Landlord threatening me with bills

KieraMetzy

Hi, myself and a group of friends (students) rented a holiday home there a while ago. Now just because we're students doesn't mean that I'm unjustly think we're being treated harshly so please read on.

There was a substantial deposit on this place and in my mind it would cover any accidental damage in the case that we would lose it and lose it we did. I'm not bitter about that because well, there were a couple of things that I'd be pissed off at if it was my house. What I mean is one guy threw up a bit on the floor beside his bed. He's quite the tidy guy so by no means did he leave a mess. He did his very best to clean up the mess and to be honest by the time we were leaving it was practically unnoticeable. I still expected to lose the deposit over that, after all it's fair enough.

Now for the last couple of days of the holiday I had to return home to work so I left the place in the care of my friends. I got a call the morning they left from a very aggravated landlady about how the beds had been urinated in and an unacceptable amount of rubbish had been left behind (six refuse bags for a house of thirteen rented for a week). While I'll never know what happened, I know these people and I doubt they wet the beds but really who knows. Certainly it was the product of drunkenness and not at all malicious. She claims that the mattress protectors were urinated through and that the mattresses had to be replaced. Plausible but I find it hard to believe it happened and that the mattress protectors failed so badly.

One thing I know (and I perfectly understand how stupid it was, I'd personally slap someone for doing this) that happened was that some water was hoovered up and quite rightly it did damage to the hoover. Again, fine, that alone should forfeit the deposit.

Lastly there seemed to be some issue with dirt on the ceiling, which I believe to have been the product of a couple of Champagne bottles.

Now the landlady has (understandably) told me that the deposit is forfeit. She now says that I must compensate her for two new mattresses, associated bedclothes, mattress protectors, paint for the ceiling, removal of rubbish, the hire of two cleaners, a new hoover.
Here's where I'm a bit worried and unsure. First of all, it's right that the deposit, which was over three hundred euro, should cover the hoover and ceiling. That's fair and I'm actually quite ashamed that this went on. The deposit well covers this and I believe that it covers the damage for the one duvet that I know was damaged. This lady though wants to bill us even further, threatening action if we don't pay.
The removal of the rubbish I don't understand and I just don't know how the mattresses were soaked through if they had protectors on them. I understand this to just be a bit of a misunderstanding though, for she claims that there is an unmistakable smell of urine in two of the rooms (I'd be more inclined to believe it is a cocktail of the remnant of the vomit and perhaps sweating, the house was very warm).

There's also the messy matter of the ESB cost. It, for the week, came to 72 euro, however she says that this cost comes out of the deposit. One thing though is that initially we'd overpaid by one hundred euro (my mistake) which she now claims to be part of the deposit. Even if we lose the deposit, shouldn't this hundred still more than cover ESB costs?

Now I know that few are likely to believe me, I'm a student, but that's the God's honest truth of what I know and even with the information there I'd like if someone could answer my question:
Am I obligated to pay the bills that this woman is issuing me? Should the deposit no cover this? Has she the right to claim that extra hundred we paid as part of her deposit. If no, then can that be used to pay for the ESB cost instead?

I want to stress that absolutely none of this damage was intentional. Careless yes, malicious, no. What do I do? I don't want any of the money back, I just want to leave this whole mess behind me and not be chased after for costs I can't afford and believe I don't justly have to pay.

Thanks to whoever got to the end.

the_syco

KieraMetzy wrote: »

I want to stress that absolutely none of this damage was intentional.

Who signed the lease, and have you talked to the rest since?

Stheno

Also have you asked your friends what went on while you weren't there the past few days, and why the landlady is making these claims?

Sarn

Regardless of whether or not the damage was intentional, the damage was still done. You need to have a word with your friends to find out what went on at the end.

Mattress protectors won't stop urine going through them unless they are plastic lined.

Ultimately she will need to provide receipts for anything she claims.

MarkAnthony

She'll need reciepts but expect an angry enough landlord to summons you. Don't ignore it if they do. In the mean time I'd pay up personally.

MouseTail

I presume you rented the house in your name as the LL has your contact details, and you transferred the cash. The deposit doesn't near cover the damage that was done here. How much does she want for the damage, and are your friends likely to share the cost with you?

KieraMetzy

the_syco wrote: »

Who signed the lease, and have you talked to the rest since?

It was all done through rent.ie so I assume I checked some box or agreement online. I've talked to them all. I can definitely confirm that one of the girls hoovered up water (dear God am I pissed off about that). They all claim ignorance about the urination so I really couldn't know.

One of the other girl's parents went down to pick her up and according to him all was well so I really don't know. They also all say that the local person who manages the house was happy with them after a walk about the house so I really am unsure.

She says that upon payment she'll provide receipts.

Ah this is so stressful!

Stheno

KieraMetzy wrote: »

It was all done through rent.ie so I assume I checked some box or agreement online. I've talked to them all. I can definitely confirm that one of the girls hoovered up water (dear God am I pissed off about that). They all claim ignorance about the urination so I really couldn't know.

One of the other girl's parents went down to pick her up and according to him all was well so I really don't know. They also all say that the local person who manages the house was happy with them after a walk about the house so I really am unsure.

She says that upon payment she'll provide receipts.

Ah this is so stressful!

HOw many of you were in the house for the week?

KieraMetzy

Stheno wrote: »

HOw many of you were in the house for the week?

13, though some arrived late or left early.

Stheno

KieraMetzy wrote: »

13, though some arrived late or left early.

How big was the house ?:eek:

professore

Welcome to the adult world.

KieraMetzy

Stheno wrote: »

How big was the house ?:eek:

It was a very nice house, it slept 13.

Stheno

KieraMetzy wrote: »

It was a very nice house, it slept 13.

Well for the moment I'd agree that you've no choice but to pay up, and request receipts.

For a week, if all of that damage was done, it's fairly excessive.

You'll have to ask your friends if they are willing to split the extra cost, you'll be looking at at least twice the deposit that you'll be asked to pay I'd imagine.

Key thing for you from this, is that if you are the named renter, don't leave people to run amok in your absence.

As it was a holiday let for a week, I don't think the PRTB applies here.

handlemaster

I stopped reading after the OP said his adult friends pissed in their beds.... Really ...

KieraMetzy

handlemaster wrote: »

I stopped reading after the OP said his adult friends pissed in their beds.... Really ...

It's unlikely that they did, that's the point of this post. I've known them for a long time and while I can't be 100% certain, I'm pretty sure it's a misunderstanding. Either way, thanks for the advice guys.

El_Duderino 09

OP you admit the damage except the wet bed whish you weren't there to confirm, and you're looking for ways to avoid paying for damage?

Seriously read your own post. It's full of admission of guilt followed by irrelevant details which you seem to think should make it less expensive. My favourite was Guy vomed on the floor and half arsed cleaned it up (but he's a clean guy in general). So what if he's usually clean. I bet his vomit is fairly smelly now that it's still in the carpet.

Students or not you damaged the floor, hoover, (beds maybe). Left rubbish behind. It sounds like you have a fairly high tolerance for filth and low regard for other people's property.

Expensive life lesson. Be sure to get receipts to make sure you don't pay any more than you owe but rest assured that you now owe money on account of your behaviour

I thought this was a leg pull when I read it but I think you might actually be serious. You thrashed the ladies house and now you must pay up. Simple. Next time cop yourself on.

Electric Sheep

Well, what was the arrangement supposed to be for the rubbish? Was it made clear that you were responsible for disposing of it, or were bins provided?

Would it be possible to get in touch with the person who did the satisfactory walk through and get some clarification?

It sounds a bit like your friends decided to have a "trash the gaff" party in your absence, TBH.

KieraMetzy

KieraMetzy wrote: »

It's unlikely that they did, that's the point of this post. I've known them for a long time and while I can't be 100% certain, I'm pretty sure it's a misunderstanding. Either way, thanks for the advice guys.

I believe the landlady. Why should the damage stop with vomit?

Wolff

So aside from the vomit, the piss, ruined beds, house overflowing with rubbish, damaged ceiling from champagne corks (now there is a first world problem) water damaged hoover and excessive sweating, not to mention an electricity bill that a grow house would be proud of, yep I think your landlady may a have a point in looking for damages - expecially as its coming into peak season

I especially like the wonderful, its not a smell of piss - its a mix of sweat and puke, brilliant - ah to be a student again - pay up !

I recall another thread some time ago where a student was complaining bitterly because a home owner cancelled a holiday let when they discovered that the party was made up of students, several under 18 and without a credit card to guarantee the deposit....

Now I understand.

professore

When I started college many moons ago, the first week I was in Dublin my flatmate and good friend decided to have a party and invited some friends from his journalism year in Rathmines.

At its peak there were about 200 people crammed into the flat, and a journo student who is now a household name pissed in my friend's bed and told the next door neighbour to f**k off, whereupon she called the gardai. A few things got broken but in hindsight we got off lightly. If you let other people in a house you're on the hook for, don't expect them to respect it.

Still, I got off with a hot girl, so every cloud and all that ...

sunnysoutheast

KieraMetzy wrote: »

She says that upon payment she'll provide receipts.

I'd reverse that sequence of events, but otherwise it sounds like you're on the hook for it.

Grab All Association

A few years ago me and my ex rented a place down the south east for a few days. Renter tried to claim we caused some damage. I asked her to email me the photos of the damage we supposedly caused and she did. What she didn't expect was photos back with a copy of the days Irish Examiner in every photo of all the rooms I took the morning we left the place. She never emailed me back.

Electric Sheep

sunnysoutheast wrote: »

I'd reverse that sequence of events, but otherwise it sounds like you're on the hook for it.

I agree - she should be reimbursed for the expense, but AFTER you have proof that the repairs and cleaning were actually done.

And in future I am sure you will know better than to take responsibility for the behavior of your "friends" when you are not there. It is nasty of them to put you in this position.

Stheno

Electric Sheep wrote: »

I agree - she should be reimbursed for the expense, but AFTER you have proof that the repairs and cleaning were actually done.

And in future I am sure you will know better than to take responsibility for the behavior of your "friends" when you are not there. It is nasty of them to put you in this position.

Agreed, it's the friends I'd be annoyed with here.

foggy_lad

KieraMetzy wrote: »

It was all done through rent.ie so I assume I checked some box or agreement online. I've talked to them all. I can definitely confirm that one of the girls hoovered up water (dear God am I pissed off about that). They all claim ignorance about the urination so I really couldn't know.

One of the other girl's parents went down to pick her up and according to him all was well so I really don't know. They also all say that the local person who manages the house was happy with them after a walk about the house so I really am unsure.

She says that upon payment she'll provide receipts.

Ah this is so stressful!

House was inspected and found to be in good order so you should tell the auld wan to sling her hook

Electric Sheep

foggy_lad wrote: »

House was inspected and found to be in good order so you should tell the auld wan to sling her hook

Well, the OP has no proof of that, I think? "They also all say that the local person who manages the house was happy with them after a walk about the house so I really am unsure."

They may all say that, but without an email or something in writing, that does not help the OP. They all said they didn't harm the beds too. That is why I think OP should get in touch if possible with the person who did the walk through, though I guess by now that will be just closing the barn door.

Live and learn - there are plenty of landlords in the US who have had to deal with this sort of behavior from J1 students.

the_syco

KieraMetzy wrote: »

It was all done through rent.ie so I assume I checked some box or agreement online. I've talked to them all. I can definitely confirm that one of the girls hoovered up water (dear God am I pissed off about that). They all claim ignorance about the urination so I really couldn't know.

I'm sure you'll hear that;
a) they have no money, as they're students
b) the house was grand
c) they never signed any lease
d) they know "their rights" and won't pay anything

Sadly, you may lose a few friends, but you will lose a chunk of cash.

Oh, and get receipts. Ensure the dates make sense, and that anything without receipts you don't pay for. Of course, don't tell them this until after the person has "bought" the beds.

Electric Sheep

the_syco wrote: »

I'm sure you'll hear that;
a) they have no money, as they're students
b) the house was grand
c) they never signed any lease
d) they know "their rights" and won't pay anything

Sadly, you may lose a few friends, but you will lose a chunk of cash.

Oh, and get receipts. Ensure the dates make sense, and that anything without receipts you don't pay for. Of course, don't tell them this until after the person has "bought" the beds.

I hope that the OP did not pay the deposit out of her own pocket, that at least that was split 13 ways.

I would also go back to the rent.ie site and check the terms and conditions of the rental. It would seem to me that the electric bill and the rubbish removal should have been included in the rent, and if they were not it should be specified. 6 bags of rubbish does not sound out of line for 13 people on a week's stay. Unless of course the six bags of rubbish were empty bottles and cans left all over the house for the owner to pick up and dispose of. I would also check that the house was specified to sleep 13, or if the students decided it could sleep 13 if they crammed people on every surface not intended for sleeping and the owner was unaware.

athtrasna

Expensive lesson to learn but if your name in on the lease, you need to be the last person to leave because you will be the fall guy if your friends let you down. Sorry OP!

Ronin247

Ask very specifically which two beds were pissed in...... hand that bill to the relevant piss artists.
We went on a stag do in Westport and one of the houses rented was uninhabitable when we got there, from the smell of urine throughout from the previous renters, it beggars belief that people think it is ok to not clean up after themselves.

Electric Sheep

Ronin247 wrote: »

Ask very specifically which two beds were pissed in...... hand that bill to the relevant piss artists.
We went on a stag do in Westport and one of the houses rented was uninhabitable when we got there, from the smell of urine throughout from the previous renters, it beggars belief that people think it is ok to not clean up after themselves.

And water hoover woman should be paying for the new hoover. I think you are going to have to push back a bit with your co-renters and not let them walk all over you. It really does sound like perhaps you are the "sensible" one of the group and they are taking advantage

ETA: I wonder if it was water she was vacuuming, or whether she was trying to vacuum the pee out of the beds!

percy212

TWO beds pissed in? I have a feeling this is going to be a large bill!

daheff

I wouldnt be paying full whack for new stuff. I'd imagine that the hoover/beds were already used by the time you used them. As such I'd be looking to only part pay for replacements (wear & tear etc). An Insurance policy wouldnt normally pay new for old, so why would you?

Also remember to keep the actual receipt...not a photocopy ...the landlady would probably try to claim those expenses against her taxes otherwise

Starokan

Something like this is never easy to solve, I'd suggest going to meet with here and try come to a compromise.

I work in cleaning myself and your big problem here will be whether she books an entire house clean or just cleans the affected areas, big big difference in price.

Champagne stains on the ceiling would be relatively simple to remove, it should not need a full coat of paint. There are companies that specialise in full mattress cleaning so they would not need to be replaced, it would be a cheaper alternative to buying new ones. The carpet that was vomited upon would have to be cleaned in full as any patch cleaned alone would look absurd.

If you had a 300 deposit and overpaid by 100 euro then you have 400 euro to begin with.

The hoover must be replaced, you need the make and model so you can determine the price, I am assuming 120 max unless its a dyson or similar, take out your esb 72 and whats remaining ( I would guess in or around 200 euro) then will go towards cleaning.

Read what you signed, if you are not required to remove rubbish then you do not have to pay. If you do then it would around 20 euro for the dump plus labour for whomever brings it.

I think you should speak with her, I would certainly be discussing the areas that need to be cleaned. If a person employed by the landlord walks through the house and passes it as ok then there is room for negotiation and compromise.

I believe the person who walked through was either incompetent or was just doing the landlord a favour, they clearly did not look into the issues in detail. This gives you room to negotiate, however it is most unlikely that the landlord is making any of this up, you know your friends did it and it would be very wrong to leave the landlord to pay. Talk to your friends, try get them to contribute 20 euro each.

If you add 260 to the 400 660 should in my opinion cover all.

jmayo

When I was a student we didn't have such problems.
I mean we never hired holiday homes for a week long party and we definetly never damaged anything with champagne.

Some spilled bulmers maybe, but someone usually mopped it up and squeezed the remnants into a class.
Ah those were the days.

OP have you ever heard the adage "Experience is what we call our mistakes" ?

Your first one was being the muppet (sorry if that is offensive, but it is the best description I can find for making this type of error in judgement) that signed or setup the rental that was going to involve 13 other people, nevermind the fact they are students.
Your second one was to compound the first by actually trusting them and leaving before the rental was up.

Sorry, but you are on the hook for this and your only hope is shaming the rest into paying.
I can just imagine you will get the line it wasn't me, it was someone else or someone that someone hooked up with that we didn't know.

A few things stand out ... apart from the puke, sweat and urine smells of course.
I presume there was some place to put rubbish rather than leave it in bags in house ?
Also were all the champagne bottles just dumped or did anyone have the decency to drop them to bottle bank ?
What type of eejit thought it was a good idea to vacumm up water (or most likely urine) ?
Possibly a future darwin award winner I would guess.

Anyway you need to ensure you get valid receipts for any work necessary and replacements.
Normally I wouldn't be that believeing of landlords (past experiences prove me right usually), but in this case I get the feeling that the landlord is not trying to screw you, only fix their property.

BTW if you get stiffed for this by the others then find some new friends.

faceman

I know Ireland is expensive but €72 for a week's worth of electricity??? Have you seen the bill yourself OP?

Electric Sheep

Starokan has given you the most useful advice of the thread.

In the end, the negotiation experience you get from this whole affair may end up being worth a lot more to you than the money you will be out.:)

Lux23

Ask for receipts and then pay, I am assuming the landlady is waiting to fix/clean up to get the money but unfortunately for her that is not how this works. I have a feeling that the lot of you are responsible for the damage but I wouldn't pay over the odds either.

irish_dave_83

She cant just take the 100 euro btw this should be returned, and I'm surprised that electricity is not included in the rent, same with the rubbish collection, so you should check that out in the lease.

Other than that, I imagine that there is a duty of care to the property on the part of the tenants. It seems like a lot of damage for only one week, so you would have to pay after you get the receipts.

Del2005

Many years ago a group of my friends did a fair bit of damage to another friends parents house at a party. The person who's house was damaged asked everyone who was at the party who did the damage and amazingly none admitted to destroying his property and he had been in the house when the damage occurred. You left a few days before the others and have no idea what happened after you left, 12 people drinking for a couple of days can do a lot of damage.

If possible try to get back to the rental to meet the landlady or at least get pictures of the damage and make sure that the people who caused the damage reimburse you. And next time you rent somewhere if you put your name down be last person out the door after inspection or taking loads of photos or video of you walking the building and locking the door.

Jayop

faceman wrote: »

I know Ireland is expensive but €72 for a week's worth of electricity??? Have you seen the bill yourself OP?

Probably a set fee before hand. I know any time I've rented a holiday home in Ireland they always sting you for a set daily/weekly electric charge when you arrive. It's normally separate from the cost of renting though. I've never had to pay a deposit for a short term holiday lease.

I feel really sorry for the OP, but if the crime was done then it looks like you need to pay. As has been said I'd find out specifically which bed's were wet and get those clowns to pay and hoover girl should fork out for that. The rest would likely be covered by the deposit, and if not split it among all the guests.

If any of them don't pay then cut them off from your friends list if they think it's cool to leave one innocent party on the hook for the whole thing.

paulheu

KieraMetzy wrote: »

I want to stress that absolutely none of this damage was intentional.

Sure.. It comes down to your definition of intentional, but you lot certainly got intentionally wasted and whatever else so bottom line and IMO you should/could have fully expected this to happen.

Mrs OBumble

Whether it was intentional or not is irrelevant. It happened, and is exactly what the deposit is for.

OP, good luck with getting your friends to pay their share of the bill, and with making new friends to replace the ones who don't.




NB are short term holiday rentals covered by normal rental rules? I thought that they were usually a licence to occupy situation, and so I'm not even sure that the OP is even entitled to see receipts.

SteM

Any short-term holiday rentals I've ever done have either had the electricity included in the price or have had an a agreement that it was extra to be billed when we were leaving. Don't see how electricity bill could have been so high and why you're being charged for it if it was never specified when you made the rental agreement.

As for the rubbish, it sounds like your group left an excessive amount behind but that should be written into the rental agreement too I would have thought.

Everything else you should have to pay for on on receipt of a bill imo.

daheff

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

NB are short term holiday rentals covered by normal rental rules? I thought that they were usually a licence to occupy situation, and so I'm not even sure that the OP is even entitled to see receipts.

If the OP is being asked to pay bills then they would have an entitlement to see receipt. Would you pay a bill with having seen a receipt?

Mrs OBumble

daheff wrote: »

If the OP is being asked to pay bills then they would have an entitlement to see receipt. Would you pay a bill with having seen a receipt?

If I had rented a property, and my so-called friends had then p*ssed in the beds, then I would be so mortified that yes, I think I would pay the owner's assessement of the damage.

Chris___

Chris___ wrote: »

A few years ago me and my ex rented a place down the south east for a few days. Renter tried to claim we caused some damage. I asked her to email me the photos of the damage we supposedly caused and she did. What she didn't expect was photos back with a copy of the days Irish Examiner in every photo of all the rooms I took the morning we left the place. She never emailed me back.

So what did she email you? Was it old photos of damage??

daheff

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

If I had rented a property, and my so-called friends had then p*ssed in the beds, then I would be so mortified that yes, I think I would pay the owner's assessement of the damage.

I'm be more worried the renter was taking the p*ss with me.

OP didnt do the damage, so has no need to be embarassed because of it.

daheff

daheff wrote: »

OP didnt do the damage, so has no need to be embarassed because of it.

It was her party and she took responsibility for them. Yes, she should be embarrassed for her own reputation and she should reach a quick accommodation with the renter. You don't get pernickety in cases like this when you are so obviously in the wrong.