give them the opportunity of moving to europe if they wanted. They mostly travel on their US documents if they know they are going to be less than 3 months

spideog7

iusedtoknow wrote: »

They mostly travel on their US documents if they know they are going to be less than 3 months

I mentioned this earlier too, but as far as Ireland is concerned (probably Europe really too) surely it doesn't matter what it says in your passport once you're here. You can't possibly overstay if you are an Irish citizen, even if your US passport says you have to leave. You can be a citizen without possessing a passport and what passport you choose to use on any given occasion doesn't change the fact that you're still a citizen of the other country.

I'm not saying it should be done since you might well be breaking a bunch of rules, the US specifically requires that you enter on your US passport, Ireland may well do the same thing, at any rate I doubt they'd be keen on people using their foreign passport since it may show up in their system as someone overstaying.

As far as I'm concerned I would consider becoming a US citizen (when I'm eligible) only so I could freely move to Ireland for any period of time I wanted without having to worry about losing my residency (and to a lesser extent so that I could vote). I need to look into the full details of FATCA though because that might put me off.

Avada

You can actually get a Stamp in your US passport to prove you're an Irish Citizen. Not much good for the rest of Europe though.

pgmcpq

Entering the US use the US passport. Leaving the US show the US passport at checkin, security.
Entering Europe use the European passport.
Leaving Europe for the US use the US passport.

There is no requirement to show the same passport at origin and destination. I've been doing this for a over a decade with no problem. Countries (not just the US) get bent out of shape when their citizens try to enter without using their "local" passport.

circular flexing

spideog7 wrote: »

I suppose that's plausible, I just haven't been to any of them.

Most (all?) countries in the Schengen area have passport controls if exiting the Schengen area, I believe.

InTheTrees

spideog7 wrote: »

As far as I'm concerned I would consider becoming a US citizen (when I'm eligible) only so I could freely move to Ireland for any period of time I wanted without having to worry about losing my residency (and to a lesser extent so that I could vote). I need to look into the full details of FATCA though because that might put me off.

I've been eligible for well over a decade now but havent done it.

A few expats I've talked to mention doing it before leaving the US. The status of social security being so political, its not inconceivable that a future republican party, committed to social security reform, may start by denying foreigners, who are receiving their SS payments in a foreign country (a group of people with NO political clout in the US at all!).
For that reason get your US citizenship before you intend moving home again, its something to consider.

spideog7

InTheTrees wrote: »

I've been eligible for well over a decade now but havent done it.

A few expats I've talked to mention doing it before leaving the US. The status of social security being so political, its not inconceivable that a future republican party, committed to social security reform, may start by denying foreigners, who are receiving their SS payments in a foreign country (a group of people with NO political clout in the US at all!).
For that reason get your US citizenship before you intend moving home again, its something to consider.

I'm not eligible for SS for another few years anyway (10 years working I think) and I fully anticipate that there will be nothing left by the time I retire! But yes I think moving home would be one of the main motivations to get it.

Arbiter of Good Taste

InTheTrees wrote: »

I've been eligible for well over a decade now but havent done it.

A few expats I've talked to mention doing it before leaving the US. The status of social security being so political, its not inconceivable that a future republican party, committed to social security reform, may start by denying foreigners, who are receiving their SS payments in a foreign country (a group of people with NO political clout in the US at all!).
For that reason get your US citizenship before you intend moving home again, its something to consider.

Get US tax advice first. Being a non-resident US citizen can be a very expensive prospect..........

Oh, and some banks wont open accounts for US citizens due to the prohibitive reporting requirements.

InTheTrees

Arbiter of Good Taste wrote: »

Get US tax advice first. Being a non-resident US citizen can be a very expensive prospect..........

Oh, and some banks wont open accounts for US citizens due to the prohibitive reporting requirements.

Interesting. I know about the IRS's long reach which is why I've put it off this long.

iusedtoknow

InTheTrees wrote: »

Interesting. I know about the IRS's long reach which is why I've put it off this long.

Isn't the foreign earnings credit this year 100K? Not too many jobs in Europe pay to that level

Dave1442397

InTheTrees wrote: »

Interesting. I know about the IRS's long reach which is why I've put it off this long.

Better to have it than not, I think. If you decide to leave the US for good, you can always renounce your citizenship.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2015/05/08/new-un-american-record-renouncing-u-s-citizenship/

InTheTrees

iusedtoknow wrote: »

Isn't the foreign earnings credit this year 100K? Not too many jobs in Europe pay to that level

Elderly relatives, wills and probate, etc.

The lawyer I spoke to advised caution and I'm happy enough to wait.

pgmcpq

Arbiter of Good Taste wrote: »

Get US tax advice first. Being a non-resident US citizen can be a very expensive prospect..........

Oh, and some banks wont open accounts for US citizens due to the prohibitive reporting requirements.

Interesting. I was under the impression that the rules on taxes for PR and citizens were the same ?

InTheTrees wrote: »

Elderly relatives, wills and probate, etc.

The lawyer I spoke to advised caution and I'm happy enough to wait.

This an issue I am (sadly) about to face soon. I'd not even considered it. What was the short version of what the lawyer said before I start making calls ?

spideog7

pgmcpq wrote: »

Interesting. I was under the impression that the rules on taxes for PR and citizens were the same ?

It is while you're a US resident (with one small exception involving estate taxes I believe). The issue being discussed on this thread is when/if you were to leave the US for more than 6months (1year with prior approval) at which point your PR would automatically expire.

Pkiernan

IMPORTANT NOTICE

According to Section 215 of the U.S Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1185) it is illegal for a U.S. citizen to enter or leave the U.S on anything other than a U.S. document. This applies to dual citizens as well, meaning that persons holding e.g. both Irish and U.S. citizenships MUST enter and leave the U.S. on a valid U.S. passport; they may NOT enter/leave the U.S. on an Irish/foreign passport. This applies to children as well as adults.


Kind Regards,
BMA │American Citizens Services Unit│U.S. Embassy│ 42 Elgin Road, Ballsbridge, Dublin 4 │ACSDublin@state.gov │ http://dublin.usembassy.gov

kellsred

Pkiernan wrote: »

IMPORTANT NOTICE

According to Section 215 of the U.S Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1185) it is illegal for a U.S. citizen to enter or leave the U.S on anything other than a U.S. document. This applies to dual citizens as well, meaning that persons holding e.g. both Irish and U.S. citizenships MUST enter and leave the U.S. on a valid U.S. passport; they may NOT enter/leave the U.S. on an Irish/foreign passport. This applies to children as well as adults.


Kind Regards,
BMA │American Citizens Services Unit│U.S. Embassy│ 42 Elgin Road, Ballsbridge, Dublin 4 │ACSDublin@state.gov │ http://dublin.usembassy.gov

As stated earlier, use the US one everywhere except passport control in Dublin on your return. I always do it, and am just about to do it again today!

Novella

I am due to have a baby in a few weeks who will be born here in the US. I am an Irish citizen. All going well, I plan to travel to Ireland with baby for Christmas. Should I just apply for a US passport for him/her or is there a reason or benefit to having an Irish passport too?

Bayberry

Novella wrote: »

I am due to have a baby in a few weeks who will be born here in the US. I am an Irish citizen. All going well, I plan to travel to Ireland with baby for Christmas. Should I just apply for a US passport for him/her or is there a reason or benefit to having an Irish passport too?

If the child will only be visiting Ireland, then it probably doesn't need an Irish passport at this point (it will need a US passport to get back into the US!)

But you definitely want to make sure that the child is entered on the register of Foreign Births, so that if/when they want or need an EU passport for work or travel purposes everything is ready to go.

Bayberry

kellsred wrote: »

As stated earlier, use the US one everywhere except passport control in Dublin on your return. I always do it, and am just about to do it again today!

I have a friend who has stopped even using his Irish passport coming in to Dublin. Since his (American) wife is no longer entitled to Irish Citizenship since the law was changed 10 or 12 years ago, she has to wait in the Non-EU line, and he has decided to stay in that line with her. As there is no benefit to using his Irish passport, he just enters Ireland on his US passport.

Avada

Bayberry wrote: »

I have a friend who has stopped even using his Irish passport coming in to Dublin. Since his (American) wife is no longer entitled to Irish Citizenship since the law was changed 10 or 12 years ago, she has to wait in the Non-EU line, and he has decided to stay in that line with her. As there is no benefit to using his Irish passport, he just enters Ireland on his US passport.

He would be different to a newborn child though, the immigration officer would most likely see his place of birth as Ireland and DOB as pre 2004. So automatically an Irish Citizen and not subject to the normal non EU immigration controls.

Bayberry

Avada wrote: »

He would be different to a newborn child though, the immigration officer would most likely see his place of birth as Ireland and DOB as pre 2004. So automatically an Irish Citizen and not subject to the normal non EU immigration controls.

They're just visiting Ireland from the US for a week or two, once or twice a year, so the only "immigration control" involved is a stamp in the passport.

He used to bring his wife with him through the EU citizen line, until a year or two ago when he was told that wasn't allowed.

As he said himself "Welcome Home, me arse!"

lonestargirl

I've travelled into Ireland with an infant on a U.S. Passport and me with my Irish passport without any problem - they let us through the EU line too!

Novella doesn't need to register on the foreign birth register, it is only for people eligible for citenzship to claim it. As she is born in Ireland her child is automatically an Irish citizen. However, if her child was to stay in the U.S. and go on to have children then the foreign birth registry would come into play.
https://www.dfa.ie/passports-citizenship/citizenship/born-abroad/registering-a-foreign-birth/

cena

i HAVE A ENGLISH birth cert but was brought back to Ireland 7 days after been born. My mother is from Liverpool. can I get get a English passport

Avada

Bayberry wrote: »

[b0They're just visiting Ireland from the US for a week or two, once or twice a year, so the only "immigration control" involved is a stamp in the passport.[/b]

He used to bring his wife with him through the EU citizen line, until a year or two ago when he was told that wasn't allowed.

As he said himself "Welcome Home, me arse!"

That's just untrue.

She is non-EU, why should she get in the EU line ahead of others?

Bayberry

Avada wrote: »

That's just untrue.

What's untrue? Until relatively recently, there was no problems with families staying together as a group passing through passport control, which meant that a family with an Irish passport holder could go through the EU line which is sometimes shorter.

In 2013 or 2014 my friend was told that he couldn't do that any more. If he wanted to stay with his family, he might as well leave his Irish passport at home, he'd have to go in the longer non-EU line, and it wouldn't make any difference whether he presented his US passport or his Irish passport, as he'd be allowed in anyway for the week that he was staying.

She is non-EU, why should she get in the EU line ahead of others?

Because she is married to and travelling with an Irish Citizen.

iusedtoknow

cena wrote: »

i HAVE A ENGLISH birth cert but was brought back to Ireland 7 days after been born. My mother is from Liverpool. can I get get a English passport

You probably can - but it'd be worth phoning the embassy or the home office in London to check.

Though why you'd need british citizenship is the question - it's EU so you'd have the same rights everywhere as you do with the Irish one.

él statutorio

Avada wrote: »

That's just untrue.

She is non-EU, why should she get in the EU line ahead of others?

Because they (used to anyway) try and keep families with small kids together.

I've had mixed results travelling with my wife (American citizen) and my daughter (both passports). Depends on the Garda on duty. Younger ones tend to be sticklers, older ones (presumably with kids of their own) let us all through together.

él statutorio

iusedtoknow wrote: »

You probably can - but it'd be worth phoning the embassy or the home office in London to check.

Though why you'd need british citizenship is the question - it's EU so you'd have the same rights everywhere as you do with the Irish one.

Only reason I could see might be that some countries might let UK citizens in without a visa and Irish might need one?


Can't think of any country though.