Someone shoots endangered rhino claims to be helping it. Poll inside

steddyeddy

Someone shoots endangered rhino claims to be helping it. Is he deluded or was he really shooting this rhino for the good of the herd? Link here, article below and opinion on the next line.

I spent a lot of time in Africa in one country or another and I can tell you for that these two sentiments "the locals understand you have to kill elephants, rhinos ect and we're doing them a favour" and "the money goes to the local community" are both bullsh1t. The money goes to the government and they pocket it. Especially in Namibia. The second statement is self defeating. Why in the name of feck would local people want over privileged millionaires coming to their country and killing their national treasures. This doesn't mean I'm anti-hunting just anti hunting endangered animals and disguising your joy at killing one as a humanitarian effort.

A US hunter who paid $350,000 (£225,000) to kill a black rhino in Namibia has successfully shot the animal, saying his actions would help protect the critically endangered species.

Corey Knowlton, from Texas, downed the rhino with a high-powered rifle after a three-day hunt through the bush with government officials on hand to ensure he killed the correct animal. Knowlton, 36, won the right to shoot the rhino at an auction – attracting criticism, and even death threats, from conservationists.




He took a CNN camera crew on the hunt to try to show why he believed the killing was justified. “The whole world knows about this hunt and I think it’s extremely important that people know it’s going down the right way, in the most scientific way that it can possibly happen,” Knowlton told CNN.
“People have a problem just with the fact that I like to hunt … I want to see the black rhino as abundant as it can be. I believe in the survival of the species.”
Since 2012, Namibia has sold five licences a year to kill individual rhinos, saying the money is essential to fund conservation projects and anti-poaching protection.

silverfeather

I would like to shoot him for the good of our species.

steddyeddy

Rangers have died protecting these animals from animals like this man. Pretty scummy thing to do.

MathDebater

The rhino was an older male unable to reproduce who was chasing off younger males who were. It's not ideal but he needed to be taken out to ensure the survival of the nearly extinct black rhinos.

c_man

Imagine being rich, bored and stupid enough to apply for such a thing.

In that situation I hope I'd have enough sense left to blow my own brains out before descending to that level.

silverfeather

MathDebater wrote: »

The rhino was an older male unable to reproduce who was chasing off younger males who were. It's not ideal but he needed to be taken out to ensure the survival of the nearly extinct black rhinos.

Older males can reproduce. It's females that can't.

MathDebater

silverfeather wrote: »

Older males can reproduce. It's females that can't.

The rhino in question couldn't and was a threat to those that were.

Jimminy Mc Fukhead

I think their horns have many medicinal and magical powers.

steddyeddy

MathDebater wrote: »

The rhino was an older male unable to reproduce who was chasing off younger males who were. It's not ideal but he needed to be taken out to ensure the survival of the nearly extinct black rhinos.

Ah right so before humans arrived on the planet to kill older male rhinos they died out?

silverfeather

MathDebater wrote: »

The rhino in question couldn't and was a threat to those that were.

Sorry that is BS the gob****e bid at an auction.

Knowlton, 36, won the right to shoot the rhino at an auction in Dallas in early 2014 — attracting fierce criticism from many conservationists

It's pure spin to justify it.

He should be given the heretics fork then impaled and finally locked in a brazen bull for our amusement.

pablomakaveli

MathDebater wrote: »

The rhino was an older male unable to reproduce who was chasing off younger males who were. It's not ideal but he needed to be taken out to ensure the survival of the nearly extinct black rhinos.

I dont really understand why it couldn't have been just moved somewhere where it wouldn't be able to cause that problem. No need to kill it.

steddyeddy

MathDebater wrote: »

The rhino in question couldn't and was a threat to those that were.

Could you expand on your answer and tell me how many species have went extinct due to humans and how many due to older males?

Mint Aero

If it was for the best then it was for the best
If it wasn't then it wasn't and shouldn't be allowed. I'm not qualified enough on matters of endangered African species to make that call. I'll leave that to the resident AH foreign relations animal protector experts.

catallus

Well I watched the video and it was clear that the rhino was coming right at him.

miss tickle

steddyeddy wrote: »

Someone shoots endangered rhino claims to be helping it. Is he deluded or was he really shooting this rhino for the good of the herd? Link here, article below and opinion on the next line.

I spent a lot of time in Africa in one country or another and I can tell you for that these two sentiments "the locals understand you have to kill elephants, rhinos ect and we're doing them a favour" and "the money goes to the local community" are both bullsh1t. The money goes to the government and they pocket it. Especially in Namibia. The second statement is self defeating. Why in the name of feck would local people want over privileged millionaires coming to their country and killing their national treasures. This doesn't mean I'm anti-hunting just anti hunting endangered animals and disguising your joy at killing one as a humanitarian effort.

Namibia is one of the wealthiest countries in Africa, but it is unevenly distributed. The poverty in this country is dire due to corruption. This is a bull**** form of a very expensive selfie, which he can show the grand kids in a few years time.

MathDebater

steddyeddy wrote: »

Ah right so before humans arrived on the planet to kill older make rhinos they died out?

What?

The black rhino is 'critically endangered'. This guy couldn't reproduce and was attacking other younger males. He needed to go. Some bumblefcuk from Texas paid a huge fee to do so. Hopefully some of that goes back into helping the rhinos.

Not a NSA agent

catallus wrote: »

Well I watched the video and it was clear that the rhino was coming right at him.

A black rhino too, he must work as a cop.

steddyeddy

MathDebater wrote: »

What?

The black rhino is 'critically endangered'. This guy couldn't reproduce and was attacking other younger males. He needed to go.

Could you link me to the veterinary tests that state as such and the zoologist reports saying he was endangering the species?

silverfeather

MathDebater wrote: »

What?

The black rhino is 'critically endangered'. This guy couldn't reproduce and was attacking other younger males. He needed to go. Some bumblefcuk from Texas paid a huge fee to do so. Hopefully some of that goes back into helping the rhinos.

Plenty of zoos. Plenty of other places. It's BS. And there is huge debate about whether that was actually true or just some BS to excuse it.

osarusan

If Namibian conservationists could achieve that kind of funding without resorting to this, I'm sure they would.

It seems like they have no choice but to get their funding this way.

I don't really have anything other than contempt for people who hunt animals purely for sport, but I'd like to see some statistics on just what kind of conservation that funding actually helps to make possible.

MathDebater

pablomakaveli wrote: »

I dont really understand why it couldn't have been just moved somewhere where it wouldn't be able to cause that problem. No need to kill it.

Keeping him in a zoo or reservation costs a lot of money. Bumping him off brings in money.

silverfeather

osarusan wrote: »

If Namibian conservationists could achieve that kind of funding without resorting to this, I'm sure they would.

It seems like they have no choice but to get their funding this way.

I don't really have anything other than contempt for people who hunt animals purely for sport, but I'd like to see some statistics on just what kind of conservation that funding actually helps to make possible.

He could have donated the money.

silverfeather

MathDebater wrote: »

Keeping him in a zoo or reservation costs a lot of money. Bumping him off brings in money.

He should have given it.

steddyeddy

Yep if he wanted to help conservation he would have donated it. You know like a lot of the really rich people who do donate millions.

osarusan

silverfeather wrote: »

He could have donated the money.

He could, but I guess he wanted his trophy in exchange for the money. Again I'd say that if Namibian conservationists could get enough people to just donate this kind of money, they wouldn't run this kind of scheme in the first place.

That they have to run this kind of animal sacrifice/conservation effort is probably evidence of the lack of donations coming from elsewhere.

silverfeather

I accept no excuses. I am a lovely person ....but when it comes to animal abusers god help me i am one cruel bitch...and rightfully so. What you react to as a cruel bitch is part of what makes you lovely the other 90% of the time.

MathDebater

steddyeddy wrote: »

Could you link me to the veterinary tests that state as such and the zoologist reports saying he was endangering the species?

The only rhinos selected for the hunts are old ones that no longer breed and that pose a threat to younger rhinos.

http://news.yahoo.com/texas-hunter-shoots-endangered-namibian-rhino-350-000-000807061.html

For the price of five old male rhinos who are a threat to the younger members of the herd, in return, they get $1.75 million to fight against poachers and to preserve the 2,500 remaining rhinos.

steddyeddy

osarusan wrote: »

He could, but I guess he wanted his trophy in exchange for the money. Again I'd say that if Namibian conservationists could get people to donate this kind of money, they wouldn't run this kind of scheme in the first place.

That they have to run this kind of animal sacrifice/conservation effort is probably evidence of the lack of donations coming from elsewhere.

Wait is it Namibia or Namibian conservationists auctioning off the kill? Can you detail how much money one of the world's most corrupt governments gives back into conservation?

silverfeather

steddyeddy wrote: »

Wait is it Namibia or Namibian conservationists auctioning off the money? Can you detail how much money one of the world's most corrupt governments gives back into conservation?

That's the real crux.

steddyeddy

MathDebater wrote: »

http://news.yahoo.com/texas-hunter-shoots-endangered-namibian-rhino-350-000-000807061.html

For the price of five old male rhinos who are a threat to the younger members of the herd, in return, they get $1.75 million to fight against poachers and to preserve the 2,500 remaining rhinos.

The sentence you quoted is a sentence by the organisers of the hunt not a fact.

osarusan

steddyeddy wrote: »

Can you detail how much money one of the world's most corrupt governments gives back into conservation?

I have no idea. Do you?

As I already said, I would like to see some statistics on what this money has actually achieved in terms of conservation efforts.

pablomakaveli

MathDebater wrote: »

Keeping him in a zoo or reservation costs a lot of money. Bumping him off brings in money.

Whats so bad about keeping him in a zoo? People pay to see him and it raises awareness.

Letting some crazy yank shoot him, even if they get some money doesn't help their cause much and it doesn't show the people caring for these animals in a good light either.

MathDebater

steddyeddy wrote: »

The sentence you quoted is a sentence by the organisers of the hunt not a fact.

The Nambian government have issued just five hunting permits for the black rhino(@ $350k a pop). They are not lashing them out and I see no reason to suspect that the statement is untrue.

silverfeather

Old guy stops young guy getting laid. So shoot him???

steddyeddy

osarusan wrote: »

I have no idea. Do you?

As I already said, I would like to see some statistics on what this money has actually achieved in terms of conservation efforts.

What this guy's money has achieved? I would like to see some proof it was spent on protecting the rhinos (it didn't because one's dead) and the effect of killing the older male.

There's not much literature suggesting older males of a species result in a species going extinct but I'm open to suggestion?

I think the fact that a man shoots an endangered animal for money sends a bad message to poachers who shoot endangered animals for money.

Do you think tourism brings in more money in total than trophy hunting?

steddyeddy

MathDebater wrote: »

The Nambian government have issued just five hunting permits for the black rhino(@ $350k a pop). They are not lashing them out and I see no reason to suspect that the statement is untrue.

The Namibian government get paid 350k and justify getting 350k in shock news!

MathDebater

pablomakaveli wrote: »

Whats so bad about keeping him in a zoo? People pay to see him and it raises awareness.

Letting some crazy yank shoot him, even if they get some money doesn't help their cause much and it doesn't show the people caring for these animals in a good light either.

If the old infertile lad went nuts and took a few younger fertile lads out nobody would be any wiser about the black rhinos plight and the members of the herd able to reproduce would be down. Now the worlds media is relaying the story and the conservations have an extra $350k to help fund their efforts.

Putting him in a zoo would cost money and people can already pay to see the herd.

YFlyer

MathDebater wrote: »

The rhino in question couldn't and was a threat to those that were.

You're saying he had no horn?

steddyeddy

Quick check reveals Namibia brings in 7 billion to the country's domestic gross profit. 350K to save an endangered species doesn't seem quite right.

MathDebater

silverfeather wrote: »

He could have donated the money.

Eh, so could you!

osarusan

steddyeddy wrote: »

What this guy's money has achieved? I would like to see some proof it was spent on protecting the rhinos (it didn't because one's dead) and the effect of killing the older male.

?

I would like to know this too. But neither of us know.

How much of the money spent on the license actually went towards conservation efforts?
What did those conservation efforts achieve?
Was there another way to achieve similar conservation efforts without having to sacrifice one animal to a hunter willing to pay a lot of money?
Does Safari tourism bring in more money than this regulated hunting, and where does the money go?

Loads of questions we can't answer.

steddyeddy

osarusan wrote: »

I would like to know this too. But neither of us know.

How much of the money spent on the license actually went towards conservation efforts?
What did those conservation efforts achieve?
Was there another way to achieve similar conservation efforts without having to sacrifice one animal to a hunter willing to pay a lot of money?
Does Safari tourism bring in more money than this regulated hunting, and where does the money go?

Loads of questions we can't answer.

Tourism brings in 7 billion a year. They don't need an extra 1.5 million for conservation.

osarusan

steddyeddy wrote: »

They don't need an extra 1.5 million for conservation.

How do you know this?
What evidence do you have to make that statement?

endacl

http://i.guim.co.uk/media/w-620/h--/q-95/5ee08ab5a77c5e96fdced42a834a9e9d8c300cef/0_0_4493_2855/1000.jpg

The last male northern white in the world. The rest were shot for sport, for greed, and for superstition.

YFlyer

silverfeather wrote: »

Old guy stops young guy getting laid. So shoot him???

For whipping his eye?

silverfeather

YFlyer wrote: »

For whipping his eye?

explain

steddyeddy

osarusan wrote: »

How do you know this?
What evidence do you have to make that statement?

A hunter shoots an endangered rhino and claims he is protecting the rhino and the money is going to conservation. I'm asking for proof that it is. I'm not seeing any. I'm supplying figures for the amount of money tourism alone brings into the country. Some people are claiming that the money is being used for conservation. I'm at a loss of evidence to suggest they need to make up their conservation budget via 1.5 in kill auctions.

Could I ask what's your stance on the issue?

steddyeddy

endacl wrote: »

http://i.guim.co.uk/media/w-620/h--/q-95/5ee08ab5a77c5e96fdced42a834a9e9d8c300cef/0_0_4493_2855/1000.jpg

The last male northern white in the world. The rest were shot for sport, for greed, and for superstition.

The same is happening here.

MathDebater

steddyeddy wrote: »

The same is happening here.

Haven't their numbers doubled recently?

steddyeddy

MathDebater wrote: »

Haven't their numbers doubled recently?

If that's true why was the hunter claiming he was saving the species?

osarusan

steddyeddy wrote: »

Could I ask what's your stance on the issue?

My stance is that anybody who shoots animals solely for sport deserves contempt.

Beyond that I don't know enough to make an informed comment.

It might be the case that this is purely Namibian government greed dressed up as conservationism, in which case I condemn it.

It might be the case that it is a genuine conservation scheme, and the money raised is money that otherwise would not be raised at all.

I don't know, and you don't either. But you seem to be annoyed that I am not sufficiently outraged in the way you would like.

It is late and I'm going to sleep but I'll leave this here:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/corey-knowlton-texas-hunter-sparks-outcry-by-paying-350000-to-hunt-and-kill-endangered-african-black-rhino-10267149.html

The Washington Post said that the International Union for the Conservation of Nature had said the concern over killing a rhinoceros for sport was understandable but that it was not the same as illegal poaching.

“Well-managed trophy hunting has little to do with poaching, and indeed can be a key tool to help combat it,” it said.

“Without it, African conservationists would not be able to employ the upwards of 3,000 field rangers employed to protect wildlife and enforce regulations.”