Today consensus, tomorrows prejudice.

Dwarf.Shortage

When David Norris first mentioned gay marriage in the Seanad he was sneered at and ignored as if the idea was as preposterous as swimming to the sun. Twenty years later the Seanad was the leading light among the political institutions on the yes side.

What, if any, issue or group do you believe is treated in a manner today which twenty years hence when Ireland looks back will be seen as reprehensible and discriminatory?

Penny Tration

Hopefully the fact that women current have no bodily autonomy once they get pregnant.

frostyjacks

Catholics

eviltwin

Abortion, transgender issues have to be up there. Religion and schools too hopefully.

Dwarf.Shortage

frostyjacks wrote: »

Catholics

I'm not trying to bait you into a good ould Catholic bashing session but genuine question, could you expand on what you mean a little bit? I assume you mean good honest lay people being tarred with the mistakes of clergy and being attacked by aggressive atheists like Dawkins despite keeping their own council all their lives? or something like that.

The Backwards Man

That culchies are finally recognised as being infinitely superior to townies.

MouseTail

eviltwin wrote: »

Abortion, transgender issues have to be up there. Religion and schools too hopefully.

This, plus our system of direct provision, and the fact we still allow corporal punishment of children in the home.

stefanovich

eviltwin wrote: »

Abortion, transgender issues have to be up there. Religion and schools too hopefully.

I agree but probably for very different reasons. I think abortion should be only when the mother's life is in danger or extremely early in the term.

Transgender kids and hormone blocker to prevent puberty are all the rage in other more socially liberal countries. That is not somewhere we want to go. If an adult wants to get extreme surgery like that then let them but by no means should the tax payer foot the bill.

Transgendered people are usually extremely troubled people with very high post operation suicide rates. I'm not sure it is healthy mentally.

As for religion and schools, well, I think they should be separate.

wakka12

Honestly I think in 20 years(actually probably a little longer) anybody in the western world who is strongly religious will be seen as crazy. But I actually can't even think of one irish person in my friend group (aged 18-21) who even strongly believes theres an after life or god

stefanovich

MouseTail wrote: »

This, plus our system of direct provision

This is about illegal immigrants and giving them food and shelter rather than moeny?

stefanovich

wakka12 wrote: »

Honestly I think in 20 years(actually probably a little longer) anybody in the western world who is strongly religious will be seen as crazy. But I actually can't even think of one irish person in my friend group (aged 18-21) who even strongly believes theres an after life or god

Maybe when they get closer to death their opinions might change.

RichardoKhan

Tax avoidance by the super rich

Dwarf.Shortage

RichardoKhan wrote: »

Tax avoidance by the super rich

We live in a time of staunch advocacy for minorities, especially the 1%.

eviltwin

stefanovich wrote: »

Maybe when they get closer to death their opinions might change.

Smug and patronising, exactly what I left religion to avoid.

The Backwards Man

wakka12 wrote: »

Honestly I think in 20 years(actually probably a little longer) anybody in the western world who is strongly religious will be seen as crazy. But I actually can't even think of one irish person in my friend group (aged 18-21) who even strongly believes theres an after life or god

I don't know many 78-81 year olds that believe in an afterlife either, but they like to keep their options open all the same.:pac:

wakka12

stefanovich wrote: »

Maybe when they get closer to death their opinions might change.

Their beliefs wont change, their hope that there is an afterlife might get stronger though.

stefanovich

Grids and Arrows wrote: »

My uncle died of Cancer recently, he was an atheist all his life and insisted that no priests be at his funeral.

eviltwin wrote: »

Smug and patronising, exactly what I left religion to avoid.

There are a lot of young atheists who are atheists because they want to be part of a group and use it as a replacement for religion.

Funny fact, I am not baptised, I am not religious and I do not believe in God. Still doesn't mean a lot of these people will change their mind once past the rebellious phase.

jjC123

Abortion, definitely. I think transgender issues will take a long time but hopefully we'll get there.
And I'd like to think we'll see more gender balance in different professions (women in politics, men in childcare etc.)

It will also be interesting to see were medical ethics will go in terms of stem cell treatment/gene therapy and screening, 'designer babies', hormone treatment for transgender minors.

fiachr_a

Dwarf.Shortage wrote: »

What, if any, issue or group do you believe is treated in a manner today which twenty years hence when Ireland looks back will be seen as reprehensible and discriminatory?

Kids misdiagnosed with ADHD or Aspergers. Put on medication because they're too intelligent or can't cope in school with no male teachers, a future scandal.

eviltwin

stefanovich wrote: »

There are a lot of young atheists who are atheists because they want to be part of a group and use it as a replacement for religion.

Funny fact, I am not baptised, I am not religious and I do not believe in God. Still doesn't mean a lot of these people will change their mind once past the rebellious phase.

And all those people who are atheist long term, well into their middle age and beyond, are they just being rebels too?

eviltwin

fiachr_a wrote: »

Kids misdiagnosed with ADHD or Aspergers. Put on medication because they're too intelligent or can't cope in school with no male teachers, a future scandal.

You aren't diagnosed with Aspergers for being too intelligent or not having a male teacher. It's a social skills disorder, nothing to do with intelligence.

jjC123

fiachr_a wrote: »

Kids misdiagnosed with ADHD or Aspergers. Put on medication because they're too intelligent or can't cope in school with no male teachers, a future scandal.

I actually think that schools are doing a decent enough job at diagnosing kids to be honest. Most state employed child psychologists are very reluctant to "diagnose" children too quickly unless theres ample evidence of a problem. And most aren't put on medication, it's really so they can get a few hours with a resource teacher/ their own SNA.

Obviously, heaps of room for improvement but I think medicating children tends to be more because of parents wanting it than teachers and doctors.

Dwarf.Shortage

eviltwin wrote: »

And all those people who are atheist long term, well into their middle age and beyond, are they just being rebels too?

Mad b**tards not believing a benevolent zombie is going to appraise our lives and decided whether or not they should go on forever.

frostyjacks

Dwarf.Shortage wrote: »

I'm not trying to bait you into a good ould Catholic bashing session but genuine question, could you expand on what you mean a little bit? I assume you mean good honest lay people being tarred with the mistakes of clergy and being attacked by aggressive atheists like Dawkins despite keeping their own council all their lives? or something like that.

Yes, the intolerance and hostility towards people with religious beliefs, Catholic or otherwise. I don't mind people disagreeing with someone's opinion, but it should be respected nonetheless.

Harry Palmr

Todays prejudice, tomorrows consensus Shirley?

Control of publicly funded and legislated bodies such as schools and hospitals by religious bodies.

Assisted dying.

Transsexuals and related "in-between" groups.

jjC123

stefanovich wrote: »

There are a lot of young atheists who are atheists because they want to be part of a group and use it as a replacement for religion.

Funny fact, I am not baptised, I am not religious and I do not believe in God. Still doesn't mean a lot of these people will change their mind once past the rebellious phase.

Athiesm isn't really number one choice for a "rebellious" teenager, it's a logical choice for many (teens ARE capable of logic, despite evidence to the contrary).

Belly button piercings and binge drinking would be closer to the mark.

Roquentin

Dwarf.Shortage wrote: »

When David Norris first mentioned gay marriage in the Seanad he was sneered at and ignored as if the idea was as preposterous as swimming to the sun. Twenty years later the Seanad was the leading light among the political institutions on the yes side.

What, if any, issue or group do you believe is treated in a manner today which twenty years hence when Ireland looks back will be seen as reprehensible and discriminatory?

"The future belongs to those who prepare for it today." - Malcolm X

Pumpkinseeds

I'd like to see terminally ill people being allowed the right to assisted suicide. Currently we ignore those terminally ill people who exist in agonising pain who desperately want to end their lives but due to laws based on other people's ideas of morality, they are forced to endure that suffering.

cloud493

Well I'm age 22 and I firmly believe in god and the catholic faith. Well I say that, but abortion, gay marriage/rights, and the right to assisted suicide are things I'm supportive of.

stefanovich

eviltwin wrote: »

And all those people who are atheist long term, well into their middle age and beyond, are they just being rebels too?

What like me? No.

ScumLord

Drug use. I think people will look back on the twentieth century as a cautionary tale on how not to deal with drugs. It will be seen as a bizarre blip where people created a problem much worse than the one they were trying to solve all based on propaganda and false moral outrage.. They'll wonder why it took us nearly 100 years to see that prohibition was a terrible idea.

Dwarf.Shortage

ScumLord wrote: »

Drug use. I think people will look back on the twentieth century as a cautionary tale on how not to deal with drugs. It will be seen as a bizarre blip where people created a problem much worse than the one they were trying to solve all based on propaganda and false moral outrage.. They'll wonder why it took us nearly 100 years to see that prohibition was a terrible idea.

This x 1,000,000

Kiwi in IE

wakka12 wrote: »

Honestly I think in 20 years(actually probably a little longer) anybody in the western world who is strongly religious will be seen as crazy. But I actually can't even think of one irish person in my friend group (aged 18-21) who even strongly believes theres an after life or god

I'm a psychiatric nurse and it often strikes me as bizarre when I talk to clients who have fixed delusional beliefs, that they are given a medical diagnosis and put on anti psychotic medication, when their beliefs are no more crazy than religious beliefs, which sometimes the psychiatrist treating them holds (look at Patricia Casey! How is anyone expected to take her advice about delusion).

The definition of a delusion is a fixed, false belief. The American Psychiatric Association adds a get put clause for religion, stating that it must also be outside the norms of ones culture. But otherwise the definition fits perfectly and I fail to see why a mass delusion is any less delusional than an individual one. Religious beliefs are delusional. And I agree that one day they will be considered as such.

Edit; I'll just add to the above that I am not saying that I think in anyway that religious people should be diagnosed with a psychiatric illness or medicated, but their beliefs need to be kept to their churches, homes and privates lives and religious influence and reference to religious ideas should be removed from all state institutions.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

I don't know, it's a good question. There are a few issues on which I think the consensus and legislation will hugely change in the next couple of decades - transgender issues, euthanasia, and abortion most obviously. But they're hardly unthinkable.

Bear in mind that the world is very different than it was in the 90s. Even if things are one way here, people have much more and much easier access to information on how it is in other parts of the world thanks to the internet, that makes things easier to conceptualise.

PopePalpatine

stefanovich wrote: »

Transgender kids and hormone blocker to prevent puberty are all the rage in other more socially liberal countries. That is not somewhere we want to go. If an adult wants to get extreme surgery like that then let them but by no means should the tax payer foot the bill.

Transgendered people are usually extremely troubled people with very high post operation suicide rates. I'm not sure it is healthy mentally.

I'd imagine that the abuse transgender people put up with does no favours to their mental health.

_Brian

Many people throw up stuff about the schools/hospitals. The real reason this religious co management remains is primarily because the property is owned by the religious orders. The state can only force their will so far on this as they are incapable of funding replacement infrastructure as in government owned schools or hospitals. As a result we end up with this hodge podge system we have. Many new schools are put onto church owned lands and so it continues.

Personally I think the farcical system we have of dealing (or not dealing) with asylum seekers will soon be looked on as near inhuman. We have a responsibility to deal with these people, grant or deny asylum and be done, but instead we create what are like work houses or concentration camps, allow these poor souls to "exist" rather than have a life. Prostitution and child abuse is rife in these places and our society chooses to ignore it because in reality we just don't want to dirty our social hands making the big decisions. It's an embarrassment to our nation.

jobbridge4life

frostyjacks wrote: »

Catholics

You mean the endless supplication and baseless reverence? You are probably right.

frostyjacks

Regarding asylum seekers, if we're treating them so badly then why are so many them coming here? I'd love to be fed and watered and live rent free.

PopePalpatine

frostyjacks wrote: »

Regarding asylum seekers, if we're treating them so badly then why are so many them coming here? I'd love to be fed and watered and live rent free.

I doubt the average refugee knows about direct provision. I'd assume that northern/western Europe would be orders of magnitude more preferable than having Boko Haram/Al-Shabab/ISIS breathing down their neck.

Adamantium

Religious people may be considered crazy in 20 years time, but is that a good thing? Do we need the though police coming around even if it remains a private affair, to me personally the bigger questions are already way beyond private and we're afraid to hear little more than what we already know

It can be tough enough to broke chats about anything more than the superficial these days, it's actually being like this for years.

Consumerism, football, tech, movies all that is grand, but I'd hate a world where the wonderous and outthere elements are not at least entertained. People are afraid to talk about anything weird as it stands, it can only get worse.

Think of most workplace canteens. Dead aren't they? This is how I imagine the future realistically.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

frostyjacks wrote: »

Regarding asylum seekers, if we're treating them so badly then why are so many them coming here? I'd love to be fed and watered and live rent free.

Everyone who goes on about them having it easy and poor little them has it so hard having to have a job wouldn't last a month in a DP centre without cracking up, let alone years.

stefanovich

PopePalpatine wrote: »

I doubt the average refugee knows about direct provision. I'd assume that northern/western Europe would be orders of magnitude more preferable than having Boko Haram/Al-Shabab/ISIS breathing down their neck.

Or being in France. You see, Ireland and the UK is a final destination for a lot of these after entering Europe.

PopePalpatine

Maybe it's because they're more likely to speak English than French?

MrWalsh

Abortion without a doubt.

Euthanasia.

Drugs, yes definitely.

Although all of the above will probably take longer than 20 years to change.

Another area that I think will change as we learn more about both the physical and mental processes of the brain (in neuroscience and in philosophy of mind), is that we will treat some criminals differently. An example is someone like Ted Bundy. I think we can all agree that there was something "wrong" with him. Well I think at some point we will figure out what that "wrong" is and instead of putting people like him in jail or executing them we will treat them. A simplistic analogy is that is a brain tumor caused someone to hallucinate and do something bad we wouldn't blame the person, we would blame the brain tumor (there are cases of this actually happening).

I don't believe that the above applies to all criminality btw, but certainly there are cases where we might find explanations.

And finally, our treatment of animals. Zoos, sea world, circuses, factory farms, meat eating, scientific experimentation, etc... But I think that this one is probably the furthest away from being recognised and condemned.

wakka12

I think cosmetic surgery will also become very normalised too in future when it becomes cheaper and more advanced.

Merces

Transsexual rights. We're about thirty years behind the gays and lesbians.

jjC123

wakka12 wrote: »

I think cosmetic surgery will also become very normalised too in future when it becomes cheaper and more advanced.

This, but I think we're already coming full circle to less invasive surgical procedures and more minimally invasive treatments.

PowerToWait

MouseTail wrote: »

our system of direct provision

Utterly abhorrent and oppressive.

wakka12

Merces wrote: »

Transsexual rights. We're about thirty years behind the gays and lesbians.

This. Even more than 30 years tbh..most of the public aren't even aware of how badly transsexuals are treated even in the west due to them being quite a small minority. The murder rate of trans women of colour in the states is actually heart breaking, something like 1 in 4 are murdered before their 27th birthday

PowerToWait

frostyjacks wrote: »

Regarding asylum seekers, if we're treating them so badly then why are so many them coming here? I'd love to be fed and watered and live rent free.

You can get that in jail too. I personally know 5 people who have been in that system over 7 years.

Take yourself off to Mosney and live cheek by jowl with scores of others in the same boat, for say 5 years, with no end in sight, festering, 19 quid a week for a few bits.

These places are essentially concentration camps, in the strict sense of the phrase.

thee glitz

Aren't asylum seeker applications supposed to be processed in the first country they land in?
How do they get here, we shouldn't expect to have any.