The Plight of the Rohingya

Very Bored

In many circles the Rohingya are termed the most persecuted people in the world. I've often wondered why there hasn't been a more high profile focus. Surely something should be done about this. What can be done and how? Also, as Ireland has an interest in this, there being many Rohingya refugees in Ireland, particularly in Carlow amongst other places, should Ireland be putting international pressure on the big world players to act?

www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-33007536

StewartGriffin

Possibly it's because here in the Western world we like to keep our poster heroes squeaky clean and any mention that Aung San Suu Kyi and those happy orange robed Buddhist Monks may not be perfect, is unpalatable. And since it's unpalatable, the spineless media will report on other stuff that sells better.

smash

I can't even pronounce that, let alone form an opinion on it.

Cee-Jay-Cee

404 - Page Not Found!

If you're certain that there should be a page here, please let us know and we'll fix it.

Once upon a midnight dreary,
while I websurfed, weak and weary,
Over many a strange and spurious website
of 'hot chicks galore',
While I clicked my fav'rite bookmark,
suddenly there came a warning,
And my heart was filled with mourning,
mourning for my dear amour.
"'Tis not possible," I muttered,
"give me back my cheap hardcore!" -
Quoth the server, "404".

old_aussie

Ron who?

Nucular Arms

They look to be in a bit of bother alright..

old_aussie

Very Bored wrote: »

Rohingya refugees in Ireland, particularly in Carlow amongst other places, should Ireland be putting international pressure on the big world players to act?

www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-33007536

And what type of pressure would that be?

I don't think Australia wants them, and it appears that no one else, big world players or Asian countries, wants these muslims

I wonder why they dont go to Bangladesh or Pakistan?

Sheep Lover

The poor fcukers. How awful for them. Having to live in such a backward, uneducated and violent society of Carlow.

SEPT 23 1989

Watched news reports of where these people live and the conditions

it looked like hell

Nodin

old_aussie wrote: »

And what type of pressure would that be?

I don't think Australia wants them, and it appears that no one else, big world players or Asian countries,wants these muslims

I wonder why they dont go to Bangladesh or Pakistan?

Whats their religion to do with it?

goose2005

StewartGriffin wrote: »

Possibly it's because here in the Western world we like to keep our poster heroes squeaky clean and any mention that Aung San Suu Kyi and those happy orange robed Buddhist Monks may not be perfect, is unpalatable. And since it's unpalatable, the spineless media will report on other stuff that sells better.

Burmese monks wear maroon.


And I suppose it's just that Burmese people don't want Muslims, they don't want Islam.

ClovenHoof

Nucular Arms wrote: »

They look to be in a bit of bother alright..

Fool!!

That's the People of Gondor in trouble, the Rohan are coming to rescue them.

Clearly you were not paying attention in school.

Nodin

goose2005 wrote: »

Burmese monks wear maroon.


And I suppose it's just that Burmese people don't want Muslims, they don't want Islam.

Otherwise known as "sectarianism".

Arsemageddon

Nodin wrote: »

Whats their religion to do with it?

It's of vital importance if your world view sees all Muslims as evil.

topper75

Does boards need a separate Bleeding Hearts forum to stop clogging up After Hours?

Generic Dreadhead

topper75 wrote: »

Does boards need a separate Bleeding Hearts forum to stop clogging up After Hours?

OHHHHH SNAP!!!!! :pac:

PopePalpatine

topper75 wrote: »

Does boards need a separate Bleeding Hearts forum to stop clogging up After Hours?

We'd need a Heartless Bigot forum for balance.

TheLastMohican

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

404 - Page Not Found!

If you're certain that there should be a page here, please let us know and we'll fix it.

Once upon a midnight dreary,
while I websurfed, weak and weary,
Over many a strange and spurious website
of 'hot chicks galore',
While I clicked my fav'rite bookmark,
suddenly there came a warning,
And my heart was filled with mourning,
mourning for my dear amour.
"'Tis not possible," I muttered,
"give me back my cheap hardcore!" -
Quoth the server, "404".

From Night's Plutonian Portsalon shore
Unquoth the Raven - nevermore

topper75

PopePalpatine wrote: »

We'd need a Heartless Bigot forum for balance.

Oh, I have a heart, but no apologies to anyone that it doesn't pretend to stretch across vast swathes of the globe that most Irish have never even heard of not to mind travel to. This kind of thread topic originates in people LOOKING for problems.

brevity

Are those the guys in Lord of the Rings? The ones that came down the hill with Gandalf.

Arsemageddon

topper75 wrote: »

Oh, I have a heart, but no apologies to anyone that it doesn't pretend to stretch across vast swathes of the globe that most Irish have never even heard of not to mind travel to. This kind of thread topic originates in people LOOKING for problems.

Well it's either that or maybe, just maybe it's because some people take an interest in stuff that happens outside Ireland

Very Bored

They do go to Bangladesh but then they get put into refugee camps and get persecuted there to.

This is not a bleeding heart issue, nor it it an attempt to search for problems. To the user who suggested why the issue may be of little or zero importance to Ireland, I qualified this in my first post by stating Ireland has taken in a large number of Rohingya as refugees, many of whom now have Irish citizenship.

crockholm

PopePalpatine wrote: »

We'd need a Heartless Bigot forum for balance.

Quite possibly the first time I have ever agreed with you on boards:D I would like to nominate myself as heartless bigot mod for this new sub forum,any bedwetter type posts and.....permaban.

FTA69

old_aussie wrote: »

And what type of pressure would that be?

I don't think Australia wants them, and it appears that no one else, big world players or Asian countries, wants these muslims

I wonder why they dont go to Bangladesh or Pakistan?

They do, and they get treated like sh*t there too. I was in Bangladesh in January and saw some of their camps in Chittagong near the border with Burma, they resemble prison camps more than anything else; concrete expanses ringed with wire and walls and staffed by guards. In an already desperately poor country, these people are on another level entirely.

Bangladesh denies them citizenship and suggests they have no place in the country.

jonnypacket

Most of us in Ireland are still riding the Palestinian bandwagon. It's not fashionable to pretend to care about the Rohingya yet.

Nodin

jonnypacket wrote: »

Most of us in Ireland are still riding the Palestinian bandwagon. It's not fashionable to pretend to care about the Rohingya yet.

Speak for yourself.

Hans Bricks

You would swear Ireland is that semi-mythical last known location of dry land that Kevin Costner finds at the end of Waterworld.

Mysterypunter

That an si soo ki wan is a prick. Where are all the hippy musicians for these poor bastards? Where are the candles and the amnesty international know alls? Imagine being unwanted by Bangladesh.Poor sods.

Nucular Arms

Hans Bricks wrote: »

You would swear Ireland is that semi-mythical last known location of dry land that Kevin Costner finds at the end of Waterworld.

I have seen it... it is not a myth.

Nucular Arms

ClovenHoof wrote: »

Fool!!

That's the People of Gondor in trouble, the Rohan are coming to rescue them.

Clearly you were not paying attention in school.

Just chasing the sight gag of title..

I doubt anyone ever actually watches youtube embeds on here.. I know I don't!

goose2005

Nodin wrote: »

Otherwise known as "sectarianism".

Perhaps. But also self-preservation. Afghanistan used to be Buddhist. Indonesia. Northern India/Pakistan. Jihad has also reached to southern Thailand in recent years.

Nodin

goose2005 wrote: »

Perhaps. But also self-preservation. Afghanistan used to be Buddhist. Indonesia. Northern India/Pakistan. Jihad has also reached to southern Thailand in recent years.

Stop talking nonsense please. You clearly have no idea of the situation.

wes

goose2005 wrote: »

Perhaps. But also self-preservation. Afghanistan used to be Buddhist. Indonesia. Northern India/Pakistan. Jihad has also reached to southern Thailand in recent years.

Christians are also persecuted there......

RomanKnows

Nodin wrote: »

Speak for yourself.

The word Rohingya has been mentioned 24 times in total on boards. In fairness you were one of the people to use it. Once. In the same period you've mentioned Israel 735 times, and Palestinian 546 times. I've no doubt that you care deeply about the plight of the Rohingya though. Will the Irish Left be organising a flotilla to Burma at any stage?

Nodin

RomanKnows wrote: »

The word Rohingya has been mentioned 24 times in total on boards. In fairness you were one of the people to use it. Once. In the same period you've mentioned Israel 735 times, and Palestinian 546 times. I've no doubt that you care deeply about the plight of the Rohingya though. Will the Irish Left be organising a flotilla to Burma at any stage?

You'll find that the Palestinian situation has been on-going for 40 years. The plight of the Rohingya has only recently reached its current level.

As for the rest, if you want to start the usual "Why aren't the left complaining about...." diversions, you'll have to use somebody else to do so.

Nodin

wes wrote: »

Christians are also persecuted there......

...and minority ethnic groups. Sanctions were lifted far too soon IMO.

DeadHand

Obviously their plight is shocking.

A glance at the bigger picture here would tell us that Muslims do not tend to integrate well where they are a minority (France, Nigeria, China) and minorities do not tend to prosper where they are in the majority (Eygpt, Syria, Iraq, Iran).

What is it about Islam that it does not seem to encourage harmonious co-existence with those of different faiths (or of a "heretical" Islamic faith) and allows it to be interpreted in such murderous ways? ISIS, for example, have strong doctrinal justification for their crimes.

Its great rival Christianity has long since been disarmed and pacified in all but the darkest corners of Africa. The political ideologies that inspired similar violence and hatred have been rejected.

Yet, IslamIc violence and sectarianism continue to a medieval degree.

Nodin

DeadHand wrote: »

Obviously their plight is shocking.

A glance at the bigger picture here would tell us that Muslims do not tend to integrate well where they are a minority (France, Nigeria, China) and minorities do not tend to prosper where they are in the majority (Eygpt, Syria, Iraq, Iran).

What is it about Islam that it does not seem to encourage harmonious co-existence with those of different faiths (or of a "heretical" Islamic faith) and allows it to be interpreted in such murderous ways? ISIS, for example, have strong doctrinal justification for their crimes.

Its great rival Christianity has long since been disarmed and pacified in all but the darkest corners of Africa. The political ideologies that inspired similar violence and hatred have been rejected.

Yet, IslamIc violence and sectarianism continue to a medieval degree.

It's amazing the similarity between that little rant and comments I've read about anti-Semitism over the years.

wes

Its interesting to see that there seem to be so many who are oddly blaming the victims religion, all the while ignoring that Christians and other minorities are also persecuted, so as to have a go at Muslims.

There is an Ultra nationalist/Religious extremists element using the Rohingya (and other minorities) as a scape goat. Something that various military regimes the world over have done in the past.

porsche959

DeadHand wrote: »

Obviously their plight is shocking.

A glance at the bigger picture here would tell us that Muslims do not tend to integrate well where they are a minority (France, Nigeria, China) and minorities do not tend to prosper where they are in the majority (Eygpt, Syria, Iraq, Iran).

What is it about Islam that it does not seem to encourage harmonious co-existence with those of different faiths (or of a "heretical" Islamic faith) and allows it to be interpreted in such murderous ways? ISIS, for example, have strong doctrinal justification for their crimes.

Its great rival Christianity has long since been disarmed and pacified in all but the darkest corners of Africa. The political ideologies that inspired similar violence and hatred have been rejected.

Yet, IslamIc violence and sectarianism continue to a medieval degree.

Nice piece of victim blaming there from the 'woman wearing short skirt deserves to get raped' school of thought.

Very Bored

One question I would ask of those who are taking the Muslim extremist line is what reason do they give for why the Rohingya have never formed a violent resistance group? Islam is not without its violent groups, in fact there are very many violent factions within Islam which seek (a)to defend what they see as Islamist interests and (b)to go on the offensive where they feel Islamist interests can be pursued. However, the Rohingya have never had such support nor have they pursued such goals in such a manner themselves. They are a persecuted people, in fact using the word persecuted is almost inappropriate but I don't know a stronger word in English, yet they have never fought back, which many persecuted people around the world have done (including us Irish at various stages of our history). Why? Is it because it serves some kind of propaganda? Or is it, infinitely more probably, because they are peace-loving people who don't want to pursue such a path in the first place (not intended as a criticism of those who do stand up for themselves) and, secondly, because of their absolutely disperate state have no avenue of pursuing such a route?

DeadHand

porsche959 wrote: »

Nice piece of victim blaming there from the 'woman wearing short skirt deserves to get raped' school of thought.

It was a generally geopolitical observation.

One yet to be refuted by anything but sly, personal digs.

That was actually a disgusting insinuation to make. The argument of an utter arsehole.

IamNotNumber

Very Bored wrote: »

One question I would ask of those who are taking the Muslim extremist line is what reason do they give for why the Rohingya have never formed a violent resistance group? Islam is not without its violent groups, in fact there are very many violent factions within Islam which seek (a)to defend what they see as Islamist interests and (b)to go on the offensive where they feel Islamist interests can be pursued. However, the Rohingya have never had such support nor have they pursued such goals in such a manner themselves.

Are you aware of the Rohingya history in Burma by any chance? They have formed violent groups in the past.

The Rohingya insurgency in Western Burma is an armed conflict between the state of Burma and its Rohingya Muslim minority since 1947. Their initial ambition during Mujahideen movements (1947-1961) was to separate the Rohingya-populated Mayu frontier region of Arakan from western Burma and annex that region into newly formed neighbouring East Pakistan (present-day Bangladesh).[4]

Rohingya groups were again active during the period of the Bangladesh Liberation War in 1971. Recently, during the Arakan State Riots, the aspiration of the Rohingya militant groups, according to various media reports, is to create northern part of Arakan an independent or autonomous state.In 2012, Rohingya emigres in exile declared the creation of the "Islamic Republic of Rahmanland", located in the north of Rakhine State.[7]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rohingya_insurgency_in_Western_Burma

jank

Can we blame the West yet for their plight?

Nodin

DeadHand wrote: »

Obviously their plight is shocking.

A glance at the bigger picture here would tell us that Muslims do not tend to integrate well where they are a minority (France, Nigeria, China) and minorities do not tend to prosper where they are in the majority (Eygpt, Syria, Iraq, Iran). .

"I had not known that throughout history, the Jews had been expelled from 79 countries, some countries more than once."
http://www.rense.com/general80/whj.htm

"But if the authorities are reluctant to use force and restrain the Jews’ devilish wantonness, the latter should, as we said, be expelled from the country and be told to return to their land and their possessions in Jerusalem, where they may lie, curse, blaspheme, defame, murder, steal, rob, practice usury, mock, and indulge in all those infamous abominations which they practice among us, and leave us our government, our country, our life, and our property, much more leave our Lord the Messiah, our faith, and our church undefiled and uncontaminated with their devilish tyranny and malice. Any privileges that they may plead shall not help them; for no one can grant privileges for practicing such abominations. These cancel and abrogate all privileges"
http://jdstone.org/cr/files/martin_luther/onthejewsandtheirlies11.html
Go back to Saudi' indeed.

DeadHand wrote:

What is it about Islam that it does not seem to encourage harmonious
co-existence with those of different faiths (or of a "heretical" Islamic faith)
and allows it to be interpreted in such murderous ways? ISIS, for example, have
strong doctrinal justification for their crimes.

"I suddenly recognized that if Hitler had developed a "Final Solution" to the Jewish question, that there had to have been a "Jewish Problem." Could the Jews have in any way behaved in such a manner that would make the countries in which they resided turn against them, or were they just unfortunate, innocent victims? "
http://www.rense.com/general80/whj.htm

"Oh, how fond they are of the book of Esther, which is so beautifully attuned to their bloodthirsty, vengeful, murderous yearning and hope. The sun has never shone on a more bloodthirsty and vengeful people than they are who imagine that they are God’s people who have been commissioned and commanded to murder and to slay the Gentiles. In fact, the most important thing that they expect of their Messiah is that he will murder and kill the entire world with their sword. They treated us Christians in this manner at the very beginning through out all the world. They would still like to do this if they had the power, and often enough have made the attempt, for which they have got their snouts boxed lustily. "
http://jdstone.org/cr/files/martin_luther/onthejewsandtheirlies02.html

Sounds all too familiar to me.

DeadHand

^^^^

Yeah, that's a nonsensical comparison.

My own humble musing didn't give any reasons for the facts stated, didn't label Muslims as anything and certainly didn't suggest a holocaust as a justifiable solution.

The fact still stands. Muslim communities are not, generally, integrating well where they are in the minority and minority groups do not fare well in Muslim majority countries.

In my own opinion, this is because Islam, in its devoutest forms, is simply incompatible with Western democracy and all that true democracy entails- tolerance, liberty, equality- and not because Muslims are inherently prone to "devilish wantoness" anymore or less than the adherents of any other faith.

The few half-functioning secular democracies in the Muslim world mostly require a strong military to forcibly maintain that secular democracy. Minority religious groups tend to live with far greater security in these militarily enforced secular democracies or even the dictatorships than the surrounding theocracies or Sharia plagued failed states.

Outside the periphery of the Muslim world, in states with sizable Muslim minorities, these states often suffer extremely violent Islamic separatist or revolutionary movements (Nigeria, Chad, Russia, China, India).

All this would suggest that a great many Muslims do not wish to live in democracies or in societies where their beliefs are not dominant and enshrined in law. We see the beginnings of this in Europe with Sharia patrols in London and Germany, religiously supremacist Muslim rape gangs targeting indigenous children in Northern England and the fact that, in a civilisation where nothing was sacred or safe from mockery, it is now physically dangerous to criticise or satirise Islam.

The total acceptance of Islam as a sacred, unquestionable thing is being forced upon non-Muslims at the point of the knife and gun. Europe is (with honourable exception) submitting to this intimidation. What will the next submission demanded of us be? Where will it end? Appeasement of fascism does not work and leads to greater demands. Militant Islam is just that: fascism.

Since you insist on bringing the Jews into it; their ancient communities are dwindling and disappearing in European cities (most notably in Malmo and Paris) under harassment and intimidation from the burgeoning Muslim populations there. Jews are being persecuted to an extent not seen in Europe since the 40s by an unholy alliance of the ever present European extreme Right and imported Islamic Anti-Semitism. The extreme Right are very much the junior partner in this alliance.

wes

IamNotNumber wrote: »

Recently, during the Arakan State Riots, the aspiration of the Rohingya militant groups, according to various media reports, is to create northern part of Arakan an independent or autonomous state.In 2012, Rohingya emigres in exile declared the creation of the "Islamic Republic of Rahmanland", located in the north of Rakhine State.[7]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rohingya_insurgency_in_Western_Burma

The intercept has cast doubt on the existence of these terror groups:

In Myanmar, Muslims Arrested for Joining Terror Group That Doesn’t Exist

Wouldn't be the first time that a military regime invented a terror group to arrest members of a minority.

I think the following quote from the article is rather interesting:

The existence of the “Myanmar Muslim Army” has not been confirmed by terrorism experts, human rights groups, or the U.S. State Department. Rohan Gunaratna, who heads the International Centre for Political Violence and Terrorism Research in Singapore, is the only one to have mentioned it, though fleetingly — he wrote in a recent report that “there also have been unconfirmed reports about the emergence of a new group called Myanmar Muslim Army (MMA), which is reportedly using Thai territory for training Myanmar Muslims.”

Nodin

DeadHand wrote: »

^^^^

Yeah, that's a nonsensical comparison.

............

....using the plight of some persecuted muslims to rant about muslims, and using being called out on it to rant yet more about muslims......

LadyFenghuang

Nodin wrote: »

....using the plight of some persecuted muslims to rant about muslims, and using being called out on it to rant yet more about muslims......

Well said.
I don't know anything about this group nor have I heard of them before now.

But much of the excuses for apathy towards them have nothing to do with them. Actions of other Muslims don't justify anything happening to them.

You can't help everyone , you do what you can.

I can't add much of value to this I am so unfamiliar with this group of people.

But I do know Burma is not a good place to live. Under all dictatorships minorities and the majority suffer. The majority might be consoled that they do not suffer as much as the minority. But that is still not freedom. And they adopt the prejudice of their own depressor towards that minority. Not knowing this case I can only speak in universals mostly.

Ang Su ki is someone I respect if she is silent on this issue it's very wrong.

DeadHand

Nodin wrote: »

....using the plight of some persecuted muslims to rant about muslims, and using being called out on it to rant yet more about muslims......

I made a broader point that related closely to the issue being discussed and then explained and defended it in great detail.

All you've done is make smug, personal digs and tar me as a bigot by making a bizarre comparison.

You haven't countered a single point I made and, as usual, contributed nothing but smug snark and nasty personal attacks.

Nodin

DeadHand wrote: »

I made a broader point that related closely to the issue being discussed and then explained and defended it in great detail.
............

No, you used this issue as a soapbox, tried to tar all muslims with the same brush etc. Shameful, really.