Is Irish Pride toast?!

Harry Palmr

Hardly seems possible that a bread bakery in Ireland could go to the wall but that's what's happened.

http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2015/0612/707672-irish-pride-receivership/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2huA5NfqZlg

Presumably the collapse in the doughy breakfast roll market since the construction bubble blew is at the heart of this.

agent graves

irish pride is bread,,, but you can make toast with this bread

LadyFenghuang

Irish pride is either bread ....or something Americans do.

godtabh

it hasnt gone to the wall yet. Its gone stale maybe

Oh no

This is all those poor workers knead.

seamus

That's mad. Perhaps it's the growth in the likes of Lidl, and the demonisation of gluten/carbs/white bread that's led to this?

(There's no pun in my post in case you were looking for one)

Crumbs868

Whoever bought the company last year had a piss poor business plan if they only lasted 12 months

Valetta

Crumbs868 wrote: »

Whoever bought the company last year had a piss poor business plan if they only lasted 12 months

Apt username.

They just ran out of dough.

LadyFenghuang

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Oh no

This is all those poor workers knead.

They will be bashing them in another thread shortly.

LadyFenghuang

seamus wrote: »

That's mad. Perhaps it's the growth in the likes of Lidl, and the demonisation of gluten/carbs/white bread that's led to this?

(There's no pun in my post in case you were looking for one)

I only really shop in lidl....they generally stock Irish brands. Just not Brennans etc. They stock brands they can do deals with etc.

LadyFenghuang

It's going to still trade under receivership.

I do feel sorry for all the people potentially to be laid off alright.

Ruu

It's bread and butter for the workers now for a few weeks.

LadyFenghuang

“This development comes against the background of difficult trading over time, and results ultimately from particular market and cost pressures.”

It sounds like poor management.

" Speaking to The Mayo News, a Duff and Phelps spokesperson said that the aim is to maintain production, supple and distribution as normal and to sell business and assets of Irish Pride as going concern."
It's worrying they seem to think selling assets is not going to affect production it generally means bad news for staff. I hope their workers rights are protected. It must be terrible news to hear.

Greenmachine

Valetta wrote: »

Apt username.

They just ran out of dough.

You two thanks so far have come a rare bred of boards.ie posters. The ever elusive single syllable members.

whiskeyman

Greenmachine wrote: »

You two thanks so far have come a rare bred of boards.ie posters. The ever elusive single syllable members.

I see.
You could say it's odd to have just 1 per name.
Some job if a whole post were to have just words with 1 of them through all of it.
That would take some thought and craft.
Not sure if one would have the time to do such a thing.
We can wait I guess...

SEPT 23 1989

Im sure the communist union beards played a lead role in their downfall

Dirty Dingus McGee

Hopefully it doesn't go out of business.

It's by far the best bread for toast.

4zn76tysfajdxp

seamus wrote: »

(There's no pun in my post in case you were looking for one)

Typical crusty old Seamus.

Voltex

On the surface its simple what happened to Irish Pride. How can you sell an 800 gram sliced pan for €0.59 retail and cover your costs? At €0.59 retail the price into the multiple has to be about circa. €0.35.

Some cheap retailers are a dab hand at stimulating/stoking/creating such competitive rivalry amongst suppliers that they end up creating a situation where suppliers tender completely unsustainable prices.

Anyway..the reasons IP are in trouble are complex and varied and not just to do with mismanagement. The intrinsic dynamics of competition within the bakery industry play their part also.

LadyFenghuang

Voltex wrote: »

On the surface its simple what happened to Irish Pride. How can you sell an 800 gram sliced pan for €0.59 retail and cover your costs? At €0.59 retail the price into the multiple has to be about circa. €0.35.

Some cheap retailers are a dab hand at stimulating/stoking/creating such competitive rivalry amongst suppliers that they end up creating a situation where suppliers tender completely unsustainable prices.

Anyway..the reasons IP are in trouble are complex and varied and not just to do with mismanagement. The intrinsic dynamics of competition within the bakery industry play their part also.

It's strange I would have thought baking and bread was a fairly stable predictable industry. I am no great business woman or anything.

Voltex

LadyFenghuang wrote: »

It's strange I would have thought baking and bread was a fairly stable predictable industry. I am no great business woman or anything.

When supply out-paces demand in a commoditised industry strange things happen....and what makes matters worse is when you buy into a trade your not 100% familiar with!

The simple narrative is that in Ireland there is way too uch capacity in the plant bakery sector. Volume is King and some bakeries will sacrifice margin for volume and commit the fatal error of thinking that if they secure contract X with a major multiple their worries are over just because they tendered a cheaper price than the competitor. That is the industries fatal conceit..something Irish Pride walked right into!!

Capt'n Midnight

Voltex wrote: »

The simple narrative is that in Ireland there is way too uch capacity in the plant bakery sector. Volume is King and some bakeries will sacrifice margin for volume and commit the fatal error of thinking that if they secure contract X with a major multiple their worries are over just because they tendered a cheaper price than the competitor. That is the industries fatal conceit..something Irish Pride walked right into!!

But this has all happened before. I was told Dunnes decimated the bakeries a good while back offering massive contracts and then giving loans because the bakers would need new ovens and then gotcha. Bakery is now in hoc to Dunnes and it was all downhill from there.

The J Stands for Jay

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Hardly seems possible that a bread bakery in Ireland could go to the wall but that's what's happened.

http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2015/0612/707672-irish-pride-receivership/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2huA5NfqZlg

Presumably the collapse in the doughy breakfast roll market since the construction bubble blew is at the heart of this.

Loads of Irish bakeries have gone bust in the last 20years

kneemos

There's a massive bakery in Wales apparently that can import bread for less than what it costs to make here.
Don't know who they produce for,but it's a serious bargaining chip for the multiples.

Voltex

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

But this has all happened before. I was told Dunnes decimated the bakeries a good while back offering massive contracts and then giving loans because the bakers would need new ovens and then gotcha. Bakery is now in hoc to Dunnes and it was all downhill from there.

TBH thats not a story Iv heard before so cant comment on it. Dunnes owns Nevilles Bakery in Ballyfermot that produce all their own brand sliced bread.

I think part of the current difficulty is that the sliced pan market in Ireland is a mature market that in volume terms is in a YOY decline. This only makes the pursuit of volume even more intense with the resulting prices offered ever more crazy. It then becomes a vicious cycle in the sense that the prices offered per unit of product reflect the consumers ultimate notional value of the end product. A unit of product with a low level of value attached and hence a low price means the industry is unattractive, with low profitability and low returns to all stakeholders.

All this means lack of talent entering the trade, low investment, little innovation, low levels of industry development and progression....and more bakeries going to the wall.

My personal opinion is that William and Garret Lloyd got into the bakery business without fully understanding the trade and hence got burned. I also believe that another major Irish bakery brand looked at buying IP about 18 months ago and walked away post due diligence...apparently it was a basket case!!

Not sure whats gonna come of Irish Pride. Brennans cant take it or the competition authority will go gang busters on them, (they currently own Brennans, JMOB and Doyles), Pat the Baker..could be a maybe, theres scope for a British bakery to take them over..but market fundamentals are going to be a problem.

LadyFenghuang

Voltex wrote: »

industry is unattractive, with low profitability and low returns to all stakeholders.

All this means lack of talent entering the trade, low investment, little innovation, low levels of industry development and progression....and more bakeries going to the wall.

My personal opinion is that William and Garret Lloyd got into the bakery business without fully understanding the trade and hence got burned.

I agree with you.

It's not a 'glamorous' tech business. I think because the product is simple enough people tend to assume the business is too.

LadyFenghuang

Voltex wrote: »

Not sure whats gonna come of Irish Pride. Brennans cant take it or the competition authority will go gang busters on them, (they currently own Brennans, JMOB and Doyles), Pat the Baker..could be a maybe, theres scope for a British bakery to take them over..but market fundamentals are going to be a problem.

I am surprised the state does not do more in these cases. They seem to over in the UK.

anncoates

Aukd Mr Brennan, pictured today:

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/2bgDi2BYtIY/hqdefault.jpg

Mr. Incognito

Their retail price was outragious.

Was lovely bread but too expensive.

LadyFenghuang

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Their retail price was outragious.

Was lovely bread but too expensive.

It's possible in comparison to other brands. When you think of it they are not only competing in reality with other pan brands but with artisan breads or companies like 'cuisine de france'.

Cold War Kid

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Im sure the communist union beards played a lead role in their downfall

You're... sure?

Voltex

LadyFenghuang wrote: »

I am surprised the state does not do more in these cases. They seem to over in the UK.

The problem then arises of an abnormal interference with the natural dynamics of competition.

Competition is a healthy state..it promotes efficiency, product development, progression...but it becomes unhealthy when is based solely on price irrespective of other attributes.

The State has no place in interfering with the natural processes of market actions...but it can influence the culture(s) that effect market forces.

mvt

Made a point to get some of their wraps today.

Hope this doesnt end up in tears.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

I would assume the rise of artisan bakeries and 'unbranded' bread would play a role. The Irish are slowly moving away from being brand loyal to a fault.

Why not pay a little extra for a fancy bread with seeds or spelt or raisins or whatever made in a local bakery, or why not pay a little less and buy unbranded/own brand bread? There is nothing special nor cheap about Irish Pride, Brennan's, Pat the Baker ect.

Roger Hassenforder

LadyFenghuang wrote: »

It's possible in comparison to other brands. When you think of it they are not only competing in reality with other pan brands but with artisan breads or companies like 'cuisine de france'.

they used to be part of the same company not too long ago.

_Tombstone_

Waits for some kinda Thieving/clever accounting/corruption story.

Aidric

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Im sure the communist union beards played a lead role in their downfall

Is old Mr Brennan actually Jack O Connor?

Bongalongherb

It's all on the bread-roll now...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ixz4ujwoCJk

DrGreenthumb

I wonder what the wokers will do to earn a crust if they go under

Voltex

Rumour has it that Rank Hovis has bought Irish Pride.

Slunk

In work all our bread comes from northern Ireland. On occasion they have sent in the wrong brand, this been produced in the UK and frozen before being shipped to newry, defrosted and dispatched to retailers/catering companies. How cheap ate they producing this that they can get frozen bread shipped from UK to the north to Dublin.

fussyonion

It's bloody horrible bread anyway.

LaVail

It's not brain surgery it's bakin!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQAIoSC3kAQ