Pedestrianise kilkenny city centre

imacman

I was walking up high street last Sunday on a lovely sunny day in kilkenny. The only thing that took away from the beauty of the city was all of the traffic on high street.
The council has spent a lot of money upgrading all of the footpaths and street furniture why didn't they just pedestrianise high street from Friary street to James street.City centre pedestrianisation has been really successful in Limerick,Waterford, Cork and Dublin so seems like a no brainer to do the same in the medieval city.
There are plans for the medieval mile and upgrading other tourist attractions in kilkenny surely taking a stream of cars out of the center of the city is a simple way to enhance the whole area.

Stitch09

Simply put, because its been suggested before and the local businesses come out in arms every time. It had been one way for a while and that didn't go well either, so snarling traffic it is and will most likely remain

catastrophy

Stitch09 wrote: »

Simply put, because its been suggested before and the local businesses come out in arms every time. It had been one way for a while and that didn't go well either, so snarling traffic it is and will most likely remain

I thought the one way system was quite good.

I think pedestrianising would be a great idea too, but then im able to get around... not sure how old people would fare.

Virtanen

The one-way system freed up traffic on High Street, but caused massive congestion elsewhere, especially by Market Yard and Rose Inn Street. And with no easy alternative routes to avoid said congestion either. I can't imagine how bad it would be to fully pedestrianise it

Cabaal

Virtanen wrote: »

The one-way system freed up traffic on High Street, but caused massive congestion elsewhere, especially by Market Yard and Rose Inn Street. And with no easy alternative routes to avoid said congestion either. I can't imagine how bad it would be to fully pedestrianise it

Completing the ring road would have created the perfect alternative route, guess it'll never happen

kikel

I see on the news today that Dublin city council are talking about even more pedestrianisation. More cycle routes, more walking. More teams etc.

Kilkenny county council are making a lot of mistakes at the moment. It really is sad state of affairs.

lotdpd

Do tell me how people can get down to do bank lodgements or deliveries during normal working hours in large commercial vehicles if its closed off???

Captain Havoc

lotdpd wrote: »

Do tell me how people can get down to do bank lodgements or deliveries during normal working hours in large commercial vehicles if its closed off???

Deliveries is easy, you do it before or after a certain hour like in other cities. Bank lodgements, you're joking right? Do you drive your car into bank or something?

road_high

Captain Havoc wrote: »

Bank lodgements, you're joking right? Do you drive your car into bank or something?

Don't AIB have a business banking service in the Danville Business Park anyhow?

imacman

Stitch09 wrote: »

Simply put, because its been suggested before and the local businesses come out in arms every time. It had been one way for a while and that didn't go well either, so snarling traffic it is and will most likely remain

I dont get this argument that it will hurt local business.Nobody is parking on high street to go shopping there.If it was pedestrianised surely that would attract more people into the centre of the city. There would be traffic disruption to begin with but surely that occurred everywhere schemes like this were implemented and it worked itself out over time.With the new inner relief road completed its a no brainer to pedestrianise between Friary street and James street.With Sherwoods moving out to the retail park and rumours of Argos and boots to follow the city centre needs to be made a more attractive place to shop

myshirt

I always think of this video when people complain about pedestrianisation.

lotdpd

Captain Havoc wrote: »

Deliveries is easy, you do it before or after a certain hour like in other cities. Bank lodgements, you're joking right? Do you drive your car into bank or something?

Do i sound like i am joking so please be realistic!!!

How about you walk to the ulster bank from the bottom of the parade with cash that needs changing in the ulster bank? Surely you can understand thats not safe?

Deliveries is not easy, if you worked for yourself and see the demands that have to be meet for customers then you would understand. And more important the people parking in the loading bays to go in and do there shopping when your trying to do a delivery is just as bad as the ill mannered people who park in disabled parking bays who dont have a pass and dont care.

So pedestrianse it when you cant maintain your current parking bays or laws now thats a joke!!!

imacman

lotdpd wrote: »

Do i sound like i am joking so please be realistic!!!

How about you walk to the ulster bank from the bottom of the parade with cash that needs changing in the ulster bank? Surely you can understand thats not safe?

Deliveries is not easy, if you worked for yourself and see the demands that have to be meet for customers then you would understand. And more important the people parking in the loading bays to go in and do there shopping when your trying to do a delivery is just as bad as the ill mannered people who park in disabled parking bays who don't have a pass and dont care.

So pedestrianse it when you cant maintain your current parking bays or laws now thats a joke!!!

Isnt it the case that all deliveries on high street have to done early in the morning and in pedestrianised areas in other cities those areas are opened up early in the morning to allow trucks in with deliveries.

Your comment about Ulster banks is valid but it shouldn't be a barrier to moving forward with this as the amount of traders who do cash night safe deposits in Ulsterbank (PTSB have stopped doing them) is minuscule compared to the benefits that would come to the city as whole from doing this.

Captain Havoc

lotdpd wrote: »

Do i sound like i am joking so please be realistic!!!

How about you walk to the ulster bank from the bottom of the parade with cash that needs changing in the ulster bank? Surely you can understand thats not safe?

Deliveries is not easy, if you worked for yourself and see the demands that have to be meet for customers then you would understand. And more important the people parking in the loading bays to go in and do there shopping when your trying to do a delivery is just as bad as the ill mannered people who park in disabled parking bays who dont have a pass and dont care.

So pedestrianse it when you cant maintain your current parking bays or laws now thats a joke!!!

So you're going to the Ulster Bank, where are you parking at the moment? If someone wants to deliver to you, they will find a way to get to you, equally if you want to get to someone, you will find a way to get to them.

catastrophy

Captain Havoc wrote: »

So you're going to the Ulster Bank, where are you parking at the moment? If someone wants to deliver to you, they will find a way to get to you, equally if you want to get to someone, you will find a way to get to them.

Have to agree with this.

I feel that sometimes people are simply afraid of change, be it good bad or indifferent.

lotdpd

Captain Havoc wrote: »

So you're going to the Ulster Bank, where are you parking at the moment? If someone wants to deliver to you, they will find a way to get to you, equally if you want to get to someone, you will find a way to get to them.

In a commercial vehicle in a loading bay on high street, yards from the bank..... not in a private vehicle in a disabled parking space like most people in kilkenny do....

So for someone that has to do a delivery/emergency or an engineer that has to go fix a breakdown on a machine during the day they cant fix the emergency because of loading and unloading tools/machine when the street is closed off to traffic....

Go ask a shop owner on high street what would they like....I am telling you form practical working experience how much of a problem it already is ....

hi5

The other problem is the car park on Friary street needs access from High street, so it would have to be pedestrianized after Friary st .

I think the whole place should be pedestrianized from the Castle gates down, all the parade and Rose Inn and lower Patrick street too.
A one way system down John st, turn right down the back of Dunnes Stores and then right down Parliament st.
The problem is we need a more parking just outside this zone and the space isn't there.

kikel

lotdpd wrote: »

In a commercial vehicle in a loading bay on high street, yards from the bank..... not in a private vehicle in a disabled parking space like most people in kilkenny do....

So for someone that has to do a delivery/emergency or an engineer that has to go fix a breakdown on a machine during the day they cant fix the emergency because of loading and unloading tools/machine when the street is closed off to traffic....

Go ask a shop owner on high street what would they like....I am telling you form practical working experience how much of a problem it already is ....

Plenty of areas in Dublin and other European cities have thrived from pedestrianisation.

Businesses in Dublin rarely drive tot he bank as they cannot park outside their business. Very often have to park 15-20 minutes of even miles away with park and ride systems.

how can people go the bank, walk cycle. it's simple really.

kikel

hi5 wrote: »

The other problem is the car park on Friary street needs access from High street, so it would have to be pedestrianized after Friary st .

I think the whole place should be pedestrianized from the Castle gates down, all the parade and Rose Inn and lower Patrick street too.
A one way system down John st, turn right down the back of Dunnes Stores and then right down Parliament st.
The problem is we need a more parking just outside this zone and the space isn't there.

Hmm, Their are options for parking. Mart site, The old cash and carry site to name a few.

Captain Havoc

I've had jobs in the past where I've had to do daily banking, one I had to get a train to the bank. You simply put the money in your pocket or in a sports bag, Dunnes reusable bag or other. Kilkenny wouldn't be the first place to be pedestrianised. Frosty street to James street is all that needs to be done.

1984baby

Pedestrian areas work in cities like Dublin and Galway etc. because they have good public transport systems in place - alot of people do not use their own cars in these cities. Kilkenny has a very bad public transport system and I can not see it improving in the future.
The one way system will not work in Kilkenny until the ring road is completed. We do not have the proper infrastructure at present to implement a proper one way system.

road_high

If you pedestrianise High St you push the traffic into Bateman Quay and Rose Inn St. That's the problem, as they can't cope. As others have said, without enhanced infrastructure, this will be very hard to implement. There simply aren't enough alternatives to travel on.
Perhaps the controversial IRR may prove yet an unlikely fairy God mother, as traffic that would have had to go down Bateman Quay could use that to some extent, allowing High St to be pedestrianised.

kikel

road_high wrote: »

If you pedestrianise High St you push the traffic into Bateman Quay and Rose Inn St. That's the problem, as they can't cope. As others have said, without enhanced infrastructure, this will be very hard to implement. There simply aren't enough alternatives to travel on.
Perhaps the controversial IRR may prove yet an unlikely fairy God mother, as traffic that would have had to go down Bateman Quay could use that to some extent, allowing High St to be pedestrianised.

It'll be interesting to see what happen with the CAS. At the moment the public consultation seems to be against having a road for cars to pass through the brewery site to acess bateman quay. Time will tell.

lotdpd

Sure you walk down high street there barely able to carry €1 and €2 coins in change and see how far you get before someone stops...

As the traffic warden said to me this morning when he was under pressure trying to keep the loading bay free for trucks doing deliveries ... if shops opening half and hour to an hour earlier to take deliveries it would ease the traffic on high street. Good point i have to say...

Formosa

lotdpd wrote: »

In a commercial vehicle in a loading bay on high street, yards from the bank..... not in a private vehicle in a disabled parking space like most people in kilkenny do....

It's a loading bay, not a "I'll just dump my van here while I go banking" bay...you using it this way is just as much an abuse of it as those others you moan about....

imacman

I was downtown yesterday for the cycling event , High street was closed from Friary street to James street and it was great.Everyone I talked to said it was so nice to have no traffic in the centre of the city and the whole street felt different.
A first everyone still walked on the paths but after a while they spread out on the street and it felt like a real public place and was jammed with people, and surprise surprise the traffic kept moving around the city. Its clear that this would make a massive difference to the city even it was just at the weekends,its such a no brainer.

road_high

I think from Friary st to James st would be great. It's just the chaos at Bateman Quay/Rose Inn street that will result needs top be sorted first. They've trialled it before and that's where the main problems arose.

hi5

When they had the one way system in operation you were only meant to turn left over Johns Bridge and down John Street from Bateman quay, nobody obeyed this rule and it wasn't enforced even though there were signs up.
I was behind a Garda car trying to turn right one day, I gave up any hope after that.

kikel

For any of these schemes to succeed they would have to stop cross city traffic. To much traffic goes across city which is pointless. The council have to actively promote via signage and other methods how the traffic should move. Yeah it would be a pain in the arse for many but that is the only way to get people to change their habits.

imacman

kikel wrote: »

For any of these schemes to succeed they would have to stop cross city traffic. To much traffic goes across city which is pointless. The council have to actively promote via signage and other methods how the traffic should move. Yeah it would be a pain in the arse for many but that is the only way to get people to change their habits.

Exactly people need to change their habits, to be honest i don't understand the benefit of driving up high street.There would be a lot of moaning at the start but people would get over it in the long run and we would have a more people friendly city.

Threadhead

High Street was lovely yesterday, entirely pedestrianised, people walking around, families enjoying themselves.

All it takes to pedestrianise large sections of the town is a little bit of imagination and a lot of forward thinking. Two things that our local executive are unfortunately bereft of.

imacman

road_high wrote: »

I think from Friary st to James st would be great. It's just the chaos at Bateman Quay/Rose Inn street that will result needs top be sorted first. They've trialled it before and that's where the main problems arose.

I think the CAS will solve that issue, once its done the only reason to come up to bateman quay would be to park in Dunnes.

imacman

http://m.kilkennypeople.ie/news/kilkenny-news/call-for-the-pedestrianisation-of-high-street-and-rose-inn-street-1-6936949