€399 Xbox One/PS4 Killer?

Sobanek

Hey guys, so I've been doing some thinking about buying a PS4 and decided that I don't want one and I want a good PC

However, I am on a tight budget of only €400 (PC only)

Here's something I prepped up myself:
MOBO: ASRock H81M-DGS R2
CPU: Intel Celeron G1840 2.8GHz
RAM: Corsair 8GB (1x8GB) 1333MHz DDR3 RAM
GPU: Palit GeForce GT 730 1GB DDR3 (902MHz)
HDD: Toshiba 500GB 5400RPM 2.5 SATA
DVD: Samsung SH-224DB DVD-RW
PSU: EVGA 430W White 80PLUS
Case: Zalman T4 Black Mini Tower.

The total comes up to €334.11 so there is still some room to upgrade something here, but not sure if I should upgrade the CPU or the GPU.

Any tips?

Maybe I should go AMD?

RossieMan

You need to upgrade both your CPU and GPU to make it a worthwhile build.

AMD for this budget for sure.

Sobanek

MOBO: Gigabyte F2A68HM-HD2 Socket FM2+
CPU: AMD Athlon II X4 860K 3.7GHz Quad Core
GPU: MSI Radeon R7 250X 1000MHz 1GB GDDR5

Total is now €412.98 so a tiny bit over budget, but how would that compare against the PS4 and X1? Would it provide equivalent or better quality at 1080p?

whiteramekin

would you not be able to wait a month or two and throw a little bit more at it?

sony and ms can get away with the cheapness of their consoles because of the scale of the production and the money they get back from software and peripherals.. you just don't have that sort of scale to play with when building a custom pc

Sobanek

I don't want to spend much more on the PC than I would have on a PS4/Xbox One as that PC will be used only for games...

As long as I get equivalent quality and 1080p, I'm happy enough like.

I don't need 60fps by the way :P

whiteramekin

it doesn't really work like that though, you are going to have to overspend a little if you want to match the two consoles.. especially over the coming years

you'll make that money back over the long haul with cheaper games, steam sales, humble bundle sales etc etc... but the initial outlay is just going to have to be a larger amount if you want a decent machine. this kind of **** could fly when the ps3 and 360 were 4-5 years old but it'll be a few years before the pc can trounce the newer consoles to that degree.

Digital Solitude

€500 is the bare minimum I can spec to outperform the consoles.

Buy three games and you've already saved €50 over the consoles.

I can try spec a €400 if you want but it'll be tight as a nun

Sobanek

Right, what about €520.

CPU is now an AMD A10 7700K 3.5GHz and the GPU is now an MSI Radeon R7 370 Gaming 2GB GDDR5.

@up, sure, why not

TerrorFirmer

Forget AMD, they're miles behind Intel in the gaming processor leagues. Get an i3-4150 or 4160. Graphics card wise aim for a GTX750Ti.

Actually basically your original build but with the i3 instead of the Celeron and the GTX750Ti instead of the GT730.

That original build you spec'd up would struggle its way through the latest games at low settings with difficulty at times.

Also make sure to get a normal 3.5" drive not a 2.5" one, which is for laptops.

Digital Solitude

at €500

MSI H81 P33 €60
1tb HDD €50
8gb RAM €50
i3 4160 €115
400w PSU €50
Zalman T4 €20

Then a second hand R9 270X, which is a fair card, or a new GTX 750Ti, also a good card but slower than the R9.

At €400, drop GPU to a GTX 650 second hand, drop CPU to a Pentium G3258, should come fairly close to €400.

The cheaper build will game worse and mightn't launch all newer games as it's only Dual Core (i3 Has Hyperthreading to get around this)

All prices are from hardwareversand after geizhals.de affiliate site. Second hand cards are prices from Cex

Sobanek

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

Forget AMD, they're miles behind Intel in the gaming processor leagues. Get an i3-4150 or 4160. Graphics card wise aim for a GTX750Ti.

Actually basically your original build but with the i3 instead of the Celeron and the GTX750Ti instead of the GT730.

That original build you spec'd up would struggle its way through the latest games at low settings with difficulty at times.

Also make sure to get a normal 3.5" drive not a 2.5" one, which is for laptops.

Are you sure a 3.5GHz Quad Core wouldn't be faster than a 3.5GHz Dual Core? I know AMDs are a bit slower as proven before with two PCs that I had (Q9400, the other was a Phenom II X4 945, rest was the same) but I suppose there would be a huge difference between dual core and quad core or am I that not up to date now :pac::pac::pac:

Digital Solitude

Not all gHz are the same.

For multi-threaded tasks the AMD would be faster, but for gaming, Intel vs AMD, an i3 will often outperform the likes of a 8350 at over 4gHz

Kimbot

If you want to save a few euro CEX have 1TB Sata Drives for €20

Sobanek

Hmmm, decisions, decisions...

Kimbot

8GB of ram :https://ie.webuy.com/product.php?sku=SMEM9QAEB#.VYyPTvlViko

42 euro

Xenoronin

Managed to build this for ~440€

MSI H81 mATX board
i3 4170
R9 270X (second hand for 90€)
1TB HDD
N200 Coolermaster case
2x4gb DDR3 1600MHz Crucial RAM
400W PSU Corsair

Would definitely consider it a console killer anyway.

Captain Chaos

Xenoronin wrote: »

Managed to build this for ~440€

MSI H81 mATX board
i3 4170
R9 270X (second hand for 90€)
1TB HDD
N200 Coolermaster case
2x4gb DDR3 1600MHz Crucial RAM
400W PSU Corsair

Would definitely consider it a console killer anyway.

You don't even have the minimum specs for Batman that was just released. Yet a console can run it fine.

You'd really want to be spending more than €600-700 or you are just wasting your time really imo. You may as well get a console with that spec tbh. It would play more of the latest titles than that build. A PS4 is only €350 now in Argos.

whiteramekin

ah now, no one has the min specs for batman that was just released

Gumbi

Captain Chaos wrote: »

You don't even have the minimum specs for Batman that was just released. Yet a console can run it fine.

You'd really want to be spending more than €600-700 or you are just wasting your time really imo. You may as well get a console with that spec tbh. It would play more of the latest titles than that build. A PS4 is only €350 now in Argos.

Selling of Batman has been suspended because perf is so sh!t. The builds suggesred above slaughter consoles. Many console games can't push 1080p and run at 30FPS.

Captain Chaos

whiteramekin wrote: »

ah now, no one has the min specs for batman that was just released

Not even going there but you know what I'm getting at.
Even say, The Witcher 3 on the above spec, I don't think I'd enjoy it too much.

Any sort of gaming PC build, I'd start with an I5 or I just can't justify it unless you just plan on playing older games.

Xenoronin

A 270X won't run a broken port? Woah.
Seriously though, something of this spec will play pretty much anything you throw at it. You may have to reduce the graphic settings from time to time to keep the framerate steady.
You don't *have* to blow your money on a high spec PC. A lot of people do just because they want the longevity or want to do exotic things like run 1440p or 4k. Or just get max graphics and not have to worry.
i3 is fine for games. It isn't a major bump in cost to go i5 even then, bump the budget to 500 and there you go. The sacred i5.

You are preaching consoles in a PC Building forum though so you aren't gonna get much support here :P

whiteramekin

Captain Chaos wrote: »

Not even going there but you know what I'm getting at.
Even say, The Witcher 3 on the above spec, I don't think I'd enjoy it too much.

Any sort of gaming PC build, I'd start with an I5 or I just can't justify it unless you just plan on playing older games.

i do agree with you generally speaking but i don't really know if the above specs would struggle to play modern games at an equivalent quality that you'd get on the consoles. pc gamers tend to get stuck into the notion of 'max everything, let god sort it out' but if you're trying to just have parity with an xbone.. you can probably knock quite a few of the settings down to medium and be grand

TerrorFirmer

jonny24ie wrote: »

8GB of ram :https://ie.webuy.com/product.php?sku=SMEM9QAEB#.VYyPTvlViko

42 euro

It's OK to buy graphics cards from CEX as they test those.

They do not test Ram and hard drives.

As a result, I once ordered a decent amount of ram online - between half of it being ECC ram and another quarter simply not working, the entire order was a waste of time and it took them six weeks to refund me.

Not too bad if they have stock in your local as at least you can return it there but your local store will not take back returns from the online shop.

TerrorFirmer

Captain Chaos wrote: »

Not even going there but you know what I'm getting at.
Even say, The Witcher 3 on the above spec, I don't think I'd enjoy it too much.

That's just silly. The Witcher 3 runs at 900p on Xb1 at 30-40fps and at 1080p on the PS4 at locked 30fps - often dropping below that also. Eurogamer says that some sections drop to 20fps on the PS4 for extended periods. XB1 doesn't suffer this as much.

Techspot's GPU benchmarks show an R9 270X can mantain an average of 44fps at 1080P medium settings with a minimum framerate of 38.

It's CPU benchark shows that the i3-4150 runs the game at an average of 84FPS, with a minimum of 74FPS.

Yet you're saying it's not worth the bother despite performing a lot better than either console?

Kimbot

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

It's OK to buy graphics cards from CEX as they test those.

They do not test Ram and hard drives.

As a result, I once ordered a decent amount of ram online - between half of it being ECC ram and another quarter simply not working, the entire order was a waste of time and it took them six weeks to refund me.

Not too bad if they have stock in your local as at least you can return it there but your local store will not take back returns from the online shop.

Well I have to say my local test ram as Ive had a chat with the lad that tests all the stuff and have bought ram a few times off them for various builds. I had one time that was wrong but was refunded as soon as I went back into them.

TerrorFirmer

The guy in my local even told me they don't test it. I received my order from online and it was drawn from a number of shops nationwide, 75% of it was faulty/EEC ram that couldn't have passed any testing. I since bought RAM in my local knowing I could at least return it - and I had to return half of it as it did not work.

They also don't test processors. Like the ram/hard drives most of it comes from bulk purchased old office/business/whatever type machines, and they are stripped, parts presumed working.

Digital Solitude

Processors don't up an die often in fairness, once it's not been dropped or something stupid I'd day they're safe.

8gb DDR3 is only €52 so buying second hand isn't worth it there tbh

Hard drives I wouldn't get second hand either, for their liking to up and calve

TerrorFirmer

No I agree on that, I've never once encountered a faulty processor be it new, second hand, or even occasionally salvaged from a skip! But more just to reinforce the point that they do not test the items they strip, they're presumed working.

Which is fine if you buy local, as you can just return them, but it becomes a major pain when you've purchased online (there is no central warehouse, they just draw stock from stores nationwide).

Their customer service is also probably the worst I've ever encountered. They have literally got one email address for absolutely everything - returns, queries, feedback, etc - and they do not offer phone numbers for any store, head office, anything. It took me six weeks to get a refund on the haul of faulty ram, and that was only after I posted on their facebook page....all of my emails to that one magical address were ignored for two weeks prior to that.

Which is why I heartily endorse buying stuff from your local stuff CEX, and Graphics cards bought online are also fine (but you can also order them into your local store for free, so I'd recommend that), but RAM and hard drives bought from CEX online are a major no-no.

Digital Solitude

Back on topic, mine or Xenoronins builds are console killers in your price range, seeing as Terror hasn't offered any corrections you're probably good to go with either of the three

Thoughts?

TerrorFirmer

The only thing I would avoid is the G3258 based build - it's a great processor and offers great value for money but it's a pain when certain games will not run due to detecting a dual core without HT. Even though most of those games run perfectly when you apply various fixes.

There's also the issue of minimum frames in certain games, even with at 4.4Ghz the G3258 will have excellent average framerates, but minimums are terrible in certain titles like Battlefield 4, GTA V, to name a few. I was a fan but extensive testing of it changed my mind completely, wouldn't recommend it for any gaming build.

Easier to just commit to an i3 now which will last several years. It can be tempting to opt for something like the much cheaper AMD 860K but it's just so inferior to the i3 I wouldn't bother. The processor should always be the heart of your build really.

Buy decent processor and afforable GPU now - replace GPU in a year or two.

Buy weak processor and a slightly faster GPU and you end up replacing both in a year or two.

frozenfrozen

reddit software swap windows key too

Gumbi

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

The only thing I would avoid is the G3258 based build - it's a great processor and offers great value for money but it's a pain when certain games will not run due to detecting a dual core without HT. Even though most of those games run perfectly when you apply various fixes.

There's also the issue of minimum frames in certain games, even with at 4.4Ghz the G3258 will have excellent average framerates, but minimums are terrible in certain titles like Battlefield 4, GTA V, to name a few. I was a fan but extensive testing of it changed my mind completely, wouldn't recommend it for any gaming build.

Easier to just commit to an i3 now which will last several years. It can be tempting to opt for something like the much cheaper AMD 860K but it's just so inferior to the i3 I wouldn't bother. The processor should always be the heart of your build really.

Buy decent processor and afforable GPU now - replace GPU in a year or two.

Buy weak processor and a slightly faster GPU and you end up replacing both in a year or two.

So the HT in i3 helps that much vs the lack thereof the the G3258? I didn't know that, useful to know. That being said, the G2358 is so much cheaper than the i3, and canebe OCed, so the value is there for those who need them.

TerrorFirmer

The lack of HT is what kills the G3258. Some games won't even start without having to apply third party fixes.

In games like Battlefield 4, GTA V and one or two others that I've personally tested, the average frame-rates are strong but the game will frequently plummet to single digit FPS randomly and frequently - enough to noticeably impact game-play experience.

Other games run fine, but all in all, I think it would be a poor choice for a gaming build. I'd prefer to take AMD's 860K if I had zero choice, which although much weaker, offers far better minimum framerates which is my opinion is far more important. So in a chart, the G3258 might have an average framerate comparable to an i3 or i5 - but the minimum will often be single digit versus five times that for the stronger CPU's.

Sobanek

Right, thank you for all your advice.

I've ordered the following parts:

Motherboard: MSI H81M-P33 (S1150)
CPU: Intel Core i3-4160 3.6GHz
RAM: Corsair 8GB (2x4GB) 1600MHz DDR3 RAM
GPU: MSI GeForce GTX 750 Ti 2GB GDDR5 1009MHz
HDD: Toshiba 500GB Deskstar SATA 6GB/s 32MB 7200RPM 3.5" Hard Drive
DVD: Samsung SH-224DB DVD-RW Writer
PSU: EVGA 430W White 80PLus
Case: Zalman T4 Black

Total came up to €497.42 so I think I'm happy enough. I'm just worried the 430 Watt PSU might not be enough...

Digital Solitude

430 is plenty, a 350w would have done you to be honest.

Sobanek

Great, leaves some room for future upgrades in that case!

You just made me realise how behind I am in terms of PC building.

The last PC I built had a Q9400 and a GTX 260 in it and that was some machine back then... I was one of the few to be able to run GTA IV back then :P

Gumbi

That's a quality machine for the price, you won't be disappointed!

BloodBath

Sobanek wrote: »

Right, thank you for all your advice.

I've ordered the following parts:

Motherboard: MSI H81M-P33 (S1150)
CPU: Intel Core i3-4160 3.6GHz
RAM: Corsair 8GB (2x4GB) 1600MHz DDR3 RAM
GPU: MSI GeForce GTX 750 Ti 2GB GDDR5 1009MHz
HDD: Toshiba 500GB Deskstar SATA 6GB/s 32MB 7200RPM 3.5" Hard Drive
DVD: Samsung SH-224DB DVD-RW Writer
PSU: EVGA 430W White 80PLus
Case: Zalman T4 Black

Total came up to €497.42 so I think I'm happy enough. I'm just worried the 430 Watt PSU might not be enough...

That PC would only use about 150w under full load if not less.

Sobanek

BloodBath wrote: »

That PC would only use about 150w under full load if not less.

To be honest that was the cheapest PSU available from where I ordered the parts. I have used a 500W variant before and it was grand, so I suppose the 430W isn't bad either.

Leaves me some room for upgrades either way.

BloodBath

Sobanek wrote: »

To be honest that was the cheapest PSU available from where I ordered the parts. I have used a 500W variant before and it was grand, so I suppose the 430W isn't bad either.

Leaves me some room for upgrades either way.

Well the 430 only has a single 8/6 pin gpu power connection so that might limit your gpu choices in the future.

There are high powered GPU options like the GTX 970 that will run off of that though.

The next gen of GPU's should see a big power requirement drop with a drop in gpu die size and HBM memory so it should be ok for a few years anyway.

TheDoc

http://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/wiki/builds#wiki_the_next-gen_crusher

There is a few updated builds that might provide some alternatives if they havn't been mentioned here