Anyone not going to college

Anyone not planning on going to college or does anyone know anyone not planning on going to college and who is going to get a job after school particularly anyone with an average to good leaving cert.

We see to be on the way to becoming the most over educated nation in the world, There was an article in Saturdays Irish time saying 30% of people in Ireland are over qualified for the job they do. Its at least 15 years since I met a young person who rejected college and got a job after school and that was to train to be a chef every single school leaver seem to be going to college ( maybe slight exaggeration ).

If at one time you could get a job as a trainee reporter after secondary school why do you need a master in journalism today or if you could work in banking with just secondary education as little as 20 year ago why would you need a degree to do the same job today.

Are too many people going to college.

tigger123

There's an element of an educational arms race to it. If you're competing against other people the in the jobs market and they have a degree or masters, there's a chance they'll be ahead of you in the employers eyes.

A primary degree now is what the leaving cert was 30 years ago.

Menas

Its no harm IMO. Going in to the workforce at 17/18 is too young for many. Life is for enjoying at that age and further education is both fun and good for your future prospects.
Of course, you can have fun at that age on the dole too....but lets not open that can of worms.

tigger123

Menas wrote: »

Its no harm IMO. Going in to the workforce at 17/18 is too young for many. Life is for enjoying at that age and further education is both fun and good for your future prospects.
Of course, you can have fun at that age on the dole too....but lets not open that can of worms.

Very true, a lot of fun can be had at third level. You'll have the rest of your life to carry responsibility. Enjoy it!

Over all the higher your level of education the more you will be paid, however that's not the full story if third level straight form school for every body was the answer how come other countries are not perusing it as an objective, plus if you didn't go to college at 18 it does not mean you will never go and get a third level education, one of my sister did her degree in her forties while holding down a full time job.

There is a huge drop out rate for some courses which must be a big wast of money and a waste of time talent and effort on the students part as well.

whiskeyman

College wasn't just about academic learning for me.
It was more about social interaction, life experiences, maturing as a person and a lot of good times!
I'd value a lot of the latter more, as I know they've helped me secure more jobs than my actual education has.

TerrorFirmer

To be honest you seem to be trying to convince yourself that a degree isn't needed. No-one is saying that a degree is essential but it's certainly a huge help, going out into the workforce after the leaving and you will realistically be fighting an uphill battle for most jobs.

And simply being 'overqualified' for the job doesn't mean that you still didn't need a degree or qualification to get the job in the first place. My job required a Masters but could easily be done by a bright individual without any qualifications - but they'll never know either way, because they'll never get their foot in the door without one.

The Dark Side

Anyone I know who didn't go to college either works in back-breaking manual labour, in mind-numbingly dull production line work or is unemplayed.

I've a degree, make more money than any of them, plus get to sit in a nice modern office and surf the internet all day.

Mr. Incognito

College, and particularly the opening up of free college led to a modernisation of Ireland. The widespread liberlisation of the marriage referendum would pay testament to that where it was a criminal act to be a practicising homosexual 40 years ago in Ireland.

It destroyed the Catholic Church as people learned, in the main, to think about themselves, the world, and each other and not just follow dogma blindly from their "Betters" be that Church, State, Garda, etc.

College is about teaching people to think, to interact, to explore, to be self sufficient, in a way that a secondary school education cannot as they are simply too immature.

It also has lead to the break down of social and religions barriers.

I went to colege in 2001. The first four weddings I went to from my college groups were Protestants marrying Catholics that had met in college. This is only a few years after the ceasefire. Whilst it was nothing to them it was a huge deal for their famililies to come together and build lasting friendships and a united community.

People who do not experience life outside their parish, be that travelling or college become insular, parochial and bigoted in my experience.

TerrorFirmer

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

To be honest you seem to be trying to convince yourself that a degree isn't needed. No-one is saying that a degree is essential but it's certainly a huge help, going out into the workforce after the leaving and you will realistically be fighting an uphill battle for most jobs.

And simply being 'overqualified' for the job doesn't mean that you still didn't need a degree or qualification to get the job in the first place. My job required a Masters but could easily be done by a bright individual without any qualifications - but they'll never know either way, because they'll never get their foot in the door without one.

While you are correct in lot so ways it is more complicated than that, I have said this several time already, my daughter is in a job in the Uk in a financial institution when she has been promoted, she has no degree as she dropped out of college her cousins girlfriend has a similar job in Dublin and you simply would not be interviewed for the same job here with our a degree, that means there is something wrong with the system here.

jonnypacket

Absolutely. Practical experience wins over four years spent sipping frappacinos on a couch in Trinity everytime. Anybody who chooses to study journalism in particular is a fool. The industry is on its last legs and has largely been replaced by clickbait churnalism online.

You won't be qualified for anything. "Follow your dreams" is airy fairy hippy talk from people who have never had to look for a job.

jonnypacket

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

People who do not experience life outside their parish, be that travelling or college become insular, parochial and bigoted in my experience.

There you have it folks - people who don't travel are bigots. Those 2 weeks drinking beer on the beach in Santa Ponsa really broadened my horizons and opened up my mind.

Grayson

mariaalice wrote: »

While you are correct in lot so ways it is more complicated than that, I have said this several time already, my daughter is in a job in the Uk in a financial institution when she has been promoted, she has no degree as she dropped out of college her cousins girlfriend has a similar job in Dublin and you simply would not be interviewed for the same job here with our a degree, that means there is something wrong with the system here.

I worked in a call centre where they would only accept applications from people who had 1 years previous experience in a call centre. Part of this was because they received so many applications. I know for 40 positions they advertised they received over 1000 applications. And that's with the filter of 1 years experience.

There was one department in Customer service that had three people with PhD's.

For HR degrees can be a filter system. Get the 1000 applicants for a particular position down to something manageable

mariaalice

mariaalice wrote: »

]
We see to be on the way to becoming the most over educated nation in the world

I don't think there's such a thing as over educated. Over qualified, certainly.

I don't think education is something you can overdo, formal or informal. Unless it's just an excuse to avoid working.

Hermy

Menas wrote: »

Going in to the workforce at 17/18 is too young for many.

Going to college at 17/ 18 is too young for some.
At that age I hadn't a clue what I wanted to do with the rest of my life.
Yet I was presented with these life choices and expected me to know exactly what to choose.
And all these years later I'm only now getting an idea of what I'd really like to do with myself.

_Brian

I agree that we are over educating our workforce. But the ball is rolling and employers expectations have somewhat been raised and the bar is set that many or most decent jobs require a college education.

OP, perhaps you could look towards an apprentiship if college isn't for you.

I spent a few years hiring for a large MN company here and can honestly say that in general folk coming in with apprentiship background were more rounded employees than bare college grads.

Menas

Hermy wrote: »

Going to college at 17/ 18 is too young for some.
At that age I hadn't a clue what I wanted to do with the rest of my life.
Yet I was presented with these life choices and expected me to know exactly what to choose.
And all these years later I'm only now getting an idea of what I'd really like to do with myself.

That is true-everyone matures at different rates.....but its not realistic to keep repeating your leaving cert until you do reach maturity!

Bridge93

I'd rather be over qualified than under qualified

_Brian

_Brian wrote: »

I agree that we are over educating our workforce. But the ball is rolling and employers expectations have somewhat been raised and the bar is set that many or most decent jobs require a college education.

OP, perhaps you could look towards an apprentiship if college isn't for you.

I spent a few years hiring for a large MN company here and can honestly say that in general folk coming in with apprentiship background were more rounded employees than bare college grads.

Well for areas like MandE engraining I would think dong an apprenticeship first than going to college would make you supper employable and probably a better way of doing it for some people.

Hermy

Menas wrote: »

That is true-everyone matures at different rates.....but its not realistic to keep repeating your leaving cert until you do reach maturity!

Who said anything about repeating the leaving cert? And what it has to do with maturity is beyond me.

I'm talking about the way further education, careers etc are presented to us at that age in school.
It seems like we simply must know what we want to do with ourselves or else.
And for those of us who are not driven be a desire to climb the careers ladder and seek our goals elsewhere in life there is no real guidance.

Grayson

Menas wrote: »

That is true-everyone matures at different rates.....but its not realistic to keep repeating your leaving cert until you do reach maturity!

A few years working helps though. I have plenty of friends who are mature students. They went back and did stuff like law, psychotherapy, programming etc... At 18 they had no real idea what they wanted to do. For a few of them it's actually their second degree because they never used the fist one.

Menas

Hermy wrote: »

Who said anything about repeating the leaving cert? And what it has to do with maturity is beyond me.

I'm talking about the way further education, careers etc are presented to us at that age in school. It seems like we simply must know what we want to do with ourselves or else.
And for those of us who are not driven be a desire to climb the careers ladder and seek our goals elsewhere in life there is no real guidance.

Huh? If someone reaches 18 and is not mature enough for the workforce and not mature enough to decide on what college course to do then that has everything to do with maturity!

TerrorFirmer

I dropped out of college initially and worked for a few years, went back and did a degree, worked again, then a diploma, worked another while then did a masters. Now working again, but still not sure if I'm where I want to be. Considering going back and doing something else. It can be really tough to find a place that you want to be. Being shoved into college at 17 definitely is no help.

languagenerd

mariaalice wrote: »

If at one time you could get a job as a trainee reporter after secondary school why do you need a master in journalism today or if you could work in banking with just secondary education as little as 20 year ago why would you need a degree to do the same job today.

Part of the reason is that there's just not enough jobs to go round in certain fields, particularly in entry-level roles after the recession and the JobBridge fiasco. So if there are 100 or even 1000 applicants for a job, those with degrees will be considered before those without one (unless they have outstanding experience, which a school leaver probably doesn't). It's just competition now, you need as many or more feathers in your bow as the next applicant.

But in certain fields, like the two you mentioned, you can see why employers pick graduates over school-leavers. If you had the choice between hiring someone with only the LC and no post-school experience or someone who spent a few years studying finance or journalism, who already knows the basic skills required and understands the industry as a whole, who probably did work placements in related companies - you'd pick the latter without a minute's hesitation. You would have to spend far less time training them and they're less likely to make a mistake that would seriously damage your business.

lickme

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

I dropped out of college initially and worked for a few years, went back and did a degree, worked again, then a diploma, worked another while then did a masters. Now working again, but still not sure if I'm where I want to be. Considering going back and doing something else. It can be really tough to find a place that you want to be. Being shoved into college at 17 definitely is no help.

I'm in the same boat. I thought I liked I.T but it is constant study and doing I.T exams for the rest of your life. You don't have to study or do the exams but you will fall way behind others salary wise. Companies using it as an excuse not too give pay rises and other companies won't give you a job without them and some need to be renewed every three years. And of couse there's lads that study 24/7 who do nothing but study. 27 now and thinking of going as a mature student to do teaching. I don't want to spend any time outside the feck in office studying

TerrorFirmer

Funny enough, I'm the same age and considering the exact same move career move.

Hermy

Menas wrote: »

Huh? If someone reaches 18 and is not mature enough for the workforce and not mature enough to decide on what college course to do then that has everything to do with maturity!

I'm not talking about not being mature enough for the workforce or college.
Indeed I'm not even talking about maturity.

I'm talking about the choices people are given aged 17/ 18 and how those choices are presented.
Parents, teachers and careers advisers just expect us to know what we want to do with the rest of our lives.
And if we don't know, if we're not ready to make those decisions, if we're not mature enough (in which case we probably won't even know we're not mature enough) what then?
Is anyone advising people not to fret if they haven't got their mind made up what they want to do come the leaving cert? That not knowing your chosen path in life is no harm? That there's plenty of time later on to make those choices if you aren't ready to make them before you finish school.

I just think the way these choices are presented at that age can blind people to the full range of possibilities their future might hold.

lickme

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

Funny enough, I'm the same age and considering the exact same move career move.

You in I.T?

lickme

I was not mature till I was around 21 I'd say. I was a frickin idiot at 18. Biggest mistake I made was not taking a year out after the leaving cert. Probably the most immature person you could have met.

kerash

Menas wrote: »

That is true-everyone matures at different rates.....but its not realistic to keep repeating your leaving cert until you do reach maturity!

I don't agree that knowing what college course to do is a gauge of maturity!! What's not realistic is to expect everyone to flourish in a 'one size fits all' education system.

Menas

kerash wrote: »

I don't agree that knowing what college course to do is a gauge of maturity!! What's not realistic is to expect everyone to flourish in a 'one size fits all' education system.

You are right. The one size fits all will always leave some behind...and that is a shame. I would love to know if any other countries haev cracked this nut.
I suppose the US have tried to by having a basic primary degree before specialising...but that is only for kids who make it to Uni in the first place...

cloud493

I tried college three times now, and its just not for me. Add in the fact I'm a single parent now with a kid to look after, I'm happy just working, figuring out what my next step is.