Pet dogs inside places serving food

Dubl07

Hi

Anyone know what the legislations and/or by-laws are relating to the above?

I get told by a good few pubs that they'd love to allow dogs but that the health inspectors would cast a cold eye. It's a pity because it would be a real boon to the UK/European tourist trade now that dogs can travel freely with their passports & vaccinations. I'm on a couple of UK forums where they lament the lack of dog-friendly establishments over here.

rock22

Dubl07 wrote: »

Hi

Anyone know what the legislations and/or by-laws are relating to the above?

I get told by a good few pubs that they'd love to allow dogs but that the health inspectors would cast a cold eye. It's a pity because it would be a real boon to the UK/European tourist trade now that dogs can travel freely with their passports & vaccinations. I'm on a couple of UK forums where they lament the lack of dog-friendly establishments over here.

Not sure I would agree. certainly I would not eat anywhere pets were allowed and I don't know anyone else who would.

Oink

That's all I could find:

"Many local authorities have introduced bye-laws to indicate areas where dogs must be kept on a leash or even prohibited. "

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/environment/animal_welfare_and_control/control_of_dogs.html

Couldn't find the relevant bye-laws.

Drexel

rock22 wrote: »

Not sure I would agree. certainly I would not eat anywhere pets were allowed and I don't know anyone else who would.

What exactly do you think is goina happen if there is a dog sitting by it's owners feet while he has dinner?

Dubl07

rock22 wrote: »

Not sure I would agree. certainly I would not eat anywhere pets were allowed and I don't know anyone else who would.

That's your prerogative however substantial numbers of Irish and tourists have dogs and like their company. I take it you wouldn't eat in the home of anyone with a pet?

Dubl07

Oink wrote: »

That's all I could find:

"Many local authorities have introduced bye-laws to indicate areas where dogs must be kept on a leash or even prohibited. "

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/environment/animal_welfare_and_control/control_of_dogs.html

Couldn't find the relevant bye-laws.

It all seems a bit vague and "shrugged-shoulders, shure-what-can-you-do" to me.

Pat Mustard

Dubl07 wrote: »

Hi

Anyone know what the legislations and/or by-laws are relating to the above?

I get told by a good few pubs that they'd love to allow dogs but that the health inspectors would cast a cold eye. It's a pity because it would be a real boon to the UK/European tourist trade now that dogs can travel freely with their passports & vaccinations. I'm on a couple of UK forums where they lament the lack of dog-friendly establishments over here.

https://www.fsai.ie/legislation/food_legislation/food_hygiene/introduction.html

coylemj

jonny666 wrote: »

What exactly do you think is goina happen if there is a dog sitting by it's owners feet while he has dinner?

The dog will immediately start barking as soon as another dog enters the premises and/or he will start running around the place like children tend to do in McDonalds and he will scare the bejaysus out of the minority of people (not including me) who are scared or terrified of loose dogs. And when the owner is asked to keep him under control, he will give the standard response: 'sure he wouldn't hurt a fly'.

Then you have the Neanderthals who go around with seriously scary dogs who, even on a leash, would scare the crap out of 99% of the population.

I don't want to see dogs in restaurants, thanks all the same. Guide dogs obviously excluded.

Dubl07

coylemj wrote: »

The dog will immediately start barking as soon as another dog enters the premises and/or he will start running around the place like children tend to do in McDonalds and he will scare the bejaysus out of the minority of people (not including me) who are scared or terrified of loose dogs. And when the owner is asked to keep him under control, he will give the standard response: 'sure he wouldn't hurt a fly'.

Then you have the Neanderthals who go around with seriously scary dogs who, even on a leash, would scare the crap out of 99% of the population.

I don't want to see dogs in restaurants, thanks all the same. Guide dogs obviously excluded.

I'm not suggesting every part of every restaurant; just those whose owners are sensible enough to know that permitting a well-behaved dog is a draw. Many smaller pubs in the UK have resident dogs and/or cats as well as the odd parrot. Dogs are a hell of a lot better behaved than "kids in McD's", not least because they get kept on leads for the most part and don't get fed fizzy drinks.

Dubl07

Pat Mustard wrote: »

https://www.fsai.ie/legislation/food_legislation/food_hygiene/introduction.html

Sorry, Pat. I can't see the relevant parts of that legislation relating to dogs in a food-serving situation. I know there are EU rules regarding having animals on the prep side (kitchen and store) but dining areas seem to be exempt as far as I know.

whippet

I’ve spent the last couple of summer holidaying in france and there was nothing unusual about going out for lunch and seeing a couple of tables with dogs lying at the owner’s feet. Didn’t bother anyone. Just like children some are well behaved and some are not, some are under the control of their parents and some are not …. Nothing wrong with a well behaved dog and owner in a restaurant. If the restaurant can’t control its clients (with dogs, kids or drunken louts) it wouldn’t be a place I’d want to frequent either.

And as for the snipe ‘sure he wouldn’t harm a fly’ .. I can be sure that my hound wouldn’t hurt a fly in public as he is under my control all the time. If he wasn’t under my control I can’t say for sure what he would do .. but then again that is an issue about owners not dogs

Carawaystick

rock22 wrote: »

Not sure I would agree. certainly I would not eat anywhere pets were allowed and I don't know anyone else who would.

I've ate in lots of places with aquariums. and there were lots of other diners there. Why wouldn't you?

whippet

Carawaystick wrote: »

I've ate in lots of places with aquariums. and there were lots of other diners there. Why wouldn't you?

some people can be a little irrational when it comes to making choices and holding beliefs .. sure didn't a generation live in the fear of eating meat on a friday for fear of eternal damnation.

dilallio

As long as there's fresh Lobster in the Aquarium, then I can assure you it's quite safe.

syklops

Carawaystick wrote: »

I've ate in lots of places with aquariums. and there were lots of other diners there. Why wouldn't you?

I've eaten in lots of places that allowed dogs. Never had any issues. The more socialising dogs get the better they are at coping in busy places like restaurants or pubs. Its when they are tied up outside and never brought anywhere, they are more likely to go berserk at the site of another dog.

Pat Mustard

Dubl07 wrote: »

Sorry, Pat. I can't see the relevant parts of that legislation relating to dogs in a food-serving situation. I know there are EU rules regarding having animals on the prep side (kitchen and store) but dining areas seem to be exempt as far as I know.

I didn't follow those links to their conclusions, tbh. The essential bluffer's answer which I had attempted to impart was that I suppose that having animals on premises where food is prepared/served would be in breach of food hygiene regulations. I haven't looked into it.

Dubl07

Pat Mustard wrote: »

I didn't follow those links to their conclusions, tbh. The essential bluffer's answer which I had attempted to impart was that I suppose that having animals on premises where food is prepared/served would be in breach of food hygiene regulations. I haven't looked into it.

Bluffing aside, I can't find anything, anywhere to say that having a dog in an area of a premises where food is served is in any breach of general legislation. In areas where food is prepared or stored, yes.

I don't, as a customer with two legs, wander into the kitchen, pantry or cold store either and wouldn't anticipate doing so with a canine.

syklops

Dubl07 wrote: »

Bluffing aside, I can't find anything, anywhere to say that having a dog in an area of a premises where food is served is in any breach of general legislation. In areas where food is prepared or stored, yes.

I don't, as a customer with two legs, wander into the kitchen, pantry or cold store either and wouldn't anticipate doing so with a canine.

MVP in Dublin 8 welcomes dogs but AFAIK, they dont serve food, just drinks.

Victor

Oink wrote: »

That's all I could find:

"Many local authorities have introduced bye-laws to indicate areas where dogs must be kept on a leash or even prohibited. "

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/environment/animal_welfare_and_control/control_of_dogs.html

Couldn't find the relevant bye-laws.

They mean streets and parks, not pubs and restaurants.

whomitconcerns

coylemj wrote: »

The dog will immediately start barking as soon as another dog enters the premises and/or he will start running around the place like children tend to do in McDonalds and he will scare the bejaysus out of the minority of people (not including me) who are scared or terrified of loose dogs. And when the owner is asked to keep him under control, he will give the standard response: 'sure he wouldn't hurt a fly'.

Then you have the Neanderthals who go around with seriously scary dogs who, even on a leash, would scare the crap out of 99% of the population.

I don't want to see dogs in restaurants, thanks all the same. Guide dogs obviously excluded.

How is this not a problem in most of Europe then? And in the US?

Peregrinus

This is more a cultural issue than a legal one; it's down to attitudes to animals. There's no law against allowing dogs, etc, into a restaurant or bar, but owners may decline to allow them either because (a) they don't like it themselves, or (b) they expect a material proportion of their actual or potential customers won't like it.

Similarly, there's no general law covering the point in the UK, but dogs are mostly not allowed. Being the UK, this is commonly ascribed to EU regulations, but there is no foundation for this. The Kennel Club campaigns for more premises to welcome dogs.

In the US, the law varies by state or even by locality. Some jurisdictions ban animals outright, others will allow pet-friendly premises subject to additional regulations (and fees!) which may discourage business owners. Still others have no law on the subject.

On the European mainland, attitudes vary. Dogs are commonly allowed in cafes and restaurants in France and Germany, except perhaps the more up-market ones. Practice in Italy is mixed. It's unusual to allow dogs in restaurants in Spain or Portugal.

slimjimmc

Could there be other factors not just cultural, such fear of litigation or conditions from insurance?

Peregrinus

slimjimmc wrote: »

Could there be other factors not just cultural, such fear of litigation or conditions from insurance?

Well, these would be cultural factors, surely? If an Irish restaurant owner fears litigation, he thinks "if I allow the dog in, and if the dog attacks someone, I may get sued for allowing an animal to be on the premises and not under proper control". But of course a French restaurant owner could think exactly the same thing, and with exactly the same justification. The fact (if is a fact) that Irish restaurant owners typically do think like that and French restaurant owners typically don't is a cultural phenomenon, surely?

As for conditions from insurance, possibly. But (unless somebody has better information) we can only speculate that insurance policies bar pets from restaurants, etc. I'm not aware that they usually do.

MarkAnthony

I'd love to visit a place where the dogs are serving food, just for the novelty.

Pat Mustard

I misread that as a place where dogs are served as food. :pac:

goz83

jonny666 wrote: »

What exactly do you think is goina happen if there is a dog sitting by it's owners feet while he has dinner?

Its very common to see dogs in restaurants in Spain, especially outdoors. I am speaking from experience in Torrevieja (Alicante). Though i will never wipe from my memory the vision of an Alsation spilling his brown stuff onto the hot tiles in the outer seating area of the restaurant. I haven't returned since and I didn't pay for my half eaten fry either.

arthur daly

My local allows pets once food is finished and the pet is clean and well behaved.

People say they wouldn't eat where's there's pets so how does that work if at a friend's house?? Sorry I won't eat you have a pet!!

I would rather have my well behaved gsd beside me than screaming kids or some ignorant chap bellowing on the phone but I guess that's just me

Victor

arthur daly wrote: »

People say they wouldn't eat where's there's pets so how does that work if at a friend's house?? Sorry I won't eat you have a pet!!

Presumably one pet, one household and one set of infectious diseases and you can decide whether your friends standards are acceptable or not..

A restaurant with animals (two or four-legged) is a whole other matter, with no fore-knowledge on what the diners' standards are. Some people just don't know how to control themselves or their pets.

With restaurants and other food drink establishments, you need rules in place for public health reasons.