Home automation & future-proof wiring

hexosan

Have electricians on site and I'm beginning my wiring. I'm interested to heard what people's opinions are on home automation or what extra wiring should be ran to the TV points in the house.

Down the line when funds recover id like to be able to watch movies from a central point on all TV's, control the heating and connect my alarm and cctv into the system and control it from an app on the phone.

At the moment Ive two cat 6e and two coax to each TV point ran back to the attic

BarneyMc

My electrician is on site also and will have a TV appear today/tomorrow to suss out what's the best setup for me regarding Saorview reception and whether I'll need a satellite, etc.

I'm still a bit in the dark about a central point hub/switch that feeds out to the tv points throughout the house. Does this enable sharing of devices like media boxes, SKY, broadband, etc. Hopefully the TV guy will throw some light on the situation.

stickybookmark

hexosan wrote: »

Have electricians on site and I'm beginning my wiring. I'm interested to heard what people's opinions are on home automation or what extra wiring should be ran to the TV points in the house.

Down the line when funds recover id like to be able to watch movies from a central point on all TV's, control the heating and connect my alarm and cctv into the system and control it from an app on the phone.

At the moment Ive two cat 6e and two coax to each TV point ran back to the attic

That'll take care of your TV but if you want to be able to play movies from a hard-drive you'll also need a dedicated HDMI cable running from your media room to the TV(s). In my house the 'media room' is going to be in the utility room so it'll be where I'll have e.g. a hard drive with all my downloaded movies/box sets.
Another thing to consider is getting the electrican to put a HDMI socket on the wall next to the TV i.e. spec 1.4HDMI cable from your TV to a local access point on the wall in the same room as th TV (to allow you to plug in a laptop or games console etc locally) this is becasue HDMI ports on flush mounted flat screen TVs can be hard to access

Calahonda52

BarneyMc wrote: »

My electrician is on site also and will have a TV appear today/tomorrow to suss out what's the best setup for me regarding Saorview reception and whether I'll need a satellite, etc.

I'm still a bit in the dark about a central point hub/switch that feeds out to the tv points throughout the house. Does this enable sharing of devices like media boxes, SKY, broadband, etc. Hopefully the TV guy will throw some light on the situation.

nothing like u own satellite:)

if u are going to put any cctv stuff on the tvs in the house u need to spice in to the analogue feed from the saorview aerial before u spit it for the TV so just think about where that might happen, maybe in the comms room

BarneyMc

stickybookmark wrote: »

That'll take care of your TV but if you want to be able to play movies from a hard-drive you'll also need a dedicated HDMI cable running from your media room to the TV(s). In my house the 'media room' is going to be in the utility room so it'll be where I'll have e.g. a hard drive with all my downloaded movies/box sets.

Good point and this is what I must do. What lengths do HDMI cables come in - they can't be cut.

stickybookmark wrote: »

Another thing to consider is getting the electrican to put a HDMI socket on the wall next to the TV i.e. spec 1.4HDMI cable from your TV to a local access point on the wall in the same room as th TV (to allow you to plug in a laptop or games console etc locally) this is becasue HDMI ports on flush mounted flat screen TVs can be hard to access

I discussed this with my electrician also. I'm allowing for 4 HDMI sockets at the main tv points which seems to be the maximum amount tvs currently have.

BarneyMc

Calahonda52 wrote: »

nothing like u own satellite:)

if u are going to put any cctv stuff on the tvs in the house u need to spice in to the analogue feed from the saorview aerial before u spit it for the TV so just think about where that might happen, maybe in the comms room

:rolleyes: did I say that :eek:

I'm a bit lost with the details but he did mention being able to bring up the cctv stuff on the tellys so that angle must be covered also.

BarneyMc

I'm running ducts from the 3 main tellys on the ground floor back to the utility so that should help future proof the system.

I'm setting up a 5.1 home cinema speaker layout in my main sitting room where the amp/receiver will sit. Is there merit in running any audio cables from this sitting room back to the utility or any other room where I might want to listen to music being played (in the main sitting room)?

BarneyMc

hexosan wrote: »

At the moment Ive two cat 6e and two coax to each TV point ran back to the attic

What will each of these be used for?

ted1

BarneyMc wrote: »

Good point and this is what I must do. What lengths do HDMI cables come in - they can't be cut.



I discussed this with my electrician also. I'm allowing for 4 HDMI sockets at the main tv points which seems to be the maximum amount tvs currently have.

No need for 4 at every point. Get an av system and it'll take several devices provide surround sound etc and only need one hdmi to the TV.

your sparks has demonstrated his poor knowledge of home automation and av systems.
Talk to the guys on the richer sounds forum

ted1

BarneyMc wrote: »

I'm running ducts from the 3 main tellys on the ground floor back to the utility so that should help future proof the system.

I'm setting up a 5.1 home cinema speaker layout in my main sitting room where the amp/receiver will sit. Is there merit in running any audio cables from this sitting room back to the utility or any other room where I might want to listen to music being played (in the main sitting room)?

Yes, a 7.1 system will have multi zones do you can output to different areas. You could have 5 speakers in one room and stereo in another .

BarneyMc

ted1 wrote: »

No need for 4 at every point. Get an av system and it'll take several devices provide surround sound etc and only need one hdmi to the TV.

your sparks has demonstrated his poor knowledge of home automation and av systems.
Talk to the guys on the richer sounds forum

So connect the tv to the receiver via HDMI and then connect multiple devices, e.g. media centre, DVD, etc. to the receiver separately using HDMI cables?

BarneyMc

ted1 wrote: »

No need for 4 at every point. Get an av system and it'll take several devices provide surround sound etc and only need one hdmi to the TV.

your sparks has demonstrated his poor knowledge of home automation and av systems.
Talk to the guys on the richer sounds forum

Thanks, I didn't know such a forum existed. I've left some questions here.

hexosan

BarneyMc wrote: »

What will each of these be used for?

No exactly sure yet.

Can a cat 6e cable not be used to extend a hdmi cable ??

BarneyMc

hexosan wrote: »

No exactly sure yet.

Can a cat 6e cable not be used to extend a hdmi cable ??

Not dodging the question (well I am!) but according to this article there is only officially CAT6a (not CAT6e) and it's really only beneficial for 10Gbps tranmission for stretches between 50m and 100m whereas the CAT6 can only deliver 10Gbps up to 50m. Do you have stretches greater than 50m?

dubrov

For UK channels, you'll need a satellite dish with two coaxial feeds running directly to each TV point to allow recording.
For Saorview, you'll need an aerial with a single cable to each TV point. This signal can be piggybacked on one of the satellite feeds so you only need two coaxial feeds in total. I'd install 3 to allow for future cable faults.

There is no need to run a HDMI cable from an AV room to each TV point. It can all be done over your network (CAT cable).

Your Internet service Provider will provide a router/modem which is the centralised point through which your internet comes in. Ideally this will be in your AV room.
Any devices that connect to this (wirelessly or wired) can connect to the internet and also internally share information with each other.

Connect a media server (or any device that can act as a DLNA sever) to the router (probably best through a wired connection in your AV room) and connect your TV to the router via your CAT cable. Here is an example with 4TB storage included although the reviews are mixed:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/WD-Cloud-Personal-Storage-NAS/dp/B00FOKN7D8/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1435298424&sr=8-3&keywords=dlna+server#customerReviews


Just make sure your TV is DLNA compliant which almost all TVs are nowadays (it will be in the specs). The TV will then be able to play any media files (pictures\music\video) stored on the media server. In fact, your TV will be able to play media files from any device connected to your router (laptop, phone etc.). You'll also be able to transfer files from your laptop wirelessly to the server.

All the other functions you mentioned can also be controlled over you network providing you get the right kit. E.g. your heating controller is connected to your network. Your phone then connects wirelessly to the same network and can control it.

BarneyMc

This is the best advice I've gotten so far - concise, practical and easy to understand!

dubrov wrote: »

For UK channels, you'll need a satellite dish with two coaxial feeds running directly to each TV point to allow recording.
For Saorview, you'll need an aerial with a single cable to each TV point. This signal can be piggybacked on one of the satellite feeds so you only need two coaxial feeds in total. I'd install 3 to allow for future cable faults.

I'm just a mile from the Armagh border so can get all UK and Irish channels via Freeview and Saorview. Should I still install 2 coaxial feeds to be able to take on satellite if ever needed? Also is the 2nd coax a good idea for recording on Saorview boxes?

dubrov wrote: »

There is no need to run a HDMI cable from an AV room to each TV point. It can all be done over your network (CAT cable).

Your Internet service Provider will provide a router/modem which is the centralised point through which your internet comes in. Ideally this will be in your AV room.
Any devices that connect to this (wirelessly or wired) can connect to the internet and also internally share information with each other.

This 'AV room' will be my utility. So run 1 CAT6 cable for each tv and computer point in bedrooms, sitting rooms, etc. back to the AV room?

For my home cinema amp/receiver I assume this should physically sit in my main sitting room and not the AV room but if I have 2 spare channels i.e. I just use 5 speakers on a 7.1 system, then I could bring 2 speaker cables back to the AV room? Or again, can this be done via CAT6 from the amp/receiver back to the AV room?

hexosan

What would be needed to turn on the house lights if the alarm or fire alarm activated

Calahonda52

hexosan wrote: »

What would be needed to turn on the house lights if the alarm or fire alarm activated

Most modern panels have different out puts, look over in
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=1366, Altor and Koolkid are two that know this stuff inside out+

jester77

I did this when building my house. Ran Cat7 duplex to all rooms, extra points in the office and where your media equipment is (I have 6 points here and they are all used). Don't forget to run to where you want phone connections and CCTV if that is something you want. You won't need power points as you can use POE. Don't forget about outside walls.

Also remember that you might need WiFi extenders. I placed a socket near the ceiling on the landing of the second floor (keeps the kids away) so that I could extend the wifi signal up to my bedroom on the 3rd floor. I only do light browsing up there, so don't need a full signal.

Also prewire where you want speakers in your house for different zones. I wouldn't bother with 4 HDMI ports, 1 is enough and run everything through the receiver. Will you want a projector in future? I placed a power point near the ceiling and left an empty conduit run to my AV unit instead of running HDMI, standards change.

For satellite I use a multiswitch and run 2 cables to all the bedrooms, and 4 to the main equipment points so I can have extra receivers.

dubrov

BarneyMc wrote: »

This is the best advice I've gotten so far - concise, practical and easy to understand!



I'm just a mile from the Armagh border so can get all UK and Irish channels via Freeview and Saorview. Should I still install 2 coaxial feeds to be able to take on satellite if ever needed? Also is the 2nd coax a good idea for recording on Saorview boxes?

You can split the Saorview/Freeview signal so only one cable is required for recording. You just need to make sure that the Saorview/Freeview box has two tuners to allow you to watch one channel while recording another. Best to run at least 2 cables though as they are cheap and you change you mind later or one might fail.

Freeview HD boxes will also pick up the Saorview channels so no need for a satellite dish. A lot of TVs now have Freeview HD with record built in so there would be no box clutter and only a single remote would be required.

BarneyMc wrote: »

This 'AV room' will be my utility. So run 1 CAT6 cable for each tv and computer point in bedrooms, sitting rooms, etc. back to the AV room?

You can run one per device or one per room and then split it using a network switch. the network switch will need to be plugged in though. If the devices are close enough to the router you could use wireless as well. These days wireless is more than quick enough for streaming needs.

BarneyMc wrote: »

For my home cinema amp/receiver I assume this should physically sit in my main sitting room and not the AV room but if I have 2 spare channels i.e. I just use 5 speakers on a 7.1 system, then I could bring 2 speaker cables back to the AV room? Or again, can this be done via CAT6 from the amp/receiver back to the AV room?

Generally you will need to connect the device that is playing the media file (TV, Freeview Box etc.) to the home cinema with an optical cable. Each speakers will then be fed with an audio cable which is connected to the home cinema box.
It would be a bit of a mess wiring all that up to an AV room so best to have the home cinema box in the actual room the speakers are.

The Richersounds guys are good but they are a business so there is an expectation that you will buy your equipment from them.
If you are souring your own equipment, you might get better answers in the Terrestrial forum.

stickybookmark

BarneyMc wrote: »

Good point and this is what I must do. What lengths do HDMI cables come in - they can't be cut.



I discussed this with my electrician also. I'm allowing for 4 HDMI sockets at the main tv points which seems to be the maximum amount tvs currently have.

Sorry I don't know what length they come in. I'm a bit surprised at the 4 HDMI sockets in the wall, I was only going to have 1 - think my electrican has only quoted for 1 as well.

stickybookmark

BarneyMc wrote: »

I'm running ducts from the 3 main tellys on the ground floor back to the utility so that should help future proof the system.

I'm setting up a 5.1 home cinema speaker layout in my main sitting room where the amp/receiver will sit. Is there merit in running any audio cables from this sitting room back to the utility or any other room where I might want to listen to music being played (in the main sitting room)?

I'm going to keep my database of music in the same place as my store of movies/box sets i.e. the comms room/media room which will be in a cupboard in my utility room. So I'll have cables going from here to the speakers in any room I want to play music. HTH

stickybookmark

Re this:
Originally Posted by dubrov

There is no need to run a HDMI cable from an AV room to each TV point. It can all be done over your network (CAT cable). .

So if I have a hard disk with all my movies, box sets etc saved on it in my comms room, I can 'send' this across to each TV through a CAT cable? I though it had to be a HDMI cable for this

dubrov

stickybookmark wrote: »

Re this:
Originally Posted by dubrov

There is no need to run a HDMI cable from an AV room to each TV point. It can all be done over your network (CAT cable). .

So if I have a hard disk with all my movies, box sets etc saved on it in my comms room, I can 'send' this across to each TV through a CAT cable? I though it had to be a HDMI cable for this

You'll need more than just the hard disk. You will need the following:

1) DLNA server. Pretty much all devices described as media servers or NAS devices can do this function but check the specs.
2) Storage for the media files. A USB hard drive will do this although some devices already have inbuilt storage.
3) A DLNA compliant client device to play the movies/pictures/music on. Almost all TVs sold today are DLNA compliant - check the specs.
4) Connection between the DLNA server (media server / NAS) to your home network (router) either wirelessly(WiFi) or wired(LAN cable)
5) Connection between the DLNA client (TV) to your home network (i.e. to your router) either wirelessly(WiFi) or wired(LAN cable)

There are also loads of phone apps out there which will allow you to control the DLNA client and server from your phone (e.g bubbleUPnP on Android). For example, you can browse the DLNA server media on your phone and decide to play a particular film on your bedroom TV provided they are all connected to the same network.

Several DLNA clients can also access media files on a single DLNA server simultaneously.

stickybookmark

dubrov wrote: »

You'll need more than just the hard disk. You will need the following:

1) DLNA server. Pretty much all devices described as media servers or NAS devices can do this function but check the specs.
2) Storage for the media files. A USB hard drive will do this although some devices already have inbuilt storage.
3) A DLNA compliant client device to play the movies/pictures/music on. Almost all TVs sold today are DLNA compliant - check the specs.
4) Connection between the DLNA server (media server / NAS) to your home network (router) either wirelessly(WiFi) or wired(LAN cable)
5) Connection between the DLNA client (TV) to your home network (i.e. to your router) either wirelessly(WiFi) or wired(LAN cable)

There are also loads of phone apps out there which will allow you to control the DLNA client and server from your phone (e.g bubbleUPnP on Android). For example, you can browse the DLNA server media on your phone and decide to play a particular film on your bedroom TV provided they are all connected to the same network.

Several DLNA clients can also access media files on a single DLNA server simultaneously.

Because I'm in a rural area I don't want to be too dependent on the internet so I prefer not to connect to things using the internet if I can connect to them with a simple cable. So to me I'd like
a) something storing all my films/tv in utility room
b) a cable to connect this to each TV downstairs (3)

Do I have to involve the internet for this?

dubrov

stickybookmark wrote: »

Because I'm in a rural area I don't want to be too dependent on the internet so I prefer not to connect to things using the internet if I can connect to them with a simple cable. So to me I'd like
a) something storing all my films/tv in utility room
b) a cable to connect this to each TV downstairs (3)

Do I have to involve the internet for this?

You don't need an internet connection at all. It would all happen on your internal network. Your router would just not have the internet connected.
If you later added an internet connection, this would become available to all connected devices.

Some routers actually have in-built DLNA server functionality and you could directly connect a Hard Drive via USB. Something like this would work:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/RT-AC66U-AC1750-Diamond-Dual-Band-Gigabit/dp/B00DYT2MPK/ref=sr_1_6?&ie=UTF8&qid=1435327223&sr=8-6&keywords=dlna+server+router

Richersounds.ie: John

dubrov wrote: »

The Richersounds guys are good but they are a business so there is an expectation that you will buy your equipment from them.
If you are souring your own equipment, you might get better answers in the Terrestrial forum.

Maybe a little unfair - we have been on boards with our own dedicated commercial forum since 1998 under myself and we have never once been accused of bias in any of our posts - maybe 'hope' would be a better word to use than 'expectation'? And to be fair to Brian who responded to the OP's query, bar a speaker cable, and 1 example speaker to show the OP how to wire a speaker ( bi or single wire) Brian didn't even mention a single specific product or price - not exactly a hard sell.

We honestly do try to assist ANYONE who posts on our forum, its a tough commercial world out there so we are realistic but there is NEVER any expectation - we do appreciate that Customers can pick our brains and then shop local or online for whatever products they require but have always tried to offer Boardies good advice and if advice gets to quote - then we have a price beat guarantee should anyone ever beat our price - you can review our forum and I'm pretty sure you will find very few posters ( if any) who have come back and said that we have given poor advice or sold them the wrong product.

But yep, DO go everywhere, shop around, ask lots of questions, twiddle lots of knobs and if at all possible listen to systems, experience is even better than unbiased advice!

Thanks and keep us posted if we can ever assist,

ATVB,

John Mc & Crew
Richer Sounds Ireland