Refund on used car

jojomc

I bought a used car 5 weeks ago. I was driving up the Rd today and white smoke starting blowing out the exhaust and engine. I pulled over and there was a huge rattle. Turned engine off and there was oil leaking out of bottom of car. Recovery truck came and brought it to my local mechanic.
He informed me. The timing chain has slipped due to a loose nut. (I have no clue about cars).
He also said that, had the car been serviced this loose nut would have been noticed. I bought the car and was told it was serviced and put through NCT.
The dealer is coming to collect the car and give me a courtesy car.
My question is..
Can I demand a refund?
I don't want this car anymore and I don't want another car from this dealer. I don't trust either.
Any advise would be much appreciated.
I have 3 months warranty.
The car is 05 BMW 116i
Thanks in advance

bazz26

Have you contacted the dealer about getting them to fix it under warranty? Was it not inspected by a mechanic at the time of purchase?

savagethegoat

I'd say you wont get a refund. You have 3 months warranty which will no doubt cover the engine. Why did you just not get it shipped direct to the dealer?

jojomc

Yes the dealer has said he will fix it. My issue is.. he had said it was serviced .. but my mechanic maintains it wasn't. If it had been serviced then this wouldn't have happened.

jojomc

The dealer said that his low loader driver was away. So I had to get my insurance Co. To recover car and they would only take it somewhere local.

Jayop

jojomc wrote: »

Yes the dealer has said he will fix it. My issue is.. he had said it was servuced .. but my mechanic maintains it wasn't. If it hadn't been serviced then thus wouldn't have happened.

Your mechanic could be talking out of his backside too tbf. The amount of back street mechanics that try to make themselves look good by crapping over other garages work is mind boggling.

If the car was bought from a main dealer (doesn't matter the make) then they should be able to show invoices for the service if it was performed there. Even internal sales work generates an invoice at big dealers.

Sleepy

What "serviced" means varies from mechanic to mechanic, nevermind from garage to garage. To some, it means changing the oil and oil filter, to others it means a through check of the car and replacement of any part that looks even close to the end of it's lifetime. It certainly isn't a legally protected word so you've no case for a refund. Let them repair it under whatever warranty you have and if you still don't want the car after that, prepare to take a loss on it when you sell it on.

jojomc

Jayop wrote:

If the car was bought from a main dealer (doesn't matter the make) then they should be able to show invoices for the service if it was performed there. Even internal sales work generates an invoice at big dealers.

Jayop wrote:

Your mechanic could be talking out of his backside too tbf. The amount of back street mechanics that try to make themselves look good by crapping over other garages work is mind boggling.

My mechanic has never done me wrong or overcharged me. He's someone that I do actually believe.
I'm concerned that the dealer will say he's fixed the car but won't actually repair it properly. As he said that he serviced but seems he didn't.
I have voiced my concerns to the dealer and he has said he will get me a different car if I want.
Like I said I have zero faith in the car or dealer. And I would like my money back to go elsewhere and buy something else. But am I entitled to a refund?

jojomc

Sleepy wrote:

What "serviced" means varies from mechanic to mechanic, nevermind from garage to garage. To some, it means changing the oil and oil filter, to others it means a through check of the car and replacement of any part that looks even close to the end of it's lifetime. It certainly isn't a legally protected word so you've no case for a refund. Let them repair it under whatever warranty you have and if you still don't want the car after that, prepare to take a loss on it when you sell it on.

Even under warranty and Sale of Goods Act. I have no case for refund?
I have to let him repair it and "suck it up"
I feel that it could have been a very dangerous. Had I been driving at night. I wouldn't have seen the smoke!!

savagethegoat

i doubt a service would turn up a "loose nut" which might cause a timing belt to slip. Very unlikely any garage would check this in a service as it is probably not visible without removing a cover or two.

jojomc

savagethegoat wrote:

i doubt a service would turn up a "loose nut" which might cause a timing belt to slip. Very unlikely any garage would check this in a service as it is probably not visible without removing a cover or two.

So this is something that could have easily happened to any car? My apologies but I am a dimwit when it comes to this sort of thing.
And some other scaremonger told me that the car will never run right again?

Sleepy

You wouldn't be entitled to a refund. He may give you one out of goodwill or simply to get you to stop wrecking his head if you're the sort who can persistently nag someone enough that they'll do what you want just to get rid of you. I'm not a lawyer but he wouldn't be under any legal obligation that I'm aware of to give you a full refund on the price of the car when you've had it for over a month.

For all anyone knows, or more importantly can prove, the nut only came loose during that time-frame. For example, because you were driving too quickly over potholes and "shook it loose" etc.

jojomc

Sleepy wrote:

You wouldn't be entitled to a refund. He may give you one out of goodwill or simply to get you to stop wrecking his head if you're the sort who can persistently nag someone enough that they'll do what you want just to get rid of you. I'm not a lawyer but he wouldn't be under any legal obligation that I'm aware of to give you a full refund on the price of the car when you've had it for over a month.

So you're saying if I nag him he will give me my money back.. problem solved 😀

Jayop

jojomc wrote: »

My mechanic has never done me wrong or overcharged me. He's someone that I do actually believe.
I'm concerned that the dealer will say he's fixed the car but won't actually repair it properly. As he said that he serviced but seems he didn't.
I have voiced my concerns to the dealer and he has said he will get me a different car if I want.
Like I said I have zero faith in the car or dealer. And I would like my money back to go elsewhere and buy something else. But am I entitled to a refund?

You'll not get a refund. The garage is entitled to repair the car if it's economically viable although if the engine is goosed then it might not be, or offer you an alternative car to the same or greater value.

I'd ask the garage to prove the car was services, show you the internal invoices from the date presale. Was it a BMW garage? If so then they will likely use the Kerridge POS system and once an invoice has been issued it cannot be doctored so you can trust that.

As for the standard of the service or whether they should have noticed a loose nut I don't know.

Let the garage offer you repairment and see if they offer you a good deal before you go taking it further. Most main dealers will try to satisfy you because their reputation is very important. If they can't satisfy you then go from there.

jojomc

Sleepy wrote:

You wouldn't be entitled to a refund. He may give you one out of goodwill or simply to get you to stop wrecking his head if you're the sort who can persistently nag someone enough that they'll do what you want just to get rid of you. I'm not a lawyer but he wouldn't be under any legal obligation that I'm aware of to give you a full refund on the price of the car when you've had it for over a month.

Sleepy wrote:

For all anyone knows, or more importantly can prove, the nut only came loose during that time-frame. For example, because you were driving too quickly over potholes and "shook it loose" etc.

I can do the nagging thing.. no problem 😀
And "shook it loose" really?? 😕

Jayop

jojomc wrote: »

So this is something that could have easily happened to any car? My apologies but I am a dimwit when it comes to this sort of thing.
And some other scaremonger told me that the car will never run right again?

That was scaremongering. If the car is repaired properly it'll be fine. Although if the timing slipped the engine could be totalled. A replacement second hand engine would be the most likely fix if that's the case.

jojomc

It wasn't a BMW dealer no. But a dealer that's been around a long time. It's seems that make and model of car seems to have issues with its timing chain.
"I think I'm gonna need a bigger boat"
So obviously a refund is a no go here.
I really don't want a car with a new engine.
I think I'll have to get a completely different make and model.
Thank you very much for the sound advice.

Vic_08

jojomc wrote: »

So you're saying if I nag him he will give me my money back.. problem solved 😀

That would very much depend on they person involved. Some will respond to annoying customers by giving in and getting rid of them others will (quite rightly) take the opposite tack and refuse to be bullied into giving someone something they are not entitled to.

You are entitled to the car being repaired up to the condition it was in previously or a replacement with a car equal to your one or a refund, the choice is the retailers and it would normally be in that order.

Mechanical components fail, maybe it could have been prevented by the dealer but just because your mechanic says so doesn't mean that is the case. I am not an expert on BMW engines but I am skeptical of this nut that should have been tightened in a service. If a visually accessible nut is obviously loose then it should be dealt with but no service will involve checking every part is attached to the correct torque.

The dealer has a warranty (and sale of goods act) to honour and as long as he does that properly then you really have no valid complaint, as he is collecting the car and giving you a temporary replacement it would appear that he is going about it correctly.

If the car is repaired you are of course free to get it checked out by your own mechanic or an independent mechanic and returning to the dealer if you are not satisfied the car has been put back into the condition it should be in.

Jayop

jojomc wrote: »

It wasn't a BMW dealer no. But a dealer that's been around a long time. It's seems that make and model of car seems to have issues with its timing chain.
"I think I'm gonna need a bigger boat"
So obviously a refund is a no go here.
I really don't want a car with a new engine.
I think I'll have to get a completely different make and model.
Thank you very much for the sound advice.

Like I said. Go meet with them, speak to someone in charge if possible. Ask to see the service manager to go though the service record. If you're happy that they didn't lie to you after that then give them the chance to make it better.

It's possible that they could offer you a slightly bigger car and ask you to pay something towards the difference. Don't be closed minded to that kind of deal if it works for you in the long run, and alternatively don't allow yourself to be put into a car you're not happy with.

drunkmonkey

There's no service in the country going to check every nut and bolt on an engine, your trusted mechanic is talking out his exhaust.
If there replacing the engine or fixing the belt if possible you'd want a 6/12mt engine and gearbox warranty off them.
It just one of those unlucky things nobody set out to deliberately wreck the engine and no service would have picked it up.

And if there swapping the engine see will a bigger one fit in without much modification, maybe a 1.8?

jojomc

Thank u all for your comments and wise words.
It seems that the dealer is going about this in the correct way.
If the engine needs to be replaced. I do not want the car.
I have no idea what kind of car I would go for as I quite liked this car up until today.
At this moment in time the dealer has been quite flexible and accommodating, even offering me a car of my choice!
I wouldn't mind a bigger engine but I do like the size of the BMW.
If I could go to sleep tonight and wake up in the morning with the right car that looked nice and was mechanically sound with a little bit of power I'd be happy. Oh to be a child at Xmas again. Lol.
Will update tomorrow.

Jayop

jojomc wrote: »

Thank u all for your comments and wise words.
It seems that the dealer is going about this in the correct way.
If the engine needs to be replaced. I do not want the car.
I have no idea what kind of car I would go for as I quite liked this car up until today.
At this moment in time the dealer has been quite flexible and accommodating, even offering me a car of my choice!
I wouldn't mind a bigger engine but I do like the size of the BMW.
If I could go to sleep tonight and wake up in the morning with the right car that looked nice and was mechanically sound with a little bit of power I'd be happy. Oh to be a child at Xmas again. Lol.
Will update tomorrow.

Good on you for going about it the right way. Don't be taken for a ride but it sounds like the dealer is being genuine.

drunkmonkey

120d is a swift car if he can get you one of those. Tbh there nothing wrong with a 3 series either if your not set on a hatch. You'd probably get more toys with one.

Here's a list of the engines.. http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/reviews/facts-and-figures/bmw/1-series/hatchback-2004/

jojomc

UPDATE:
The dealer was supposed to bring me a car and take BMW away.. this has not happened.
He has now informed me that his low loader driver will be back from holidays on Monday. He has said that he will have a courtesy car to me before then. He keeps telling me he will ring back in half hr and never does.. so I am left ringing him.
I feel like he is taking the piddle!
He could have just said in the beginning he wouldn't be able to get a car to me till Monday. He is still insisting he will have car for me today. He gave me reg of courtesy car 2 days ago so I could change my insurance. I haven't done this.
Now what do I do??????

drunkmonkey

Go collect the loan car and let him collect the busted car at his leisure.