concrete yard.

jimini0

Hi all I'm planning on re doing the yard. Old concrete is 25 years young. My plan is to concrete over this. What depth of concrete would ye recommend? Just a tractor with a bale on back would be the heaviest driving over it

farmerjj

If it was me I would put at least 5inchs down of 35n concrete, not sure about putting concrete on concrete, some people say it cracks but fellas on here might have more experience of doing it.

jimini0

farmerjj wrote: »

If it was me I would put at least 5inchs down of 35n concrete, not sure about putting concrete on concrete, some people say it cracks but fellas on here might have more experience of doing it.

Well the old concrete is cracked and sunk and gone in places so basically its just hardcore the new concrete will be going down on.

Miname

Put 5"s down on top of a rough sand blinding on top of a fine layer of 804. It'll never budge and handy to set up levels. Don't skimp on gullets and drains and make sure you've a decent depth at any points your ramping into existing levels even if it means lifting part of the old concrete.

dohc turbo2

The important thing with concrete is to have all what ur laying the same thickness , if it's not it will heat and cool differently and can crack

jimini0

Miname wrote: »

Put 5"s down on top of a rough sand blinding on top of a fine layer of 804. It'll never budge and handy to set up levels. Don't skimp on gullets and drains and make sure you've a decent depth at any points your ramping into existing levels even if it means lifting part of the old concrete.

I'm a bit tight on raising it up because the piece I want to concrete is running along a shed which has the crush against the outside wall and also has a 2 doors going into the shed. So I will get away with 5 inches of concrete on top existing concrete/rubble but that's the max. Or else I will have a sore head walking in and out.

jimini0

dohc turbo2 wrote: »

The important thing with concrete is to have all what ur laying the same thickness , if it's not it will heat and cool differently and can crack

To my shock when we took levels for drainage options the old concrete was actually pretty level. My ould fella told me that the shed and yard is build on boulders. Some are 3ft square so I'm not too worried about it sinking.

Miname

jimini0 wrote: »

To my shock when we took levels for drainage options the old concrete was actually pretty level. My ould fella told me that the shed and yard is build on boulders. Some are 3ft square so I'm not too worried about it sinking.

It's the soft spots alongside the solid spots that cause cracking. A continuous soft area will all move together (in theory) one solid bit in the middle will do the damage. Did you consider ash pelt it might be easier worked in your situation.

jimini0

Miname wrote: »

It's the soft spots alongside the solid spots that cause cracking. A continuous soft area will all move together (in theory) one solid bit in the middle will do the damage. Did you consider ash pelt it might be easier worked in your situation.

I should have mentioned where the soft areas are, will be dug up and that's where we will be running pipes and gulleys to and from.

Markcheese

Plenty of expansion joints so -

jimini0

Markcheese wrote: »

Plenty of expansion joints so -

I have plenty of those to go in. Got them cheap from a neighbour.

madmac187

I'm surprised no one has mentioned any steel reinforcement!!! I'm an engineer is all lol and I'd rip up existing concrete and put in hardcore under the proposed.

jimini0

madmac187 wrote: »

I'm surprised no one has mentioned any steel reinforcement!!! I'm an engineer is all lol and I'd rip up existing concrete and put in hardcore under the proposed.

To be honest the more I'm thinking about it. Its probably easier to rip up old stuff. And level out with stone and role it. Is there a need for steel mesh?

Bullocks

jimini0 wrote: »

To be honest the more I'm thinking about it. Its probably easier to rip up old stuff. And level out with stone and role it. Is there a need for steel mesh?

I'd just break it well , level with screenings and concrete away , use a few sheets of mesh in all of it if it doesn't wore out too dear

Miname

THere's absolutely no need for reinforcement mesh in a normal farm yard. It's your money though and a sheet of 393 works out at around ninety odd euro and it will take a fair few sheets to cover most yards. Go with fibre if you feel it's an issue 35n well put down will never move. I've yards done years and no issues.

jimini0

Miname wrote: »

THere's absolutely no need for reinforcement mesh in a normal farm yard. It's your money though and a sheet of 393 works out at around ninety odd euro and it will take a fair few sheets to cover most yards. Go with fibre if you feel it's an issue 35n well put down will never move. I've yards done years and no issues.

Jesus budget wont stretch to 90 a sheet. Would need 10 maybe more.

sea12

Miname wrote: »

THere's absolutely no need for reinforcement mesh in a normal farm yard. It's your money though and a sheet of 393 works out at around ninety odd euro and it will take a fair few sheets to cover most yards. Go with fibre if you feel it's an issue 35n well put down will never move. I've yards done years and no issues.

The fibre is about 5 euro a metre extra but is a great job.

jimini0

sea12 wrote: »

The fibre is about 5 euro a metre extra but is a great job.

I expected it to be alot more than 5. That's not bad price for it.

Miname

sea12 wrote: »

The fibre is about 5 euro a metre extra but is a great job.

Anything got recently was around 7 a metre around me. A lot of places weren't putting enough in so don't be shy if you can't see plenty through the concrete.

madmac187

Do it once and do it right, mesh it or fiber mesh it. It won't last otherwise and will end up doing it again 5 years time. You need to put something in anyway.

Miname

madmac187 wrote: »

Do it once and do it right, mesh it or fiber mesh it. It won't last otherwise and will end up doing it again 5 years time. You need to put something in anyway.

Concrete is plenty strong enough enough if laid properly I've a yard down twenty odd years hear and there isn't even a hairline on it. There's another yard in about eight years and no hassle with it either. Steel isn't needed in a yard, put fibre through it if your unsure but put simply a well laid yard with the right mix that hasn't been watered into soup will never crack.

Deepsouthwest

A lot of posters here with plenty of money I'd say! Is there going to be slurry/effluent on this yard? What area u talking about? 5" of 35N with mesh and hardcore rolled in underneath would nearly keep an artic up, and cost a fortune for just a tractor and bale.

madmac187

Miname wrote: »

Concrete is plenty strong enough enough if laid properly I've a yard down twenty odd years hear and there isn't even a hairline on it. There's another yard in about eight years and no hassle with it either. Steel isn't needed in a yard, put fibre through it if your unsure but put simply a well laid yard with the right mix that hasn't been watered into soup will never crack.

I was saying to do either, but you made a valid point about soup concrete, don't let them water it up and a poker is a must. Would silage effluent be near it ?

farmerjj

This is fast turning into a big job for just a tractor and bale. 5" of 35n concrete is plenty(once you get hard-core right)

Greengrass1

What is this fibre your talking about

Farmer Pudsey

Really I am suprised is 5'' enough I think 8'' and steel(not mesh, 1'' rebar with 6' onvrlaps tied to 3'' squares) some day you might want to park low loaders side by side with 40 ton track machines on them on it.

I wonder how many read the first post concrete disease is poor man's machinery disease. Ask your father what concrete was put in 25 years ago. I imagine that it was either mixed on the farm at 8-1 or a few loads of 5-1 was ordered from the local small readymix plant. This could have been no better than 8-1 depending on much haggling was going on on how good local plant was going was at the time. There was no testing back then. As well how may inches were put in the last time. 3'' would have been the norm. I imagine that a 390 MF will be the heaviest tractor going up on it.

Any broken bit did out to see if it is soft below there is a chance that the first lot was poorly laid and not whacked. Did out broken bits ( I am not sure if I even do that more than likely it has all settled) refill and use a whacker to pound in the fill.

3'' is plenty if level are tight you might get away with 2" but my preference would be 3". 30 or 35 newton and get them to add plenty of fibres. The reason for the fibres are two fold it will keep it togeather but also will slow down wear. Get it dryed out slowly ( do not lay it on a sunny day) keep it damp after laying and get it down dry( watch the driver he want to f@@k in water) get an extra lad to help. Get it jointed within 48 hours and fill the joints.

If what went in before lasted 25 years this will last at least that and I expect that it will be ok for 50 years with OP type of setup. Ashfelt would be an ok choice as well you could get 20 years out of it.

ellewood

madmac187 wrote: »

Do it once and do it right, mesh it or fiber mesh it. It won't last otherwise and will end up doing it again 5 years time. You need to put something in anyway.

I see where ur coming from BUT for a yard for tractor and bale is overkill
Meself and the ould Lad 20 years ago put down a yard maybe 60 ft × 30 ft mixed all the concrete with tractor mixer and the gravel was shifty with too much big stones in it And I can't imagine there was too many bags of cement bought either
It's only 2-3 inches deep either and the hardcore was stones picked off fields
It has had artic's on it 20 ton track machine on it bale trailer and even has had 2 of the big dung spreaders on it for loading with loader
There's not 1 expansion joint or anything like that

But without doubt the reason it has lasted is the foundation it's on its solid, if concrete can't move down it won't crack/break it's only when an area under the concrete giving away will the concrete over it crack

jimini0

Jesus lads this is turning into a massive job. 40 ton machines, artic trucks. I bloody wish.

jimini0

I only have a small suckler herd. No fancy slatted shed just straw bed. Mostly outwintered with maybe 3 cows house for a month or two over the winter. The yard is 20 metres long by 6 wide. Plus a 3 metre wide strip heading over to the bales. The concrete that was laid 25 years ago was mixed by hand. Maximum 3 inch. Don't know what strength. I'm not worried about sinkage cos there is boulders buried under the yard and shed as foundations. The only effulent that would be present is the small amount that comes out of a bale. I only ever open one at a time.