The streets of London are paved with cold.

Hagar7

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/poverty-forced-people-turn-food-5726219

In a church hall in one of South West London’s most affluent neighbourhoods, Peter Ward-Miller talks about his fuel bill.

He hasn’t used any hot water at his council home for two years. He washes in cold water, keeps the heating switched off and uses only the bare minimum of electricity.

He has a tiny hotel room kettle, and doesn’t turn the lights on.

“I’m always cold,” says the 53-year-old former garage worker. “Sometimes my hands and feet are so painful.

“I’m getting older and I’m not the biggest bloke you’ll meet.”

His neighbour lent him a fan heater for dire emergencies, but he doesn’t touch his gas at all. He tops the ­electricity up when he can. And when he can’t, he lives in darkness.

MOD - Tidied up the news dump
OP - Please express an opinion

silverfeather

To be cold or hungry is humbling. I think as humans we have the same body we should be able to empathize with people enough.

Everyone has been in pain. We all have to help each other.

The fuel bank is a great idea but it's scary it has come to that.

It is happening here too.

I hate the cold. I am small. This winter at least I am lucky.

FTA69

This is the reality of Tory Britain. The sixth richest country on earth and we have people who can't heat their homes as well as over half a million people relying on food banks. It's disgraceful really.

smurgen

Lived in London.hated it.it's a dump unless you're earning a very good wage.

MagicIRL

The OP is in full bolded lettering. In refuse to read it.

Cop on to yourself, OP.

stimpson

Normally I wouldn't care, but the fact that you've posted in bold adds a lot of weight to whatever point you are trying to make.

But it has to be said that I didn't read any of it.

The_Valeyard

FTA69 wrote: »

This is the reality of Tory Britain. The sixth richest country on earth and we have people who can't heat their homes as well as over half a million people relying on food banks. It's disgraceful really.

Labour or lib dems didn't do much to address this either.

Read an article recently that average income earners are more or less forced out of London because of rising rates and costs. London becoming a home for just the super rich?

Hagar7

MagicIRL wrote: »

The OP is in full bolded lettering. In refuse to read it.

Cop on to yourself, OP.

stimpson wrote: »

Normally I wouldn't care, but the fact that you've posted in bold adds a lot of weight to whatever point you are trying to make.

But it has to be said that I didn't read any of it.

My apologies to both of you.

The Diabolical Monocle

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MagicIRL

Hagar7 wrote: »

My apologies to both of you.

You're not sorry. I can tell from your lack of bold lettering.

Hagar7

silverfeather wrote: »

To be cold or hungry is humbling. I think as humans we have the same body we should be able to empathize with people enough.

Everyone has been in pain. We all have to help each other.

The fuel bank is a great idea but it's scary it has come to that.

It is happening here too.

I hate the cold. I am small. This winter at least I am lucky.

Sadly you are spot on,the problem nowadays is that many folk in London are having tae move out because of the cost of housing,£77 k is the starting price for young folk wishing tae buy a one bedroom flat.

Hagar7

MagicIRL wrote: »

You're not sorry. I can tell from your lack of bold lettering.

:):) have a nice day.

end of the road

Hagar7 wrote: »

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/poverty-forced-people-turn-food-5726219

In a church hall in one of South West London’s most affluent neighbourhoods, Peter Ward-Miller talks about his fuel bill. He hasn’t used any hot water at his council home for two years. He washes in cold water, keeps the heating switched off and uses only the bare minimum of electricity. He has a tiny hotel room kettle, and doesn’t turn the lights on. “I’m always cold,” says the 53-year-old former garage worker. “Sometimes my hands and feet are so painful. “I’m getting older and I’m not the biggest bloke you’ll meet.” His neighbour lent him a fan heater for dire emergencies, but he doesn’t touch his gas at all. He tops the ­electricity up when he can. And when he can’t, he lives in darkness. The church hall is operating as a fuelbank. So, when Peter leaves the church an hour later, he does so with a voucher for £49 which he can use to top up his gas card or electricity meter.

this is what you get when you have paracitic leaching cartels screwing people for everything they can. competition my hole. of course we all know who is responsible for this in the first place.

end of the road

smurgen wrote: »

Lived in London.hated it.it's a dump unless you're earning a very good wage.

its the city of the rich and cronies. the poor and the real londoners are slowly being eradicated from their city.

Shenshen

Well, maybe if they stopped wasting all that money on weird paving stones....

NotASheeple

smurgen wrote: »

Lived in London.hated it.it's a dump unless you're earning a very good wage.

If you think London is a dump, you better give Dublin a miss.

Hagar7

end of the road wrote: »

its the city of the rich and cronies. the poor and the real londoners are slowly being eradicated from their city.

Absolutely spot on.

AndonHandon

Russian money laundering and corrupt financial services industry has created a frightening bubble around London. Ideally the UK will have their referendum on EU membership, leave, then expose London for the corrupt, soulless place it is.

mad muffin

London is now for the rich Russians and Gulf state oil types. Driving around in their ridiculous Bugatti Veyrons and Lamborghinis that can barely fit in the narrow London streets.

BoJack Horseman

Solutions?

Cold War Kid

Part of the problem though is the irresponsible rubbish peddled by the red-top media of "If you can't pay your heating bill you'll get disconnected!"
This is simply not true, but vulnerable people believe it, especially elderly people, and are thus afraid of their lives to use heating or to contact the company to help them out.

If you cannot pay your bill on time, the company will set up a payment agreement for you once you contact them. Disconnection only happens due to non payment of several bills, and there is loads of warning.
PAYG might be an option too.

The Backwards Man

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Solutions?

Ranting and raving on the internet will solve all of the world's ills, it seems.

London is the same as every other capital city in the world, when it gets too expensive to stay there, you move out. Sentimental bullcrap ain't worth dying over.

The_Valeyard

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Solutions?

People's revolution?

BoJack Horseman

The Backwards Man wrote: »

London is the same as every other capital city in the world, when it gets too expensive to stay there, you move out. Sentimental bullcrap ain't worth dying over.

True dat.

Kingston-upon-Thames is one of the wealthiest parts of London.
Colour me unsurprised if someone on the dole struggles to maintain a good quality of life there.

An obvious solution would be more money for social services, however UK people seem little inclined to ask for the tax rise.

BoJack Horseman

The_Valeyard wrote: »

People's revolution?

Sigh.... another!

The last one petered out in Russell Brand's kitchen!

Hagar7

AndonHandon wrote: »

Russian money laundering and corrupt financial services industry has created a frightening bubble around London. Ideally the UK will have their referendum on EU membership, leave, then expose London for the corrupt, soulless place it is.

As far as I'm aware of,Scotland,Wales and N.I.are in favour of staying in the E.U.
England as far as I know is still undecided but I reckon they'll stay in.

Mint Aero

T'rific city albeit not a place for the poor. No harm though, it's nice being able to walk through a city without a dirty scumbag in sight for miles.

porsche959

AndonHandon wrote: »

Russian money laundering and corrupt financial services industry has created a frightening bubble around London. Ideally the UK will have their referendum on EU membership, leave, then expose London for the corrupt, soulless place it is.

It does seem that the UK economy has become imbalanced to an unsustainable degree.

end of the road

Cold War Kid wrote: »

Part of the problem though is the irresponsible rubbish peddled by the red-top media of "If you can't pay your heating bill you'll get disconnected!"
This is simply not true, but vulnerable people believe it, especially elderly people, and are thus afraid of their lives to use heating or to contact the company to help them out.

If you cannot pay your bill on time, the company will set up a payment agreement for you once you contact them. Disconnection only happens due to non payment of several bills, and there is loads of warning.
PAYG might be an option too.

while thats how it should be, unfortunately in terms of the UK its not always the case.

The_Valeyard

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Sigh.... another!

The last one petered out in Russell Brand's kitchen!

Yeah, but know a real one, with flags, dramatic music, an evil overlord, something Hollywood can cash in on in later years.

end of the road

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Ranting and raving on the internet will solve all of the world's ills, it seems.

London is the same as every other capital city in the world, when it gets too expensive to stay there, you move out. Sentimental bullcrap ain't worth dying over.

it is . real londoners are having their city stolen from them by greed and paraciticnesss

end of the road

Mint Aero wrote: »

T'rific city albeit not a place for the poor. No harm though, it's nice being able to walk through a city without a dirty scumbag in sight for miles.

they are there. hiding in the under belly, waiting

Junkyard Tom

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Solutions?

Here's one, Tina.

http://www.positivemoney.org/

silverfeather

Cold War Kid wrote: »

Part of the problem though is the irresponsible rubbish peddled by the red-top media of "If you can't pay your heating bill you'll get disconnected!"
This is simply not true, but vulnerable people believe it, especially elderly people, and are thus afraid of their lives to use heating or to contact the company to help them out.

If you cannot pay your bill on time, the company will set up a payment agreement for you once you contact them. Disconnection only happens due to non payment of several bills, and there is loads of warning.
PAYG might be an option too.

Level headed thinking.

You are the voice of reason that is needed.


I think we jump to thinking 'what if that was me? Or my grandmother etc' We have easy heartstrings to pluck at. But there is a lot of truth to the imbalance people are feeling to. Maybe not to the emergency measures that are implied.

Something does need to be for fuel security for people who are vulnerable though.

end of the road

Shenshen wrote: »

Well, maybe if they stopped wasting all that money on weird paving stones....

well, certain councils could consider spending their money more wisely instead of on cheep tacky nonsense that costs a fortune

silverfeather

end of the road wrote: »

they are there. hiding in the under belly, waiting

I'll get me coat. I know when I'm not wanted .:mad: :-P

4zn76tysfajdxp

Hagar7 wrote: »

“I’m not the biggest bloke you’ll meet.”

Ah, that happens to every man when they're cold.

BoJack Horseman

Junkyard Cat wrote: »

http://www.positivemoney.org/

Nah, 1989 happened.
Communism failed.
We're over it.

Capt'n Midnight

Cold War Kid wrote: »

If you cannot pay your bill on time, the company will set up a payment agreement for you once you contact them. Disconnection only happens due to non payment of several bills, and there is loads of warning.
PAYG might be an option too.

Pre pay meters are NOT an option. They cost significantly more AND you get disconnected automatically when you run out of credit.

Really only an option if you can't manage finances , like where someone in the household steals and/or has an addiction problem and you should be trying to sort out that rather than get a pre-pay meter.

Junkyard Tom

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Nah, 1989 happened.
Communism failed.
We're over it.

How predictable that you reflexively dismiss a possible solution when presented with one and then stupidly to try to label it as 'communism'. When you asked the question 'solutions' what you meant to say was 'there is no alternative'.

Don't ask for solutions if you don't want an answer that might, you know, actually be a solution, Tina.

BoJack Horseman

Junkyard Cat wrote: »

How predictable that you reflexively dismiss a possible solution when presented with one and then stupidly to try to label it as 'communism'.

Then don't link to a site whose first sentence is: 'Money is evil'.

Pie-in-the-sky has a proven track record of helping no one.

KomradeBishop

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Nah, 1989 happened.
Communism failed.
We're over it.

Tip: When you see a poster dismiss something as 'Communism', in an attempt at scaremongering by association (in almost all cases there is no actual association with Communism), that is because they know a real and valid solution is being presented, and they want to immediately shut-down discussion of it before the idea takes hold, because it fundamentally disagrees with their political views.

Cold War Kid

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Pre pay meters are NOT an option. They cost significantly more AND you get disconnected automatically when you run out of credit.

Really only an option if you can't manage finances , like where someone in the household steals and/or has an addiction problem and you should be trying to sort out that rather than get a pre-pay meter.

Yeah true. There's no bill though, which makes them attractive, but I guess people can still make pre-payments even when they receive bills. Worth doing - small bill by the time it comes around.

Junkyard Tom

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Then don't link to a site whose first sentence is: 'Money is evil'.

Lies. Money is pretty much essential - it's how it is being issued and for what it is being used that can be 'good or evil' (I'm not a fan of using biblical terminology myself).

Pie-in-the-sky has a proven track record of helping no one.

If you'd even bothered having a cursory look at the site you will see where it provides real world examples of sovereign money being issued/used.

Don't pretend you want to be presented with any alternatives to how things are currently run - just accept that you're deeply conservative and frightened of change.

jackofalltrades

Junkyard Cat wrote: »

If you'd even bothered having a cursory look at the site you will see where it provides real world examples of sovereign money being issued/used.

You'd get a better reception for your solution if you described it in your own words, detailing the pros and (more importantly) the cons.

Most links that people put up with no description turn out to be junk.

Junkyard Tom

jackofalltrades wrote: »

You'd get a better reception for your solution

It's not my solution - it's one possible solution.

if you described it in your own words, detailing the pros and (more importantly) the cons.

There are succinct explanations only a mouse click or two away from the original link.

Listen, it gets boring reading people shouting down alternatives not because they have a substantive critique but because they don't want to hear them. I mean ffs the possible alternative linked to was almost immediately decried as 'communism' as per above.

KomradeBishop

Ya and it's not like the alternatives haven't been exhaustively discussed for years already either. The main common denominator in those discussions, is the attempts at shouting down any alternatives, and filling discussions of them with so much bile/FUD (like the Communism scaremongering) that it drives other posters away - which is why any economic discussions that touch on alternatives, often get all nasty and condescending within a short space of time.

Iwasfrozen

Posting a link with no explanation is pointless. There's nothing to discuss.

Mongfinder General

KomradeBishop wrote: »

Tip: When you see a poster dismiss something as 'Communism', in an attempt at scaremongering by association (in almost all cases there is no actual association with Communism), that is because they know a real and valid solution is being presented, and they want to immediately shut-down discussion of it before the idea takes hold, because it fundamentally disagrees with their political views.

More like fundamentally threatens their cosy existence as an indo reading, ff/fg voting, middle class, Volvo driving, €65k a year middle management waster

Massimo Cassagrande

end of the road wrote: »

it is . real londoners are having their city stolen from them by greed and paraciticnesss

Oh ffs, give over. London was always expensive to live in. My parents both worked and had good wages, and they struggled to keep a one bedroom flat rented - that was back in the 1960's. Property is expensive there because lots of people want to live there.

If someone made poor financial choices in their life and now struggles to afford to live in an expensive capital city, there you go. It was ever thus. "Having it stolen by greed and paraciticness" me hole. It was always greedy and parasitic - people usually are, London isn't an exception or unusual. It's human nature - if lots of people want something, it gets pricier. Simple as.

KomradeBishop

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Posting a link with no explanation is pointless. There's nothing to discuss.

Bollocks - with the amount of time people spent whining about the link, they could have clicked it and read it with barely any effort.
It's just willful ignorance on behalf of posters, where they are trying to safely redirect discussion away from solutions - by whining about how those solutions were presented.

Of course that is to be expected from certain posters though, e.g. who have openly stated that they want to see the political/economic 'status quo' remain in place.

We know such posters are only ever interested in making an act of being 'unconvinced' by every solution presented to them, in order to keep things exactly as they are - and only engage in these debates, to try and dissuade anybody from discussing solutions, and to pour doubt on solutions.