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Realistic Economy News thread

1356710

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 21,727 ✭✭✭✭Godge


    nice_guy80 wrote: »
    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/350m-to-be-spent-subsidising-families-in-low-paid-work-1.2273055

    That article basically points to the fact that most jobs created in the Irish economy over the past two years have been low paid jobs.


    New jobs post-recession are always created at the lower-paid end first.
    I can believe it. Another very pertinent point can be made by comparing the main jobs pages in any recent newspaper publication with the main jobs page in the same newspaper back in 2000. Back then, there were a lot more jobs for engineers, technicians and other skilled people in industry. Now the only high paid jobs are in the public sector/civil service. Recruitment firms advertise for engineers, technicians, etc to fill jobs in Dubai no doubt, but it is rare to find companies advertising directly for such positions anymore.

    It is never a good thing to see the state recruiting. At the end of the day, the taxpayer has to pay for everything.



    What a silly statement. Have you looked at irishjobs.ie and other online jobs portals? They have infinitely more jobs advertised now than in 2000.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 27,857 ✭✭✭✭Dave!


    I'm interested in the issue of low paying jobs – don't those tend to be in retail, services, etc*? So it would be an indication that those sectors are recovering if so.

    And is the research about new jobs that have been created over the last couple of years? Because many of the better paying jobs (e.g. IT) would not have been lost during the recession, so there isn't as much room to create those jobs as in other sectors.

    Wild theory :)

    * I'm speculating, I have no idea


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭realitykeeper


    Godge wrote: »
    What a silly statement. Have you looked at irishjobs.ie and other online jobs portals? They have infinitely more jobs advertised now than in 2000.

    Fair enough but this only explains half the phenomenon in question i.e. why the state advertises jobs in the national newspapers while all the major private sector employers evidently find it more sensible to use irishjobs.ie

    Indeed you may have highlighted a more sinister reality. Not only is the government intent on wasting taxpayers money and destroying the rain forests by advertising in print media but could they be doing it with the deliberate intention of influencing the newspapers to perpetuate the Good Economic News myth?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,723 ✭✭✭nice_guy80


    Fair enough but this only explains half the phenomenon in question i.e. why the state advertises jobs in the national newspapers while all the major private sector employers evidently find it more sensible to use irishjobs.ie

    Indeed you may have highlighted a more sinister reality. Not only is the government intent on wasting taxpayers money and destroying the rain forests by advertising in print media but could they be doing it with the deliberate intention of influencing the newspapers to perpetuate the Good Economic News myth?

    I think there are rules to do with public sector recruitment which means they must be advertised publicly - ie in national papers, so that all citizens have opportunity to apply

    it no longer applies to some sectors eg education
    teaching jobs no longer have to be advertised in papers
    schools can choose to do that if they want, in order to get a wider spectrum of applicants


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,368 Mod ✭✭✭✭andrew


    Fair enough but this only explains half the phenomenon in question i.e. why the state advertises jobs in the national newspapers while all the major private sector employers evidently find it more sensible to use irishjobs.ie

    Indeed you may have highlighted a more sinister reality. Not only is the government intent on wasting taxpayers money and destroying the rain forests by advertising in print media but could they be doing it with the deliberate intention of influencing the newspapers to perpetuate the Good Economic News myth?

    The state uses http://publicjobs.ie/publicjobs/


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 21,727 ✭✭✭✭Godge


    nice_guy80 wrote: »
    I think there are rules to do with public sector recruitment which means they must be advertised publicly - ie in national papers, so that all citizens have opportunity to apply

    it no longer applies to some sectors eg education
    teaching jobs no longer have to be advertised in papers
    schools can choose to do that if they want, in order to get a wider spectrum of applicants


    Correct, that is my understanding too. There are various rules and regulations about it.

    Indeed you may have highlighted a more sinister reality. Not only is the government intent on wasting taxpayers money and destroying the rain forests by advertising in print media but could they be doing it with the deliberate intention of influencing the newspapers to perpetuate the Good Economic News myth?

    You can find a conspiracy theory around every corner. Why didn't you just say it was a FG plot to keep up profits for Denis O'Brien's newspapers?


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,476 ✭✭✭ardmacha


    Indeed you may have highlighted a more sinister reality. Not only is the government intent on wasting taxpayers money and destroying the rain forests by advertising in print media but could they be doing it with the deliberate intention of influencing the newspapers to perpetuate the Good Economic News myth?

    So let me get this clear. You are using the number of jobs advertised in newspapers as an indication that things are not as good as in the past, but you are also complaining about the State advertising in newspapers?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,363 ✭✭✭KingBrian2


    People don't want to lose social benefits, that is why getting more than a part time job or volunteering is the key for a lot of jobseekers.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭realitykeeper


    ardmacha wrote: »
    So let me get this clear. You are using the number of jobs advertised in newspapers as an indication that things are not as good as in the past, but you are also complaining about the State advertising in newspapers?

    It is important to understand that when the state advertises jobs - that is not a good thing. It is bad news. When the states employs, it wastes money. Indeed, when the state does anything, it wastes money. Terms such as "spending targets" only exist in the twilight zone and the civil service.

    Another contributor "justified" the state using print media to advertise on the grounds that it was a "requirement", he just forgot to mention the requirement was put there by the state - how convenient. Like I said, the government`s use of print media to advertise looks suspiciously like an attempt to bribe the newspapers so they will print the government`s propaganda. You don`t have to be a conspiracy theorist to know a sucker when you see one.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,368 Mod ✭✭✭✭andrew


    It is important to understand that when the state advertises jobs - that is not a good thing. It is bad news. When the states employs, it wastes money. Indeed, when the state does anything, it wastes money. Terms such as "spending targets" only exist in the twilight zone and the civil service.

    You have the most deeply ironic username on this entire site.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,723 ✭✭✭nice_guy80


    It is important to understand that when the state advertises jobs - that is not a good thing. It is bad news. When the states employs, it wastes money. Indeed, when the state does anything, it wastes money. Terms such as "spending targets" only exist in the twilight zone and the civil service.

    Another contributor "justified" the state using print media to advertise on the grounds that it was a "requirement", he just forgot to mention the requirement was put there by the state - how convenient. Like I said, the government`s use of print media to advertise looks suspiciously like an attempt to bribe the newspapers so they will print the government`s propaganda. You don`t have to be a conspiracy theorist to know a sucker when you see one.

    to maintain services to the public, the public sector have spending targets that allows for programmes to be budgeted for
    eg school building, garda overtime, road building, support funds for businesses, funding for start ups

    how would potential public sector employees find out about jobs in the public sector if the jobs weren't advertised nationally in the print media?
    eg nurses, doctors, school principals, engineers in local councils, state law offices...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,723 ✭✭✭nice_guy80


    According to nice _guy80 (above) the civil service do have spending targets. See? Just like I told you, exactly like the twilight zone.

    why wouldn't they have spending targets
    I mean, a government department set out their plans for the year and then do up a budget and they try and spend the money allocated to them
    what is the issue?


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭realitykeeper


    nice_guy80 wrote: »
    why wouldn't they have spending targets
    I mean, a government department set out their plans for the year and then do up a budget and they try and spend the money allocated to them
    what is the issue?
    That is insane! Imagine that kind of mentality, trying to spend to a target. No wonder the country is in the state it is in.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,497 ✭✭✭ezra_pound


    That is insane! Imagine that kind of mentality, trying to spend to a target. No wonder the country is in the state it is in.

    It's called budgeting.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,723 ✭✭✭nice_guy80


    That is insane! Imagine that kind of mentality, trying to spend to a target. No wonder the country is in the state it is in.

    if the department of education didn't spend all the money they had earmarked for new schools and maintenance of current buildings, then children would be left without schools or in prefabs

    if the department of health didn't spend their target on new hospital buildings and maintenance and refurbishment, the health sector would crumble within a few years


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭realitykeeper


    nice_guy80 wrote: »
    if the department of education didn't spend all the money they had earmarked for new schools and maintenance of current buildings, then children would be left without schools or in prefabs

    if the department of health didn't spend their target on new hospital buildings and maintenance and refurbishment, the health sector would crumble within a few years

    It is a well known and established fact that private enterprise makes economic sense and state monopolies do not. Despite this, stupidity prevails and the state stubbornly refuses to get out of the way and allow the full privatization of the health and education sectors. Does it really matter if someone makes a profit so long as the job gets done and everyone receives a superior education and the benefits of a fantastic health service?

    The chaos in A&E are what you get from a state monopoly. What do you think would happen if the state controlled the retail sector? People would queue for hours to get a few rotting tomatoes and a block of moldy cheese.

    Why would you deprive the elderly of a quick and pleasant trip to a state of the art health facility with all the mod cons, stress free staff and the five star treatment and instead subject them to a lonely and miserable death on a trolley in a run down and chaotic A&E ward? Are you really so jealous of some perfect stranger making a profit that you would do that to your own mother or father?

    If the state must run a monopoly, then why not take sole control over the sale of everything that is bad for people: alcohol, tobacco products, legal highs, gambling etc. In fact, the state should legalize the illegal drugs and have a monopoly on all the the above. In Scandinavia, people wishing to avail of these things simply sign a form and pay the government.


  • Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Stay on topic please which isn't public sector bashing, Government conspiracy theories and extreme right wing ideology.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    Rightwing wrote: »
    German banks have more exposure to Greece now than they had 2 years ago, French banks have much less. It's about perceived risk.

    andrew wrote: »
    Proof/data?

    I normally don't oblige when such requests are made as my data is internal and you can appreciate there are confidentiality factors involved. Then it can be time consuming going online.

    In this instance, posters may be interested in seeing the different exposures countries banks have and the insights behind it.

    http://www.bruegel.org/nc/blog/detail/article/1557-whos-still-exposed-to-greece/
    As can be seen from the graphs, US/UK/German banks have all increased their Greek exposure from Dec 12, whereas France has greatly reduced theirs, when at 1 stage they were by far the most exposed when the sovereign debt crisis erupted. Most would assume this was foolish from the UK/US/German banks, but the economic environment in Greece was again approaching normalisation, hence the increase.


    It is important to understand that when the state advertises jobs - that is not a good thing. It is bad news. When the states employs, it wastes money. Indeed, when the state does anything, it wastes money. Terms such as "spending targets" only exist in the twilight zone and the civil service.
    .

    In many instances I would agree, particularly in the run up to elections, when there are crazy announcements like 666 jobs :rolleyes::

    http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/review-of-sna-scheme-as-666-extra-posts-approved-341273.html


  • Registered Users Posts: 392 ✭✭skafish


    It is important to understand that when the state advertises jobs - that is not a good thing. It is bad news. When the states employs, it wastes money. Indeed, when the state does anything, it wastes money. Terms such as "spending targets" only exist in the twilight zone and the civil service.

    Another contributor "justified" the state using print media to advertise on the grounds that it was a "requirement", he just forgot to mention the requirement was put there by the state - how convenient. Like I said, the government`s use of print media to advertise looks suspiciously like an attempt to bribe the newspapers so they will print the government`s propaganda. You don`t have to be a conspiracy theorist to know a sucker when you see one.

    Conspiracy theories much there Reality keeper?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,934 ✭✭✭robp


    nice_guy80 wrote: »
    if the department of health didn't spend their target on new hospital buildings and maintenance and refurbishment, the health sector would crumble within a few years

    Not necessarily. It just depends on what is driving spending, is it about using up budgets or improving performance on some metric.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,723 ✭✭✭nice_guy80


    Minimum Wage increases for a lot of workers in the next budget!
    Great!

    How many small businesses will shed staff or change their rostering based on this?


    I know of businesses that are actively letting staff go and rehiring new staff on different contracts so they can claim the Jobplus financial initiative from the Department of Social Welfare for hiring people off the long term dole - 12 months +


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 21,727 ✭✭✭✭Godge


    nice_guy80 wrote: »
    Minimum Wage increases for a lot of workers in the next budget!
    Great!

    How many small businesses will shed staff or change their rostering based on this?


    I know of businesses that are actively letting staff go and rehiring new staff on different contracts so they can claim the Jobplus financial initiative from the Department of Social Welfare for hiring people off the long term dole - 12 months +

    Businesses who do that fall into two categories:

    (1) Those who exploit their workers which is a long-term guarantee of failure

    (2) Those who are not financially viable and are only postponing the inevitable.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭realitykeeper


    Even without the election promises, Fine Gael has proven itself to be just as deluded as Fianna Fail in matters pertaining to the economy. This is a government that has borrowed with careless abandon. It was elected on the promise that the taxpayer would not pay for bailing out the banks and not only did they break that promise but they heaped tens of billions in additional debt on the shoulders of the Irish taxpayer.


  • Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    FG are also proposing taking 100's of 000's of people out of the USC net, ending up paying no Income Tax or PRSI. So much for a sustainable tax take. This is exactly what FF did post 2002, seems we've learned nothing.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,248 ✭✭✭✭BoJack Horseman


    K-9 wrote: »
    FG are also proposing taking 100's of 000's of people out of the USC net, ending up paying no Income Tax or PRSI. So much for a sustainable tax take. This is exactly what FF did post 2002, seems we've learned nothing.

    Politicians know what makes paddy purr.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    Godge wrote: »
    Businesses who do that fall into two categories:

    (1) Those who exploit their workers which is a long-term guarantee of failure

    (2) Those who are not financially viable and are only postponing the inevitable.

    This is a ridiculous post.

    Employers don't exploit workers, they provide opportunities for them. Those that do exploit the workers aren't in the tax system e.g au pairs. illegal immigrants.

    Increasing the minimum wage will cause unemployment. This is 1 of the few things economists can agree on. The more you raise the minimum wage, the more businesses will fall into your 'not financially viable' category.
    K-9 wrote: »
    FG are also proposing taking 100's of 000's of people out of the USC net, ending up paying no Income Tax or PRSI. So much for a sustainable tax take. This is exactly what FF did post 2002, seems we've learned nothing.

    I don't have a problem with this. Welfare (and particularly the extras associated with it) is too high in this country, so you have to make it somewhat more attractive for low paid workers to work.


  • Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Maybe, I suspect it might be ok now but come a recession, the same people will use the figures, or lack of, to increase them again.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    K-9 wrote: »
    Maybe, I suspect it might be ok now but come a recession, the same people will use the figures, or lack of, to increase them again.

    I don't think one it too far away. A global recession that is. Government ought to be concentrating on reducing costs and spending. 'No one saw it coming' type analysis is what I'd expecting to hear.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,723 ✭✭✭nice_guy80


    Rightwing wrote: »
    I don't think one it too far away. A global recession that is. Government ought to be concentrating on reducing costs and spending. 'No one saw it coming' type analysis is what I'd expecting to hear.

    I agree with this

    China is in real trouble at the moment and if they stop investing money abroad a lot of countries are going to feel the pinch


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  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,266 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    Central bank warns against more tax cuts. Says additional tax revenues should be instead be used to pay down debt:
    In a new quarterly forecast with upgraded projections for economic growth this year and next, the bank warned against using unanticipated tax revenues in the budget and said the money would be better spent paying down the national debt.

    The forecast comes as the Government prepares an expansionary package between €1.2 billion and €1.5 billion in the October budget, its last before the election.

    Will they be heeded? With an election coming up, I seriously doubt it.


This discussion has been closed.
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