recover to normal social levels

aidanki

Hi all,

I regularly follow here on boards but don’t post too often.

This is my story and I could do with a few opinions as to where I go for some help.

Im 33 and engineer but am quite as a mouse and have v few friends as a result. Why- naturally introverted character coupled with v strict upbringing and not having the sense of humour of a lamp post as a result. I was also the bright boy in the class at school which led to a fair bit of bullying however that’s a long time ago now, bullying was due to jealousy………time to be forgetting and be moving on, indeed that all stopped when I went to college. My first instinct when I meet total strangers is slightly defensive as a result I think rather than naturally open and friendly Im trying hard to address this.

Im also not a confident person as a result, I conceed in most discussions/arguments I get involved in, even though Im a wizard technically, when it comes to interviews/review I make a mess………..

Parents aren’t v social people, indeed my mother things its wrong to socialize I think, and she disencouraged it whenever she could, never once did we have a birthday party in the house, never once was there someone from school over at the house to play with us as children or even as a child. I remember being advised not to buy a mobile phone………….
My father lives more in the real world however he stood by and let all the above happen………..

I also cut myself off while in college thinking I was being clever studying……….I never lived during college something I bitterly regret. I also grew up on a farm and that took all my attention thus there was never a family holiday and past times were farm work. Needless to say you weren’t a good boy at home unless you achieved good grades at school, that’s the only thing that mattered along with saving money. Saving money = hard work and save the money don’t spend it don’t enjoy it………..a pretty sickening attitude to grow up in I think………if I had the choice again Id run away I think if Id known how I was going to end up currently would definitely have moved school.

I really enjoyed farm work until I realized that there was more to life than farming and have totally lost interest now……I also realized that hanging around on a farm with a generation of people 30years my senior wasn’t a good idea, how I didn't see that when I was 15years old I don't know.

Solitary activities were all that was encouraged in the house I grew up in, wasn’t allowed play football as wasn’t good enough make the team, therefore shouldn’t go as it was taking time from school work.

I don’t pretty much speak to parents even now……the creed of education and greed they believe in sickens me TBH, I guess they meant well.

I have two brothers neither live in the same part of the country as me, they don’t seem to be as introverted as me and seem to have done alright for themselves regarding social lives.

Good points - Im not mean Im not nasty Ive never hurt anyone, v few could say he didn’t do me a favour at some stage.

As a result of being so quite and having 0 friends I could really do with some advice as to what I could do to change this, I play tag rugby and I cycle have become more proractive at making phonecalls to people that I know, even though they don’t live in the same part of the country as me due to us all having moved a few times due to moving job.

Has anyone any suggestions as to what I could do to improve, I mean how do I improve my sense of humour, how could I be more talkative, how could I actually make some friends.

Sick of work work work, for all the thanks there was for it…….I really want to get out of this rut Im stuck in.

Long story short its 5 years at this stage since someone has texted me asked me come for a drink, Im always chasing people and usually hopefully tagging along with someone, needless to say after initial talking, as I just can’t make small talk and be funny and nice to be around, Im often left nursing a drink alone after a short time. (I don’t have a drink problem btw as I don’t drink alone)

As the anxiety associated with the above story has given me a v uneasy feeling in my stomach to put it mildly I have been to psychologist but it hasn’t helped me much TBH, the things Im supposed to do are put myself out there join things and meet people and try and ask them for phone numbers etc.

Regarding friends from work- no one my own age or even close to it who actually has free time

One last question- was anyone ever in the same situation as me and recovered to be a normal person with a normal life. I have thought about moving abroad however if something is broken in one country I don’t see it being fixed by moving to another, only once have I been abroad for holiday purposes Id really like to change that but think it would be a miserable experience alone, Ive never lived in another country.

Well thanks for taking the time to read this as its pretty long

R.D. aka MR.D

Hey OP,

What is your usual topic of conversation? Is it positive and upbeat?
You describe being left alone after a while. I've seen this happen and it's usually to people who come across as distant or mopey.

I didn't grow up with the best childhood and have been fairly messed up because of it but the best thing that I've done is own my actions as an adult. I can link the things I do to my past but I don't excuse them. I'm an adult now and it's up to me to act right irregardless of my past. It's a reason but not an excuse.

Don't move abroad. I live in Asia at the minute and it seems like every guy in the world who is socially awkward moves here. They are still alone and themselves but in a different country where they can get away with it.

You can take charge of your life. Every day is a new day to wake up and change yourself for the better.

aidanki

R.D. aka MR.D wrote: »

Hey OP,

What is your usual topic of conversation? Is it positive and upbeat?
You describe being left alone after a while. I've seen this happen and it's usually to people who come across as distant or mopey.


You can take charge of your life. Every day is a new day to wake up and change yourself for the better.

I guess my answers are kinda short and snappy to the questions and topics and I don't have a lot to say.


This is what I need to cure/address and it seems impossible to find an answer as to how to cure this problem. People have said when you answer a question give 5 sentences, id love to be able to do that, however there are times I struggle with more that 1.

I don't know have I some personality disorder or is it I never hung around with other people enough, I think thats my problem TBH

I wish someone could say to me go get a proper diagnosis, and get a cure from that.......according to physcologist Im fine and I just need to put myself out there more

however I really could use some lessons on how to put myself out there, so if anyone is able to recommend classes/books or someone that I should see to help me please feel free

I go to toastmasters and can make a prepared speech no problem, its just socializing I have a problem with

Diziet

One of the key things in talking to people is to listen. Ask them about themselves, what they do, what they think about something, and really pay attention to their answers. If people ask you about yourself, then elaborate a bit on the answer and leave the conversation open, perhaps with anothe question to the person.
So for example if they ask about your holiday plans don't just say: no, too busy, haven't made any. It's really hard work for the other person to respond to that. Try instead 'you know, I shoujd do something about that, I have been too wrapped up at work. I'd love to go somewhere sunny/ somewhere exotic/etc. what about yourself, any plans for the summer'? You get the idea: in the first instance the conversation dies, in the second it keeps going.

R.D. aka MR.D

I actually teach ESL and just this week the lesson was on 'continuing a conversation'.

Here are the tips from the unit:

-Add a comment. (So, no one word answers. Basically elaborate. Example:

Where do you work?

I'm an engineer. It's great/It's alright.

That extra comment gives the other person a chance to ask a follow up question)

- Ask a question (Example:

Where do you work?

I'm an engineer. How about yourself?

People love chatting away about themselves.)

-Express interest (This is really important. Oh really? Oh that's interesting/mad/crazy/amazing. Are you serious? Oh, I never knew/thought that. Be interested in the other person. Nobody wants to continue a conversation with someone who seems uninterested in them.)

When you go to your toastmasters/rugby etc, do you make the effort to talk to people? Most people if you ask them 'How are ya getting on?' they'll take it as a cue to start a conversation. Take the initiative.

Fake it until you make it. Don't feel confident? Just pretend you are. It'll help a lot. I'd even go so far as to tell you to try to think of topics of conversation before you head out somewhere so you have something up your sleeve for if there is a silence. 'Here, did ya see that thing on the news about xyz mildly interesting subject?' Unless the people you are interacting with aren't very sociable themselves they'll usually respond with 'Yeah, I think blah blah blah' or 'No, what was that about?'.


You can do it, OP! Believe in yourself and take small steps.

aidanki

whats ESL ? English as second language is it ?

more later

Sleepy

Solo travelling can do wonders for some people who are a bit introverted as it sort of forces you to chat to other people. Book a couple of weeks off work, do some reading on-line about backpacking and travel through eastern europe staying in Hostels. I've never been brilliant socially but I thrived doing it and I found I came back feeling a lot more positive about the world from the few short trips I made. I made a few friends that I ended up showing around Dublin when their travels brought them here and met up with a few of them a couple of times when work took me to London.

One key benefit of such travel is that you can afford to make social mistakes: you're only going to be in each hostel for a couple of nights at most so if you make a prat of yourself somehow (or end up in a hostel with a group you find to be prats) you can just leave the next day, no harm, no foul. As with most things, practice improves your social skills and in the world of backpackers hostels you'll be meeting new people a few times a day.

Try doing it on a fairly tight budget to see if longer-term travelling might be something you'd enjoy but do remind yourself that it's a holiday so if you end up drinking every night on a short trip, that might not resemble a longer trip where you'd have to watch the budget a lot tighter and just crash in the hostel with a kindle every now and then.

stickyfinger

What do you like doing, or what are you interested in? You don't really say in your post other than talking about work, playing tag and cycling. Perhaps try meetup.com groups that focus on socialising or on the other interests you have, rather than just the more formal toastmasters scenario.

I concur with the other poster with the advice to add on a comment to give another person the opportunity or a hook to use to ask you more, or ask people about themselves. Perhaps if you don't want to ask direct questions ask what they enjoy about what they do, or ask about anything you are interested in, people love talking about themselves, for most it's a case of wind them up and listen to them go.

If you want to go on holidays and don't want to travel solo there are lots of companies out there that have group holidays like intrepid, exodus etc, loads of them that have groups of about 12 people for their trips. There are plenty of people in the same position, they may have a few friends or not but it's often really difficult to find someone to go on holidays with whether it's due to money, partners, getting time off at the same time or just not wanting to do the same thing. Solo travel is great, but it's not for everyone so the tour group companies are great too, or even as a taster pre travelling solo.

Follow the things you are interested in or semi interested in and that should at least put you in touch with others with the same interests or give you something else to talk about to people.

I'm a similar age to you and have always been a bit socially awkward, like yourself education was the no 1 focus and socialising was almost frowned upon when growing up so yeah it probably comes from my upbringing as well, but different children are affected in different ways by the same upbringing so the rest of my family seem more 'normal' to me! However your parents were probably just doing their best so you need to put the past behind you and move on with fixing it. Now I'll still repeatedly put in the effort to chat to people I have nothing in common with, I just ask them questions about themselves and if they ask me I'll just tell them whatever is going on. Eventually you find a few people you click with, but I accept the rest think I'm a little odd (though I'm sure a lot of that is in my head) but sure they'll still chat to me! As I get older I really have stopped caring what others think so much, and just jabber on about whatever I'm interested in or ask others a lot about themselves. At the end of the day most people are nice and are just looking for someone to have a chat with so your psychologist is right you need to put yourself out there, it's hard at the start especially but you'll get there. Based on your post you're well able to express yourself in writing, so with practice you'll be able to do it in conversation too.

Sorry for such a long post, but as it resonates I had to respond!

R.D. aka MR.D

aidanki wrote: »

whats ESL ? English as second language is it ?

Yes. 'Learning how to have a conversation' is a lot more than learning the language in a lot of cultures so I think those tips could be helpful for you if you're looking for ways to improve your conversation technique.

aidanki

stickyfinger wrote: »

What do you like doing, or what are you interested in? You don't really say in your post other than talking about work, playing tag and cycling. Perhaps try meetup.com groups that focus on socialising or on the other interests you have, rather than just the more formal toastmasters scenario.

I concur with the other poster with the advice to add on a comment to give another person the opportunity or a hook to use to ask you more, or ask people about themselves. Perhaps if you don't want to ask direct questions ask what they enjoy about what they do, or ask about anything you are interested in, people love talking about themselves, for most it's a case of wind them up and listen to them go.

If you want to go on holidays and don't want to travel solo there are lots of companies out there that have group holidays like intrepid, exodus etc, loads of them that have groups of about 12 people for their trips. There are plenty of people in the same position, they may have a few friends or not but it's often really difficult to find someone to go on holidays with whether it's due to money, partners, getting time off at the same time or just not wanting to do the same thing. Solo travel is great, but it's not for everyone so the tour group companies are great too, or even as a taster pre travelling solo.

Follow the things you are interested in or semi interested in and that should at least put you in touch with others with the same interests or give you something else to talk about to people.

I'm a similar age to you and have always been a bit socially awkward, like yourself education was the no 1 focus and socialising was almost frowned upon when growing up so yeah it probably comes from my upbringing as well, but different children are affected in different ways by the same upbringing so the rest of my family seem more 'normal' to me! However your parents were probably just doing their best so you need to put the past behind you and move on with fixing it. Now I'll still repeatedly put in the effort to chat to people I have nothing in common with, I just ask them questions about themselves and if they ask me I'll just tell them whatever is going on. Eventually you find a few people you click with, but I accept the rest think I'm a little odd (though I'm sure a lot of that is in my head) but sure they'll still chat to me! As I get older I really have stopped caring what others think so much, and just jabber on about whatever I'm interested in or ask others a lot about themselves. At the end of the day most people are nice and are just looking for someone to have a chat with so your psychologist is right you need to put yourself out there, it's hard at the start especially but you'll get there. Based on your post you're well able to express yourself in writing, so with practice you'll be able to do it in conversation too.

Sorry for such a long post, but as it resonates I had to respond!

interested in - it was work and trying to be successful, (communication skills/influencing skills and the inability to lie about others/influence others have let me down somewhat rather than I wouldn't put in the hours or try, v v v disappointed with myself tbh) followed by farming, followed by tv, followed by sports/activities, followed by family........

now my interest is in trying to fix my social skills and develop a circle of friends, and maybe even a gf if Im lucky, followed by sports, maybe try and do some travelling, I've never taken holidays always spent them at home farming

what did you find good to help fixing your social skills if you don't mind me asking, its not exactly a defined science I know

funny there is a course for everything plumbing electircity reading writing etc, but none for something simple like social skills

stickyfinger

I think following my interests for things I like to do helped the most as you automatically talk about what it is you are doing so you have a topic of conversation to start with. For example going travelling by myself on some small tour group holidays, I like ones with maybe hiking or some type of activity or interesting place I really want to go, people are in good form as they are on their holidays and generally from different countries so they are interested to talk to you about where they are from, what they do, where else they have been. Maybe I'm just nosey but I'd always ask people where they've been, what places they want to go to etc, some people have really interesting lives and you'd never guess it at the start. Then also travelling solo after that, staying in hostels especially as you hang out in the common area or with people in your dorm and initially other people might talk to you and gradually you'll be the one initiating conversations with others. You have to make the effort too, but it's easier when you've things in common such as different touristy things you want to go see that you can join up with others and make your holidays a bit more social. Also joining a group or two in something I'm interested in.

With those you force yourself to talk to people or otherwise you time is fairly lonely, and really it is just that initial start that is the hardest, gradually it becomes more automatic with the initial conversation. Also in work, I worked in big open plan offices, I started going over to people's desks to ask them questions rather than just emailing so I built up more of a rapport with them and I always went to any work social event that was going on, even just drinks at the end of the week. Yeah it sometimes can get a bit repetitive making chit chat, but you have to do it in order to find the people you have more in common with, but there will always be people you just have nothing in common with, or people in work who have no interest in making friends in work, or people who are like squeezing blood out of a stone to talk to, but then it's worth the effort for the people you end up getting on with.

I do think that you should focus more on your interests in activities/sports as a way to meet people and talk to them. If you try some of the meetup.com groups or any activity group you'll find the reason most people go is to try and build a social circle, and try a few, even things you might just like to try once. The hardest part is going the first time, and after that you'll get used to it and might be willing to try more of them. Also since you mention travelling I'd suggest just biting the bullet and booking yourself into a tour operator one, make it activity based or somewhere you've always wanted to go, take a week or two or three, seriously go for it, it's amazing to see different places and challenge yourself a bit on an adventure, I've gone on a few and enjoyed them all and would go again, then someday try it solo, you'll only wish you'd gone sooner!

Also try not to beat yourself up about what you're like socially, you're probably putting a lot of pressure on yourself, in some respects you have to accept how you are and just keep making the effort to try talking to people. A lot of people here mention it but books like Quiet (Susan Cain) etc are good for introverts, for realising you're normal, there is nothing wrong with how you are, I love spending time by myself as well, but unfortunately you do just have to put in more effort to put yourself out their socially to make friends, extroverts have to put in the effort too but I think perhaps they don't find it so taxing.

HardenendMan

Hey OP,

I am an engineer too :-) and share very similar traits to you (Shy, socially incompetent!).

But I've learned to not try to conform. I don't like small talk. But I've accepted it's who I am. So rather than change it, I've developed a kind of split personality whereby I act like a normal person. That might sound weird.

Basically I can be talking to someone new. I am saying in my head "oh leave me alone. I don't care about your pets. Just fcuk off!" Haha. But I look them in the eye and smile warmly like I'm listening. A couple of yeahs, oh really, wow, and they are none the wiser.

It's often said that life is a play. Well I am the ultimate actor. But I learned to treat it as a game.

Just ask yourself - why do you want to be "normal"?

The advice ultimately is this - don't try change who you are at heart. Accept that you hate people ( joke lol ).

Ps I think me and you would get on great. Engineers are weirdos eh?

JuliusCaesar

Small talk is just a way of getting to know somebody safely, without getting into deep and meaningful conversations. You want to know that you trust and like somebody before getting to the soul-baring of deep and meaningful conversations!

So yes, the guff about weather, films, programmes, cat videos, hobbies, etc serves the function of finding out a little bit about the other person - it's superficial, but so what? If you want to get to the core of the person, you start by unwrapping them. It starts to give you an idea of who this person is, their likes and dislikes, their values and so on - and whether you are interested in each other, whether friendship is possible, or whether they hold the kind of views about life that you find alien and repulsive.

It's a dance where both of you build up an idea of each other, and can withdraw at any point with no face lost, no hurt feelings.

And it's a really useful skill in life! (and learnable too)

aidanki

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

Small talk is just a way of getting to know somebody safely, without getting into deep and meaningful conversations. You want to know that you trust and like somebody before getting to the soul-baring of deep and meaningful conversations!

So yes, the guff about weather, films, programmes, cat videos, hobbies, etc serves the function of finding out a little bit about the other person - it's superficial, but so what? If you want to get to the core of the person, you start by unwrapping them. It starts to give you an idea of who this person is, their likes and dislikes, their values and so on - and whether you are interested in each other, whether friendship is possible, or whether they hold the kind of views about life that you find alien and repulsive.

It's a dance where both of you build up an idea of each other, and can withdraw at any point with no face lost, no hurt feelings.

And it's a really useful skill in life! (and learnable too)

I really could do with a teacher

JuliusCaesar

socialanxietyireland.ie (I think it's .ie) might be a good starting point, or any CBT book about social anxiety, or even an online course of CBT - Aware runs one, and there are others: livinglifetothefull and there are others that I can't think of at the moment. (That's Cognitive Behaviour Therapy, not Computer Based Training)

bolopapa

OP other than having to read a book about meeting friend, just join a gym simple. Or a book club.
Of you can take up a waiter's/ bartender job for free maybe once in a week if you have the time. Bartending for free as done a lot i mean a lot in turning my social life around.

Skibunny77

OP, I automatically smiled when you said you don't have the sense of humour of a lamppost - that shows you have the ability to make people grin!

It sounds to me as though you have lots of lovely qualities, you grew up in a lonely environment and spent a lot of time on your own and in your own head. You still spend a lot of time in your own head - I have a feeling that when you are out in a group, you are constantly thinking about how awkward you sound, or how you can't think of anything to say etc. etc. that you are basically having a conversation with all of your own negative thoughts rather than really sitting with, being with and enjoying the company of other people. People may pick up on that and may be uncomfortable as a result. I have a few suggestions.

First of all CBT - via a good psychologist, preferably via GP referral to the Dean Swift clinics if you are in Dublin. A structured CBT programme may help significantly, psychotherapy at a later stage might help you resolve some of those lifelong issues, but to kickstart your confidence and social skills, CBT is recommended around addressing those negative thoughts. Secondly, mindfulness. A good mindfulness course will help you notice and put your social anxiety in context. At present, you can only see the negatives in your life. You've listed them all. Yet you have a range of interests, you're strong in what seems like a lonely life, you've built a successful career, you have good insight and write beautifully, you have taken the brave step of consulting a psychologist - now you have to fight for the changes you want to make. If a counsellor is telling you all is fine and you just need to get out there, you need to be honest and say you disagree. Practice hearing your voice. Whoever suggested the social anxiety group had a good thought, being able to share your experience with others who understand it is one of the lovely things about being alive and human, peer support is invaluable. There are also online social skills courses. I really wish you well OP and hope life becomes brighter for you.

aidanki

Skibunny77 wrote: »

OP, I automatically smiled when you said you don't have the sense of humour of a lamppost - that shows you have the ability to make people grin!

It sounds to me as though you have lots of lovely qualities, you grew up in a lonely environment and spent a lot of time on your own and in your own head. You still spend a lot of time in your own head - I have a feeling that when you are out in a group, you are constantly thinking about how awkward you sound, or how you can't think of anything to say etc. etc. that you are basically having a conversation with all of your own negative thoughts rather than really sitting with, being with and enjoying the company of other people. People may pick up on that and may be uncomfortable as a result. I have a few suggestions.

First of all CBT - via a good psychologist, preferably via GP referral to the Dean Swift clinics if you are in Dublin. A structured CBT programme may help significantly, psychotherapy at a later stage might help you resolve some of those lifelong issues, but to kickstart your confidence and social skills, CBT is recommended around addressing those negative thoughts. Secondly, mindfulness. A good mindfulness course will help you notice and put your social anxiety in context. At present, you can only see the negatives in your life. You've listed them all. Yet you have a range of interests, you're strong in what seems like a lonely life, you've built a successful career, you have good insight and write beautifully, you have taken the brave step of consulting a psychologist - now you have to fight for the changes you want to make. If a counsellor is telling you all is fine and you just need to get out there, you need to be honest and say you disagree. Practice hearing your voice. Whoever suggested the social anxiety group had a good thought, being able to share your experience with others who understand it is one of the lovely things about being alive and human, peer support is invaluable. There are also online social skills courses. I really wish you well OP and hope life becomes brighter for you.

your right on the out in a group thing

have you any links to a mindfullness course

I have registered for the social anxiety group

online social skills course, Ive never seen anything advertised, have you any links please

btw Im in Limerick rather than dublin which is a pity, if you know any therapist in Limerick that I should attend please feel free, use PM if you think thats the right thing to do