Sprint Training

harringtonp

Have always recognised that I have never been a sprinter so had not bothered too much with sprint training or trying to get up in race finishes.

Am noticing more and more though that lack of a sprint is causing me problems in other race areas:

- hard to jump off the front without taking the bunch
- hard to catch on to others trying to jump.

Basically I'm looking to improve 5-15 second sprints and am wondering whether the 1) or 2) approach below is more effective ?

1) Endurance training (Z2) with a small number (e.g. 6) of all out sprints with long rests in between

2) Endurance training (Z2) consisting of an hour with short 5-10 second sprints every 3 minutes.

In 2) above max power attained will obviously be less than 1)

Also for winter gym work what typical exercises/machines if any have real benefit ? Standard leg press machine comes to mind.

Derrydingle

What's your sprinting like after taking a corner do you lose ground there too or are you ok?

harringtonp

I'll catch back on but not as quick as others.

There is usually some wheel to get on to but if not I'll close the gap myself ... it just a little longer than most others.

outfox

Joe Friel recommends 2 or 3 different sprint training sessions. One consists of several 10-15 s sprints at race intensity, with at least 5 min between. Another involves 3-5 sets of short sprints (say 12 revolutions of cranks), 5 sprints per set, with 5 min between sets, and 1 min between sprints in each set. I found them good, and can now survive the surges.

crashoveroid

For me Sprint training is one of my Favorite things to do. The way i was shown has always worked well for me.

Its normally increased over a six week period from 10 seconds to 20 seconds.
One set of sprints for me is 5 sprints they are done in a 53x19 and from a standing start. Leave one minute in between sprints. For each set you can judge the rest in between.

Week 1 2x5 10 seconds
Week 2 3x5 10 Seconds
Week 3 3x5 15 Seconds
Week 4 4x5 15 Seconds
Week 5 4x5 20 Seconds
Week 6 4x5 20 Seconds

Just my 2 cents as you have get on top of the gear to really getting going helps with the explosive power.

Pawlie

What crashoveroid has stated, its burns like hell but very much worth it, Id recommend thou going with 53 x 15/14 doing the sets, and only when the gradients rises slightly.

morana

there is loads you can do but if you aren't doing any then you definitely wont improve your sprinting.

I used to do 2 sprints at the end of every session. these would be normally against another rider who could sprint well. We used to slow down to under 10kph and then jump. the gap between was only a few seconds and they were usually 100-150m. it worked well for us. Another one was 10 sec sprint 1 min rest and do a few sets. Cant remember exactly how many. Also pay attention to the gears you are using if they are too low you will spin out too big and its very hard to get the gear going.

harringtonp

Thanks guys, plenty of useful tips here to put some good training sessions together.

yop

We've done a few variation. Mentioned above.

On a Wednesday spin we go in twos. First 2 will sprint for 20 seconds, then the next set of two cyclists and so on.
You will get maybe 2 to 3 minutes break. We've done 6 or 7 sets of these. but some lads manage 2 or 3 sets.
Another is to do 3 or 4 sets of 30 second flat out sprints, then have a 5 minute break between.
Another is to do a 5 second sprint, 15 second rest, 5 second sprint, 15 second rest and 5 second sprint. You can do 2 sets of these per spin.
Obviously only do these once or twice per week.

Harrybelafonte

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abHnNGLt-AU

harringtonp

crashoveroid wrote: »

For me Sprint training is one of my Favorite things to do. The way i was shown has always worked well for me.

Its normally increased over a six week period from 10 seconds to 20 seconds.
One set of sprints for me is 5 sprints they are done in a 53x19 and from a standing start. Leave one minute in between sprints. For each set you can judge the rest in between.

Week 1 2x5 10 seconds
Week 2 3x5 10 Seconds
Week 3 3x5 15 Seconds
Week 4 4x5 15 Seconds
Week 5 4x5 20 Seconds
Week 6 4x5 20 Seconds

Just my 2 cents as you have get on top of the gear to really getting going helps with the explosive power.

Hi crashoveroid,

Did 2 sets of these this morning, they will take a little getting used to. By "standing start" presume you mean from almost stopped ?

And do you do them on or out of the saddle ? Stomps which are what these sound like are normally done seated, is that correct ?

I did a set each way to compare and for each sprint stopped only when I hit max speed. Found that when out of the saddle it was only a little longer than 10 seconds but when in the saddle it was 20 or more seconds before getting up to speed. Also noticed that I generate a lot less wattage than when sprinting from normal speed but I presume this is not important.

When doing the drills should they be aerobically taxing with heavy breathing or is it purely about turning the legs (i.e. resistance) and breathing shouldn't get heavy ?

Pawlie

harringtonp wrote: »

Hi crashoveroid,

Did 2 sets of these this morning, they will take a little getting used to. By "standing start" presume you mean from almost stopped ?

And do you do them on or out of the saddle ? Stomps which are what these sound like are normally done seated, is that correct ?

I did a set each way to compare and for each sprint stopped only when I hit max speed. Found that when out of the saddle it was only a little longer than 10 seconds but when in the saddle it was 20 or more seconds before getting up to speed. Also noticed that I generate a lot less wattage than when sprinting from normal speed but I presume this is not important.

When doing the drills should they be aerobically taxing with heavy breathing or is it purely about turning the legs (i.e. resistance) and breathing shouldn't get heavy ?

Yes its starting from an almost static position, and only going for ten seconds where you should be well on top of the gearing towards the 10 sec mark, if you are not then the gearing is wrong and you need to adjust them,

Doing these sprint drills, you should notice that your heart rate goes right up over your threshold zone after you have hit the 10 second mark, you will notice this on what ever software you use.

It is aerobically very tough along with your muscles burning so you should be gulping in the air after each one to coincide with the amount of oxygen your muscles are looking for.

harringtonp

Pawlie wrote: »

Yes its starting from an almost static position, and only going for ten seconds where you should be well on top of the gearing towards the 10 sec mark, if you are not then the gearing is wrong and you need to adjust them,

Do you do them seated or out of the saddle Pawlie ?

Amprodude

harringtonp wrote: »

Do you do them seated or out of the saddle Pawlie ?

I'm no expert here but from my experience on same topic, I have found it better to do the sprints while seated but that's just my experience. I feel more of a burn that way.

crashoveroid

harringtonp wrote: »

Hi crashoveroid,

Did 2 sets of these this morning, they will take a little getting used to. By "standing start" presume you mean from almost stopped ?

And do you do them on or out of the saddle ? Stomps which are what these sound like are normally done seated, is that correct ?

I did a set each way to compare and for each sprint stopped only when I hit max speed. Found that when out of the saddle it was only a little longer than 10 seconds but when in the saddle it was 20 or more seconds before getting up to speed. Also noticed that I generate a lot less wattage than when sprinting from normal speed but I presume this is not important.

When doing the drills should they be aerobically taxing with heavy breathing or is it purely about turning the legs (i.e. resistance) and breathing shouldn't get heavy ?

Hi

Sorry for the late reply been offline all weekend.

You should do these out of the saddle and no more then what is planned.
You should start these from an almost complete stop and near the end you should be on top of the gear spinning fast.

With heart rate i find it keeps rising after the effort for a few seconds just your body catching up.

In terms of power what you should get from these is explosive power close gaps as well being able to attack and get a gap.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

Pawlie

harringtonp wrote: »

Do you do them seated or out of the saddle Pawlie ?

All sprint efforts out of the saddle dude

harringtonp

Did "Week 2 3x5 10 Seconds" yesterday evening, a few observations:

- Session felt right
- No "burn" as first few seconds are heavy resistance to get the wheels turning leaving only a few seconds of fast spinning.
- Heart rate does rise a bit but not enough to be gasping much.
- Compacted sessions into an hour and as the effort was resistance based it didn't feel too difficult and was enjoyable (pain free) compared to other sessions.
- Best to do while fresh however it is a session you could do day before a race as its not too taxing. Club racing this evening so will have more of an opinion on that tomorrow
- Essence of session feels similar to doing heavy weights in gym.

roosterman71

harringtonp wrote: »

Did "Week 2 3x5 10 Seconds" yesterday evening, a few observations:

What does the 3x5 10 seconds mean exactly?
I guess its 3 reps, and duration of 10 seconds. Whats the 5 then?

harringtonp

roosterman71 wrote: »

What does the 3x5 10 seconds mean exactly?
I guess its 3 reps, and duration of 10 seconds. Whats the 5 then?

See 5th posting in thread

Pawlie

harringtonp wrote: »

Did "Week 2 3x5 10 Seconds" yesterday evening, a few observations:

- Session felt right
- No "burn" as first few seconds are heavy resistance to get the wheels turning leaving only a few seconds of fast spinning.
- Heart rate does rise a bit but not enough to be gasping much.
- Compacted sessions into an hour and as the effort was resistance based it didn't feel too difficult and was enjoyable (pain free) compared to other sessions.
- Best to do while fresh however it is a session you could do day before a race as its not too taxing. Club racing this evening so will have more of an opinion on that tomorrow
- Essence of session feels similar to doing heavy weights in gym.

I reckon your gearing is wrong if it was only after a couple of seconds your on top of the gears, imo you should only be on top of gears in the last few seconds between second 7-10,

Its not a session you would do the day before a race, if done right and in the right gearing

lennymc

do people not change gear during a sprint if you get on top of a gear?
edit - i know I do. Also, cadence should be somewhere north of 120 rpm

harringtonp

Pawlie wrote: »

I reckon your gearing is wrong if it was only after a couple of seconds your on top of the gears, imo you should only be on top of gears in the last few seconds between second 7-10,

Its not a session you would do the day before a race, if done right and in the right gearing

By first few seconds I meant most of the 10, taking about 7 to get up to speed most times sounds about right.

Maybe I'm not doing it quite right but when I look at most of the sessions I do this would be one of the better ones before a race for me. Apart from the sprints and a quick warmup, the rest of the riding is Z1 so the overall work is quite low... the session TSS came out at 57 which is low.

I reckon if I was extending the sprints out to 15-20 seconds however, the effect would be quite different. But it is just the initial blast I am looking the train here.

lennymc

harringtonp wrote: »

But it is just the initial blast I am looking the train here.

your initial kick/explosivness?

harringtonp

lennymc wrote: »

do people not change gear during a sprint if you get on top of a gear?
edit - i know I do. Also, cadence should be somewhere north of 120 rpm

For a very short sprint I find a gear change breaks the rhythm. Checked max cadence during the stomps for me and all bar one were between 90-105. The one exception was one where I was accidentally in the small ring and I spun out at 116.

My cadence is naturally lower than others (age/slow legs..) but I suspect 90-105 is still a bit too low and I should probably try a lower gearing.

Any views on this guys, should you be ideally spinning as fast as your legs will go out of the saddle at the end of the interval ?

harringtonp

lennymc wrote: »

your initial kick/explosivness?

Yes

lennymc

a good range is critical for sprinting - if you are topping out at 105 rpm it's probably too low. You should try to go as fast as you can. I have seen 140 + in sprints, and the track guys cadence is just amazing in sprints (see video posted earlier). I suspect the track guys would be good ones to ask about your initial kick. Question - why do you only want to work on your initial kick? What sort of time frame are you considering as your initial kick - 1 second, 5 second, 10 seconds? When are you going to use it? Anyway, my understanding is that you need to be doing power stuff to increase your kick/explosiveness. Jumping up and down, squats, that kind of stuff. I could well be wrong tho.

harringtonp

lennymc wrote: »

a good range is critical for sprinting - if you are topping out at 105 rpm it's probably too low. You should try to go as fast as you can. I have seen 140 + in sprints, and the track guys cadence is just amazing in sprints (see video posted earlier). I suspect the track guys would be good ones to ask about your initial kick. Question - why do you only want to work on your initial kick? What sort of time frame are you considering as your initial kick - 1 second, 5 second, 10 seconds? When are you going to use it? Anyway, my understanding is that you need to be doing power stuff to increase your kick/explosiveness. Jumping up and down, squats, that kind of stuff. I could well be wrong tho.

The initial kick is the weakest part of my cycling so I am trying to put by one dedicated session a week to work on that. 10 seconds is what I have in mind as that should be long enough to create an initial gap when jumping, catch on easily when coming out of a corner or get on to the wheel of others who are jumping. The gym type stuff you mention is something I would have in mind for the winter to continue the power work and provide an alternative to the bike (but hey we're summer so no gyms for me just now).

I take your point on cadence and am convinced that I should use lower gears to try and get it higher even if it means less watts.

harringtonp

When it comes to speed work I do use other sessions as well but none of them have focused on pure power.

Actually a great Zone 6 interval for anaerobic endurance which I have used quite effectively is what I call 30ONOFF. This entails a 10 minute interval alternating 30 seconds ON with 30 seconds OFF. For the 30 seconds ON I aim to see an average power of 150% of FTP but usually start the 30 seconds riding hard out of the saddle (looking to hit about 250% FTP) and then quickly ease off, sit down and spin but still watch the Garmin enough to see I have clocked 150% FTP average by the end of the 30 seconds. For the 30 seconds OFF it is just about trying to get yourself together for the next ON.

In a 90 minute session I usually do a 10 minute effort at threshold and then 2 of these 10 minute 30ONOFF intervals. It is a knackering session but if you have a specific event in mind a couple of weeks of 2 of these sessions a week will really sharpen you.

Esroh

In a Sprint the aim is to get up to speed asap hold it as long as you can and reduce the speed decline caused by a natural fatigue process

If you take a 100m race Athletes are accelerating for 30m, 30-60 they are at full stride(reaching top speed). From then to 100m fatigue causes a natural shortening of stride and therefore a slowing. The best are those who can fight that natural process when your gone into anerobic state.

Using your example in a 10 second sprint . You get to top speed at 7 seconds but the guy beside you has got there in 3 to 5 and held it while you are only getting up to speed. That gap is the problem. You now have to hold top speed to catch him but have trained to actually ease off rather than fight thru.
If your after coming out of a corner yes you will close the gap but in a sprint for the line your to late

As you can see from the other posts Pawlie, Crash, Lenny are all using a different gear to get up to speed. You have to experiment to find whats yours.
Sprints sessions should put you in an Anerobic State. This should put you out of breath and cause a heart rate increase.

NB I am no expert this is just mu opinion .

Harrybelafonte

lennymc wrote: »

a good range is critical for sprinting - if you are topping out at 105 rpm it's probably too low. You should try to go as fast as you can. I have seen 140 + in sprints, and the track guys cadence is just amazing in sprints (see video posted earlier). I suspect the track guys would be good ones to ask about your initial kick. Question - why do you only want to work on your initial kick? What sort of time frame are you considering as your initial kick - 1 second, 5 second, 10 seconds? When are you going to use it? Anyway, my understanding is that you need to be doing power stuff to increase your kick/explosiveness. Jumping up and down, squats, that kind of stuff. I could well be wrong tho.

I'm with Lenny on this. If explosiveness is your weak point work on it. It's a lot to do with mentality and technique, pushing and pulling on pedals at same time etc... but I'm not a sprinter either, so these are just things I've to work on, y'know.

harringtonp

Just reread this thread and thought I'd resurrect it. Have completed crashoveroid's sprint program on page 1 twice now (last summer and this spring) and am trying to continue with one dedicated sprint session at least every 2 weeks.

Have found that 3 sets of 15s works best for me as it fits nicely into a lunch break and I can sustain intensity throughout the sets (where as with 4x20s the final 2 sets are considerably weaker). Learnt also that when out of the saddle max cadence is 100-110. This won't get higher with training so need to preselect gear for each sprint according to how the road ahead lies.

Question. Does anybody do a program on their own similar to this but seated and from a moving start and care to share details ?

Taxuser1

crashoveroid wrote: »

For me Sprint training is one of my Favorite things to do. The way i was shown has always worked well for me.

Its normally increased over a six week period from 10 seconds to 20 seconds.
One set of sprints for me is 5 sprints they are done in a 53x19 and from a standing start. Leave one minute in between sprints. For each set you can judge the rest in between.

Week 1 2x5 10 seconds
Week 2 3x5 10 Seconds
Week 3 3x5 15 Seconds
Week 4 4x5 15 Seconds
Week 5 4x5 20 Seconds
Week 6 4x5 20 Seconds

Just my 2 cents as you have get on top of the gear to really getting going helps with the explosive power.

I like this. I like it more on a gradient, standing start

Pukefest guaranteed. My father said that you're not doing it right if you're not sick.

crashoveroid

harringtonp wrote: »

Just reread this thread and thought I'd resurrect it. Have completed crashoveroid's sprint program on page 1 twice now (last summer and this spring) and am trying to continue with one dedicated sprint session at least every 2 weeks.

Have found that 3 sets of 15s works best for me as it fits nicely into a lunch break and I can sustain intensity throughout the sets (where as with 4x20s the final 2 sets are considerably weaker). Learnt also that when out of the saddle max cadence is 100-110. This won't get higher with training so need to preselect gear for each sprint according to how the road ahead lies.

Question. Does anybody do a program on their own similar to this but seated and from a moving start and care to share details ?

Glad the hear the sprinting is working well you found your groove.

From what i gathered from above if you want to do sessions seated it wont be 100% seated.

What i mean is making your sessions between 40 seconds to 2 min long.

Starting with a standing sprint for a few seconds and moving into the seat to finish the rest of the set

This is similar strategy but with a longer recovery period. You will need to go Full GAS.

Week 1 1x5 40 seconds
Week 2 2x5 50 Seconds
Week 3 2x5 60 Seconds
Week 4 2x5 75 Seconds
Week 5 2x5 90 Seconds
Week 6 2x5 120 Seconds

Now these will hurt but leave 5 to 7 mins in between for recovery. These work will aid in overall power output for short burst. If you have to get across a gap or going for the win in the last few mins of a race.

Any questions let me know.