Why is there sometimes snobbery towards IT's?

Lollipop95

As opposed to universities? I've often read for example that people should aim to go to NUIG instead of GMIT - even though both colleges have great employment rates and GMIT is considered one of the best colleges in the country.

So why if you go to a university are you deemed, smarter, I guess?

LivingDeadGirl

Because people who go there can't punctuate? :P

Mister Vain

I thought they were all the same.

diusmr8a504cvk

Example: You need honours maths for Game design in UL you don't for LIT. People then think if someone is doing it in LIT that they're not smart.

Birneybau

I love TITS.

jaymcg91

They were lesser though, years ago right? Now they're all equal but old attitudes die hard, or something I guess.

diusmr8a504cvk

Op, if you were told you could do Engineering in UL or LIT regardless of your points which would you pick?

mocha please!

Some employers actually much prefer IT students, they tend to have more practical experience.

DareGod

Lollipop95 wrote: »

As opposed to universities? I've often read for example that people should aim to go to NUIG instead of GMIT - even though both colleges have great employment rates and GMIT is considered one of the best colleges in the country.

So why if you go to a university are you deemed, smarter, I guess?

Perhaps it's because the universities were there first and, therefore, (especially internationally) they have an established reputation, whereas the ITs don't.

Also, perhaps the standard of education has been established to be better, or the exams tougher, in universities?

Nesta99

Accounting and Finance courses at DkIT and DCU receive more exemptions from professional exams than any other Higher Education acility and the same as each other.

DareGod

Nesta99 wrote: »

Accounting and Finance courses at DkIT and DCU receive more exemptions from professional exams than any other Higher Education acility and the same as each other.

I don't understand this. What does this mean / indicate?

For Forks Sake

DareGod wrote: »

I don't understand this. What does this mean / indicate?

You can elect to spend a number of years in either Ballymun or Dundalk. Sophies choice.

The Backwards Man

Historically it was like this;

University students went to the next county to piss their parents' money up against the wall.

IT students went to the next town.

Icaras

Either way your all scum with your Dutch gold and pot noodles (I miss my student days).

eternal

I've done undergrad in both an IT and a University. Students are richer in the unis and more snobby, most of their family would also be educated. The hours in ITs are longer and the lecturers make less money so are always in bad form. Universities are more established and prestigious with better received reference. The staff in unis from personal experience are more relaxed and better educated and easier to approach. There is good and bad in both. It would also depend on location. I went to GMIT so there were a lot of people from rural places who were very laid back and easy to get on with. I presume places in Dublin etc would have different people and different attitudes.
Academically speaking, you would be better off going to a University also depending on what you study. A lot of people start off in ITs then work up to Unis. Points are less in an IT so you have to ask yourself why?

Captain Chaos

eternal wrote: »

. . Points are less in an IT so you have to ask yourself why?

The points system is pure supply and demand once you have the minimum subject grade entry requirements. More people still think that Uni's have a higher rating stat. ITs tend to be larger and have more class/course places in general.

eternal

Captain Chaos wrote: »

The points system is pure supply and demand once you have the minimum subject grade entry requirements. More people still think that Uni's have a higher rating stat. ITs tend to be larger and have more class/course places in general.

Yes. I've nothing against either anyway cos I've been on both sides.

Darpa

I didn't realise there was anymore and I've been to both. Maybe from people who are currently completely out of touch with modern third level in Ireland.

IT's have come a long way in the last 20 years. Some of their facilitates and equipment are fantastic now compared to the universities.

In general, Universities are strong in the traditional university subjects, whereas IT's are stronger in the newer and practical professional technologies.

All third level institutions offer good and bad courses, your time would be far better spent doing a background check on the actual course on offer, and its lecturers, not just the college / university.

Savvy employers are more interested in the individuals abilities and experience, rather than which particular college they went to.

Peregrine

For Forks Sake wrote: »

You can elect to spend a number of years in either Ballymun or Dundalk. Sophies choice.

Ahem..it's in Glasnevin

bogwalrus

I just finished first year in CIT and the truth is that UCC departments have to send pupils to CIT to get hands on lab experience. As an example. In ucc there is one microscope for every ten pupils. In CIT everyone gets a microscope. That's the analogy I was given by a CIT professor.

eternal

Facilities are very important alright. The catering in Tralee is the best in the country while most people would be thinking they should go to DIT or something.

RDM_83 again

Well if its outside the hallowed walls of the Collegium Sanctae et Individuae Trinitatis Reginae Elizabethae juxta Dublin its full of barely educated peasants who would be more productive spending their time learning a skill that would set them up better for a career in the service of their betters, something like housekeeping, stableboying, pantry wenching or for cream head butlering.
Gets tweed jacket

(I am waiting for Angus's post about Max Planks and the German education system though)

eternal

RDM_83 again wrote: »

Well if its outside the hallowed walls of the Collegium Sanctae et Individuae Trinitatis Reginae Elizabethae juxta Dublin its full of barely educated peasants who would be more productive spending their time learning a skill that would set them up better for a career in the service of their betters, something like housekeeping, stableboying, pantry wenching or for cream head butlering.
Gets tweed jacket

(I am waiting for Angus's post about Max Planks and the German education system though)

Did you fall into a Thomas Hardy novel there son? What's wrong with Trinity now?

Darpa

eternal wrote: »

Did you fall into a Thomas Hardy novel there son? What's wrong with Trinity now?

Probably didn't get into trinity and had to go to UCD instead. The shame of it.

Nesta99

DareGod wrote: »

I don't understand this. What does this mean / indicate?

After graduating from accounting it is necessary to take professional exams to become a registered accountant with either ACCA OR CIMA. There a 9 or 10 modules to be taken and examined. Of all the accountancy courses available the professional bodies grant exemptions to some of those who have studied for an undergraduate degree. If you graduate from DCU of DkIT a greater number of exemptions are granted than any other institutions. Hence the professional bodies consider the undergraduates from DCU and DkIT on a par with eachother or better skilled than those from any other institution. The academic snobbery you refer to tends to be among fellow students - Trinity students tending to believe their are an elite. In reality employers do not follow this same pattern and degree classification, your transcripts, tutors's reference, and some extracurricular activity are all considered before the badge of your college/uni. It is often said that IT students have a better rounded education and have tended to be more involved in activity outside academia. Uni students tend to focus on academic results only. I have studied under both enviornments and enjoyed both for different reasons but the IT was less stressful and cut throat competitive among fellow classmates. Hence a nicer experience!

alroley

I did a course in LIT and my friend did the same one in UL. Both were 4 years long but I had way longer hours and actually did more modules than her. But of course my degree is considered not as good as hers by many

eternal

Darpa wrote: »

Probably didn't get into trinity and had to go to UCD instead. The shame of it.

I got into Trinity. It only took me two courses but I still got there. I wouldn't say it means much though. Although it did make me happy. (Yes I was a waster in school)

Mr_Muffin

Just another way for people to try make themselves feel superior to others.

RDM_83 again

Darpa wrote: »

Probably didn't get into trinity and had to go to UCD instead. The shame of it.

No I'm alumni so I am allowed to say it
That said having been to an NUI college later I do actually think TCD is a hell of a lot more rigorous in terms of exams and AFAIK the IT's can be worse in terms of actioning plagiarism and so on

http://connachttribune.ie/gmit-vow-silence-plagiarism-probe/

edit: also spent sometime in UCD, the building I was in won the Irish Concrete federation award 1979 :-o

eternal

RDM_83 again wrote: »

No I'm alumni so I am allowed to say it
That said having been to an NUI college later I do actually think TCD is a hell of a lot more rigorous in terms of exams and AFAIK the IT's can be worse in terms of actioning plagiarism and so on

http://connachttribune.ie/gmit-vow-silence-plagiarism-probe/

edit: also spent sometime in UCD, the building I was in won the Irish Concrete federation award 1979 :-o

What are they like with research based courses? Are you glad you went there?

Darpa

RDM_83 again wrote: »

No I'm alumni so I am allowed to say it
That said having been to an NUI college later I do actually think TCD is a hell of a lot more rigorous in terms of exams and AFAIK the IT's can be worse in terms of actioning plagiarism and so on

edit: also spent sometime in UCD, the building I was in won the Irish Concrete federation award 1979 :-o

my you are sore . . .

Bridge93

I would imagine the snobbery comes from, in my experience anyway, the smarter students in school go to Uni and those who didn't get in went to the IT. This was especially clear for me at the end of the Leaving Cert regarding business courses or law ones. These were where many students in my year wanted to go (classic South Dublin). The points were higher in the uni's so those brightest got into ucd etc and those who had the same courses on the CAO but not enough points went to DIT.
I can't speak for the rest of Ireland just the small area I came from.

Darpa

Bridge93 wrote: »

I would imagine the snobbery comes from, in my experience anyway, the smarter students in school go to Uni and those who didn't get in went to the IT. This was especially clear for me at the end of the Leaving Cert regarding business courses or law ones. These were where many students in my year wanted to go (classic South Dublin). The points were higher in the uni's so those brightest got into ucd etc and those who had the same courses on the CAO but not enough points went to DIT.
I can't speak for the rest of Ireland just the small area I came from.

The ironic thing is a lot of them end up working for those who went to IT's

RDM_83 again

eternal wrote: »

What are they like with research based courses? Are you glad you went there?

Not really sure was doing semi-taught courses or research work, the plagiarism thing about the IT's is just something I know about as I was in Galway at the time. Sligo IT has a very good rep in the area I work in now but its meant to be inconsistent year to year.

eternal

Bridge93 wrote: »

I would imagine the snobbery comes from, in my experience anyway, the smarter students in school go to Uni and those who didn't get in went to the IT. This was especially clear for me at the end of the Leaving Cert regarding business courses or law ones. These were where many students in my year wanted to go (classic South Dublin). The points were higher in the uni's so those brightest got into ucd etc and those who had the same courses on the CAO but not enough points went to DIT.
I can't speak for the rest of Ireland just the small area I came from.

That can't be true as I got offers from both ITs and University from school but choose the IT. Who would have known how smart I was?

eternal

RDM_83 again wrote: »

Not really sure was doing semi-taught courses or research work, the plagiarism thing about the IT's is just something I know about as I was in Galway at the time. Sligo IT has a very good rep in the area I work in now but its meant to be inconsistent year to year.

All written work now has to go through an online system and it rated on percentile references. Nobody gets away with plagiarism.

Bridge93

eternal wrote: »

That can't be true as I got offers from both ITs and University from school but choose the IT. Who would have known how smart I was?

On your CAO you would have been offered one Level 8 and one level 6/7 unless the system has changed.
I'm saying generally in the school I was in more or less everyone put the universities top of the CAO with IT courses a bit further down. Those who got the points got into Uni. Those who didn't went to IT.

Because back in the day NUI degrees were seen as the law/medecine/commerce type, guaranteed to get a good job, and ITs were seen as more for the manual stuff, the construction studies type ones. I say that without a hint of snobbishness, I'd like to be earning the money some of my IT friends are making, but that was the perceived wisdom of the 80s and very early 90s anyway.

Darpa

No one who went to trinity has ever done anything dodgy in the history of the state, didn't you know ?

Stepping Stone

bogwalrus wrote: »

I just finished first year in CIT and the truth is that UCC departments have to send pupils to CIT to get hands on lab experience. As an example. In ucc there is one microscope for every ten pupils. In CIT everyone gets a microscope. That's the analogy I was given by a CIT professor.

Don't believe a word of what you hear about CIT/UCC from staff or students in either one. I went to UCC, my boyfriend went to CIT. The number of bizarre stories he heard about UCC were ridiculous. Like, random stuff like the library hadn't enough books (what one does?), or there weren't enough computers for everyone (ditto CIT).

He was there when they went on a building spree, which made them superior to UCC, except UCC was getting a new building annually...it made no sense to judge anything on actual buildings!

One of his lecturers left to work in UCC and was referred to as a traitor, even though he got his degree and PhD from UCC. Petty, childish stuff.

If you are talking about microscopes, I suspect that you must be referring to bio med, etc. UCC students take themselves off to CIT for lab work for a few years, then the CIT students make a permanent move to UCC for their degrees. Joint programmes.

In my opinion, they are like competitive neighbours. Neither lot knows much about the other but is happy to bad mouth them anyway. Too close together and too similar. Realistically, you do not need two places doing virtually identical courses less than a few kms apart.

Darpa

Stepping Stone wrote: »

In my opinion, they are like competitive neighbours. Neither lot knows much about the other but is happy to bad mouth them anyway.

you mean the students are

eternal

There is no possessive apostrophe in labeling the plural of a technical college, please let it be noted in a thread about education. A college is not a person. Thank you.

The Pheasant2

eternal wrote: »

That can't be true as I got offers from both ITs and University from school but choose the IT. Who would have known how smart I was?

Be that as it may, in general university students will have higher points than IT students in similar courses hence the assumption that if you're in an IT there's a decent chance it's because you didn't achieve the points for a university course. This is, of course, nonsense. However it'd appear to me to be the primary source of any superiority complex amongst uni students.

eternal

Stepping Stone wrote: »

Don't believe a word of what you hear about CIT/UCC from staff or students in either one. I went to UCC, my boyfriend went to CIT. The number of bizarre stories he heard about UCC were ridiculous. Like, random stuff like the library hadn't enough books (what one does?), or there weren't enough computers for everyone (ditto CIT).

He was there when they went on a building spree, which made them superior to UCC, except UCC was getting a new building annually...it made no sense to judge anything on actual buildings!

One of his lecturers left to work in UCC and was referred to as a traitor, even though he got his degree and PhD from UCC. Petty, childish stuff.

If you are talking about microscopes, I suspect that you must be referring to bio med, etc. UCC students take themselves off to CIT for lab work for a few years, then the CIT students make a permanent move to UCC for their degrees. Joint programmes.

In my opinion, they are like competitive neighbours. Neither lot knows much about the other but is happy to bad mouth them anyway. Too close together and too similar. Realistically, you do not need two places doing virtually identical courses less than a few kms apart.

Just pop into the toilets in UCC and you have the graffiti saying like wipe your ass with the **** that is CIT and all the rest.

Darpa

The Pheasant2 wrote: »

Be that as it may, in general university students will have higher points than IT students in similar courses hence the assumption that if you're in an IT there's a decent chance it's because you didn't achieve the points for a university course. This is, of course, nonsense. However it'd appear to me to be the primary source of any superiority complex amongst uni students.

There's a lot of excellent degrees that people want to do that are not offered in universities, so its not a "decent chance" at all.

Bridge93

Darpa wrote: »

There's a lot of excellent degrees that people want to do that are not offered in universities, so its not a "decent chance" at all.

Which is why he was talking about similar courses offered by both.

Darpa

Bridge93 wrote: »

Which is why he was talking about similar courses offered by both.

supply and demand, there are far more IT places

eternal

Darpa wrote: »

supply and demand, there are far more IT places

Where did you go yourself?

Darpa

eternal wrote: »

Where did you go yourself?

Universities for an under grad and a post grad, IT for another post grad. Why ?

The Pheasant2

Darpa wrote: »

There's a lot of excellent degrees that people want to do that are not offered in universities, so its not a "decent chance" at all.

You misunderstand me. I'm speaking with regard to similar courses in universities and ITs - for example if you take a large sample of students from Business and Law in UCD and compare their points with a sample from Business and Law in DIT I can guarantee you there's a more than decent chance the uni students will have higher points on average.

eternal

Darpa wrote: »

Universities for an under grad and a post grad, IT for another post grad. Why ?

No reason. I like to get to know the people I intend sleeping with.








*Joke.